ftp.xmission.com/2014.06.ftp.xmission.com.tar/ftp.xmission.com/pub/lists/zorn-list/archive/v03.n062

Internet Message Format | 2000-09-20 | 21KB

From: [e-mail] (Zorn List Digest)
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #62
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: [e-mail]
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: bulk


Zorn List Digest     Thursday, September 21 2000     Volume 03 : Number 062



In this issue:
-
       Re: Dave Douglas/Misha Mengelberg 4tet @ Iridium
       Re: Modernism, Dada, Surrealism (PostModernIsm?)
       Re: Wittgenstein
       all of these little things
       REVIEW: Archie Shepp/Roswell Rudd, NYC 9/20/00 (long)
       Re: all of these things
       burroughs (was: all of these little things)
       more about zorn, literature & music
       Re: more about zorn, literature & music
       Re: Modernism, Dada, Surrealism (PostModernIsm?)
       Re: REVIEW: Archie Shepp/Roswell Rudd, NYC 9/20/00 (long)
       Re: REVIEW: Archie Shepp/Roswell Rudd, NYC 9/20/00 (long)
       Re: burroughs (was: all of these little things)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 18:03:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Dave Douglas/Misha Mengelberg 4tet @ Iridium

Yes, Dan:

But this was probably your first time seeing Han.
After the second, third, fourth, fifth... time it gets
a tiring to have to sit through Han's schtick.

Now, before the flames start, I'll say that I consider
Han a great drummer who has done some exceptional work
on his own, with the ICP, with Brotzmann etc. etc.

I'll add that I appreciate humor in music. But
Bennink's antics have gone beyond jokes to cheap
burlesque.

Since his tricks have figured in so many of his
reviews, he now seems to think he has to "perform"
every time he plays.

All the seemingly spontaneous actions described below
are part of the standard Han show.

It's gotten so that I now describe Bennink as one of
those rare drummers who should be heard and not seen.

As well, I've watched Han drown out other soloists
when he gets into his "show" -- even Misha.

Interesting enough, earlier in the month when Han,
Misha and Michael Moore played in a sextet at the
Guelph Jazz Festival with George Lewis, Joseph Jarman
and Leroy Jenkins, not only was he playing relatively
quietly, but the schtick was nowhere in evidence.

I guess he realized he couldn't screw around with
AACMers who, being tough enough to survive in the
music business for 30 years plus, weren't going to
accept a European minstrel show while they played.

Ken Waxman


- --- Dan Hewins <[e-mail]> wrote:

.  Han is quite a character.  He is
> one of the craziest drummers I have witnessed.
> Before the second
> tune he donned a bandanna as a headband which
> likened him to a ninja
> of sorts.  His physical movements and facial
> expressions were
> hilarious and his playing was superb.  He had his
> feet up on the
> drums at times.  He saw a coat hanger hanging from a
> wire and took it
> down and made like it was flying like an airplane
> until it hit a
> cymbal and he tossed it behind him.  He once made a
> moustache for
> himself out of the brushes.

_______________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 09:10:06 +1100
From: "Lee, Edgar" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Modernism, Dada, Surrealism (PostModernIsm?)

I'd also like to recommend Calvin Tomkins book on Robert Rauschenberg. It is
one of the most humourous art books I've read, especially the story of how
when Rauschenberg first went to New York he got off at Newark instead when
he misheard the conductor, and it took him 3 days to realise. Later when he
went back home he found out that his parents had moved towns without telling
him.

NP Annie Gosfield - Burnt Ivory and Loose Wires

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 00:21:45 +0200
From: [e-mail] (Chris Genzel)
Subject: Re: Wittgenstein

>> "When I came home I expected a surprise
>> and there was no surprise for me,
>> so, of course, I was surprised." -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
>
> Where did you get this great quote?! A friend of mine is considering
> doing his thesis on the connection between Wittgenstein and
> Nietzsche, something about language and morality...?!?! I can't
> pretend to understand _Wittgenstein_ that much, but if you have
> any suggestions for sources of Wittgensteinian info, my friend could
> pass on his gratitude through me to you, or something...

 The quote is from Wittgenstein's VERMISCHTE BEMERKUNGEN--I don't
 know the title of the English translation, I'd translate it to
 "Miscellaneous Comments". It contains numerous notes, comments and
 thoughts by Wittgenstein which were released posthumously.
 The interesting thing is that, although Wittgenstein is an Austrian
 philosopher, the above quote was written in English.

 There's a webpage on Wittgenstein:
   http://www.nobunaga.demon.co.uk/htm/witt.htm
 And here's one containing various papers on various philosophical
 topics, including some Wittgenstein:
   http://www.u.arizona.edu/~chalmers/people.html

 Kind regards,
 - Chris.
___________________________________________________________________

        ** Christian Genzel -- email: [e-mail] **
       ** Homepage at http://home.t-online.de/home/stamil **

 Discographies of Herbie Hancock, Bennie Maupin & Michael Beinhorn
                  The Herbie Hancock Mailing List
___________________________________________________________________

    "When I came home I expected a surprise
     and there was no surprise for me,
     so, of course, I was surprised."  --  Ludwig Wittgenstein

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 00:40:11 GMT
From: "William York" <[e-mail]>
Subject: all of these little things

> >the obvious WS Burroughs [influence] on Zorn
>
>okay, I have to admit, I've never read any Burroughs,
>although hearing of his various literary exploits
>makes me curious--so, you have to explain the obvious
>part to me...

I have started but never finished reading any of his books, but I'm sure the
connection would be the endlessly referred to "cut-up" method used in his
writing, where he would cut out passages and piece them back
(endlessly referred to when critics want to draw some cross-medium parallel
to music of Zappa, Zorn, etc.).

I probably shouldn't be answering b/c I don't know exactly what process
Burroughs used, BUT, if he did this as a random type of thing - just letting
it fly and seeing what comes out - then that to me wouldn't seem to have
much to do with something like "Spillane" or "Godard" or "Snagglepuss,"
because that stuff is arranged in a specific order, even if it sounds
disjointed or "cut-up."

Basically I agree with Patrice R. (even if this is a slightly different
point), that music/literature parallels are usually either very tenous or
thought up by someone else, hunting for something profound to say, after the
fact. On the  other hand, if a book inspires somebody to write something
good, then that's great too I suppose.

WY


_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 03:05:44 -0500
From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: REVIEW: Archie Shepp/Roswell Rudd, NYC 9/20/00 (long)

9:30 p.m.

Time was when Archie Shepp was the scariest muthafucka in jazz.  If
Trane was a Sufi mystic, Pharoah a Pentecostal speaker-in-tongues, and
Ayler an old-fashioned country preacher (with a splash of the Salvation
Army), then Shepp was something altogether more sinister: part Malcolm X
in his spiritual-but-angry polemics, part Elijah Muhammad in his
clear-eyed, patiently declaimed denunciation of a social order gone
awry.  But Shepp also had the sexiest tenor growl this side of Ben
Webster, making his radical agenda all the more enticing.

No more on either count, it seems... but don't count Shepp out just
yet.  As has been reported over and over again, things ain't what they
used to be.  Still, one might hold out hope for a reunion of Shepp with
one of his most potent and engaging collaborators of his glory days, the
seemingly born-again trombonist Roswell Rudd, who's on quite a streak of
late with his twisted showband Broad Strokes and his renewed
acquaintance with Steve Lacy just issued on Verve.  (Shepp and Rudd meet
once again at the Jazz Standard in New York City this week, in the
company of trombonist and fellow late '60s survivor Grachan Moncur III,
backed by the vintage avant-rhythm dream team of Reggie Workman and
Andrew Cyrille.)  And honestly, one would not be entirely disappointed.

"We're gonna start things off the same way we did in San Francisco back
in 1966," Rudd stated brightly in introducing "Keep Your Heart Right,"
the tune which did indeed open Shepp's 1966 album 'Live in San
Francisco.'  "Give me a little reverb in my mike," muttered Shepp.  And
on immediate evidence, this might have seemed to set the tone for the
entire set: Rudd bold, effusive, excitable; Shepp seemingly blurred and
rendered ghostly by the amplified echoes his requested reverb created.
At times, Shepp's sound was indeed lost within Rudd's - sometimes due to
similarity of timbre, but more often due to the trombonist simply
overpowering his partner.

And yes, let it be said here that Shepp's embouchure does indeed look
awkward and even painful, and his sound is thinner by far than the
trademark arrogant swagger for which we know him.  BUT.  Shepp's still
got ideas and, given some time to warm up, he can still execute them
much better than naysayers might have you believe.  While he couldn't
match Rudd's ebullience with windpower on the opener, when he moved to
piano he was more than merely comfortable; he was inspired, with angular
chord-voicings and an endearing clunkiness that could only call Monk to
mind.  The next tune, "Steam" (originally heard on the hotly-debated
Shepp LP 'Attica Blues'), was a gentle waltz dedicated to a cousin of
Shepp's gunned down in his youth.  The twin trombones of Rudd and Moncur
stated the melody in close harmony and unison, while Shepp tickled the
keys delightfully, quoting in his solo a snatch of Randy Weston's
"Hi-Fly" before singing (in a lovely, crooning baritone) a brief,
touching verse for his relative.

Rudd's "Pazuzu" was a feature for Cyrille's insistent jungle rhythms (in
the old Ducal sense of the term).  Shepp uncorked a long, serpentine
tenor solo that proved his instincts - and even his chops, to a large
extent - intact, even if his mighty bray has been muted by the passage
of time.  Rudd followed with a bumptuous solo full of blasting and
braying, even quoting "Battle of Jericho."  Moncur's solo, by
comparison, seemed tentative, rather like he was playing Morse code.

Shepp and Rudd continued with a touching piano and trombone duet on
"Change of Season" by Herbie Nichols, Rudd noting that Shepp was reading
from a newly-printed book of previously unpublished Nichols
compositions.  The closer, Shepp's "U-Jamaa" (a Kwaanza-inspired tune
written for his daughter, originally featured on 'Montreux '75, Vol.
1'), featured another long and roiling tenor solo by Shepp, who moved
back to piano to accompany Rudd, but kept his horn at hand to offer
commentaries on Moncur's and Cyrille's solos.  He also took another
pithy piano solo, a snatch of "Softly as in a Morning Sunrise"
skittering by.  Rudd was clearly getting off on the proceedings, and
Cyrille's dramatic momentum drove the whole thing through to its
conclusion.

Yeah, so I was perhaps born about 25 years too late to have heard Archie
Shepp at his prime.  (And perhaps you could say that about all five of
the artists I heard in this set, though I'd certainly argue the point
hotly.)  Still, on this night, in this setting, Shepp was well more than
a shade of himself in his prime, and often acquitted himself with the
depth that only a mature artist can.  Moncur sounded tentative all
night, it can fairly be said, but the rhythm section was brilliant, both
together and singularly, with Workman proving again and again that he
was perhaps technically the finest musician on the stage.  And Rudd...
well, Rudd is playing like he's got his whole life to live all over
again and one hell of a fire in his belly, and more's the benefit to
those of us who didn't hear him first time 'round.

My first time to hear Shepp live, and I don't feel slighted in the
least.  Go figure.  And now, off to Iridium for the second set of Dave
Douglas with Misha Mengelberg, Brad Jones and Han Bennink...

(Shepp and Rudd are at the Jazz Standard through Sunday, Sept. 24, if
you're in the neighborhood.  And they're worth hearing.)

Steve Smith
[e-mail]
NP - Archie Shepp, "Prelude to a Kiss," 'Fire Music' (Impulse)


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 10:08:00 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Steve Berman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: all of these things

>>>>> "Sigmund" == Sigmund Nonanima <[e-mail]> writes:

    Sigmund> "sergio luque" <[e-mail]> wrote (that I
    Sigmund> wrote, etc.):

    >> escribio con gran aplomo:

    Sigmund> what does aplomo mean?

aplomb

    Sigmund> (My Spanish is also a little English.)

Indeed!
- --Steve Berman

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 10:42:22 +0200
From: patRice <[e-mail]>
Subject: burroughs (was: all of these little things)

hi there...

i must admit that i also found it a bit hard reading through some burroughs
stuff; e.g. naked lunch and the western lands.

on the other hand, some of hise earlier works - e.g. queer / junky - i found
were quite easy to read.

if anyone reading this is interested in finding out about the process behind
burroughs' writing, i can recommend the re/search publications book in which he
was featured. (bryon gysin and throbbing gristle are in it, too.)

patRice

np: fields of the nephilim, bbc radio 1 live
nr: w. van gulik, irezumi


William York wrote:

> I have started but never finished reading any of his books, but I'm sure the
>
> I probably shouldn't be answering b/c I don't know exactly what process
> Burroughs used,


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 11:51:15 +0200
From: Geert Buelens <[e-mail]>
Subject: more about zorn, literature & music

Apart from the (obvious) links with 'historical avant-garde' movements
(dada etc) Zorn is also interested in current avant-garde literature such
as the L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E poetry movement. One of the most prominent poets is
Lyn Hejinian. She also co-edited Zorn's *Arcana*-book and if I remember
correctly, Zorn used one of her texts for his projects. Was that for the
New Traditions-Cd? And was it taken from her book *My Life*?
thanks

geert


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 06:35:03 -0400
From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: more about zorn, literature & music

At 11:51 AM 9/21/00 +0200, Geert Buelens wrote:
>
>Lyn Hejinian. She also co-edited Zorn's *Arcana*-book and if I remember
>correctly, Zorn used one of her texts for his projects. Was that for the
>New Traditions-Cd? And was it taken from her book *My Life*?

She is credited with the texts for Que Tran on the New Traditions album,
but the web site says it was an 'original text', which I take to mean
written expressly for this project and not previously published.  The album
doesn't mention any previous publication either.


- --
Caleb Deupree
[e-mail]

Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance
like nobody's watching.

- -- Satchel Paige

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 13:31:08 +0100
From: Nuno Barreiro <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Modernism, Dada, Surrealism (PostModernIsm?)

Just two words on Dada and music.

I had the chance to attend a workshop by Misha
Mengelberg this summer (during the Lisbon jazz
festival). At one point he refered to the main reasons
that attracted him to jazz music (in the 50's).

Essentially he saw in jazz a way of moving from
the rigid structure of classical music to something
with more freedom. His father was a music critic
and he would often go to concerts with him (he
already lived in Amsterdam). In the intermission
of a concert by the Duke Ellington big band, the
Duke himself started to play something on the piano
which was in the hall of the concert room. The band
joined him, member by member, and soon they were
all playing in the hall... This was amazing for a student
of classical music in the 50's: total freedom.

He also refered to the two main sources of inspiration
in his approach to music (breaking the structure in
many ways): Eric Dolphy and Dadaism.

Since Dadaism and Misha Mengelberg have both been
recently mentionned in this list I thought I might just had
my two cents by relating the two...

Best,

Nuno Barreiro




- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 11:29:22 -0400
From: "Michael Berman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: REVIEW: Archie Shepp/Roswell Rudd, NYC 9/20/00 (long)

> Time was when Archie Shepp was the scariest muthafucka in jazz. =20

Wow. great review.  I hope it was published somewhere, it deserves to =
be.  I haven't seen Archie for a long while (and I'm too young to have =
seen his prime too).  But when I did it was in Philly.  Do you know if =
he still teaches there?  I'm not sure it was Temple, I think it was a =
smaller music college.  Does Shepp have any new recordings out?  Will =
this band put something out?

Shepp has long been a hero of mine, but the past decade (or longer) he's =
really only put out standards (to my knowledge).  This is a good sign he =
might be back to play, or at least claim he hasn't faded off.

mb




- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 08:51:13 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: REVIEW: Archie Shepp/Roswell Rudd, NYC 9/20/00 (long)

On Thu, 21 Sep 2000 03:05:44 -0500  Steve Smith wrote:
>
> 9:30 p.m.
>
> Time was when Archie Shepp was the scariest muthafucka in jazz.  If
> Trane was a Sufi mystic, Pharoah a Pentecostal speaker-in-tongues, and
> Ayler an old-fashioned country preacher (with a splash of the Salvation
> Army), then Shepp was something altogether more sinister: part Malcolm X
> in his spiritual-but-angry polemics, part Elijah Muhammad in his
> clear-eyed, patiently declaimed denunciation of a social order gone
> awry.  But Shepp also had the sexiest tenor growl this side of Ben
> Webster, making his radical agenda all the more enticing.

Thanks a lot Steve for the fantastic review! For a few minutes you almost gave
me the feeling that I was there.

    Patrice (never tired of BLASE, MAGIC OF JU-JU, etc).

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 11:24:33 -0500
From: Matthew Ross Davis <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: burroughs (was: all of these little things)

On Thu, Sep 21, 2000, patRice <[e-mail]> wrote:
>i must admit that i also found it a bit hard reading through some burroughs
>stuff; e.g. naked lunch and the western lands.
>
>on the other hand, some of hise earlier works - e.g. queer / junky - i found
>were quite easy to read.

Uh...Naked Lunch *is* an earlier work. :) 1959.

>if anyone reading this is interested in finding out about the process behind
>burroughs' writing, i can recommend the re/search publications book in which
>he was featured. (bryon gysin and throbbing gristle are in it, too.)

Yes, I find the cut-up extremely similar to Zorn's own jump-cut method of
constructing stuff. It's certainly good good reading for anyone
interested in the early days of de/reconstructionist art. :)

(NP: js bach, musical offering)

| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | m - a - t - t - h - e - w | r - o - s - s | d - a - v - i - s | |
| | http://www.artswire.org/mrd | | | | http://www.mp3.com/craque | |
| | http://www.metatronpress.com  | | http://www.mp3.com/graycode | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |


- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V3 #62
******************************


 To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to
       "[e-mail]"
 with
       "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest"
 in the body of the message.

 For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send
 "help" to the same address.  Do not use quotes in your message.

 A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
 subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest"
 in the commands above with "zorn-list".

 Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in
 pub/lists/zorn-list/archive.  These are organized by date.

 Problems? Email the list owner at [e-mail]