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Zorn List Digest      Monday, September 18 2000      Volume 03 : Number 058



In this issue:
-
       Re: varΦse (NO ZORN CONTENT)
       RE: Brotzmann(s)
       Re: Bungle/FNM
       Reply now to join the threadgillthread group
       Boris Vian
       Patton / Peter Epstein
       Re: Boris Vian
       Re: naked city pics
       Re: Disney/Duke
       Downtown Music web site
       Re: Boris Vian
       JumpArts Music and Dance 9/23 Brecht Forum
       Re: new jim black release on W&W
       Re: Web project
       Re[2]: Web project
       Re: new jim black release on W&W
       Wadada Leo Smith and Bennie Maupin solo

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 21:32:19 +0200
From: patRice <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: varΦse (NO ZORN CONTENT)

hi there.

we did discuss about the var=E8se double cd release on decca a while ago.=
=20

and i can wholeheartedly second marcin's recommendation.=20

if you're not familiar with var=E8se's works, you might be surprised just
how much zappa's classical output was inspired by it!

yours,
patRice



[e-mail] wrote:
>=20
> sorry i can't help, but can anyone tell me where to start getting into
> var=E8se???  which cd i should start with a such.  i've been a zappa fr=
eak for
> quite some time and have always thought about a Varese purchase.  any h=
elp
> would be appreciated.
>=20
> -

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 15:42:08 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Benjamin Pequet)
Subject: RE: Brotzmann(s)

At 14:49 17/09/00 -0400, [e-mail] wrote:
>spectrum is his record with his son Caspar.  While I tremendously admire each
>of them SEPARATELY, I had a very hard time listening to this CD--the one time
>I tried.

Are you referring to Last Home ? (PATHOLOGICAL, 1990)




- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 22:53:40 +0200
From: Andreas Mohr <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bungle/FNM

> Well, Trey Spruance is the guitarist on King for a
> Day... (an album I hated for a year or so until
> recently, and now it's right up there with Angel Dust
> for me), so that might explain some stylistic
> similarities *there*, but I'm not sure about the other
> stuff

ok. Trey played guitar on that record, but he hardly wasn┤t involved in
the writing process, except for some tunes and ┤spicing up some chords┤.
he just did, what any guitarist in FNM had to do: filling in.
nevertheless KFADFFAL is beyond all doubt FNMs most guitar-orientated
record.
in mr bungle trey┤s part is a lot more dominant. he is responsible for a
lot of songs and even for some lyrics, he also plays keyboards and uses
samplers and maybe he is the secret chief in bungle..
so again, i really can┤t see any similarities between KFAD and mr
bungle, except for Patton┤s screaming sometimes.

> But the Shostakovich sample in Malpractice from Angel
> Dust (and the chanting in Smaller) does bring to mind
> some of the more exotic moments of Bungle's
> California...

i definately agree on that. Malprctice is maybe the most bunglesque
song, FNM ever did, and not just because of the sample..

> Anyway, to me it seems like no one gave a shit about
> Faith No More (and I mean the band members) after King
> for a Day--I'm thinking of Album of the Year, which
> seems, at times, forced and uninspired

maybe i don┤t get your point here, but i wouldn┤t say that AOTY is
uninspired. in comparison to other big mainstream-bands - FNM was much
bigger here in europe than in the states - AOTY was definately an album
of the year (as far as the music goes), but maybe it┤s a bit too
pathetic and wise?

i read an interview with Puffy (drums) right after they split, where he
said FNM would have had to make one more record to become a really big
band..
imho, mr bungle is immortal just for Disco Volante!

andi

- --
Wir tanzen alle Boogie - nur nicht mit dem selben Rhythmus
 - Sue Anne -

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 19:17:16 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Reply now to join the threadgillthread group

Hello -- Got this message about a new henry threadgill discussion group. Sign-up
details are below, if you're interested.

kg
_______________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Reply now to join the threadgillthread group
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Date:    13.09.2000  21:10 Uhr


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- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 10:03:14 +0930
From: "Michael Vandelaar" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Boris Vian

A great book by Vian is "Froth on the Daydream" which has a great reference
to Duke Ellington in the intro/preface. I can't check it as my copy is in
storage. Anyone????
There is a good Vian site at http://www.toadshow.com.au/rob/vian/vian.htm
which also refers to his Vernon Sullivan books.

Cheers,
Michael


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 00:33:00 GMT
From: "William York" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Patton / Peter Epstein

>i see that you are very experienced, and i have not very much to add,
>but maybe someone is really interested in Pattons music right now. i┤m
>sure there are ppl with more background on the topic (hello William
>Dork?), but here are my 2 cents:

Arrgghhh!!! I know you didn't mean anything personal by this, but that's
William York, not William Dork!!! At least I hope so.

As for Mr. Bungle and Faith No More, I think they are two completely
different bands whose biggest thing in commmon is that they have the same
singer, who also writes/wrote about a third (?) of the music for each
band...

Also, I finally got around to getting one of those Peter Epstein quartet CD,
"The Invisible." I can't remember which got the highest recommendation but
this has some really great parts. Like just about everything with Jim Black
he sort of defines the sound, with those odd-time backbeat rhythms. But
Epstein is excellent too, he has sort of a Coltrane-like tone, but doesn't
play the sort of licks that would otherwise bring him to mind. I'd say if
you like anything from the Dave Douglas/Jim Black/Chris Speed corner of the
jazz world this is worth looking into, but at the same time it doesn't feel
like "more of the same" at all.

Anyway enough rambling,

Will York

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- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 17:38:27 -0700
From: Tosh <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Boris Vian

on 9/17/00 5:33 PM, Michael Vandelaar at [e-mail] wrote:

> A great book by Vian is "Froth on the Daydream" which has a great referen=
ce
> to Duke Ellington in the intro/preface. I can't check it as my copy is in
> storage. Anyone????
> There is a good Vian site at http://www.toadshow.com.au/rob/vian/vian.htm
> which also refers to his Vernon Sullivan books.
>=20
> Cheers,
> Michael
>=20
>=20
> -
>=20
>=20
Hi,

I will be publishing L'=E9cume des jours in a brand new English translation b=
y
Brian Harper. This translation has full backing from the Vian estate.  The
TamTam Books version will be based on the new edition (with notes) that was
published in France a couple of years ago.  The new English edition is
called "Foam of the Daze."


ciao,



- --=20
Tosh Berman
TamTam Books
http://www.tamtambooks.com


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 21:14:12 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: naked city pics

does anyone out there have any pictures of naked city playing live?
or does anyone know what guitars/amps/effects bill frisell used when with the
band?

any help is appreciated
thanx in advance

Robb

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 13:20:17 +1000
From: "Julian" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Disney/Duke

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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I'm curious to maybe check out some sound samples, is the Duke cd still =
available?

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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm curious to maybe =
check out=20
some sound samples, is the Duke cd still available?</FONT></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_008B_01C02173.2FF95940--


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 02:26:32 -0400
From: Peter Gannushkin <[e-mail]>
Subject: Downtown Music web site

Hello All,

  So I started the site about downtown music. It contains only the
  information I had on my home page (pictures, forum, diary in
  Russian) but it was redesigned and it has its own domain now:
  http://www.downtownmusic.net/. More changes are on the way. I think
  first of all I will start a collection of the links to other
  resources in the net.

  Any help and ideas are appreciated. Let us try to build something
  really interesting and useful.

Best regards,
Peter Gannushkin
e-mail: [e-mail]
URL: http://www.downtownmusic.net/



- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 16:06:53 +0200
From: "dekater" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Boris Vian

- -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Michael Vandelaar <[e-mail]>
Aan: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Datum: maandag 18 september 2000 2:32
Onderwerp: Boris Vian


>A great book by Vian is "Froth on the Daydream" which has a great reference
>to Duke Ellington in the intro/preface. I can't check it as my copy is in
>storage. Anyone????
>There is a good Vian site at http://www.toadshow.com.au/rob/vian/vian.htm


"Froth..." is the English translation for 'L'ecume des jours'. In the intro
there's a reference to Duke Ellington. I try to translate: "There are only
two things: making love in every way with pretty girls, and the music of New
Orleans or Duke Ellington. The rest should disappear, because it's ugly..."
Vian was an enthousiastic trumpetplayer and wrote a lot of jazz reviews,
very witty and open minded.

Jan Luyben


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 12:12:30 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: JumpArts Music and Dance 9/23 Brecht Forum

*****************
JumpArts presents

WORKS IN PROGRESS
An evening of forward reaching dance and music

Saturday September 23rd at 8pm
The Brecht Forum at 122 West 27th Street, 10th floor
$8

Featuring:
Lina Maria Jiminez
Steve Swell
Jennifer Kjos
Ashley Searles
Marija Krtolica
Andrew Bemkey
Luciana Achugar
Ryan Sawyer
Stuart Boogie
and many more?

Log on to http://JumpArts.org





- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 11:46:45 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: new jim black release on W&W

On Fri, 15 Sep 2000 22:21:44 EDT  [e-mail] wrote:
>
> As for the "recipe" assessment, I am reminded of something Mose Allison said
> in the mid sixties, when an interviewer posed that question about his own
> work:
>
> "That same accusation gets levelled at Thelonious Monk all the time.  It's
> the pitfall of having your own style."

There is in my mind a significant difference. In the case that you raise,
people reproached Monk of being Monk (or Zorn for being Zorn within Masada,
since somebody else mentioned the plethora of Masada records). The case that
I raised (Uri Caine) was, I thought, of a different kind. Since Uri Caine
borrows heavily in these projects (Mahler, Schumann, Wagner, Bach), and that
his relative success is for one part based on the quality of the music that he
borrows, and for the other due to his "classical for dummies" treatment of the
classics (Hey kids! U gotta dig that Bach dude, he kicks ass when played on
the B3).

I think that Caine managed pretty well to not fall in the ridicule associated
to modern relectures of classics (I am talking of the relectures from the
"outside", some remembers John Lord, ELP?) with most of these projects but,
IMHO, he failed with the GOLDBERG VARIATIONS one. There is as much subtlety
in that one as in an issue of the Reader Digest. But what a slick project to
make the whole family happy the days TV is off!

Sorry, but I see more shrewdness in the GOLDBERG VARIATIONS than talent, but
I could be wrong (won't be the first time).

    Patrice.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 21:39:36 +0200
From: patRice <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Web project

hello peter

i think this project of yours is very interesting, and would definitely
be helpful for quite some people.

having experience as a webmaster yourself, you probably know just how
important it is to make up a good concept. don't you think it would
first be necessary to talk about this? or do you already have very clear
ideas?

i mean, like the "what cds to start with" section e.g.: would there ever
be a way of even just the people on this list agreeing on a particular
order? or would you offer the possibility to vote for individual cds, so
it'd be sort of democratic?

most important thing, obviously, would be a search engine that lets you
find stuff by artist, but also names of albums and/or song/track titles.
then, i guess, there could be a section for reviews of individual
albums, and one for a "what cds to start with" section. to make it
easier for people to know just who's list to follow, it might be helpful
if there were little portraits of each contributor?

anyways: shall we take this off the zorn-list? or do people feel we
should discuss it on the list? (what's mighty rizzi's opinion?)

patRice

np: napalm death, complete bbc sessions
nr: david r. weinberg, kuniyoshi - the faithful samurai

Peter Gannushkin wrote:
>
> Hello All,
>
>   I had the idea to make a project dedicated to the music we like for
>   a long time. We all know how hard is to find information about our
>   favorite music in the net.
>
>   The web server I want to start is about all this stuff. Many of us
>   have different sources of information and want to share it with
>   others. We are talking to musicians, writing reviews, taking
>   interviews, making pictures and much more. What I want to do is to
>   collect this information in one place and let other people know what
>   we know.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 15:58:53 -0400
From: Peter Gannushkin <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re[2]: Web project

Hello patRice,

Monday, September 18, 2000, you wrote to me:

p> having experience as a webmaster yourself, you probably know just how
p> important it is to make up a good concept. don't you think it would
p> first be necessary to talk about this? or do you already have very clear
p> ideas?

I think during the first phase it will be just a resource with several
parts like: cd reviews, artist biographies, label catalogs, links and
so on. I also plan to add the possibility to discuss any article on
the server. The discussion forum is already started.

[other questions deleted just to prevent over quoting]

The section for beginners with CDs recommendations and some styles
explanations I think can be organized as personal columns of
contributors. I mean if you or somebody else will decide to write for
example new listeners Tim Berne FAQ it will be placed on server as a
special section and it could be possible to add information to it.

Also I think that there is no certain opinions what CD to start with
so the best way is to post reviews and organize discussion there.

p> anyways: shall we take this off the zorn-list? or do people feel we
p> should discuss it on the list? (what's mighty rizzi's opinion?)

Hope it is ok to discuss it here. Though I'm going to start the list
about Downtown Music web site as soon as it will become necessary.

- --
Best regards,
Peter Gannushkin
e-mail: [e-mail]
URL: http://www.downtownmusic.net/



- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 16:24:48 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: new jim black release on W&W

In a message dated 9/18/00 2:48:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< Sorry, but I see more shrewdness in the GOLDBERG VARIATIONS than talent,
but
 I could be wrong (won't be the first time).

    Patrice. >>


Huh.  I think GOLDBERG is packed with great performances and oddles of
"variation."  On the other hand, I found LOVE FUGUE to be pretty weak.  Of
all the interpretations Caine's pursued, LF is by far the least successful to
my ears.  Give me PRIMAL LIGHT or WAGNER anyday.  GOLDBERG is a close third.
My favorite W&W Caine release is SIDEWALKS OF NEW YORK.

Just my $.02,
Tom

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 17:18:16 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Wadada Leo Smith and Bennie Maupin solo

I had the pleasure of seeing Smith and Maupin each play a solo performance
this weekend in Los Angeles, as part of the monthly Inner Ear experimental
concert series.  About 50 people showed up to see these 2 masters.

Smith (whose new 'Golden Quartet' album on Tzadik I picked up at the show)
came on about 30 minutes too late after getting lost on his way to the space
(he wasn't the only one...).  He played trumpet, another horn which I
couldn't identify (not a flugelhorn, but  longer than a trumpet), and the
mbira (thumb-piano from Zimbabwe).  I'd never seen a trumpeter play as he
does--with the trumpet almost perpendicular to the floor.  His use of
space/silence was interesting.  His brief performance was impressive, but
somewhat uninspired.  I'm waiting to see him with a band in a few weeks at
the Knit.

Maupin (ex-Miles Davis and Headhunters) was really impressive and seemed to
be much more into his performance than Smith.  He switched back and forth
between bass clarinet, soprano sax, and tenor sax--all both straight and
synthesized (which certainly was interesting to hear).  I felt he really
stretched out on more the soprano and tenor, which was surprising given his
fame as a bass clarinetist--actually, I was much more impressed with David
Murray's bass clarinet playing only a few nights previous.  Anyway, his
performance was really captivating--especially with the synthesized
reeds--and he seemed to really be enjoying himself.  Just after he got a
rousing oviation, he hopped over to the piano and played a fully-improvised
piece (a la Jarrett).  A great performance overall.  Maupin spoke briefly at
the end of his performance about how the space, the monthly series, and the
performance reminded him of the loft jazz scene in NYC in the '70s,
(paraphrasing) "except that we'd go for 72 hours straight, rest for a few
days, and then play another 72 hours."  He said his solo performance in front
of an audience was a "first" and seemed really excited to have done it.
Maupin's an under-appreciated L.A.-based musician who plays far too
infrequently.  I hope the Knit books him soon.

Smith and Maupin played an all-too brief improvisational duo at the end of
the night.  Smith finally seemed to be warmed up and was really blowing hard.
 Too bad the space had to close down.  A nice night of music.

jeff caltabiano
n.p. vandermark/drake/mcbride: spaceways incorporated, thirteen cosmic
standards by sun ra & funkadelic' (2000, atavistic)

- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V3 #58
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