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Zorn List Digest      Friday, September 15 2000      Volume 03 : Number 054



In this issue:
-
       threadtime
       threadtime
       Re: threadtime
       RE: Charlemagne Palestine recs
       Re: Charlemagne Palestine recs
       Re: Charlemagne Palestine recs
       Re: Charlemagne Palestine recs
       Ignaz Schick/Perlon
       Influences
       Re: Influences
       FS: Phantom City, Paul =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Sch=FCtze?= (non-Zorn)
       Re: Influences
       Re: brotzmann
       Re: brotzmann
       Re: Charlemagne Palestine recs
       brotzmann
       =?iso-8859-1?Q?var=E8se?= (NO ZORN CONTENT)
       =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20var=E8se=20(NO=20ZORN=20CONTENT)?=
       Re: brotzmann
       =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20var=E8se=20(NO=20ZORN=20CONTENT)?=
       =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20var=E8se=20(NO=20ZORN=20CONTENT)?=

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 10:40:19 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: threadtime

peter -- good of you to give them the benefit of the doubt, but chalk this up to
typical knit. foetus are playing at 11 on friday. after i questioned the timing
confusion (only thing i could be sure of was the set wouldn't start at 10,
probably), they took back my ticket, scribbled out the time with a ballpoint pen
and wrote '9' in place.

good thing i asked. i would have preferred 11, but at least i've got a better
chance at being there the same time as the band.


ksc> newspaper ads and flyers list the friday night set at 8 pm. the web and
knotes
ksc> say 9. but i bought an advance ticket and it said 11.

I'm pretty sure that you just bought the ticket for the second set
which suppose to start at 11.

They almost always have two sets mostly at 9 and 11.



- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 10:41:42 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: threadtime

oh, and by the way, looks like the line-ups changed. a guitarist is listed in
the voice instead of the oud. alas...

kg

np: uri caine - wagner e venezia



- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 10:53:13 -0400
From: Peter Gannushkin <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: threadtime

Hello kurt,

Thursday, September 14, 2000, you wrote to me:


ksc> peter -- good of you to give them the benefit of the doubt, but chalk this up to
ksc> typical knit. foetus are playing at 11 on friday.

They are messed up as always. When I sent the last message both 9 and
11 o'clock shows were listed as ZOOID. Now there is Foetus at 11
and ZOOID at 8(!).

- --
Best regards,
Peter Gannushkin
e-mail: [e-mail]
URL: http://www.shkin.com/downtown/



- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 10:01:23 -0500
From: "John Thomas" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Charlemagne Palestine recs

> From: [e-mail]:
>anyone in NYC with nothing to do tomorrow evening should go check out the
>Charlemagne Palestine show at the Sonnabend (sp?) gallery on 536 W. 22nd
St.,
>starting around 8:30. admission is free. [snip]

Can someone recommend some recordings by Charlemagne Palestine?
I've always meant to get some but didn't know where to start.

Thanks
John



- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 12:03:50 -0400
From: "Jesse Kudler" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Charlemagne Palestine recs

I have "Strumming Music" and "Shlingen-Blangen"(not positive that's the
right spelling on the second one), and I like them both.  They're pretty
different, with Strumming Music being an improv-based piece for grand piano.
The sustain pedal is held down the whole time while Palestine hammers on the
keys to bring out really dense overtones.  Comparable to Lamonte's
"Well-Tuned Piano."  Shlingen-Blangen is for organ, and he basically tapes
down the keys while manipulating the organ stops.  So you get these slowly
shifting resonances and overtones over the course of 70-ish minutes.  Nice,
but more demanding in that it's only interesting if you can listen to it all
in one sitting.

- -Jesse

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "John Thomas" <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2000 11:01 AM
Subject: RE: Charlemagne Palestine recs


> > From: [e-mail]:
> >anyone in NYC with nothing to do tomorrow evening should go check out the
> >Charlemagne Palestine show at the Sonnabend (sp?) gallery on 536 W. 22nd
> St.,
> >starting around 8:30. admission is free. [snip]
>
> Can someone recommend some recordings by Charlemagne Palestine?
> I've always meant to get some but didn't know where to start.
>
> Thanks
> John
>
>
>
> -
>
>


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 15:08:12 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Charlemagne Palestine recs

In a message dated 9/14/00 11:12:36 AM, [e-mail] writes:

<< Can someone recommend some recordings by Charlemagne Palestine?
I've always meant to get some but didn't know where to start. >>

my favorite is Four Manifestations On Six Elements (Barooni). not sure if
it's in print or not. Strumming Music, as Jesse mentioned, is also very good.

definitely avoid the recent double CD on Durtro, Karenina. it's a solo
recording of his falsetto voice and harmonium. I found it unlistenable, and
sold it two weeks after I bought it, something I virtually never do.

Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 14:40:15 -0400
From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Charlemagne Palestine recs

On Thu, Sep 14, 2000 at 03:08:12PM -0400, [e-mail] wrote:
>
> definitely avoid the recent double CD on Durtro, Karenina. it's a solo
> recording of his falsetto voice and harmonium. I found it unlistenable, and
> sold it two weeks after I bought it, something I virtually never do.

I've kinda enjoyed it, in small doses. But it's definitely a
listen-before-you-buy item.

One that I like a lot is "Jamaica Heinekens In Brooklyn". It's a recording
of a street fair in Brooklyn, overlaid with dense drones. You wouldn't
think that that would work, but it does quite nicely, for a vibrantly
dreamy atmosphere.

- --
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| [e-mail]           http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Jerusaklyn                  http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music    Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 15:35:04 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Ignaz Schick/Perlon

when I was at the Musique Action festival in France a few months ago, I was=20
browsing the Metamkine stand when Phil Durrant pointed me to a CD which he=20
said that I absolutely had to check out. it's called Perlon, and it's the=20
trio of Ignaz Schick on electronics, Jorg Maria Zeger on guitars, and=20
Burkhard Beins on percussion, none of whom I'd ever heard before.=20
nevertheless, I bought it, not expecting much, and it's one of the best=20
things I've heard this year. completely original and unique approaches by th=
e=20
three, especially Schick and Beins. two pieces, 72 minutes.

I didn't mention it here until now, because there was almost no way to get=20
them in the US (Ignaz burns them himself, they're CD-Rs). Anomalous carries=20
them now also, I believe. but I've traded him for a handful of them, and I'm=
=20
happy to sell some to interested zorn-listers. I only want to send them to=20
people in the US, since I don't have that many copies. in Europe, you can=20
order them directly through Ignaz (www.zangimusic.de), and in the rest of th=
e=20
world, you're on your own, sorry.

anyway, they're $11 apiece, which includes a dollar for postage. e-mail me=20
privately if you're interested.

anyone in or near Berlin should check out what looks to be a superb festival=
=20
from 9/28-30 run by Schick, full listing under Festival f=FCr Andere Musik o=
n=20
his site.


Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 22:07:47 -0400
From: "&c." <[e-mail]>
Subject: Influences

Upon listening to both Mr. Bungle and Faith No More a little more seriously,
I've found that there are striking similarities between two.  So, which band
influenced which? It could have been Patton using his same ideas in both
bands.  I'm a tad curious.

Also, another bizarre similarity I saw was in the beginning of a Sex Mob
song on Solid Sender (I think it's track 6).  The beginning sounds almost
identical to that of The Who's "Magic Bus."  Does any one know if this is
intentional or does Stephen Bernstien have similar musical ideas to Pete
Townshend.

I'd most appreciative if I could get some input. Thanks

Zach

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 17:56:46 -0700
From: "Joeseph Simon" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Influences

On the Real Thing...Pattons first with Faith No More, the music was already
created before Patton came in.  His job at the time was just to add vocals.
As for the rest, I have no idea.  I think a lot of Secret Chiefs sounds like
Bungle and its a Pattonless project...

Joeseph

- ----- Original Message -----
From: &c. <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2000 7:07 PM
Subject: Influences


> Upon listening to both Mr. Bungle and Faith No More a little more
seriously,
> I've found that there are striking similarities between two.  So, which
band
> influenced which? It could have been Patton using his same ideas in both
> bands.  I'm a tad curious.
>
> Also, another bizarre similarity I saw was in the beginning of a Sex Mob
> song on Solid Sender (I think it's track 6).  The beginning sounds almost
> identical to that of The Who's "Magic Bus."  Does any one know if this is
> intentional or does Stephen Bernstien have similar musical ideas to Pete
> Townshend.
>
> I'd most appreciative if I could get some input. Thanks
>
> Zach
>
> -
>
>


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 18:15:07 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Patrick Carey)
Subject: FS: Phantom City, Paul =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Sch=FCtze?= (non-Zorn)

I have the following items for sale that
some on this list may be interested in.

All prices _US $_.  POSTAGE PAID within North America.
Shipping on orders outside NA can be arranged.

If you don't like a price, make me an OFFER.

$15 -- Cop Shoot Cop - "Consumer Revolt" UK CD (Big Cat) 1992
$20 -- Paul Sch=FCtze - "New Maps Of Hell" US CD (Extreme: xcd015) 1992
       [First pressing on Extreme w/ original artwork.  Feat. "A Soul
       Reports" not on the 1996 UK reissue.  Long out of print.]
$20 -- Phantom City - "Shiva Recoil (Live Unlive)" UK CD (Virgin) 1997
       [Bloody excellent 55 minutes feat. Laswell (bass), Sch=FCtze (ke=
ys
       & tapes), Kondo (trumpet/electronics), Buess (bass clarinet),
       Bj=F6rkenheim (guitar), and Wachtelaer (drums).  Recorded at the
       Tampere Jazz Happening, Pakkahuone, Finland, 11/3/96.]

other items at:
[ http://www.astro.utoronto.ca/~carey/sofa/muse.html ]

Thanks for looking.


- -Patrick
[e-mail]






- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 18:28:47 -0500
From: Matt Urban <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Influences

Wednesday, September 13, 2000, 9:07:47 PM, &c. wrote:
...
> Also, another bizarre similarity I saw was in the beginning of a Sex Mob
> song on Solid Sender (I think it's track 6).  The beginning sounds almost
> identical to that of The Who's "Magic Bus."  Does any one know if this is
> intentional or does Stephen Bernstien have similar musical ideas to Pete
> Townshend.

Although I must admit I've never heard the Sex Mob track, based on the
"Magic Bus" reference, I gotta think there's a Bo Diddley influence
at root.

Matt



- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 16:24:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ryan Novak <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: brotzmann

>I consider myself an open minded music-listener, and
i
>have diverse tastes,
>ideas, etc., but for some reason Brotzmann just
>confuses me.  I don't like
>the incessant screeching...it just seems relentless
>and more annoying than
>creative.
>maybe one of the Zornlist gurus could correct me if i

>am vastly misinformed...

Hi,

While I'm not at all the guru you're seeking, I am
quite fond of Brotzmann's work.  I think the key to
enjoying his stuff is a real appreciation for raging
intensity.  Some of it is off-putting- I haven't
really gotten into Nipples much- but when the
cacophony is leading to something, or when it has been
lead into is when he's at his best I think.  Seeing
his Tentet play was a revelation for me, and I
understood the recordings much better after it.  It's
also probably important to listen to him at fairly
high volume too (especially Machine Gun and the larger
groups), so you can pick out the daisies in the
shrieking.  Headphones work great for me.  It's really
not all undefined honking and thrashing, at least to
my ears.

- ---Ryan


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 20:03:13 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: brotzmann

I'm not much of a fan of Br=F6tzmann, live or on record (with the notable=20
exception of the Tentet Victo show), but I vastly prefer the double CD on FM=
P=20
from 1971 with Van Hove, Bennink and Mangelsdorff to the better known record=
s=20
from the sixties. I've always wanted to hear Schwarzwaldfahrt, a FMP LP duo=20
with Br=F6tzmann and Bennink, recorded outdoors in 1977 in the Black Forest,=
=20
but it hasn't been reissued yet. anyone heard this?

I'm a big fan, however, of the seventies work of Albert Mangelsdorff. the=20
Three Originals double CD (MPS/Polydor Germany), which compiles three=20
mid-seventies records with different rhythm sections, The Wide Point,=20
Trilogue and Live At Montreaux. the range that Mangelsdorff shows on his=20
trombone here pretty much has to be heard to be believed.=20

Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 19:11:22 -0500
From: Jim Flannery <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Charlemagne Palestine recs

Joseph Zitt wrote:
>
> On Thu, Sep 14, 2000 at 03:08:12PM -0400, [e-mail] wrote:
> > definitely avoid the recent double CD on Durtro, Karenina. it's a solo
> > recording of his falsetto voice and harmonium. I found it
> > unlistenable, and sold it two weeks after I bought it, something I
> > virtually never do.
> I've kinda enjoyed it, in small doses. But it's definitely a
> listen-before-you-buy item.

And just to be argumentative ... I've played it, straight thru, a bunch
of times; I find my response curve to it is roughly similar to the one
Michael Snow's _La Region Centrale_ engenders: about 15 minutes of "ok,
is this it?" followed by an hour of "jesus, this really is just it"
ending up with "please sir may I have some more?". I find myself really
moved by the last fifteen minutes; it's actually made me cry.

YMM, as they say, V.

(And no, I have no interest in any bridges, thank you.)

I do agree, _Manifestations_ and _Strumming Music_ are good picks, and
possibly more approachable introductions.

- --
Jim Flannery

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 22:27:43 -0500
From: "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>
Subject: brotzmann

while by no means a rabid brotz-hound myself, i find the seventies vinyl
issue of ALARM to be some of not only his, but schlippenbach's best playing
as well. of course, the great frank wright being on it sold me the record
in the first place---
pcl



- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 09:52:22 +0200
From: patRice <[e-mail]>
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?var=E8se?= (NO ZORN CONTENT)

hi y'all!

i'm sure some of you have read a book (or even more) about edgard
var=E8se.

i remember reading (i think it was in the biography written by fernand
ouellette) that var=E8se had started experimenting quite early with recor=
d
players/turntables that allowed the user to adjust the speed of the
record.

however, i can't remember around what year he started working on that.

anyone on the list maybe got a better memory?

your help would be much appreciated!

yours,
patRice


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 06:34:22 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20var=E8se=20(NO=20ZORN=20CONTENT)?=

Hi Pat,

I've only read about Varese in Zappa interviews and books, and my sketchy=20
memory tells me that Varese composed and recorded sporadically from the 1920=
s=20
to the 1950s. =20

I'm sure others on this list know more about him.

Best,
Tom

In a message dated 9/15/00 3:54:31 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [e-mail]=
=20
writes:

<< hi y'all!
=20
 i'm sure some of you have read a book (or even more) about edgard
 var=E8se.
=20
 i remember reading (i think it was in the biography written by fernand
 ouellette) that var=E8se had started experimenting quite early with record
 players/turntables that allowed the user to adjust the speed of the
 record.
=20
 however, i can't remember around what year he started working on that.
=20
 anyone on the list maybe got a better memory?
=20
 your help would be much appreciated!
=20
 yours,
 patRice >>


________________________________________________
The dignity of art appears to the greatest advantage
perhaps in music, because that art contains no material
to be deducted. It is wholly form and intrinsic value,
and it elevates and ennobles everything which it expresses.

               --Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 14:13:23 CEST
From: "Andreas Dietz" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: brotzmann

>From: [e-mail]
>
>I'm not much of a fan of Br÷tzmann, live or on record (with the notable
>exception of the Tentet Victo show), but I vastly prefer the double CD on
>FMP
>from 1971 with Van Hove, Bennink and Mangelsdorff to the better known
>records
>from the sixties. I've always wanted to hear Schwarzwaldfahrt, a FMP LP duo
>with Br÷tzmann and Bennink, recorded outdoors in 1977 in the Black Forest,
>but it hasn't been reissued yet. anyone heard this?

it┤s a nice record. you hear birds singing, water splashing and some music
by Brotzmann and Bennink on miscellaneous instruments - a little bit unusual
sound, if memory serves. I haven┤t heard it for years, but this could be an
occasion to do so...

Andreas
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 10:18:00 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20var=E8se=20(NO=20ZORN=20CONTENT)?=

sorry i can't help, but can anyone tell me where to start getting into=20
var=E8se???  which cd i should start with a such.  i've been a zappa freak f=
or=20
quite some time and have always thought about a Varese purchase.  any help=20
would be appreciated.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 10:49:20 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20var=E8se=20(NO=20ZORN=20CONTENT)?=

In a message dated 9/15/00 10:19:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time,=20
[e-mail] writes:

<< sorry i can't help, but can anyone tell me where to start getting into=20
 var=E8se???  which cd i should start with a such.  i've been a zappa freak=20=
for=20
 quite some time and have always thought about a Varese purchase.  any help=20
 would be appreciated. >>


You can buy the complete works -- a 2CD set -- for about $30.

Tom

- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V3 #54
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