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2000-08-30
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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #38
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Thursday, August 31 2000 Volume 03 : Number 038
In this issue:
-
Re: Odp: question
oxy morons
Re: question
Re: question
Re: Odp: question
Re: Upcoming W&W releases
Re: question
Odp: oxy morons
Re: Upcoming W&W releases
ornette/roulette
Re: Upcoming W&W releases
Re: Upcoming W&W releases
Re: Upcoming W&W releases
cute message from Aldo, our favorite record owner
NYC show Friday: Dean Roberts/Haunted House at Tonic
Dave responds !!!
Re: question
Re: metal: black etc
Dead Reckoning
Re: Dead Reckoning
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 10:46:38 -0500
From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Odp: question
Marcin Gokieli wrote:
> PS As i have checked out, Steve Smith's info on the Frame by Frame is much
> more accurate. But I'm sure he'd agree as to Great Deceiver.
Yes, I would. But as for accuracy, I should correct one tiny detail - 'Frame
by Frame' covers 1969-1984, not 1969-1981. Gotta doublecheck before I hit
send, really...
Steve Smith
ssmith36@sprynet.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: 30 Aug 2000 15:04:23 -0000
From: "Tim Keenliside" <timkeen@disinfo.net>
Subject: oxy morons
Intelligent??? Metal??? Am I on the right mailing list???
Anyway, long live the Sabs!
_____________________________________________________________
Email your boss can't read - sign up for free disinfo.net email
at http://www.disinfo.com, your gateway to the underground
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 10:39:12 -0400
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>
Subject: Re: question
On Wed, Aug 30, 2000 at 12:08:26PM +0000, Bill Ashline wrote:
> Virgin Beauty is a nice low-key Prime Time outing. Tone Dialing is also
> quite good. Neither have the urgency of other Prime Time releases however.
> They're not very artsy, and you won't find the theory of harmolodics
> advancing far here. But who cares. They're both fun. I generally prefer
> "Of Human Feelings" and "In All Languages," which also has the quartet on
> one disk. I'm quite happy that this one became available again in the last
> couple years after Caravan of Dreams drifted away into the ethosphere.
This reminds me: is anyone alive at harmolodic.com? The pages don't seem
to have changed in months. Is the label still alive, or has it been
eaten in a merger or something?
The two CDs you mention are definitely my fave Prime Time CDs. Those
who want the CD of "In All Languages", though, should note that it's
a single disc, containing the contents of the two vinyl discs. And
AFAIK, "Of Human Feelings" only came out on CD in Japan. I found it
(for more than I wanted to pay) on eBay.
- --
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 15:59:04 GMT
From: "Bill Ashline" <bashline@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: question
- ----Original Message Follows----
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>
The two CDs you mention are definitely my fave Prime Time CDs. Those
who want the CD of "In All Languages", though, should note that it's
a single disc, containing the contents of the two vinyl discs. And
AFAIK, "Of Human Feelings" only came out on CD in Japan. I found it
(for more than I wanted to pay) on eBay.
- -
Yes, that's right Joseph. I actually own both the vinyl and the CD and had
forgotten that fact. And it's sad as well that "Of Human Feelings" remains
for me only on a somewhat scratched piece of vinyl. I'll keep my fingers
crossed that Harmolodic will return and issue it on CD.
NP: Steve Roach on mp3
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 12:14:37 EDT
From: Dgasque@aol.com
Subject: Re: Odp: question
In a message dated 8/30/00 3:12:01 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl writes:
<< What is REALLY interesting is another 4cd box, the great deceiver. It
consisists of 4 cds of live recordings form 72-73, Don't get bothered by the
fact that some songs are repeated; that music is quite widely improvised, and
the overall level is
incredible. >>
Nothing much to add other than a "thumbs up" from me too, on this set. I
bought it when it first came out around 5-6 years ago, IIRC. It has recently
been remastered/reissued, and supposedly sounds wonderful.
Marcin- does this reissue contain any new material at all?
- --
=dg=
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 11:18:56 -0500 (CDT)
From: Tom Benton <rancor@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: Re: Upcoming W&W releases
> Two new releases seem to be planned on Winter & Winter for early Autumn
>
> - "Alasnoaxis" by Jim Black (October 17th)
>
> This sounds really interesting to me.... but does any of you have
> further info on these future releases?
Alasnoaxis is Jim Black (drums), Chris Speed (reeds), Hillmar Jenson
(guitar), and Skuli Sverrison (elec bass). Some blurbs I've seen on the
web for their infrequent gigs include such curious descriptors as
"smallprov song chop" and "electronic hard crawl." The latter reminds
me of Jim gushing in an old Modern Drummer interview about Squarepusher
and a handful of other electronica programmers, so I'm guessing the
influence of that whole movement may rear its head with this band. Of
course, I really have no idea, but am nevertheless very excited about this
record - Jim is probably my favorite drummer (at the very least, favorite
young drummer) playing today and the Pachora and Human Feel records have
revealed him to be an clever composer as well. Anyone out there actually
heard this band? Steve? Matt?
And if the above image of downtowners attacking electronica sounds
interesting to you, Jamie Saft's 'Sovlanut' might very possibly be worth
your while: Saft (keys) , Chris Speed, Jim Black, and Groove Collective
bassist Jason Maron playing Jewish and Middle Eastern themes over a crazy
backdrop of live drum'n'bass and dub. Mmm mmm good.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 12:34:36 -0500
From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: question
Joseph Zitt wrote:
> This reminds me: is anyone alive at harmolodic.com? The pages don't seem
> to have changed in months. Is the label still alive, or has it been
> eaten in a merger or something?
They do seem to be rather slow, don't they? I'd expected that the label would
meet its end in the Universal/Polygram merger, but this seems not to have been
the case. There was talk on the Ornette list not so long ago about some new
releases pending, but I can't remember what they were. Anyone?
Harmolodic threw one hell of 70th birthday party for Ornette here in Manhattan.
Friends told me about it later... wish I could have been there. Patti Smith got
up and introduced Ornette, who then proceeded to play duets with Charlie Haden,
a trio with Charnett Moffett and Denardo, a duet with Joachim Kuhn, a quartet
with Dewey Redman, Charnett and (I think) Denardo, and an expanded Prime Time:
Badal Roy on tabla, Jamaaladeen Tacuma and Chris Walker on basses, Kenny Wessel,
Chris Rosenberg and Charlie Ellerbee on guitars, Dave Bryant on piano, Calvin
Weston on drums, Graham Haynes on cornet. The mind reels. Even Stanley Crouch
got up on stage and proclaimed Coleman a genius.
Steve Smith
ssmith36@sprynet.com
NP - Ornette Coleman & Joachim Kuhn, "Refills," 'Colors' (Harmolodic)
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 18:44:02 +0200
From: "Jerzy Matysiakiewicz" <jerzym@dom.zabrze.pl>
Subject: Odp: oxy morons
From: Tim Keenliside <timkeen@disinfo.net>
> Intelligent??? Metal??? Am I on the right mailing list???
> Anyway, long live the Sabs!
Yez. Satan rulez :)))
666
Jerzy
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 17:05:27 +0200
From: "Francesco Martinelli" <fmartinelli@tin.it>
Subject: Re: Upcoming W&W releases
> - "Winter Theme" by the Amsterdam String Trio (September 12th).
>
> ... Who is in the Amsterdam
> String Trio? Probably Ernst Reisjeger... but who else? Any comments on
> their music?
The Amsterdam String Trio is one of my favorite groups ever. Being a total
stranger to most of the music discussed there recently ( I saved some post
in amazement to the knowledge and information contained) I feel happy I can
contribute something. In addition to Ernst Reijseger, the other players are
Ernst Glerum - current bassist with Misha Mengelberg's ICP orchestra - and
Maurice Horsthuis, viola. The Trio has been "dormant" for years following
one of those breakdowns that happen between creative hardheaded people, but
its only two official records - one Lp and one Cd - are excellent examples
of integration between melody, composition, free improvisation and that
healthy dose of humour that seems a typical ingredient of Dutch jazz (see
Dutch Swing by K. Whitehead if you do not know it already). Horsthuis is a
beautiful composer, his orchestra Amsterdam Drama being for me inexplicably
not considered at the top of the European scene: think of a melodical flow
reminiscent of Schubert played through a modern (not pm) sensitivity. You
could say that these guys defined "chamber jazz" ten and more years ago. I
managed to slip this trio in a classical series of concerts here in Pisa,
reaching an all-time low attendance as the jazz people didn't come
(classical?) and the classical people didn't come either (who's the
Composer?). The 12 presents loved it though, and I regularly use its music
as an introduction to European Free Improvisation for classical musicians,
with great results. I think the AST was revived only 2 years ago, at the
Horthuis 50th Birthday Party at the Bim, and I look forward to have them
record and tour again regularly.
Finally, I want to mention that Zorn once played in a Dutch group lead by
Maarten Altena called from A(ltena) to Z(orn) - in fact some of the music in
Masada remind me often of early Dutch "chamber jazz" (Janssen, Altena,
Reijseger and such).
Still trying to figure out differences between death metal noise grind and
skronk...
Francesco
_________________
Francesco Martinelli
Lungarno Mediceo 10
56127 PISA ITALY
email: fmartinelli@tin.it
webpage: http://space.tin.it/musica/upsma/
fax 0039 050 313 75 02
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 11:05:17 -0500
From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com
Subject: ornette/roulette
no one's mentioned the one perk of 'virgin beauty' -- having in your collection
a track entitld "singing in the shower (with jerry garcia)".
also, nyers anyway, i just stumbled on the fall roulette sked, postd on the web
site (roulette.org). killer stuff. the best overall season they've had in some
years, methinks.
np: bradford reed - live at home
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 14:27:11 -0400
From: "Alan Lankin" <lankina@att.net>
Subject: Re: Upcoming W&W releases
Does W&W have a website or email address?
Alan
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 13:49:45 CDT
From: "Kristopher S. Handley" <thesubtlebody@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Upcoming W&W releases
>From: "Alan Lankin" <lankina@att.net>
>Does W&W have a website or email address?
The website has been:
http://www.winter-winter.njetwork.de
though as of late, there has been no response. What a waste!
- ----s
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 14:51:54 EDT
From: Jeffcalt@aol.com
Subject: Re: Upcoming W&W releases
lankina@att.net writes:
> Does W&W have a website or email address?
Not that I'm aware of (i asked this on another list months ago), a web search
gave me nothing, and it wasn't listed on the Independent Record labels page:
<http://www.shef.ac.uk/misc/rec/ps/efi/elabels.html>
There is, however, a list (in German, i think) of some of their recordings:
http://www.edel.de/sndtrack/winter.htm
jeff caltabiano
n.p. woody shaw: the iron men
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 12:05:10 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Subject: cute message from Aldo, our favorite record owner
Picked up on r.m.b.:
- ------- Forwarded Message
From: aldosinesio@my-deja.com
Newsgroups: rec.music.bluenote
Subject: Re: Upcoming Sun Ra and Alex Blake/Pharoah Sanders
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 17:58:43 GMT
I wish to inform you that within September I will put in sale my
private collection of the Lp's of HORO RECORDS. The Lp's are all
originates them, still in cellophane, prints in years '70. You will
find all the news c/o the website ones: aldosinesioeditore.it
Aldo Sinesio
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
- ------- End of Forwarded Message
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 17:11:35 EDT
From: JonAbbey2@aol.com
Subject: NYC show Friday: Dean Roberts/Haunted House at Tonic
sorry for the NYC-centric nature of this, but it was just added to Tonic's
schedule for this Friday, 9/1. the Wine Thieves actually consist of Dean, Tim
and Matt Valentine of Tower Recordings, although Alan Licht will indeed be
added for this show. they'll be performing songs, some from Dean's Ritornell
record, with Dean on vocals. this is their debut performance.
- -------------------------------------------------------------------
Dean Roberts & the Wine Thieves plus Haunted House
at 8:00pm, $8 Double Bill
Dean Roberts & the Wine Thieves : With Dean Roberts (guitar, electronics),
Tim Barnes (drums), & Alan Licht (vibes). New Zealand's Dean Roberts has been
running around with the Vienna powerbook crowd lately (check out his new CD
w/Werner Dafeldecker on Erstwhile), but tonight he hooks up with NYC amigos
Barnes and Licht to kick out the jams.
Haunted House : With Loren Mazzacane Connors (guitar), Suzanne Langille
(vocals), Andrew Burnes (guitar), & Neel Murgai (Persian daf). Loren
Mazzacane's desolate blues band returns to the Tonic stage for the first time
since the historic Mazza-thon last October.
- -------------------------------------------------
Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 06:37:33 +0200
From: rob.allaert@charity.nu
Subject: Dave responds !!!
Hi Rob,
Thanks for the email.
As you can probably imagine, I was asked this question a lot on my trip to
Argentina. Misha M. and I went to hear the quintet of Horacio Salgan, tango
pianist and composer. It was just fantastic -- interactive and dynamic and
beautiful. Even Misha liked it...
So, maybe some day. Piazzola's music is hard to touch because it's so
perfect and so many people have been covering it. Perhaps it would be
better covered by a metal band...
Happy listening,
Dave Douglas
> Hi Dave, Needless to say that it is my admiration which drives me
>to ask if you'll ever consider doing a Piazolla recording with, for
>example, the Charms group ? Rob Allaert, Belgium
http://www.frontstage.com/rob
"The goal is to bring the same intensity to listening
as the performer to playing". ________________________________________
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 21:10:36 -0400
From: "Peter Risser" <risser@cinci.rr.com>
Subject: Re: question
> > The Essential King Crimson 4cd box
> > (snip)
> >
> > And I've got a few King Crimson records, is the box a waste? >>
I know of two KC box sets. One is a collection of stuff from albums, with
some live stuff intersprinkled and the KC Barbershop Quartet, which is cute.
The other is a four CD of pure live stuff. I believe that all the live
stuff (like Doctor Diamond, which rules) from the first box is on the live
box. And, of course, Fripp being Fripp, he has probably since re-mastered
all THAT live stuff as well. In any case, the first set is a nice overview,
but if you've already got the stuff from 1969-1980's, you've got almost
everything on there. Alas.
Peter
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 20:24:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?A?= <Enfermo@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: metal: black etc
ate: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 23:02:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: Brandon Magee <cuz@world.std.com>
Subject: Re: metal: black etc
The other variation of metal I am starting to explore more is the
so-called Melodic Death Metal, which includes such bands as In Flames
and Dark Tranquility (and, if you expand beyond Gotherburg, should
include the Finnish band Children of Bodom). Anyone have any
thoughts?
- - -Brandon
Yes. It's not that good, mostly. Dark Tranquility has some nice
passages but the vocals ruin the whole thing... and I never really
liked In Flames or Children of Bodom that much...
Someone mentioned the great Austrian band Pungent Stench... well,
they broke up in 1996 I think and released a posthumous compilation
of rarities and such in 1998 called "Praise the Musical Assassins",
which is a MUST!!!
Viva la muerte,
A
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
http://mail.yahoo.com/
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 01:29:55 -0500
From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com>
Subject: Dead Reckoning
Dear Z-listers:
I'm sure there are dozens of more "appropriate" and logical sources to
which I could have turned with this request, but as yours are the voices
I've come to know and trust, I turn once more to you.
I've got an inexplicable urge to investigate the Grateful Dead, and I'd
like to know what recordings you recommend for getting started. As you
might expect, my own Dead collection at this point is minimal: John
Oswald's "Dark Star" pastiche 'Greyfolded' and the band's own improv
tapestry 'Infrared Roses,' plus one of the 'Dick's Picks' volumes
purchased this evening after hearing it over the weekend at a friend's
house.
I've heard that there are brilliant and innovative things in the band's
early output, and I also kinda like the low-intensity burn of the live
set I bought, though even I can tell that this is far from prime Dead -
Jerry just sounds ragged and the keyboards sound oh-so-'80s even though
it's a show from 1990.
And thus, I turn to you. As I can't really imagine much Zorn content in
such a discussion (certainly far less than in a discussion of metal),
private responses are more than welcome.
Steve Smith
ssmith36@sprynet.com
NP - Grateful Dead, "Morning Dew," 'Dick's Picks, Vol. 9' (Grateful
Dead)
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 23:28:34 -0700
From: Jim Flannery <newgrange@sfo.com>
Subject: Re: Dead Reckoning
Steve Smith wrote:
>=20
> I've heard that there are brilliant and innovative things in the band's
> early output, and I also kinda like the low-intensity burn of the live
> set I bought, though even I can tell that this is far from prime Dead -
> Jerry just sounds ragged and the keyboards sound oh-so-'80s even though
> it's a show from 1990.
The stuff that you really need to hear would basically be _Anthem of the =
Sun_,
the second album, which include some brief, fairly warped concr=E9te intr=
usions
and one of their feedback workouts, along with the original version of on=
e of
their concert staples ("The Other One") and a kazoo chorale; and _Live De=
ad_,
the fourth album, which pretty much defines what they did as improvisors =
on the
first two sides, and has a brilliant feedback section (called "Feedback")=
on
side 4 (I doubt I've willingly listened to the 15-minute "Turn On Your
Lovelight" on side 3 in the last 20 years, tho). I've never been very fon=
d of
_Aoxomoxoa_, the third album -- it just seems an unfocussed mess; after t=
hat,
they went directly to the Americana stuff that ruined 'em for me on _Work=
ingmans
Dead_ and _American Beauty_. The _Fillmore East 2/69_ set that came out a=
couple
years ago has some moments -- they were an opening act, so everything's r=
eally
concise & condensed, which some might say is a big plus in the Dead's cas=
e ;-)
... I haven't heard Dick's Pick #16 (Fillmore Aud. 11/69) but judging fro=
m the
track titles & timings (34 minutes of "Caution Do Not Stop On Tracks"/"Fe=
edback"
jam) my guess is that this would do you well if the recording quality's u=
p to
snuff.
Garcia's first solo album (the one on Warners with the fake Dali cover, *=
not*
the one on Round with the fake Peter Max cover) has some fairly outside
electronic stuff on it, aside from _Seastones_ probably the stuff that wo=
uld
seem most "experimental" to now-ears.
_Seastones_ is a duo album by Phil Lesh and Ned Lagin which was Phil's
opportunity to stand up & say "See, I *did* go to graduate school."
All-electronic and essential.
_Blues for Allah_ from 75 was something of a return to form -- the materi=
al that
takes up most of side one ("Help on the Way", "Franklin's Tower", etc.) p=
rovided
them with the foundation for some serious improvisation for a change (wri=
ting
material that was *appropriate* to jam on was a knack they'd sorta lost i=
n the
interim); the versions on the album are very good for a change, and they =
did
some great live shows during this period, none of which I think have made=
it to
Dick's Picks yet but if the Great American Music Hall or the Orpheum Thea=
tre or
the Cow Palace in '76, should turn up, any of those is likely to be prett=
y hot,
depending on which show of each run they pick; I haven't heard the Winter=
land
'77 one but I was there & I don't remember it being that great). Anyway, =
side
two of _Blues for Allah_ features some extended studio-as-instrument stuf=
f which
holds up well still (I just played it a week or so ago, it worked for me
anyway).
I don't really rate any of the 80s or 90s stuff at all ... the keyboard p=
layers
from those decades just plain bit, sorry.
- --=20
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim Flannery newgrange@sfo.com
"My hair has grown thin thinking of music."
-- I Wayan Lotring
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V3 #38
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