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Zorn List Digest        Friday, August 25 2000        Volume 03 : Number 026



In this issue:
-
       Re: morton feldman's GUSTON: versions
       Re: tzadik promos
       Orchester 33 1/3
       Masada Discs for sale
       Re: Tzadik /other labels
       [none]
       Re: DSP/ electronic references
       Re: Tzadik /other labels
       Re: genres (was Tzadik)
       Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 21:22:19 -0400
       Re: korean music - kim suk chul?
       Re: korean music - kim suk chul?
       labels and Erstwhile and Ritornell
       Re: genres (was Tzadik)
       Re: korean music - kim suk chul?
       Re: genres (was Tzadik)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 16:34:42 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: morton feldman's GUSTON: versions

Honestly, the California Ear Unit versions of Feldman pieces are actually
MORE accurate according to the score than the Hat Art ones by the people for
whom the pieces were actually written.  Sounds weird, but it's TRUE.  Figure
that one out.

- -matt mitchell, who prefers the Bridge version (and the New Albion version of
Why Patterns? that the Ear Unit does)

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 16:44:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ethan <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: tzadik promos

WXYC gets promos from Tzadik, although as I recall we had to bug them
about it for a while, and then suddenly we got a box of 15+ CDs from
them...  we had been getting them in the past mainly by buying them or
DJs' donations.

ethan



- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 14:47:09 -0600
From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki  (S) " <[e-mail]>
Subject: Orchester 33 1/3


>No one has recommended the Orchestra 33 1/3 album yet, so I'll jump in.
>It's quite varied, with some of the electronics that we expect from the
>label, plus some occasional straight ahead big band work.  I like the
>variety, even tolerating the occasional vocals because there is so much
>ground covered.

FWIW - The Orchester release on Charhizma didn't do much for me although
they do cover quite a bit of ground.  But I like their self titled release
on plag dich nicht.  I find with the charhizma release that I like what
they're doing one second and then don't like what they do the next.  With
the self titled release I find myself liking one *track* and then not liking
the next (I almost never listen to the Brotzmann led track).  The highs
points are higher and more frequent on the Plag Dich Nicht.  One of the
early tracks has a scattered break beat with a great guitar solo...plenty of
noises...i don't even know who plays it.

Matt Wirzbicki

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 13:58:30 PDT
From: "John Schuller" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Masada Discs for sale

I have all ten of the DIW Japanese Masada discs for sale on eBay right now.
All are in great shape. Reserve on each is $7.00.

my account name is schules

http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid=schules&sort=2&page=2&rows=25&since=-1

Thanks,
John
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 15:53:40 -0500
From: Moudry <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Tzadik /other labels

At 15:50 25-08-00 EDT, [e-mail] wrote:
>In a message dated 8/25/00 3:44:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>[e-mail] writes:
><< there's tons of one-man bedroom labels who are releasing, in my mind, much
> more radical music than Tzadik is. >>
>
>Such as?

AUM Fidelity (William Parker; Matthew Shipp; David S. Ware; Little Huey
Creative Music Orchestra; Joe Morris);
Eremite (Test; Sabir Matin; Alan Silva)
Wobbly Rail (Ken Vandermark; Steve Lacy; AALY Trio)
and the list could be continued to long lengths. Quite a few of them are
included in my label checklist project on Saturn Web:

<http://www.dpo.uab.edu/~moudry/discog/>

which, by the by, is FAR from a comprehensice list. Anyone with data on the
labels in the checklist, or labels that need to be added, please let me know.

Saturnally,
Joe Moudry

Web Master, Saturn Web
producer/host for Creative Improv & Classic Jazz, Alabama Public Radio

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 16:19:17 -0500
From: Herb Levy <[e-mail]>
Subject: [none]

  "Jesse Kudler" <[e-mail]> wrote:

I tend to view the series as
marketing because some records *really* seem squeezed into having identities
that they don't in order to fit say, the Radical Jewish Culture series.  I'm
not of the opinion that any Jewish person making music is partaking in
"Radical Jewish Culture."


Uh, as far as I can tell from the releases on Tzadik, neither does
Zorn.  Here's a partial list of nominally Jewish artists who have
released CDs in a Tzadik series other than Radical Jewish Culture:

Alvin Curran, Mark Dresser, Mark Feldman, Daniel Goode, Ned
Rothenberg, Elliott Sharp, and, of course, Zorn himself.

For that matter, not all releases by Japanese composer/performers are
in the new Japan series (consider the discs of music in the Composer
series by  Mamoru Fujieda, Ikue Mori, Yuji Takahashi, and Otomo
Yoshihide).

It seems pretty clear to me that Zorn has an idea of what belongs in
each series and isn't simply organizing these releases solely based
on the artists' ethnic background. The underlying concepts may not
always be clearly presented, but that's a separate issue.
- --
Herb Levy
P O Box 9369  Forth Wort, TX  76147
817  377-2983
[e-mail]

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 17:32:22 +0000
From: Rick Lopez <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: DSP/ electronic references

on 8/25/00 4:58 PM, Joseph Zitt at [e-mail] wrote:

> On Fri, Aug 25, 2000 at 08:26:41AM -0700, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:
>
>> Stockhausen's STUDY I is for sinusoids.
>
> Until I remembered what the word meant, my first thought was that
> sinusoids could make sneezing quite painful :-)

If you ever post a message like this to the group again,
I'll be forced to have you removed...

;-)
RL
- --
Marilyn CRISPELL, Susie IBARRA, William PARKER, Sam RIVERS, Matthew SHIPP,
David S. WARE, and Reggie WORKMAN Discographies-- Samuel Beckett Eulogy
- --Baseball & the 10,000 Things --Time Stops --LOVETORN --HARD BOIL --etc.,
at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k

UPDATE *June 25*, 2000:
vids, a few CDs, baseball books, a few Cadence back issues, a few more
CDs...
***Very Various For Sale: *** http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/4SALE.html

WHERE THE HELL HAVE I BEEN??? :  http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/LUCILLE.html


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 18:10:43 -0400
From: "Jesse Kudler" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Tzadik /other labels

> In a message dated 8/25/00 3:44:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> [e-mail] writes:
> << there's tons of one-man bedroom labels who are releasing, in my mind,
much
>  more radical music than Tzadik is. >>
>
> Such as?

Erstwhile, Perdition Plastics, Boxmedia, 4 Four Ears, Various Austrian
labels (Durian, Charhizma, Plag Dich Nicht), Okka Disk . . .

Oh, I just read the rest of my mail, and Jon and others covered most of the
labels I would've named.  Some of those may not actually be "one-man bedroom
labels" (I have no idea how most of the European ones work; Mego seems to
have several staff people, for instance), but you get the point.

- -Jesse


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 21:13:23 -0400
From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: genres (was Tzadik)

At 10:20 AM 8/25/00 -0500, Steve Smith wrote:
>
>I separate my collection by genre.

I now also separate by genre, and I'm curious how others do this.  I've got
jazz (which includes everything from Louis Armstrong to Evan Parker's
Electroacoustic Ensemble), electroacoustic (holding most of the 'classical'
tape music, but not the new improvisers), world music (roughly by
continent), classical (e.g., Beethoven, Cage), pop songs (e.g., Joni
Mitchell, Queen), newage/ambient/ethno-pop/techno/dub (most of the stuff
discussed on the ambient or Laswell lists), and avantgarde (everything
else, including most of the stuff my wife doesn't like and we do).  What
are your genres?  How fine grained do you get?

- --
Caleb Deupree
[e-mail]

Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance
like nobody's watching.

- -- Satchel Paige

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 21:22:19 -0400
From: "Dann-Brown" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 21:22:19 -0400

> For that matter, not all releases by Japanese composer/performers are
> in the new Japan series

and, my fave, the Wadachi disc of a Japanese trio playing klezmer - where
does that one go? =-)
(it's under New Japan)

- -------
Dann-Brown


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 02:36:34 GMT
From: "Bill Ashline" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: korean music - kim suk chul?

>From: "Kristopher S. Handley" <[e-mail]>

>KOREAN MUSIC - more than once, someone has mentioned a Korean music,
>   though the music sounds like it might not be "traditional" in the
>   common sense.  Is the name Kim Suk Chul?  Could someone correct me
>   on the artist and give names of albums/labels/distributors or
>   outlets?  Other recommendations of Korean music, new and old, would
>   be most welcomed.

>From: [e-mail]

>are there a lot of Chul CDs available? I scoured NYC and the WWW a while
>back, and didn't come up with much. I'd love to hear more...
- --------------------

Sorry to take so long on this, but a recent monsoon has left me pretty inert
about checking around.

There are currently two CDs by Kim Seok-chool (a more accurate rendering of
the pronunciation) that are easy to obtain over here.  They are released by
Samsung's subsidiary E&E Media.  The first, "East Wind," was recorded in
Japan and it features Kim playing traditional Korean drums and gongs and
singing shamanistic folk songs on the first four tracks.  On the fifth and
last he plays the hojok or nallali to marvelous effect.  My only wish
regarding this recording would be that the hojok be featured more.  The
other tracks are fine and rather typical in traditional Korean music.  The
liner notes by Manabu Yuasa pronounce that "in front of" Kim, "even
virtuosos who have developed jazz by Albert Ayler, John Coltrane, or Sun Ra,
have no choice but to leave their instruments and be soaked for a while in
the speechless pleasure of his music."

For those more interested in a productive synthesis of Kim with free improv
musicians, "Final Say" is a better choice.  This CD features Kim with
Wolfgang Pushnig on tarogato and alto.  Pushnig, a Carla Bley alumn, has
been in Korea a lot lately playing in the ensemble Red Sun (Jamaaladeen
Tacuma, Rick Iannacone, and Linda Sharrock) with Samulnori. He is
accompanied by free improv tenor sax phenom Lee Jung-shik, as well as
Japanese alto saxman Kazutoki Umezu.  These four play without rhythm support
on the first and final tracks and the result is really fabulous, with the
hojok soaring above the fray, becoming almost otherworldly in the
harmonically limited terrain of the saxes (think Eric Dolphy in some of his
more outrageous moments).  At times the hojok sounds like its going out of
control and will destroy the composition.  The other three tracks include
Kim Jung-hee and Kim Jung-kuk on kwaenggwari, a traditional drum, Kim
Tong-yol on ching, a gong-like instrument, and Jang Duck-hwa on changgo,
another type of drum.  Both of these CDs are available for around 10-11
dollars.

In addition to the JVC CD mentioned previously, Kim has also played with
another improvisational sax powerhouse, Kang Tae-hwan.  I haven't been able
to track this one down yet, but occasionally one finds Kang's CDs floating
around.  He's an exceptional player.

I've owned what I think is the best of the Red Sun/Samulnori collaborations
for awhile--"Then Comes the White Tiger" on ECM, which I can probably still
find here.  Some of their other collaborations have been less than
successful, if I can be aesthetic for a moment, though I do like the Samsung
released "From the Earth to the Sky, which is readily available here for
12,000 won.

Pascal mentioned Kim So-hee and pansori previously.  She is perhaps the
single most important living pansori artist in the country, though there are
a number of others.  One should also note the musical tradition that
accompanies dance, or salpuri, as well as the orchestrated suites or sanjo
played on a number of traditional instruments, like the kayagum, Korea's
beautiful zither, sometimes used on recordings in western music, on Laurie
Anderson's CDs for example.  The haegum, on the other hand, is somewhat like
a violin.  These days, a dollar is worth roughly 11,000 won.  Here are the
prices on a number of worthwhile recordings:

Kim So-hee box (5 CDs) 45,000
Ahn Sook-sun and Park Byung-chon (pansori) 12,000
Ahn Sook-sun 6 CD box 51,000
Ahn sook-sun 3 CD box 35,000
Cho Soon-ja Complete Female Lyrics (6 CDs) 57,000
Kim Dong-joon (pansori) 19,000

There's also a fine kayagum box set of 2 cds for 19,000 as well as
individual CDs by the aforementioned artists for 10,000 won.  A good start
on Korean traditional music is the series on SKC called "Folk Music
Highlights."  I think there's about 10 in the series and they're all around
10,000 won.  YBM also has a nice series called the "Pal-do-Min-yo" and a
friend one recorded a collection of modern traditional music that uses some
synthesizer that I like a lot.

If any of this interests you, contact me privately and we'll work out the
details.

Cheers,
Bill






________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 21:48:12 -0400
From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: korean music - kim suk chul?

On Sat, Aug 26, 2000 at 02:36:34AM +0000, Bill Ashline wrote:
>  These days, a dollar is worth roughly 11,000 won.  Here are the
> prices on a number of worthwhile recordings:
>
> Kim So-hee box (5 CDs) 45,000
> Ahn Sook-sun and Park Byung-chon (pansori) 12,000
> Ahn Sook-sun 6 CD box 51,000
> Ahn sook-sun 3 CD box 35,000
> Cho Soon-ja Complete Female Lyrics (6 CDs) 57,000
> Kim Dong-joon (pansori) 19,000
>
> There's also a fine kayagum box set of 2 cds for 19,000 as well as
> individual CDs by the aforementioned artists for 10,000 won.  A good start
> on Korean traditional music is the series on SKC called "Folk Music
> Highlights."  I think there's about 10 in the series and they're all around
> 10,000 won.  YBM also has a nice series called the "Pal-do-Min-yo" and a
> friend one recorded a collection of modern traditional music that uses some
> synthesizer that I like a lot.

So do I understand you that these can be gotten for a little more than $1
per disc, or am I not grokking something about the price conversion? Hell,
at that kinda price I'm pick up most of them just out of curiosity.

- --
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| [e-mail]           http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Jerusaklyn                  http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music    Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 02:50:23 GMT
From: "Bill Ashline" <[e-mail]>
Subject: labels and Erstwhile and Ritornell

Steve mentioned Patrice and Herb having their own bedroom-run labels.  I'd
like to know more about these, and I'm sorry if it's been mentioned
somewhere in the archive that I don't know about.  It's always good to hear
about new releases from list denizens, and I think it's important to keep up
with what people are doing on the list musically, particularly in terms of
labels and distribution.

On this note, I saw on the Erstwhile site that a CD will be coming out
involving Stillupsteypa, featured on Mille Plateaux's superb Cliks and Cuts,
and with the latest Dean Roberts, I was wondering if more such projects
involving Mille Plateaux artists would be coming on Erstwhile.  I'm
particular interested in Vladislav Delay these days.  I wonder if Jon has
thought about working with him.

On the Mille Plateux subject, I was wondering if anyone knew how to find a
list of current and projected recordings on the sublabel Ritornell.  I've
found Mille's website difficult to use, and it's hard to find out about
ensuing releases.
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 22:59:37 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: genres (was Tzadik)

In a message dated 8/25/00 9:10:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< I separate my collection by genre.

 I now also separate by genre, and I'm curious how others do this.  I've got
 jazz (which includes everything from Louis Armstrong to Evan Parker's
 Electroacoustic Ensemble), electroacoustic (holding most of the 'classical'
 tape music, but not the new improvisers), world music (roughly by
 continent), classical (e.g., Beethoven, Cage), pop songs (e.g., Joni
 Mitchell, Queen), newage/ambient/ethno-pop/techno/dub (most of the stuff
 discussed on the ambient or Laswell lists), and avantgarde (everything
 else, including most of the stuff my wife doesn't like and we do).  What
 are your genres?  How fine grained do you get?
  >>


alphabetical order

- -matt mitchell

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 03:02:57 GMT
From: "Bill Ashline" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: korean music - kim suk chul?

Sorry typo.  That should have been 1$=1,100 won.


>From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
>
>So do I understand you that these can be gotten for a little more than $1
>per disc, or am I not grokking something about the price conversion? Hell,
>at that kinda price I'm pick up most of them just out of curiosity.
>
>--
>|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
>| [e-mail]           http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
>| Latest CD: Jerusaklyn                  http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
>| Comma: Voices of New Music    Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |
>
>
>-
>

________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 23:13:52 -0400
From: Matt Laferty <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: genres (was Tzadik)

I tend to agree that alphabetical is the way to go for most cds/lps...I'd be too
tempted to make ridiculous in-jokes that only I'd get (like putting Yoko Ono in
the Bluegrass section) and then forgetting that I'd done it.  But I do have the
"various artists" arranged by type...Soul, bluegrass, "avant," "weird (I mean
good) classical" "other pop" (like WFMU compilations), country, jazz (early
swing to sixties blue note comps), out jazz (Ayler-Zorn)

Strangely, the comps that were hardest to file were the "Whirlygigs..." comp on
Ellipsis Arts and "The East Village Other"

Matt

[e-mail] wrote:

> In a message dated 8/25/00 9:10:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>

> alphabetical order
>
> -matt mitchell
>
> -


- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V3 #26
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