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Zorn List Digest      Wednesday, August 23 2000      Volume 03 : Number 017



In this issue:
-
       Odp: the big gundown - reissue
       Coltrane
       Coltrane [2]
       Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #15
       Bley/Burton question
       Re: the big gundown - reissue
       RE: the big gundown - reissue
       Re: RE: the big gundown - reissue
       Re: Big Gundown Reissue
       RE: Big Gundown Reissue
       Re: The Radio Cover
       Patton/Big Gundown/Chadbourne
       Re: Radio Cover / Coltrane
       CDs for sale
       Re: CDs for sale
       ISO: Weezer tickets
       Re: The Radio Cover
       Chasin the Trane
       Re: Chasin the Trane
       RE: Patton/Big Gundown/Chadbourne
       new releases on a new label (no zorn content)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 10:18:07 +0200
From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: the big gundown - reissue

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Verstraeten Stefan <[e-mail]>

> Here are the tracks and players:
> -The sicilian clan (feldman, friedlander, ribot, cohen, baron, baptista)
> -Macchie Solari (hatori, saft)
> -The ballad of Hank McCain (patton, saft, baptista)
> -Suegliatti & Uccidi (ribot, bailey, dunn, baron)
> -Chi Mai (feldman, friedlander, ribot, cohen, baron, baptista)

Were they recorded at the same sessions that the rest of the album were? The
lineup are very 90's-like... i would be surprised by Bar Kokhba records from
the '80s...

Marcin Gokieli
[e-mail] [e-mail]
Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you
are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 10:20:21 +0200
From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Coltrane

From: &c. <[e-mail]>

> Can some recommend some of Coltrane's experimental/free jazz albums for
me.
> His more straight playing has me hypnotized at the moment and I want to
> explore his other side.  Thanks

I'd recommend Ascension - a kind of a big band, recently reissued - and
Stellar Regions. Wild music (although I must say that I like miles's
'structured' approach much more).

Marcin Gokieli
[e-mail] [e-mail]
Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you
are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor



- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 12:02:49 +0200
From: Tim Blechmann <[e-mail]>
Subject: Coltrane [2]

Try out OM and Meditations. And there are great live recordings from
Japan. (4 CD Set)



- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 13:52:52 +0200
From: Julien Quint <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #15

[e-mail] (Zach) said:
> Can some recommend some of Coltrane's experimental/free jazz albums
> for me. His more straight playing has me hypnotized at the moment and
> I want to explore his other side.  Thanks

Here are a few of my favorites:

  * "Interstellar Space" has already been mentioned a couple times
  * "Stellar Regions", some of his last recordings
  * "Meditations", a transition record between his classic quartet and
    his new group
  * "Sun Ship", an incredible record
  * "Live in Japan", an impressive 4-cd set.

All are on Impulse and easily available, except maybe "Live in Japan".

- --
Julien



- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 08:10:36 -0400
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Bley/Burton question

skip h asked:
   Does anyone know if the reissue of Gary Burton's GENIUNE TONG FUNERAL (an
   all-Carla program) has any bonus material?

About half of LOFTY FAKE ANAGRAM was tacked on to it. Odd.



- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 13:29:19 GMT
From: "Arthur Gadney" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: the big gundown - reissue

Hey,

>-Suegliatti & Uccidi (ribot, bailey, dunn, baron)

Anybody know which film this song is from?

ARTHUR_G
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 15:41:51 +0200
From: Verstraeten Stefan <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: the big gundown - reissue

Hi,

Yes, it is a pity.
It has an extended booklet, but it does not say anything about this new
tracks.....

Best wishes

Stefan Verstraeten

NP Maeror Tri: Meditamentum II

- -----Original Message-----
From: Arthur Gadney [mailto:[e-mail]]
Sent: dinsdag 22 augustus 2000 15:29
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: the big gundown - reissue


Hey,

>-Suegliatti & Uccidi (ribot, bailey, dunn, baron)

Anybody know which film this song is from?

ARTHUR_G

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 09:56:29 -0400
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: RE: the big gundown - reissue

>-Suegliatti & Uccidi (ribot, bailey, dunn, baron)
>Anybody know which film this song is from?

It's from a 1966 crime film by Carlo Lizzani known in English as "Too Soon to Die."

Lang


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 10:26:59 -0400
From: Zach Griffin <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Big Gundown Reissue

- --------------1B47F7BC068782F12C7DBFE3
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> So as a conclusion they should be new, since for example in 1984 Mike Patton
> was not recording with zorn.... I think.
>

Not only was Patton not recording with Zorn.  Patton was in High School
when The Big Gundown was recorded.

Zach Griffin


- --------------1B47F7BC068782F12C7DBFE3
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<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>

<blockquote TYPE=CITE>
<pre>So as a conclusion they should be new, since for example in 1984 Mike Patton
was not recording with zorn.... I think.</pre>
</blockquote>

<p><br>Not only was Patton not recording with Zorn.  Patton was in
High School when The Big Gundown was recorded.
<p>Zach Griffin
<br> </html>

- --------------1B47F7BC068782F12C7DBFE3--


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 10:58:21 -0400
From: "Neil H. Enet" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Big Gundown Reissue

The TZADIK website says the following about the BIG GUNDOWN REISSUE:

"Newly remastered, this 15th anniversary edition, includes six remarkable
bonus tracks RECORDED ESPECIALLY FOR THIS DEFINITIVE EDITION now available
exclusively from Tzadik".

    So I think there's no doubt that they're newly recorded.

Neil H. Enet
- ------------


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 08:09:13 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The Radio Cover

On Tue, 22 Aug 2000 03:06:42 EDT  [e-mail] wrote:
>
> Does anyone know if the reissue of Gary Burton's GENIUNE TONG FUNERAL (an
> all-Carla program) has any bonus material?

It does:

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*** - A GENUINE TONG FUNERAL: Gary Burton, Carla Bley

    1967 - RCA (USA), LSP-3988 (LP)
    1967 - RCA (USA), SF 8015 (LP)
    ???? - RCA (Japan), 6204 (LP)
    1968 - RCA Victor (France), RCA-Masters PL 42766 (LP)
    1994 - RCA (Japan), BVCJ-7330 (CD)
    1994 - BMG (France), BM 720 74321192552 (CD)
    1995 - BMG (Germany), 874793 (CD)
    1996 - RCA (Germany), 21192552 (CD)
    1997 - One Way Records (USA), OW 34510 (CD)
    1999 - RCA Victor (USA), 07863 66748-2 (CD)

  Note: the 1999 RCA Victor reissue includes additional tracks from LOFTY FAKE
  ANAGRAM.

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Patrice.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 17:49:23 GMT
From: "William York" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Patton/Big Gundown/Chadbourne

>Where does the picture on Naked City's Radio come from.  It looks
> >remarkably like some pictures of Mike Patton while performing with Mr.
> >Bungle. Is there a connection?

I really doubt it. Patton did perform with Naked City, but like someone else
said the back photo says "Man Ray" and the front is almost surely from
Zorn's archives (or maybe also by Man Ray). I think the only connection is
that Patton wore a bondage mask that looked like that.

About the Big Gundown:

>So as a conclusion they should be new, since for example in 1984 Mike
> >Patton was not recording with zorn.... I think.

Right, he would have been about 14 years old. Anyway, about the other bonus
tracks: I recognize some of those as cover songs; is the one with Derek
Bailey improv or some kind of "cover" version as well? Either way, this
would seem strange (free improv on a tribute record, or Bailey playing a
song, that is).

>NP Eugene Chadbourne & Paul Lovens (Leo Records)

How is this? I saw it, but again, haven't had a chance to hear it. Also, has
anyone heard that CD "The Zu Side of Eugene Chadbourne" with that Italian
band? If so, how is that one?

Finally I have another brief interview w/ Dr. Chadbourne that's for an
upcoming article, but for anyone who wants to read it (or post it somewhere)
let me know.

Thanks a lot,

WY
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 13:47:59 -0500 (CDT)
From: Whit Schonbein <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Radio Cover / Coltrane

> MEEP! "&c." <[e-mail]> wrote:
> >Where does the picture on Naked City's Radio come from.  It looks remarkably
> >like some pictures of Mike Patton while performing with Mr. Bungle.

It is indeed a photo by man ray - from the 1930's, maybe.  the bondage
photo is also by man ray, if i recall correctly.

> Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 21:30:35 -0400
> From: "&c." <[e-mail]>
>
> Can some recommend some of Coltrane's experimental/free jazz albums for me.
> His more straight playing has me hypnotized at the moment and I want to
> explore his other side.  Thanks

Interstellar Space is a classic.
Meditations is also highly recommended.  I prefer 'First Meditations,'
which is just the quartet (the later Meditations, released earlier but
recorded later, has an expanded band, and is more free).
Sombody mentioned Ascension - definitely an intense experience.  This used
to come packaged with Kule Se Mama (sp) in a double disc set; the whole
set was great. I think it was called (of all things) 'The Major Works of
John Coltrane' (as if A Love Supreme or Blue Trane were 'minor'). I think
They subsequently remastered them and released them seperately, but I
don't know. You should probably avoid Om, Live in Seattle, and Live in
Japan, for the time being...

opining,
whit

np - hooker/marclay/renaldo - 'banquet' - nice noise; anything with
marclay is nice noise.



- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 13:09:08 -0600
From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki  (S) " <[e-mail]>
Subject: CDs for sale

I'm trying to sell the following:

~Julius Hemphill Sextet "At Dr. King's Table" New World $8
~Marty Erlich's Dark Woods Ensemble "Live Wood"  2CD Music and Arts $14
     (personel, Erlich - winds, Friedlander - cello, Helias - bass)
      Recorded from a european tour in 1996
~Wayne Shorter "Ju Ju" Blue Note $8
     (personel= McCoy Tyner, Reggie Workman, Elvin Jones)
~Morton Feldman "Durations I-V, Coptic Light" cpo $8
~Harriet Tubman "I am a man" Knitting factory works $8
     (personel, Brandon Ross - guitar, Melvin Gibbs - bass,
      J.T. Lewis - drums)
~Tetreault, M, Otani, Yoshihide "Four Focuses" Amoebic $10
~Charles Mingus "Let my Children Hear Music" Columbia $8

Prices include shipping within the continental United states.
Overseas shipping will cost a bit more.
Please mail me privately if you are interested.

Thanks,
Matt Wirzbicki


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 14:18:57 -0400
From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: CDs for sale

I'll grab these. if not yet taken:

> ~Marty Erlich's Dark Woods Ensemble "Live Wood"  2CD Music and Arts $14
>      (personel, Erlich - winds, Friedlander - cello, Helias - bass)
>       Recorded from a european tour in 1996
> ~Tetreault, M, Otani, Yoshihide "Four Focuses" Amoebic $10
> ~Charles Mingus "Let my Children Hear Music" Columbia $8


- --
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| [e-mail]           http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Jerusaklyn                  http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music    Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 16:24:17 -0400
From: Dan Hewins <[e-mail]>
Subject: ISO: Weezer tickets

Sorry for the shot-in-the-dark-waste-of-bandwidth but....

If anyone has extra tickets for Weezer tomorrow night at Irving Plaza
in NYC please email me a.s.a.p.  Thank you.

Dan Hewins

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 18:03:34 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: The Radio Cover

In a message dated 8/22/00 3:11:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [e-mail]
writes:

<< Does anyone know if the reissue of Gary Burton's GENIUNE TONG FUNERAL (an
 all-Carla program) has any bonus material?
  >>
 It does.  About half of the LOFTY FAKE ANAGRAM album appears at the end of
it.

- -matt

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 22:10:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: Sigmund Nonanima <[e-mail]>
Subject: Chasin the Trane

Who was asking about Coltrane? Here it is...

Ascension is definitely earth-shattering stuff (not to
all, though-?), but it's a bit of a rite of passage
thing: you've gotta be prepared for approx. 40 minutes
of violent mid-60's New Thing playing (including the
perpetually pissed-off Archie Shepp...well, he used to
be pissed), but it's worth it

No one said a Love Supreme? okay, A Love Supreme. But
there's also the little case of

MEDITATIONS MEDITATIONS MEDITATIONS MEDITATIONS!!!

get this album (yes, Meditations), because it'll rip
yer head off. I can't say more, because ALL of my
music is in storage right now (Yes, Trane, Zorn,
everything...goddamnit), and if I write too much about
I'll cry, openly, from not being able to listen to it.

[insert little sad face represented by punctuation
here]

best thing to do is befriend someone with a phatty
Coltrane collection and get to borrowin. btw, His late
stuff only increases your appreciation of his early
stuff (of course), and he advanced so quickly and
recorded to often that -given the time- you can
actually HEAR his improvement/metamorphosis (whichever
you wanna term it) from disc to disc. It's a very
enriching experience, and I only lie to people that I
know...

Oh yeah, about Radio--that is Man Ray (at least the
prayer/ass phote on the back).

and Mike Patton has a sweet ass, anyway, and I only
lie about people I know

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 01:43:37 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Chasin the Trane

the Coltrane record I've probably played the most over the last few years is
one I don't think's been mentioned yet, Coltrane's Sound (Atlantic). great
tunes and playing by the classic quartet, except Steve Davis is subbing for
Jimmy Garrison, and it contains the oft-covered, gorgeous Equinox.

Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 08:48:49 +0200
From: Verstraeten Stefan <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Patton/Big Gundown/Chadbourne

- -----Original Message-----
From: William York [mailto:[e-mail]]
Subject: Patton/Big Gundown/Chadbourne

I think the only connection is
that Patton wore a bondage mask that looked like that.

(stefan) are you referring to the picture that can be found in the booklet
of Bob Ostertags' album "Fear No Love" (on the Avant label)? Or did he
actually perform with one of those things?

About the Big Gundown:
Anyway, about the other bonus
tracks: I recognize some of those as cover songs; is the one with Derek
Bailey improv or some kind of "cover" version as well? Either way, this
would seem strange (free improv on a tribute record, or Bailey playing a
song, that is).

(stefan) I don't know the original version, but the track has a feeling of
composed music and not free improv. However, it is not unusual that Derek
Bailey acutally covers a song the way it is written (I know that he also
impovises on songs, like the Mengelberg track "Where is the police"). But
these moments are rare, you are right about that. IMHO the tracks sounds
like a cover, the only problem is that it is played rather noisey (compare
this track to the album Ground Zero plays standards, and you know what I
mean).

>NP Eugene Chadbourne & Paul Lovens (Leo Records)
How is this? I saw it, but again, haven't had a chance to hear it.

(stefan) It is a great album. It is a double cd on the leo label. It is
however not a consistent album: it has studio and live tracks, covers and
self-written tracks, played by chadbourne solo - lovens solo and duo
recordings, lo-fi and hi-fi parts. But generally speaking it is a great
album: chadbourne and lovens actually play in a conventional style and the
covers are great (lots of country off course). But the songs that are
written by chadbourne himself are the best... take a typical country tune
and sing a stupid story above it.
BTW, there is a new Lovens/Chadbourne record out on his own label House of
Chadula, but this is on its way to me.

Also, has
anyone heard that CD "The Zu Side of Eugene Chadbourne" with that Italian
band? If so, how is that one?

(stefan) Same as above: the cd is on its way to me. I ordered quite some
stuff on his own label and post some reviews when they will arrive.

Finally I have another brief interview w/ Dr. Chadbourne that's for an
upcoming article, but for anyone who wants to read it (or post it somewhere)

let me know.

(stefan) as far as i am concerned, Write me in. But why not post it on the
zornlist?

Best wishes

Stefan Verstraeten

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 10:06:39 +0200
From: Verstraeten Stefan <[e-mail]>
Subject: new releases on a new label (no zorn content)

Hello Zornmembers,

I know that there are quite some fans of noise music and musique =
conr=E8te,
and yes, they can meet after all.

There is a new Cd-r label called "A pyrrhic victory" (website
http://www.manifoldrecords.com/pyrrhicvictory.html ) that allready =
released
three amazing albums.

- -Hands to: Turn back the sun
This is an cd that was previously (and slightly different) released on =
the
GROSS label (the cassette label of AUBE). Keyman behind this project is =
Jeph
Jerman. A well known underground figure, but it was my first =
introduction.
The album sounds a bit like John Duncan, but more in the lo-fi style. =
The
sound consists of location recordings (valleys, creeks, ...), distant
voices, glitches, ... all well structured together. The general =
impression
is a haunting sphere.

- -Jeph Jerman: Beach tree and birds
Solo project of the Hands To foreman (strange if you ask me... a solo
project of a band who consists of only one man.....). Once again
manipultated field recordings... but no more hiss and tape glitches. On =
this
cd, more sound sources are used than on the Hands To cd wich gives a =
more
varied soundspectrum. Based on the tracks I would say that he used the =
sound
of tree, birds, bamboo, stones,... but because of the manipulation, it =
is
hard to say. The housing of the cd is great: a digipack covered with =
old
national geographic maps.

- -Augur: All the smallest granules of time
Personally I have never heard before of Steve Brand of Augur, but what =
an
impression he made. The cd is based on two projects that were running
independently, but came together after all. Steve Brand recieved a =
package
of old family photographs and started thinking music with this pictures =
and
emotions. Vince from Manifold records received discarded motion picture
films from long-dead family members, and wanted that some would make a
"soundtrack" for these movies. The result is fabulous: what you hear is =
a
"patchwork" of sounds that are related to the pictures and the movies: =
old
recordings, broken phonographs with abnormal pitch and speed, =
environmental
sounds,...
Also in this case the packaging is superb: the cover features a small =
phot
of his ancestors and the case is a transparent jewel case filled with
negatives from the movies that Vince received.

However note that all these releases are limited (100 copies), so hurry =
up
if you want any of these gems....

Best wishes

Stefan Verstraeten

- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V3 #17
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