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Zorn List Digest        Tuesday, July 11 2000        Volume 02 : Number 996



In this issue:
-
       Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #994
       Re: jack smith.
       Re: Odp: Kristallnacht
       =?iso-8859-1?Q?Caine=B4s?= Goldberg Variations
       Re: Zorn in Spain?
       Charlie Haden
       Masada Trivia
       =?iso-8859-1?Q?Caine's_'Classical'projects_=28was_RE:_Caine=B4s_Goldberg_?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?Variations=29?=
       =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20Caine's=20'Classical'projects=20(was=20RE:=20Caine=B4s=20Goldberg=20Variations)?=
       Re: jack smith.
       Bang On a Can Concert TONIGHT!
       Jack smith - or the view from the bottom of the pool
       RE: Bang On a Can Concert TONIGHT!
       raaijmakers
       Art Ensemble-Les Stances a Sophie
       game pieces
       django reinhardt
       Re: game pieces

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 19:16:36 CDT
From: "Lenny Barszap" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #994

If anyone recorded this show, I'd love to get a copy of it!

http://www.tapercities.com/TheCrossroads/lendakike/traders.html

Lenny
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 00:14:56 -0400
From: Matt Teichman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: jack smith.

> It is one of the most annoying records in my complete collection...

This is the same Jack Smith of Flaming Creatures fame, is it not?  Does he
have a band on the record?  I was under the impression that it was just a
CD of him rambling on about Maria Montez and his other obssessions.  The
only exposure I have to Smith thus far is Flaming Creatures, which actually
has a rather amusing soundtrack (it sounds like a decaying vinyl record
from the 1920s broadcast through a broken radio).

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 08:10:22 +0200
From: Fritz Feger <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Odp: Kristallnacht

At 19:25 09.07.00, Bill Ashline wrote:

>Yes, well if art is political it doesn't mean it's necessarily didactic in
>being political. Music that is very political without overtly meaning to
>be, without being direct and in your face (except in his case for the
>packaging and the remarks).  The forms that musicians take with their
>music are very often a consequence of their politics.

"Being political" can refer to two different things. What you have in mind
is music being motivated by or being an expression of political positions.
What I had in mind was in fact a "didactic" understanding, i.e. music meant
to play a political role consisting in the power to change perception in a
politically relevant way. And, IMHO, Zorn's work is virtually paradigmatic
for the latter.

>Now [Free Jazz] has become basically a "genre" of the avant-garde, and the
>politics that undergirded these impulses have largely gone away.  Or at
>least the sensibility is no longer the same.  This, of course, is the
>usual story for most avant-gardes anyway--they eventually become rear-guard.

Yes, political meaningfulness imperceptibly transforms into genre-politics
where violations of the stylistic dogms are fighted instead of some social
or political abuse or something. A musical genre bolshevizes ;-) (how would
one say this in English?)

Fritz Feger.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 12:45:40 +0200
From: Stephen Fruitman <[e-mail]>
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Caine=B4s?= Goldberg Variations

Just got my mitts on Uri Caine=B4s new double CD _The Goldberg Variations_
(Winter & Winter). So pleased with the results - in the spirit of the
Mahler records, but with a much wider variety of styles and array of
musicians. Rather than strictly one ensemble playing all the pieces (70
variations in all!), combos and soloists combine and then recombine in
varying constellations. Opens with Caine playing the theme on the piano,
then a version in which he is joined by a viole de gamba player, then it
just unwinds - small jazz ensemble versions, blues versions, choral
versions, DJ versions (several of them by, among others, DJ Olive), a
variety of Latino versions, gospel, a klezmer version, a lute and a violin,
a solo cello, a bossa nova version sung by Vinicius Cantu=E1ria, a string
quartet version, a couple of versions with poets reciting verse over the
version, all wrapped up with a quiet, three minute ambient version by Danny
Blume of Liminal. In my ears (after two listens) a masterpiece.

All the best, Stephen








- ---------------------------------

Bj=F6rn Olsson,
Inst. f=F6r id=E9historia,
Ume=E5 universitet
901 87 Ume=E5
tel. [phone] fax 143374
e-post: [e-mail]



- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 15:47:56 +0200
From: patRice <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn in Spain?

good things take time...

[e-mail] asked about zorn playing spain.

i don't know about that.

but i can only recommend the following site:

http://www.ejn.it/saudades/

saudades represents zorn and lots of other artists discussed here in
europe. they usually have touring schedules up on the site.

patRice


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 09:10:52 CDT
From: "samuel yrui" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Charlie Haden

hey,
  i am considering the purchase of three cds: The Montreal Tapes.

    could someone describe what they're like and how they rate among Haden
material?
  thanks in ham sandwiches,
    -samuel







Another more overt case was Charlie Haden in the Music Liberation Orchestra.



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Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 10:20:33 -0400
From: Matt Teichman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Masada Trivia

Did Susie Ibarra really play drums w/ Masada at one point?  It said this
somewhere on the Forced Exposure site.  That would be quite interesting to
hear!  Does anyone have any comments on when/where/if this happened, and
what it sounded like?

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 17:19:14 +0200
From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Caine's_'Classical'projects_=28was_RE:_Caine=B4s_Goldberg_?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?Variations=29?=

    Stephen Fruitman gave us a very positive review of Caine's Bach project.
My copy should arrive about the 20th of July (the guy who distributes W&W in
Poland is on holiday for a week), and  the description Stephen provided
seems to indicate that I'll like the stuff very much.
    And I want to ask: what wre the other Caine's classical projects like?
He recorded Wagner and Schumann... I' ve been told that those releases are
less 'radical' then the Mahler thing. Any opinions?
Marcin Gokieli
[e-mail]
Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you
are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor











- -



- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 22:48:24 -0500
From: Matthew Ross Davis <[e-mail]>
Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20Caine's=20'Classical'projects=20(was=20RE:=20Caine=B4s=20Goldberg=20Variations)?=

I'm very much looking forward to a Caine Bach project, and wasn't even
aware of the Schumann one (though admittedly I'd prefer the Bach, Wagner
or Mahler over that).

The Wagner project is straightforward compared to Mahler - it's an
ensemble playing the ink, so to speak. The wonderful and magical thing
about the performance, IMO, is 1) the beauty in which the group expresses
the music, and 2) the amazing transformation of music written for
enormous forces into music for a chamber ensemble. And I must add that
the texture of the accordion to Wagner's music is really refreshing and
unique - it really makes you listen to the stuff in a different way.

On Tue, Jul 11, 2000, Marcin Gokieli <[e-mail]> wrote:

>    Stephen Fruitman gave us a very positive review of Caine's Bach project.
>My copy should arrive about the 20th of July (the guy who distributes W&W in
>Poland is on holiday for a week), and  the description Stephen provided
>seems to indicate that I'll like the stuff very much.
>    And I want to ask: what wre the other Caine's classical projects like?
>He recorded Wagner and Schumann... I' ve been told that those releases are
>less 'radical' then the Mahler thing. Any opinions?
>Marcin Gokieli
>[e-mail]
>Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you
>are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>-
>
>
>
>-
>
>



| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | m - a - t - t - h - e - w | r - o - s - s | d - a - v - i - s | |
| | http://www.artswire.org/mrd | | | | http://www.mp3.com/craque | |
| | http://www.metatronpress.com  | | http://www.mp3.com/graycode | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 11:55:27 -0400
From: "John L. Scott / Tonic" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: jack smith.

>> has anyone heard any of the jack smith recordings on Table of
>> The Elements and care to give a review?
>>
> It is one of the most annoying records in my complete collection...
>
> I know that Jack Smith is a mythic figure of the NY art scene and
> that he is a god for Zorn, but based on (at least) the records under
> his name, it is hard for me to understand why. The first record is
> amateurish to the point of being insulting to amateurs, and I can't
> stand Jack Smith's delivery (that I find fatuous and self-indulgent).
> Since I don't understand what he is saying (and I am ashamed to say
> that I did not even try), there is a strong possibility that I missed
> something of prime importance. If you want to buy the records for the
> (quite) impressive list of guests, you will be even more disappointed
> since their involvement is anecdotic.
>
I've never listened to any of Smith's recordings but I've seen a few of his
films
and theater pieces (on video).  Zorn definitely feels strongly about the
importance of Smith's work and is making an effort to keep it in
circulation.
He's hosting his second annual(?) Jack Smith benefit night at Tonic later
this
month where he'll be showing a collection of Smith's slides, films and
videos.
He'll also be spinning records (DJ Zorn!) from Smith's collection (mostly
exotica) in the same manner that Smith did when he would host his own
events -
abruptly ending songs, blindly slamming down the needle in the middle of a
record, etc.  Last year Zorn took it a step further and tried to recreate
the
atmosphere of a Smith event as closely as possible right down to burning the
same
scent of incense Smith apparently used to burn in abundance.  Anyway it
might
change your opinion of Smith's recordings if you see his work in
film/theater.

"Jack was one of the purest artists that ever lived, his work is at the
core of all downtown art." (John Zorn)


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 14:52:03 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Bang On a Can Concert TONIGHT!

Dear Zorn-listers,

I thought, with the recent talk about BOAC, you all might be interested in
attending the performance they are giving tonight.  They will be playing the
music of Steve Reich @ The Cooper-Hewitt National Design museum (NYC).  It is
located at the corner of 91st. & 5th Ave. (4,5,6 sub. to 86th & 96th st.).

Also, there will be more "minimalism" later this week, with an all electronic
instrument performance of Terry Riley's magnum opus "In C".  This will take
place at the Ethical Culture Society (not sure where this is, perhaps someone
can post the location on the list).  Pauline Oliveros will be included as one
of the performers.  I'm not sure who else is playing.  word.

- -Evan

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 20:57:04 +0100
From: andy sara <[e-mail]>
Subject: Jack smith - or the view from the bottom of the pool

Never knew that Zorn was a Smith fan but i guess it figures.
The two albums are certainly an acquired taste but have plenty going for
them-
Smiths voice is wonderful! for one and the stories/ ramblings are
uniquely off the wall in a way that only Smith was- some of it is ropey
but then again part of the attraction is its interest value... and it is
a vital element in the picture of an artist who for the most part
created work which has exists only in the traces of a time (and place)
long gone.  Hearing the cd's brought something of the art and ideas of
the movies and images come to life and make more sense. Much of the
music on the CD's seems more like sketches or prototypes for something
else but the roughness of the tracks is part of their "mouldy" appeal
for me. It is messy- its is at times ugly and it is constantly is danger
of disintegrating- which is a big part of the appeal of smith's work.

The cd's certainly veer towards recordings of a group of stoned friends
jamming and telling stories, but there are some really gems like The
first Memoirs of Maria Montez and  The Horrors of Agony (on Silent
Shadows on Cinemaroc Island)  and Jack Smith reads Les E G's Dammnees
and  Earthquake Orgy (Les Evening Gowns Damnees)- In fact listening to
Silent Shadows as I type I had forgotten how much I love these Cd's.
They are completely hilarious, hysterical, melodramatic and moving- and
suggest the anarchy that Smith's shows must have let loose.

Even if the cd's do nothing for you - check out Smith's writing  in Wait
for me at the Bottom of the Pool which contains some fantastic stuff.
Somewhere left of Boroughs in many ways- the sound and visual
exploration that Smith carried out remain a challenge and a provocation
towards art and creativity that is transgressive and liberating- if not
always perfect.  Smith's exploration of images and words continues to
haunt me ever since seeing Flaming Creatures and other Jack related
films at the ICA five or so years ago.

To me Smith remains an intriguing -compulsive- unexplored energy in
modern art and I'll speak up for the CD's and recommend them.

"When an Uncle Fishook falls into your life you have to fight it till
the end"
JS


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 16:05:41 -0400
From: "Ljova" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Bang On a Can Concert TONIGHT!

Ethical Culture Society is located on Central Park West, I  believe on 65th
street.  if not that, then 66th.

Cheers,

- -L

- --------
Lev "Ljova" Zhurbin
[e-mail]
http://Ljova.com/
Listen to my music:
http://mp3.com/Ljova/ (improvisations)
http://mp3.com/LevZhurbin/ (compositions)
http://mp3.com/FreeBach/ (Free Bach Project)

"Do not fear mistakes - there are none."
        -Miles Davis

> Also, there will be more "minimalism" later this week, with an
> all electronic
> instrument performance of Terry Riley's magnum opus "In C".  This
> will take
> place at the Ethical Culture Society (not sure where this is,
> perhaps someone
> can post the location on the list).  Pauline Oliveros will be
> included as one
> of the performers.  I'm not sure who else is playing.  word.
>
> -Evan
>
> -
>


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 15:23:16 -0500 (CDT)
From: Whit Schonbein <[e-mail]>
Subject: raaijmakers

just thought i'd mention that there are some real audio clips of material
from each of the 3 cds in the box set discussed on the list a copule of
days ago at the barnes&nobel website (www.bn.com).  then buy it from
anomolous records ;)

whit


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 18:09:06 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Art Ensemble-Les Stances a Sophie

according to their ad in the current Wire, Soul Jazz, an English label, is
reissuing this on LP and CD soon.

I'm excited; I've never heard it before, except for the superb Theme De
Yo-Yo, the best thing I've ever heard by the AEC. now someone needs to
rerelease People In Sorrow, and I'll be a happy guy.

Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 23:12:10 -0400
From: "&c." <[e-mail]>
Subject: game pieces

I know what a game piece is in theory.  But what is it in practice.  What
are the rules like?  Are they simply order of solos or are they as detailed
as tempo, dynamics, style, or keys.  How does the prompter inform a person
of broken rules? Are all these things a closely kept secret kept by Mr.
Zorn?  Has any one out there actually written on themselves or participated
in one?

Thanks for the help
Zach

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 20:52:31 -0700
From: [e-mail]
Subject: django reinhardt

any django fans in the house? i'm listening to james carter's new
tribute to the guitarist and he does "nuages" as a tango, which wasn't
my memory of the original. but my memory ... what was i saying? and it
sounds so good this way. so. can anybody tell me if this was a tango in
django's version? if not, know of anyone else doing it as a tango?

(carter's considerable talents continue to blossom on both this and his
new one with jamaaladeen/weston/ribot -- the latter basically a funk
jam that has the flat moments you'd expect from little preparation. but
i prefer that he just say no to this stylistic promiscuity and develop
his own bag.)

martin

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 21:51:43 -0700
From: Reuben Radding <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: game pieces

At 11:12 PM 7/11/00 -0400, &c. wrote:
>I know what a game piece is in theory.  But what is it in practice.  What
>are the rules like?  Are they simply order of solos or are they as detailed
>as tempo, dynamics, style, or keys.  How does the prompter inform a person
>of broken rules? Are all these things a closely kept secret kept by Mr.
>Zorn?  Has any one out there actually written on themselves or participated
>in one?

I reccomend reading the chapter on Zorn in Derek Bailey's book
IMPROVISATION to get Zorn's explanation, but I've played Cobra a lot (as
well as a few other game pieces) and most of my experience playing the
piece was with Zorn directing, so here's an attempt to clarify:

In Cobra, all the actualy musical content is dictated by the musicians
themselves using a system of hand signals which tell a prompter what he or
she wants the band to do. The prompter holds up a card with a symbol on it
that corresponds to the hand signal the musician used, and then brings it
down in a "downbeat" motion. At that point the band changes their function
from what they were doing to what the call asked for.

The calls themselves range from simple requests of who should play, or
calls that modify the music in some way. For example, there is a call
called Group Change, where everyone who is playing must choose someone who
is not playing to imitate their sound when the new downbeat comes. There
are calls that initiate systems of duos, or of trading, or volume changes.
There are also "Guerilla Systems" where individuals or groups of three
within the band can seize greater levels of power (temporarily).

All of this is filtered through the prompter who enforces the rules simply
by only taking legal calls or by ending any system being used incorrectly.
In the 15 or so times I've performed Cobra (about 6 of which were prompted
by Zorn) I've usually seen rule breakage happen mostly by mistake. The
first few times you play the piece it can be pretty confusing, and
everybody reacts differently to that. A good prompter makes it easy to
understand what's expected of you as a player, but when it comes to using
the hand signals and making calls, that usually comes a little slower to
people. On the 10th anniversary of the game's conception, Zorn told us some
amusing anecdotes about some of the earliest musicians to play the game. My
favorite was his incredulous reaction to how long it took  Bill Frisell to
assert himself in the workings of the game. "Guess how long it took Bill to
make his forst call?" he asked us. I think I guessed something like 6
weeks. Zorn said, "it was five YEARS! I just about had a heart attack when
he finally raised his hand!" Some people are more comfortable just
following others' instructions than they are with making decisions.

I hope that helps. Cobra is conceptually simple, but complicated to
actually play.

all the best,

Reuben Radding
[e-mail]


- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V2 #996
*******************************


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