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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #993
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Saturday, July 8 2000 Volume 02 : Number 993
In this issue:
-
re: Frisell & Eskelin
Odp: Kristallnacht
RE: Odp: Thanks for Green/Frisell
Re: Odp: Kristallnacht
RE: Odp: Thanks for Green/Frisell
ribot redux
ribot revised
Re: U.S. Customs
Re: UFO or Die
Re: Funk
Kristallnacht (was Re: Ribot inquiry)
Re: U.S. Customs
Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #991
Re: soprano sax players
Satellite radio
Re: Odp: Kristallnacht
Frisell's "Sweetest Punch" (was: re: Frisell & Eskelin)
Bang On a Can
Re: Bang On a Can
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 09:14:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: James Graves <James.Graves@oberlin.edu>
Subject: re: Frisell & Eskelin
What do people think of Frisell's "Sweetest Punch" anyway? I love that
record, but I also love the Bacharach/Costello record with the same tunes:
Painted from Memory. IMHO it is some of Frisell's best work to date, more
of that gorgeous arranging that makes Quartet so good. Wonder why Brian
Blade plays drums instead of Kenny?
As for Ellery stuff, I've always enjoyed Joint Venture's "Mirrors" a lot.
Really original writing for jazz quartet that sound something like Ornette
Coleman from the 60's, if his heads had been a little longer. Great
players on it too: Drew Gress, Paul Smoker and a great drummer whose name
has slipped my mind at the momeny.
Jamie
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 15:23:18 +0200
From: "Marcin Gokieli" <marcingokieli@go2.pl>
Subject: Odp: Kristallnacht
From: Dann-Brown <DLB7@prodigy.net>
> > I think that on this record the historical elements play a very
important
> > role. So when you say that 'it'sd boring' 'pointless' etc.
> I didn't mean to imply that i thought it was pointless. I think
> 'aimless' is the word I used. I don't wish to come across saying that I
> think I know how Zorn could have written his own composition better, but
> what's to say he couldn't have accomplished the imagery he was trying to
> attain in, just to toss out a random number, four minutes instead of
almost
> twelve?
Well, THAT IS THE POINT. The compositionm and the message consists not only
in the image produced, but also in the reaction (in YOU, ME and every
listener). Just when you push the 'next tune' button you are doing what the
German citizens could not do (but certainly would like to). It is amazing
that such a moment and action was just a SOUND for some people.
> > It can make one think.
> And it most definately does. But my comments about the actual music
> itself stand.
Of course, but what is challenged here is the idea of 'music without
commitment' etc. Haden used to say that music is always political. Zorn make
us think on what we do when we decide to 'just relax and listen to some
music', when we decide to judge what we here from the 'esthetical stance'.
It's a kind of humour, in a way. He seems to say "of course, there is no
other way. We all do it".
> Dann-Brown
> np:Kristallnacht (all this discussion made me want to go back and listen
to
> it again for further insight)
I'll have to do the same. ;-)
BTW in the 'soundpieces2' interview Zorn said that Kristallnacht was his
most important work to date.
Marcin Gokieli
marcingokieli@go2.pl
<<Thanks to this excellent device
man shall reenter paradise.>>
Auden & Kallman, Stravinsky's "The Rake's Progress"
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 11:59:50 -0300
From: Linares Hugo <hulinare@bemberg.com.ar>
Subject: RE: Odp: Thanks for Green/Frisell
> was supposed to do some European shows in trio (wollesen/somebody) this
> summer. It will not be recorded?
>
[Linares Hugo]
It was announced he will do a couple shows in August in Buenos Aires
with Kenny Wollesen and Tony Scherr of Bernstein's Sex Mob.
It'd be great to see this trio live, don't you think so?
Hugo.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 08:11:24 -0700
From: William Crump <william@steno.com>
Subject: Re: Odp: Kristallnacht
Marcin Gokieli wrote:
>
> Well, THAT IS THE POINT. The compositionm and the message consists not only
> in the image produced, but also in the reaction (in YOU, ME and every
> listener). Just when you push the 'next tune' button you are doing what the
> German citizens could not do (but certainly would like to). It is amazing
> that such a moment and action was just a SOUND for some people.
Now we've reached the reason I don't listen to Kristallnacht very often --
"Never Again" makes my head split, and I feel too guilty listening to just the
other tracks, because it seems to undermine the composer's intent.
William Crump
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 18:14:58 +0200
From: "Artur Nowak" <arno@emd.pl>
Subject: RE: Odp: Thanks for Green/Frisell
> BTW, there's also some work in trio with Lovano and Motian
> (labelled as
> Motian), Does anybody know what is it like?
It's great, a must-have for Frisell fans. Pure music.
Little self-promotion: check out my discography of Bill Frisell at
www.emd.pl . There is a Motian-Frisell section, in fact, it's quite
big. Because their records were mostly published by JMT (which is
gone?), they are not available for some time. Really, great jazz.
__________________________________________________________________
Artur Nowak [arno at emd dot pl] www.emd.pl
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 11:05:29 -0500
From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com
Subject: ribot redux
yeah, the frantz casseus disc is really nice, but so unlike his usual style that
i left it out. i'm surprisd i forgot to mention the bar khoba discs, tho. he
shines, and they're so beautifully recorded.
the young philadelphians (who haven't recorded) don't do much for me, however.
i'll spare the list my antitacuma railings and just say i'm not drawn in.
np - ENON:believo!
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 11:31:42 -0500
From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com
Subject: ribot revised
>>>Ribot is not involved in Swordfish Trombones, but ...
..but of course. my so-called memory...
>>>Tricky - Angels With Dirty Faces (1998): Trip Hop
speaking of, anyone at the tricky show at central park last night? freakin
hilarious if you ask me, if not exactly good in any conventional sense of the
word.
it was a night of writings by and about prisoners, tricky being involved for his
disc "product of the environment" (i believe that's the title), which uses
british gangsters on the vocal tracks. after a long reading by the quite good,
quite out-of-place author luc sante, tricky walked out with one of his brit
bangers, dave courtney. after the two made it very clear they had no idea what
they were going to do, tricky let courtney tell stories about himself and the
cops for about 10 minutes. kinda funny, very full of himself. then tricky
interrupted and said to the audience "you were expecting a set, weren't you? can
anyone out there do beat box?" a young guy finally made his way up to the stage,
did quite a good job laying down a groove while tricky rapped over it. then he
and courtney rambled some more and said goodnight. 20, maybe 25 minutes.
a summerstage worker came out and said that dj state of bengal would do a second
set to fill the evening, but then said tricky wouldn't come out unless the
audience let him know they wanted him. it wasn't a roar for an encore, but t
came back out and said "they told me i'm supposed to do a fucking hour. where's
that beatbox kid?" he did another rhyme with some annoying woman from the
audience moaning into a microphone, then, laughing, said "this is bullshit.
goodnight."
most fun i've had since the 25-minute aerosmith show i saw in 1985. i expect
there'll be a lawsuit or something.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 18:11:03 -0400
From: Rich Williams <punkjazz@snet.net>
Subject: Re: U.S. Customs
>their concerns have always been protectionist and isolationist in
>the sense that artists requesting work permits and/or visas have to
>show that what they do couldn't be done by a US citizen. This may
>be understandable in the case of straightforward, ordinary jobs, but
>in the case of artists, they usually want to see reviews in major
>press, evidence of international reputation (again on a major
>institutional level), etc. Providing materials that seem acceptable
>is always problematic, cause the things that WE might think of as
>being suitable evidence of "mainstream acceptance" is often well
>below the radar of the people who make these decisions. These are
>people for whom, say, the Wire or the Village Voice are little more
>than fanzines.
That's what happened in the mid 80's when we attempted to
book a small US tour for Last Exit. It was just after a new
immigration "reform" law had been passed, and all of a sudden. Peter
Brotzman, who had never had any trouble working in the US previously,
was detained at the airport. If it wasn't for the herculean efforts
of NY attorney Larry Stanley, he would have been sent home, and I
can only imagine the stunned reaction of the bureaucrats who had to
determine Brotz's "mainstream acceptance" level's.
Speaking of which, whatever happened to Mr. Stanley and his
wife Hope Carr? They were a wonderful and generous NY couple who were
really integral to the whole NY scene, providing legal
services(Laswell, Sharrock), promoting concerts(Zorn), managing
artists (Wm Breuker Kollektief), and generally making things
happen(for which they were sometimes rewarded by being woken up to
the sound of Brotzman practicing Ben Webster licks......No really!)
RW
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 15:11:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: "m. rizzi" <rizzi@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: UFO or Die
>If I keep it straight, UFO or Die existed in earnest in the early 90s when
>most of the band lived in NYC.
Really, as far as I know Yamastuka Eye
never lived in New York...he's a pretty
serious Osaka kind of guy.
rizzi
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 15:13:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: "m. rizzi" <rizzi@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Funk
>Rhino's "In Yo Face" series 1/2 to 5 will rock any number of parties.
I'll second this recommend. A fun series and
a great starting point for delving into other
artists.
rizzi
rizzi@netcom.com -------------------------------------- www.browbeat.com
"Another nerd with a soulpatch"
- -------- browbeat magazine, po box 11124, oakland, ca 94611-1124 -------
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 15:19:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: "m. rizzi" <rizzi@netcom.com>
Subject: Kristallnacht (was Re: Ribot inquiry)
>But on the other hand, this album also contains some of his most aimless
>experiments ("Never Again").
That is one powerful motherfucking track,
aimless is not the word I would use. I
dig it, immensely, repeatedly.
rizzi
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 20:36:17 -0400
From: "H." <h@weirdness.com>
Subject: Re: U.S. Customs
Being in Canada, I see this sort of thing alot!
This is the second time in July alone that this exact problem has come
up...paperwork fuck-ups!
EBM regrets to inform all those involved that the Industrial Overdose Tour
concert date:
Toronto, CAN July 22,2000 at the Kathedral Concert hall is CANCELLED.
EBM has done everything in their power to circumvent this cancellation
but
all options have failed. Due to incomplete, incorrectly filed US
paperwork
cancellation is necessary to preserve the 2nd leg of the
NOISEX/HYPNOSKULL/TUNNEL tour in the US.
We would like to thank all the DJs, promoters,booking agents,
artists/labels
and supporters that helped in trying to make the Toronto concert date
for
Industrial Overdose a sucess.
To all those that have ticket giveaways/promotions, please cancel these
and
return or destroy tickets. To all those that posted this toronto concert
announcement on websites please update your site. All individuals
involved
in these promotions will be notified directly.
EBM acknowledges all advanced sales and will honour valid tickets
(excluding
promotion giveaways) for refunds in Canadian or US funds. Please follow
cancellation policy on back side of ticket. DO NOT GO TO STORE OR
VENDOR
FOR REFUNDS.
for further information about refunds/cancellation policy contact:
ebm@ciut.fm
thanks for you time.
sophia varadan. EBM.
out
H
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 19:47:07 PDT
From: "William York" <william_york@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #991
>the popular sentiment is that ribot is better as a sideman than as a
>leader.
>there's some truth to that. i first fell in love with the waits records
>(swordfish trombones, rain dogs), which are still some of the best things
>he's
>been involved in, at least if you like tom waits.
Right, I agree about Rain Dogs, but I'm pretty sure he's not on
Swordfishtrombones, I think Rain Dogs was the first one.
>>Just the one with Han Bennink which is fine (and a good example of
>"hearing and not seeing" Han do his thing. But I have to become wealthy
>to afford (m)any hat arts.
I wasn't too big on this, especially since they seemed like they would be
such a good pair. they both have straight-ahead aspects to their playing,
and while I wasn't expecting straight-ahead jazz here, this disc has a
combative, disruptive feel to it that's something I enjoy live more than on
a disc -- especially an $18 one.
One with Eskelin that I do like is Gerry Hemingway's Johnny's Corner Song,
which never seems to get mentioned anywhere for some reason. There's some
really well written stuff on that, including Mark Helias' ballad "Gentle
Ben," which might be a "standard" if such things ever occured in new jazz.
WY
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 10:43:39 +0200 (CEST)
From: Oger <oger@worldnet.fr>
Subject: Re: soprano sax players
>
>Hello List,
>
> I need more recommendations from you guys:
>
>I'm looking for Soprano Sax players. Anything you recommend: free, bop,
>hard bop, avantgarde, whatever!!!!!
>
>Thanks in advance
>
>Neil H. Enet
And don't forget to listen to Michel Doneda and Urs Leimgruber.
(Sorry for late reply)
Jacques Oger
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 16:31:47 +0200
From: "Artur Nowak" <arno@emd.pl>
Subject: Satellite radio
Hi Philozorners,
I'd like to ask you about your experience with sattelite radio. I get
more an more live shows recorded from satellite broadcast, it seems to
me, that there is more and more music available "in the air". I live
in Poland, so this question is addressed rather to europeans. What are
the best satellites? What are the best radio stations? I'll appreciate
any comments. Since this group has many european members, this topic
may be worth public discussion.
Regards
__________________________________________________________________
Artur Nowak [arno at emd dot pl] www.emd.pl
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2000 17:16:21 +0200
From: Fritz Feger <Fritz.Feger@talknet.de>
Subject: Re: Odp: Kristallnacht
William Crump wrote:
Now we've reached the reason I don't listen to Kristallnacht very often --
"Never Again" makes my head split, and I feel too guilty listening to just the
other tracks, because it seems to undermine the composer's intent.
It seems to me there's a difference between understanding and perhaps
applauding the idea behind "Never Again" and actually listening to it,
especially more than one time. If I'm in a guilty mood anyway, "Never
Again" beautifully contributes to it.
Joking apart: Even if, as Haden says, "music is always political", and Zorn
makes "us think on what we do when we decide to 'just relax and listen to
some music'" (Marcin Gokieli wrote that), and Zorn shows us that it is
naive not to consider this aspect of any choice on the music we listen to,
it is naive as well to believe that you can, at the margin, do missionary
work with music. If there is no fundamental affirmation to both sound and
message, people won't listen. This is in particular so if, as with "Never
again", the listener is not superficially attracted by something and then
surprised by something else he wouldn't have listened to otherwise.
Fritz Feger.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2000 17:36:40 +0200
From: Fritz Feger <Fritz.Feger@talknet.de>
Subject: Frisell's "Sweetest Punch" (was: re: Frisell & Eskelin)
James Graves wrote:
>What do people think of Frisell's "Sweetest Punch" anyway? I love that
>record, but I also love the Bacharach/Costello record with the same tunes:
>Painted from Memory. IMHO it is some of Frisell's best work to date, more
>of that gorgeous arranging that makes Quartet so good. Wonder why Brian
>Blade plays drums instead of Kenny?
For me, "Sweetest Punch" is a little bit stiff compared to his quartet
works. I don't think the Painted from Memory songs do very well for
Frisells sound; I like the original recordings better. Maybe I miss the
archaic colors of the quartet compositions.
Some postings ago Frisell and his Country side was a topic. I'm currently
listening to Luke Vibert / BJ Coles STOP THE PANIC. It could be of interest
for those of you which are into this kind of stuff. Luke Vibert did those
incredible "Plug" d'n'b records, and BJ Cole seems to be a steel guitar
hero (never heard of him though), and large portions of the record happen
between these poles. Sometimes it even gets noisy! I kind of like it, even
if many things sound temporary or, to quote the liner notes, "cheesy".
Fritz Feger.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 19:07:29 +0200
From: "Marcin Gokieli" <marcingokieli@go2.pl>
Subject: Bang On a Can
I recently re-listened to bang on a can's 'cheating lying stealing'm, and
found it quite intersting ( i bought it at the BOC show at 'warsaw automn'
fest. It was incredible, largely thanks to the incredible acoustics of
'lutoslawski studio' in Warsaw, that enabled a superb performance.
unfortunately, the mfers who are running the hall show no interest in
promoting new music of any kind. I am not fully enhousiast about that
release - I don't know why, exactly - but the thing interested me. What are
the other albums like (I know the eno album, 'music for airports', whichj is
really incredible. Seriously recommended) ? and what is that band, where do
they come from? Ziopyryn, their clarinette player is pretty amazing (as well
as all the other musicians, in fact).
Marcin Gokieli
marcingokieli@go2.pl
<<Thanks to this excellent device
man shall reenter paradise.>>
Auden & Kallman, Stravinsky's "The Rake's Progress"
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2000 13:15:21 -0400
From: Brian Olewnick <olewnik@idt.net>
Subject: Re: Bang On a Can
Marcin Gokieli wrote:
> What are
> the other albums like
The first one is pretty enjoyable, and well worth getting if only for
Robert Black's performance of Tom Johnson's "Failing: A Very Difficult
Piece for String Bass", a classic. Black's a fine player.
> and what is that band, where do
> they come from? Ziopyryn, their clarinette player is pretty amazing
Ziporn's "Animal Act", also on CRI, isn't bad either.
When I've seen them in performance, they've been inconsistent, though
most of that has been for choice of their own material, which gets,
imho, over-promoted during their marathons. Michael Gordon has the habit
of stretching five minutes worth of good ideas over almost an hour.
What happened to this year's NYC marathon?
Brian Olewnick
NP: Guy, Gustaffson, Strid - You Forget to Answer
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V2 #993
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