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2000-03-07
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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #881
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Wednesday, March 8 2000 Volume 02 : Number 881
In this issue:
-
solo bassists records
claps'n'solos
Re: standing ovations
Odp: dave douglas sextet (plus clapping and drummers)
jim black
Re: jim black
Cooper-Moore
Re: Recent Goodies
RE: Recent Goodies
encores
Orch Morphine
Re: jim black
Henry Hills
Re: Recent Goodies
RE: jim black
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 17:28:45 -0500
From: Fritz Senn <eso200@is5.nyu.edu>
Subject: solo bassists records
Before this discussion passes away, I have a quick question.
I have this Barre Phillips record, "Journal Violone" (Opus One), from 1968,
and I've always wondered if this was the first jazz record of unaccompanied
bass to come out(?). I've not been able to find anything earlier...
I too have trouble listening to solo bassists, but I have a few records
with 4 bassists jamming away and they're pretty listenable: Phillips' "For
All It Is" (with Stu Martin), Peter Warren's "Bass Is" (the second side has
Surman, Stu Martin, and some other guys).
Fritz on Truesday.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 17:33:32 -0500
From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com
Subject: claps'n'solos
"...I want to feel free to respond to the music, while considering that there
are in fact others listening around me," said Scott Handley.
Fine by me. The difference is that it's easy to tell when someone is or is not
moved to respond. I hate it when people talk during performances, but I actually
like it when someone says back to the performer "all right, Joe" "Yeah" or
"Damn" or some such. The point is, you're communicating with the musician in a
sincere way. But when people make a racket banging their hands together because
they've learned it's the time they're supposed to do that, it's only slightly
less annoying to me than people talking during the show.
In other words, at the Brecht Forum (where I book shows) I'll quietly ask people
to step to the back of the room if they're going to talk. But I've been asked to
quiet someone who was loudly showing her love of the playing, and I told the
requester that they could, but I wouldn't.
For what it's worth, it seems Chicago audiences talk back and lot more than New
York ones do.
(btw, scott, i believe we have a friend in common...)
kg
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 16:33:35 -0600 (CST)
From: Tom Benton <rancor@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: Re: standing ovations
Dan Hewins wrote -
> I do find the encore protocol a bit amusing at large shows. It's as
> if the encore will always happen and that the band has to walk off
> the stage and wait the required 2-3 minutes then jog back on stage
> waving and mouthing "thank you." It might be funny if a band
> finished the "set" then says, "that was the end of the show and the
> next few songs are the encore. We don't want you to have to clap to
> an empty stage for five minutes."
Funny that someone has already mentioned Orchestra Morphine - about four
years ago I saw Morphine in a club here in Austin, the place was packed
beyond capacity, the crowd was going completely insane. The band
introduced their last tune, rocked out, and rather than leaving the stage,
Sandman and Colley each took about three steps back, just out of the
main lights. They stood there a minute or two as the applause ramped up
from figuratively to literally deafening. Finally Sandman (who I maintain
might have been one of the few people in rock&roll possessed of the
effortless, impenetrable cool necessary to really pull this off) stepped
up to the mic and said "You know, people have told us we don't play very
long sets. But there's one thing you can count on: a lot of encores."
He wasn't joking...the above routine repeated itself several times for
quite a while as I recall.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 10:17:10 +0100
From: "Marcin Gokieli" <marcing@mospan.pl>
Subject: Odp: dave douglas sextet (plus clapping and drummers)
It is not that I am against drummers, but I do think it is a shame that so
many bands have one. I mean, playing with drummer makes (not always, of
course) rythm quite rigid ( and again it is not a bad thing - i mean that i
is a shame that it happens so frequently). And the practice of 20-minutes
drum solos (a kind of "so ok, you did not have solos during the entire show,
now you can show what you can do") on everey 'jazz' concert is
unsupportable - especially when the drummers insist on showin what an
incredible amount of technique and speed he has (it happens quite often -
drummers tend to be very technical musicians). Of course there are wonderful
drummers, wonderful drum solos...
> It's more about the drummers. I think there are very few drummers
> who can take a meaningful solo. I think Jowy Baron is one of them.
>The only other drummers that I know of who really
> can move me during a drum solo are Jim Black and Max Roach. Any
> thoughts on this?
Joey's incredible. Other great soloist is Roy Haynes (see
Metheny/Holland/Haynes "q&a" - one of the best jazz albums - and the guy was
about 80 years old when he recorded it!). Bobby Previte plays great solos -
not to long, very intellligent and melodic. But the drummer's drummer is
Tony Williams - his playing with davis's quintet is incredible ('filles de
kilimanjaro'...what a thing).
Concerning Joey: does anyone see connections between his style and the drums
written by Stravinsky in 'L'histoire du Soldat'? I do believe that he was
very inspired by these drums, there is an ironic element strongly present in
his playing. Anyhow, it is an incredible piece, one of the most important
pieces of 20th century music...
Have fun,
Marcin Gokieli
"Oh Nick, I had the strangest dream!
I thought - how could I know what I was never taught?"
Stravinsky/Auden "The Rake's Progress"
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 18:05:27 -0600
From: neongreen7 <neongreen7@prodigy.net>
Subject: jim black
what's a good recording to start with that has jim black on drums?
i love the new dave douglas cd, so maybe i should start with a DD cd with
jim on it.
any thoughts or suggestions?
how about han bennink recordings that are "must haves"?
craig
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 19:19:11 -0500
From: "ADM" <adm226@is9.nyu.edu>
Subject: Re: jim black
How about Pachora's Unn?
- -Aaron
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "neongreen7" <neongreen7@prodigy.net>
To: <zorn-list@lists.xmission.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2000 7:05 PM
Subject: jim black
> what's a good recording to start with that has jim black on drums?
> i love the new dave douglas cd, so maybe i should start with a DD cd with
> jim on it.
> any thoughts or suggestions?
>
> how about han bennink recordings that are "must haves"?
>
> craig
>
>
> -
>
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 20:23:16 -0500
From: Matt Teichman <mft4@cornell.edu>
Subject: Cooper-Moore
Does anyone have any background info on this Cooper-Moore character that
plays with William Parker/In Order to Survive? He's AMAZING!
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 22:13:46 -0500
From: Brian Olewnick <olewnik@idt.net>
Subject: Re: Recent Goodies
Linares Hugo wrote:
> C'mon guys, come back with reviews!
Well, most of the things I've acquired recently aren't brand new, but in
order to forestall any possibility of Hugo losing it and attempting to
retake the Falklands:
AMM The Crypt Matchless
From 1968, during their noisier period. What to say except that I think
most unsuspecting Blindfold testees would easily believe that this
could've been recorded last year and would _still_ be considered
cutting-edge or what have you. Amazing that it was done so long ago,
done without any telltale traces of jazz influence that marks virtually
all free-improv from the period. I had forgotten that Christopher Hobbs
was in the group at this time; his work here is certainly in contrast to
his pieces recorded a few years later for the Obscure label. I think
I've asked this before, but if anyone knows of any currently available
Hobbs on disc, please clue me in. The final 18 minute track here (not
included on the original vinyl, I believe) seems to point towards the
quieter, sparser tack AMM would take later in its lifetime. Highly
recommended.
Thomas Brinkmann Concept 1 96:VR Minus
This latest buying splurge was partially curated by Tom Pratt and this
disc he virtually forced into my hands. While I'm not so high on it as
he is, I'm glad to have heard it. From what I understand (correct me if
I'm wrong), Brinkmann approaches vinyl mutilation as a craft and
hand-tools his source material to the precise level/amount of clicks,
scratches etc. he desires. He also utilizes Reichian phasing techniques,
gradually introducing, for example, a set of clicks at one rhythm over
scratches at another, generally keeping three or four levels going at a
time. All well and good. The problem arises when his rhythms are simply
not very interesting, as occurs on the majority of tracks here. Except
for the first and last pieces, which work very well, we're left with
fascinating and unusual sounds in search of a solid base.
John Fahey Requia Vanguard
Recorded in 1967, an interesting half and half deal. What was side 1
consists of three "standard" Fahey pieces, which is to say gorgeous solo
acoustic guitar working through Americana, folk and blues themes. On
"Side 2", his 'Requiem for Molly' makes extreme use of taped sounds,
playing guitar behind and through them. It's an awkward mix--the sound
sources for the tapes strike one in hindsight as cliched ("Deutchsland
Uber Alles", a baby crying, screams, gunfire)
and the guitar doesn't seem to have anything pertinent to add or accent.
Interesting, though, that a supposed "folkie" was doing this at the time
and pointing towards his much later, far more successful efforts in this
vein ('Womblife'), but otherwise unsatisfying. Worth it for Side 1!
Bernard Gunter Un Peu de Neige Salie Table of Elements
Very tough to describe. Rude electronic sounds, generally very quiet,
sometimes sounding like your amp's shorted out, many ultra-high
frequency sine waves. One is never sure if you're hearing the disc or
the waves sent out by your stereo equipment. Gunter forces you to listen
extremely closely and succeeds in creating a unique sound-world. He
admires Feldman; if you can imagine Feldman's spatial sensitivity shorn
of almost all melodic content, you're nearing Gunter territory.
Recommended, but be forewarned: Guaranteed to force one's spouse from
the room.
I.S.O. I.S.O. Alcohol
Similar to the above...but entirely different in a way that's tough to
explain. Perhaps simply that, while utilizing similar sound sources and
general approaches, I.S.O.'s personality is not Gunter's so their
"conversation" flows differently. A little more use of rhythm (though
apparently tracked to that of the turntable or disc player), a few more
"musical" sounds. Whatever, it's quite beautiful and ranks, imo, with
Yoshihide's best work.
Thomas Lehn/Gerry Hemingway Tom & Gerry Erstwhile
A few folk here have already commented a good bit on Jon's latest
production. I'll just chime in to say it's a wonderful session, superb
and sensitive free improv. Ranges betwen ultra-soft and raging
maelstroms and rarely fails to hit home.
Terry Riley Music for The Gift/Mescalin Mix Organ of Corti
Often astonishing series of tape pieces from 1960-65. If, like me,
you've pretty much given up on any Riley after 1975 or so (when he
drifted perilously close to newagism, imho), you owe it to yourself to
check this out. Music for the Gift uses a small jazz combo led by, I'm
not kidding, Chet Baker, playing in a muted, Milesian mode. Riley loops
the precedure and subjects it to various other transformations;
interesting, but not essential. 'Bird of Paradise' and 'Mescalin Mix',
however, are both amazing. The former is much more aggresive (even
violent) than what we've come to expect from Riley, often sounding a lot
like Carl Stone's work from the 80's. The last piece comes _this close_
to a work of proto dub-funk! 'Mescalin Mix', from 1960-62 prefigures
work like Eno's 'On Land' with incredible accuracy and is lovely and
seductive in and of itself. Highly recommended both for historical
reasons and for the music.
Frederic Rzewski The People United... New Albion
This is the version by Steve Drury, recorded in 1992. 'The People
United...' remains one of my single favorite pieces of music ever and
Mr. Drury acquits himself wonderfully here. If I prefer the hat ART
version with Rzewski playing, it's only for the composer's sheer
strength and incisive attack which is hard to compete with. As that
recording is almost impossible to find nowadays, Drury's version easily
compares with the original performance by Ursula Oppens and even outdoes
hers in sensitivity and concentration on the wistfully romantic mood
that permeates the piece. This disc begins (presumably on the suggestion
of Drury) most effectively with a recording of the original song
performed by Quilapayun before a seriously enthusiastic crowd in Chile.
I've yet to hear the recordings by Takahashi or...a Dutch pianist whose
name I can't recall, but if you haven't heard this yet, this one's a
beautiful place to start. Great job, Mr. Drury.
Rafel Toral Aeriola Frequency Perdition Plastics
In two long pieces (46 and 20 minutes), Toral concentrates on washes of
electronic overtones, alternately harsh and soothing, layer upon layer,
with very occasional, hardly-there rhythmic pulses. As with the Gunter
and I.S.O. recordings, he successfully creates a sonic landscape that's
at once alien and highly convincing, where one is content to observe and
appreciate the seemingly random goings on. Probably simlar to sitting
with your back against a huge electric generator and digging the groove
therein.
All for now,
Brian Olewnick
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 01:07:31 -0300
From: "Hugo Linares" <hlinares@utenet.com.ar>
Subject: RE: Recent Goodies
>Linares Hugo wrote:
>
>> C'mon guys, come back with reviews!
>
>Well, most of the things I've acquired recently aren't brand new, but in
>order to forestall any possibility of Hugo losing it and attempting to
>retake the Falklands:
>All for now,
>
>Brian Olewnick
>
Bravo Brian! Bravo!
The engine started again...
Thank you.
Hugo Linares
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 02:45:17 EST
From: XRedbirdxx@aol.com
Subject: encores
<< It might be funny if a band
finished the "set" then says, "that was the end of the show and the
next few songs are the encore. We don't want you to have to clap to
an empty stage for five minutes." >>
exactly what Dick Dale does.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 02:59:20 EST
From: XRedbirdxx@aol.com
Subject: Orch Morphine
<< I was covering the Orchestra Morphine show at the Trocadero here in
Philadelphia on Saturday >>
Any association here at all with Morphine, as in the late Mark Sandman's
group??
And sorry for mentioning Dick Dale before reading the whole digest,
Joseph
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 09:22:05 GMT+0100
From: "Jeroen de Boer" <Usva-Th2@bureau.rug.nl>
Subject: Re: jim black
Try any album of the Tiny Bell Trio (Douglas, Shepik and Black). My
personal favourite is 'Songs for Wandering Souls' (Winter & Winter).
Jeroen
> > what's a good recording to start with that has jim black on drums?
> > i love the new dave douglas cd, so maybe i should start with a DD cd with
> > jim on it.
> > any thoughts or suggestions?
- ----------------------------------------
Jeroen de Boer
co-initiator Cyberslag Foundation
music director Open Electronic Festival
Munnekeholm 10
9711JA Groningen
The Netherlands
tel: 031 (0)503637513
fax: 031 (0)503632209
J.T.de.Boer@let.rug.nl
usva-th2@bureau.rug.nl
http://www.cyberslag.com
- ----------------------------------------
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 10:54:36 GMT+0100
From: "Jeroen de Boer" <Usva-Th2@bureau.rug.nl>
Subject: Henry Hills
Next week a program of films by Henry Hills is presented in three
cities in The Netherlands, including my hometown. So for everyone in
or near Holland, go see "Introducing Henry Hills, featuring John
Zorn". Hills will be present at all the screenings.
Part I
George
Porter Springs 3
Kino Da!
SSS
Gowah Lawah
Little Lieutenant
Porter Springs 4
Part II
John Zorn related stuff
Gotham
Osaka Bondage
Money
Heretic
Mechanics of the Brain
Igneous Ejaculation
Friday, March 10, 21.30
Cinema De Balie, Amsterdam
Monday, March 13, 21.30
Nighttown, Rotterdam
Tuesday, March 14, 21.00
Vera Zienema, Groningen
More info @ http://www.henryhills.com/
Jeroen
np: schizotrope, the Richard Pinhas & Maurice Dantec Schizospheric
Experience - Le Plan (Sub Rosa SR169)
- ----------------------------------------
Jeroen de Boer
co-initiator Cyberslag Foundation
music director Open Electronic Festival
Munnekeholm 10
9711JA Groningen
The Netherlands
tel: 031 (0)503637513
fax: 031 (0)503632209
J.T.de.Boer@let.rug.nl
usva-th2@bureau.rug.nl
http://www.cyberslag.com
- ----------------------------------------
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 07:40:39 -0500
From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <cdeupree@erinet.com>
Subject: Re: Recent Goodies
At 10:13 PM 3/7/00 -0500, Brian Olewnick wrote:
>
>Frederic Rzewski The People United... New Albion
>
>This is the version by Steve Drury, recorded in 1992. 'The People
>United...' remains one of my single favorite pieces of music ever and
>Mr. Drury acquits himself wonderfully here. If I prefer the hat ART
>version with Rzewski playing, it's only for the composer's sheer
>strength and incisive attack which is hard to compete with.
This is one of my favorite contemporary piano pieces too, and I consider
myself fortunate to have heard Rzewski perform it live once. He permits a
section of improv between the last set of variations and the finale, and on
his Hat recording he takes this opportunity (part 7 on the track listings),
whereas Ursula Oppens omits this section. Is there an improv section on
this recording?
- --
Caleb Deupree
cdeupree@erinet.com
It is pretty obvious that the debasement of the human mind caused by a
constant flow of fraudulent advertising is no trivial thing. There is more
than one way to conquer a country.
- -- Raymond Chandler
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 10:40:41 -0300
From: Linares Hugo <hulinare@bemberg.com.ar>
Subject: RE: jim black
> Try any album of the Tiny Bell Trio (Douglas, Shepik and Black). My
> personal favourite is 'Songs for Wandering Souls' (Winter & Winter).
>
You'd try Tiny Bell Trio's "Live in Europe" (Arabesque Jazz, 1997):
there you can also listen to an incredible track called "Bardot" (kind of
actress Brigitte Bardot's tribute?) where Douglas' blowing is truly amazing
and Black shines as well.
Hugo Linares
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V2 #881
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