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Zorn List Digest       Wednesday, March 1 2000       Volume 02 : Number 870



In this issue:
-
       Re: how it happened
       the "great jewish music: chaim witz" thread, back from the dead
       Re: how it happened
       RE: No girls allowed
       Re:mp3s/no girls/how'd it happen
       Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #869
       Re: No girls allowed
       Re: No girls allowed
       Girly Men/How the Hell
       Re: How It Happened
       Odp: How It Happened
       more fz help.
       Re: How did it happen?
       no girls allowed
       Re: no girls allowed
       Ray Russell
       Re: more on "the girl issue"

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 22:18:57 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: how it happened

In a message dated 2/29/00 8:32:22 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< my top 5 fz: uncle meat, weasels, weeny, lather & civilization phaze III.
>>

I've been a bit surprised here. No one other than me has a soft spot for The
Grand Wazoo and/or Waka Jawaka?

Dale.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 19:31:03 -0800
From: "Benito Vergara" <[e-mail]>
Subject: the "great jewish music: chaim witz" thread, back from the dead

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [e-mail]
> [mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of Steve Smith
> Sent: Monday, February 28, 2000 5:15 PM

> Time for Uncle Steve to haul out the tired old Kiss story again?

I feel suddenly compelled to haul out the tired old "Great Jewish Music:
Chaim Witz" thread again as well. (Yes, I know, it's only been a few months
since the last time.) Someone here *must* have Zorn's ear. I think those
Zornlisters who do should devote their collective energies to this project.
Since I am not worthy, and can only listen from afar, I humbly pledge my
support anyway.

Later,
Ben

http://www.bigfoot.com/~bvergara/
ICQ# 12832406


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 22:55:22 -0600
From: Craig Rath <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: how it happened

At 10:18 PM 2/29/00 EST, you wrote:
>
>I've been a bit surprised here. No one other than me has a soft spot for The
>Grand Wazoo and/or Waka Jawaka?
>

Actually, two of the most often played of his discs in my household.  I
tend to listen to it all, but really relate to the early 70's stuff.




- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 23:59:24 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: RE: No girls allowed

In a message dated Tue, 29 Feb 2000  6:26:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, "Jeni Dahmus" <[e-mail]> writes:

> > This same question pops up on RMP every other month.  I
> > continue to say that it's because 99.99% of the music is
> > non-danceable, but I've been told that was wrong.  Yet I've
> > still not heard a better reason...
>
> The music is danceable.  Go to any modern dance concert and you are bound to
> see a piece choreographed to avant music.  It is true that the movement will
> probably differ from typical club style.  Dance improv is included in the
> Vision Fest schedule that was just posted today.
>
> Jeni
> (a biased modern dance fan)
>
>
> -

Sorry I didn't make myself clear in that respect.  Thanks for doing that!

- --
=dg=

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 21:23:42 -0800
From: "Adrienne Alexander" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re:mp3s/no girls/how'd it happen

howdy,
    Okay i know the mp3s issue is a little old but I think as long as the
files are of live shows (not the masada songbook thing, that makes my
stomach turn) I would be very interested.  Over here on the west coast, not
a lot of good shows come through here (Portland) and when they do I"m too
young to see them anyway.  Time will cure that but at least listening to
something live (that is not already on cd) helps.

no girls..someone previously said something about girls not being pushed in
doing something creative, something noisy and outside the norm with
creativity makes more sense. I play viola in a string orch in college,
there are probably 4 guys out of 30 girls.  In jazz band there are 4 girls
out of 30 guys and I am the only girl in jazz improv (20 guys) let alone
the only string player.  Part is media and part is simply brain
chemistry.men and women react differently in situations.  a lot of women i
know simply don't want to draw attention to themselves that could
potentially be embarassing.
at least this is how I percieve it.

how'd it happen: grew up in a very small town in the NW that was very
isolated.  There were a lot of loggers that were bikers. Grew up a rocker
(sabbath,metallica, faith no more, megadeth) and moved to P-land for
college. I met a man named Jim after a year and a half in the music dept.
We talked an he offered to help me move (?!!) and he wasked me over to have
dinner later in the week.  He played Zorn's "Absynthe" I thought it was the
most beautiful thing I"d ever heard (aside from Berlioz's Symphonie
Fansatique).  Jim is now my fiancee.
pretty cheesy

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 20:23:11 -0800
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #869

i love all yall all the more cuz of where it comes from. but rick lopez
is my hero...

[e-mail] writes:
>MWM, dark hair, scub-cut, Italian, cooks *good*, all limbs intact, drums
>since 3 1/2-- started out during grade school living in my momma's
>record
>player: Harry Belafonte LIVE AT CARNEGIE HALL; Monk; Brubeck;
>Prokofiev's
>Pete & Woof over and over again; "My heart goes where the Wild Goose
>goes..."; soundtrack to HATARI over and over again; Kenton's CUBAN FIRE;
>Blakey; later finding on my own the Beatles, Hendrix, St. James
>Infirmary,...
and if you didn't read the rest of this, you should....

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 20:56:20 -0700
From: Dan Given <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: No girls allowed

I have this discussion with my wife constantly -- whenever I am raving
about some great new music I have heard, or even more often when an
obsession kicks in and I decide I need to add to the Evan Parker or Braxton
collection.  I, the male of the family, am a fanatical music listener and
collector. She, the female, really could care less if there was music in
our house, and would be happy with just radio as background noise (and
doesn't understand why I would want a CD player in the car.

However, she loves live performances of free jazz and improv, and is
usually as interested as I am in attending.  But it has to be something
that is visually interesting to watch -- a show with interesting
interaction among the players, or someone who does interesting things with
their instrument, etc.  Just good music isn't enough.

Her explanation for this -- women have more active brains, and require more
than one form of stimulation. Just sound isn't enough, she needs a
multi-media experience.  I'm sure there is an interesting connection to
McLuhan's hot and cold media concept here somewhere.

Dan



- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 22:12:38 -0800
From: "s~Z" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: No girls allowed

My wife wants to know if Dan Given's wife would like to go out for coffee.
And, sure, she'd like to double date the next time Cecil comes to town.

s~Z


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 00:26:25 -0700
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Girly Men/How the Hell

Oh god no, I really don't want to get into this - well maybe just a
little...

With all the talk of women into these strange musicks, I have to wonder
if there are many gay guys listening to or making this weird shit.
Don't want to "out" anybody - anybody still alive, anyway(isn't that the
proper etiquette?), but this isn't just a testosterone thing, is it?
Bet not.

Speaking for myself, I'd say no, huh-uh, not at all.  There, I've cast
my wrench.

By the by, while I'm at it, my first intro to all this started with
those double sampler albums that Warner/Reprise used to sell from their
inner sleeves, SongBook, Big Ball, etc.(at $1/disc, postpaid)  Their
"loss leaders" they called'em.  I had'em all, and they steered me
towards lots of cool not-quite-jazz stuff - Beefheart, Randy Newman, Van
Dyke Parks, Beaver & Krause, and I don't know what-all.

Also, I remember Verve was selling off all the first 7 or 8 Mothers
albums in the cutout bins around that time, '68 or '69.  And I actually
found the first Fugs album sticking out of the ground(pre-frisbee'ed out
of a top-floor window by an irate roommate?) in front of a college
dormitory across the street from my folks' house - I was 16 or so.  My
poor parents had to put up with a lot of what must have been pretty
scary music.

My first brush with jazz was Rashan Roland Kirk - mostly for me back
then it was the sheer novelty of two, two horns at once(or more!), but I
do remember liking it.

I didn't really get to jazz til the mid-'80's, when a friend of a friend
pulled out the 2nd and final "Madhouse" (Prince's excellent side
project) - I already had the first.  Anyway, this friend-of-a-friend had
much much more than that -  Naked City, Bungle, plus a big knowledge of
all the "standard" noise-avant-free-fusion guys, past & present, and I
haven't looked back since.

Spoiled, I no longer can stand most of what I hear on AM or FM radio,
except an esoteric show here or there.

Now I'm holding at least 50 Zorn or Zorn-related CDs, besides many of
the other names that crop up here, and I'm always hungry for more...

A total misfit, I no longer feel comfortable in the gay scene, the local
music scene, the Columbia Music Jazz Club or hardly any other scene,
except this list and a tiny wee circle of friends, but I've only myself
to blame - fortunately there's a certain joy in following your heart.

Dan


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 02:00:32 -0600
From: Craig Rath <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: How It Happened

What did it for me:

Late night in the high school newspaper office listening to Eno's Ambient
One.

This led me to want to pick up more of his work.  I next tried Here Come
the Warm Jets.  As you might imagine, I was a bit stunned that this was the
same guy.  But it was nevertheless an eye opener.  There was actually music
out there that no radio station in their right mind would play (except of
course for the odd college station).  Eno led to Fripp and a myriad of
other people.  Somewhere along the way I had the opportunity to co-host a
radio show at my college where the other host introduced me to "Alternative
Rock" (before such a thing became the norm).  He eventually made a mix tape
for me which included among other things, Big Star, XTC, the dB's, Pylon,
Game Theory, and something he got off of a CMP compilation - a little tune
called Batman by a guy named John Zorn.  Since I lived at the time in
small-town Minnesota, it took me a while to locate more of Zorn's work, but
from the minute I bought the self-titled Naked City album, I was hooked.
Even more of a revelation than my first Eno encounters.  Zorn led to the
Boredoms, then to Fushitsusha and Haino, and the wonderful world of
Japanese Noise and more.

Rather a long way from my very early days of Chuck Mangione and Herb Alpert
(my first album ever was "Feels so Good" by Mangione).  Luckily along the
way I gained an appreciation of the better "classical" works as well, which
led me to such wonders as Bartok, Penderecki, Ligeti, etc.  Like someone
else who wrote recently, I find it impossible to listen to the radio these
days.  The stereo in my car hasn't been tuned into a radio station in over
four years.

So I guess with me it was part luck and part willingness to take a risk on
new things which led to me being where I am musically.  It's always nice to
go into the local stores and see their faces as I actually purchase things
out of the "Unconventional" bin.  I can safely say that I am one of the
only people around who would have Bill Frisell, Pete Namlook & Klaus
Schulze, Dissecting Table, My Bloody Valentine, Genesis, and Gate all
together in the CD changer in the car.



- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 10:28:28 +0100
From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: How It Happened

I worte a longer story about how it hapened a while ago, but forgot the most
funny fact... my first contact with JZ's music.
    Zorn's has been in Poland with Masada in 1995. I could not attend the
show, although I heard that it is quite impressive (I must admit that even
if i had money i would have bought a ticket for ... DiMeola-Clarke - Ponty
at the same festival.)
A few months later, in September/October, with a few friends we decided to
have a little psychodelic evening and ate about 120 psylocibine mushrooms
each (which is quite a huge dose). We were sitting in the living room, and
waiting for the thing to begin. The TV was on with sound off, with some
stupid film. As we decided that the mushrooms begin to activate, we wanted
to turn the TV off to concentrate more on music (it was 'exposure', as i
suppose). At the very moment when i wanted to swith it off, i saw that there
is a drummer - maybe some concert? I told - 'hey let's see what is it" - it
was, of course the masada show (a terrific one, BTW).
Well... We wathed the entire thingm, being quite heavily stoned. It was not
only my first encounter with JZ, but with free jazz in general.
We were, to put it mildly, surprised.
When we watched the vid for the second time, a friend said that she thought
when she watched that most of this sound were here hallucinations...
be well, Marcin
"Oh Nick, I had the strangest dream!
I thought -  how could I know what I was never tought?"
Stravinsky/Auden "The Rake's Progress"


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 10:29:16 +0100
From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: more fz help.

> my top 5 fz: uncle meat, weasels, weeny, lather & civilization phaze III.
Can anybody tell me where can I buy 'civilization'? Preferably some european
on-line store (I'm from Poland).
> any of you heard the new one, 'everything is healing nicely', by the way?
> awesome.
What is it?
Marcin Gokieli




- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 17:22:07 -0500
From: Rich Williams <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: How did it happen?

>In a message dated 2/28/00 9:24:16 PM, [e-mail] writes:
>
><< In the interests of full disclosure, I'm forced to
>admit that my first triple LP was *ahem* "Tommy" >>
>
>just for clarity's sake, is this the film soundtrack version with Ann-Margret
>et. al. singing, or the version by the Who? I seem to recall the Who's
>version just being a double LP. the film soundtrack is way more embarrassing.

    Yes, but the film soundtrack does succeed as camp. William
Shatners Transformed man LP pales in comparison to Oliver Reed and
Jack Nicholson singing Pete Townsend. ;-)


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 08:32:21 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: no girls allowed

>> This same question pops up on RMP every other month.  I
>> continue to say that it's because 99.99% of the music is
>> non-danceable, but I've been told that was wrong.  Yet I've
>> still not heard a better reason...
>
>The music is danceable.  Go to any modern dance concert and you are bound to
>see a piece choreographed to avant music.

True. When I first met my wife, she used to attend many dance performances &
loved the music that was played, but never realized that this music had any
sort of "availability" or "profile" beyond dance performances. When I played
some stuff [remember, this was the early 80's] like Phillip Glass or Glenn
Branca for her, she liked it, as it was the stuff she had heard & liked at
dance performances.

Steve

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 09:13:00 -0500
From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: no girls allowed

On Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 08:32:21AM -0500, [e-mail] wrote:

> True. When I first met my wife, she used to attend many dance performances &
> loved the music that was played, but never realized that this music had any
> sort of "availability" or "profile" beyond dance performances. When I played
> some stuff [remember, this was the early 80's] like Phillip Glass or Glenn
> Branca for her, she liked it, as it was the stuff she had heard & liked at
> dance performances.

I useta have a friend back in NYC in the 80s, who was a fairly small
woman who did a lot of this kinda of dance. She disliked hearing this
music because it reminded her of being flung back and forth on stage :-)

- --
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| [e-mail]           http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Jerusaklyn                  http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music    Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 13:59:52 +0000
From: "Peter Marsh" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Ray Russell

Jesse wrote;

>As for the Ray Russell "story," the Moikai press release at Forced Exposure
>(http://www.forcedexposure.com/artists/russell.ray.html) offers some clues.
>I think he retreated back into session-player obscurity (I imagine it pays a
>bit better than overlooked free jazz icon).  One of the guys on Rites and
>Rituals did the Beverly Hills Cop soundtrack, and CDNOW showed a Ray Russell
>playing on some Cher records.  So who knows?  I guess late '60's/early '70's
>England *was* a weird time and place.

Back when the earths crust was still cooling I was given a copy of an album
called 'Rock Workshop' which was I think a cheapie issue on some major label
like Polydor Special or somesuch. It was an extremely odd album which
featured Ray Russell as musical director and a cast of thousands including
Alex Harvey of all people. There was a lot of free jazz honking and deranged
metal guitar and to my fourteen year old head this was serious stuff which I
couldn't get into...the album went missing years ago and is probably worth a
ridiculous amount of money. Anyhow, thanks for the recommendations on Rites
and Rituals...I shall hunt it down. Mr Russell has I believe composed a few
TV themes here in the UK, and these days plays (to these ears anyhow) fairly
obvious technoflash fusion withthe likes of Simon Phillips.

Cheers

Peter

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 14:58:19 +0100
From: patRice <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: more on "the girl issue"

margo red wrote:
>There's also the whole death metal thing.  That whole style is
> really male centered (and if you want to know more about gender
> constructions in heavy metal you can go read Robert Walsch).
> -Margo Red

it is amazing actually, how many girls you run into at death metal (and
all other forms of metal) gigs over here in europe. (though i can only
talk about austria and switzerland.)

and most of them not even dressed like your average "metal chick".
mainly all very well dressed, even in designer stuff!

that really still amazes me; and i think it's great!

patRice

- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V2 #870
*******************************


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