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Zorn List Digest      Saturday, January 22 2000      Volume 02 : Number 840



In this issue:
-
       Re: dave d & indie cool
       Re: Tim Berne - Quicksand
       Re: dave d & indie cool
       Re: masada t-shirts
       Re: Tim Berne - "Afternoon Tea"
       The Sign of Four
       Re: lovin' some lovens (and wittwer)
       Re: Bill Laswell's Jazzonia
       Re: dave d & indie cool
       New Henry Kaiser release
       Conjure on CD
       Joseph Holbrooke
       Taboo and Exile Photo
       Re: Taboo and Exile Photo
       Re: dave d & indie cool
       RE: Conjure on CD

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 16:37:36 -0500 (EST)
From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: dave d & indie cool

Big labels use "avant garde" acts as prestige loss-leaders. In his (ghost
written) autobiography Clive Davis bluntly says that Columbia (which he
then ran) had people like Ornette Coleman on the label so that year's
(week's) pop sensation could see that person's presence and figure "Hey
Columbia is hip, I'll sign with them."

Once the ag-ers usefulness is gone its out the window for them. Which CBS
did in, I think, 1975 when they defenestrated Bill Evans, Ornette and
Keith Jarett at the same time.

At the same time, if an a-g (and I'm using this as verbal shorthand)
artist is smart, he or she will just use the major to get distribution
for his latest project and perhaps some above poverty-level cash.

The best solution would for the major to merely distribute some tiny
label and get it into the far corners of North America and the world. It
works for pop music, why not "jazz/new music/ag/etc"?

Ken Waxman

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 16:16:23 -0500
From: James Hale <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Tim Berne - Quicksand

Ken Waxman wrote:
> I've rarely heard of Carter playing around recently, what
> ever happened to that particular young lion?

Don't know what he's doing with his own music, but he's on the upcoming
D.D. Jackson CD "Anthem" on RCA Victor.

James Hale

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 21:11:40 -0500
From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: dave d & indie cool

Ken Waxman wrote:

> Big labels use "avant garde" acts as prestige loss-leaders. In his (ghost
> written) autobiography Clive Davis bluntly says that Columbia (which he
> then ran) had people like Ornette Coleman on the label so that year's
> (week's) pop sensation could see that person's presence and figure "Hey
> Columbia is hip, I'll sign with them."

A very insightful point, and very accurate as regards the old ways of
thinking when bigger-than-life characters like Clive were the rule, not the
exception.  But I don't think this construct especially holds true anymore.
You don't find many majors who care as much about this sort of perception, I
don't think, or there would be a few more avant-gardists and even old-time
mainstreamers signed right now.  During this phase it appears to be "all
about the Benjamins," as someone recently said somewhere...

Referring again to the example of David S. Ware on Columbia (and I'm giving
away no state secrets here), the jazz department basically *knew* that there
was no chance DSW was going to sell a ton of records - Branford signed DSW
because A) Branford respects DSW and B) Branford was being willfully
provocative with his earliest signings when he assumed his A&R mantle.  And
therefore it was absolutely mandatory that Steven Joerg and I generate a ton
of press attention for the record so that the jazz department would have
something substantial to show those higher up.  That we were able to do that
is not any kind of testament to my "skills" as a publicist (although Steven
beats the bushes like no one else I've ever met - he's an agreeable zealot of
the highest order).  Rather, it's more down to the fact that lots and lots of
writers love DSW and when they were presented with a record by him on a major
it was much, much easier to get their editors to agree to give them column
inches.

Mind you, the DSW disc sold quite respectably (and better than numerous
mainstream releases from the same label during the same year), but probably
not so much more than the same exact recording might have sold if it were on
AUM but enjoyed distribution and advertising comparable to that which
Columbia could muster, which is more or less what Ken suggests later (and
we'll get to that in due time).

> Once the ag-ers usefulness is gone its out the window for them. Which CBS
> did in, I think, 1975 when they defenestrated Bill Evans, Ornette and
> Keith Jarett at the same time.

Yes, the infamous "Bad Day at Black Rock."  I think Mingus was also dropped
in that particular bloodbath.

> The best solution would for the major to merely distribute some tiny
> label and get it into the far corners of North America and the world. It
> works for pop music, why not "jazz/new music/ag/etc"?

But *does* it work even for pop music?  I can't imagine that Matador really
enjoyed its tenure with a major, and it didn't really seem to do much for
them in terms of status or sales, either.  Liz Phair has not become the
potty-mouthed sales equivalent of Sheryl Crow just yet.  (Parenthetically
speaking, there's a pretty damn fine article in this week's Village Voice on
the dire straits of the alt-rock scene at the majors and what one band did in
response to being dropped four months after their record was released by a
major - http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0003/joy.shtml).

While I can't think of many alternative rock bands that truly flourished
after passing from an indie to a major since Nirvana, although Sonic Youth
get points for longevity at least, since most of them seem to break up, pace
Husker Du - and please, don't make claims for Smashing Pumpkins or Hole -
neither can I think of an example in recent memory where an indie linked up
with a major and actually improved its lot by much or for long.

I do think the DIW/Columbia partnership was a good example of the potential
of what you suggest and some good records made it as far as the store in
which I worked on the outskirts of Houston ten years ago (whereas before that
DIW discs were mythological things I had to order from Cadence).  But it
didn't last because the people at Columbia left and were replaced and the new
regime presumably didn't care to inherit that particular deal.  Similarly,
the much-touted Knitting Factory Records/Columbia deal lasted for exactly one
record (and less than that if you ask Steven Bernstein, who basically got
fucked over, no matter how you look at it).  The JMT/Polygram deal ended in
tears and with the net result that ten years' worth of Tim Berne's career is
out of print and inaccessible even by the artist himself.  ECM has done far
better than most, but even they are now with their fourth major label
affiliation (fifth if you go back as far as the "Polygram Special Products"
days).

Still, such affilations are not without benefit: note that the Art Ensemble
of Chicago did not make a new record for Atlantic; they made a new record for
the French label Birdology, which was then licensed by Atlantic.  Same with
Ahmad Jamal, for that matter.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]
NP - Dave Douglas, "Mary's Idea," 'Soul on Soul'


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 18:13:56 -0800 (PST)
From: "m. rizzi" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: masada t-shirts

Jason Tors, demi-God and Icon sez:
>
>I was in downtown music gallery yesterday and they have maroon masada
>tshirts for sale.

    Funny that I'm wearing that shirt as
    I read about it on the zorn-list.
    Wonderful.
    mike


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 11:05:27 +1100
From: "Julian" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Tim Berne - "Afternoon Tea"

> Being the group's first performance, some of the changes were not as
> smooth as they could have been.  Tim had to eye the other players to
> let them know a new part was coming.  I noted that Tom Rainey did not
> need these cues.  It seems he may be Tim's right hand man.

I don't know much about Berne's compositional style, but from this
description I was wondering: is it possible that the cues being given were
quite necessary "end of solo" type cues that would be different for every
performance? And the reason the drummer didn't need them was that he would
just play through them while the other instruments needed to change for the
new section? Just curious, I have heard very little Tim Berne...


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 23:01:47 -0500
From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: The Sign of Four

From what I understand from one of the blurbmails I get, Pat Metheny
has scored a movie of this name, and his ostensibly beautiful
soundtrack will be released on CD.

I grin at the projected digestive disorders of those who might think
they were getting, but instead buy and put on his *other* album of
the same name :-)

- --
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| [e-mail]           http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Shekhinah: The Presence     http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music    Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |

- -

------------------------------

Date: 21 Jan 2000 22:25:09 -0600
From: Ben Axelrad <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: lovin' some lovens (and wittwer)

     He's got a solo cd "World of Strings" on Intakt of 5 improvisations.
     It's pretty interesting -- very good, but not great.  He's also
     featured on Koch/Studer/Schutz/Demierre/Dietz/... "CHOCKSHUT" on
     Intakt, and Rudiger Carl's "Virtual COWWS" on FMP, which are both
     excellent.  I noticed he's also on a Carlos Baumann disc on Unit and
     probably creeps up here and there on other discs.

     Ben


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: lovin' some lovens (and wittwer)
Author:  [e-mail] at Internet-USA
Date:    1/21/00 3:25 PM


I'm listening to a tape with material from what must be CHOICE-CHASE by Paul
Lovens (perc), Paul Schutz (elec cello), and Stephan Wittwer (elec guitar),
live in Zurich, early Nineties.  It's pretty amazing, with more Wittwer here
than Lovens.  I've only heard Wittwer on GROOVES N' LOOPS (COWWS), and it
was not this amazing.  What else has he, Wittwer, done?  Is it hard to find?

- ----s
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


- -

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 04:42:45 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Bill Laswell's Jazzonia

In a message dated 1/19/00 1:15:55 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< Jazzonia is not my favorite piece by Bill but it has more to do with my
 dislike for this genre of jazz than with Laswell's interesting rendering in
 a hip-hop scat format.  As far as descriptors like "complete bullshit" or
 "lame", they say more about the one who comments than about the music. >>

The person also said "poorly-played", and out of all of these comments- this
is the one that is most off-base.  This CD is a continuation of Laswell's
exploration of various fusions of hiphop beats and fill-in-the-genre-here
music- this time the genre being cool r'n'b-influenced scatting.  While this
is not a CD that most on this list would race out to buy, I can't think of a
better disc in recent memory to throw on at the later hours of your nest
gathering of friends- the ones you wouldn't dare expose to Zorn's even more
"mild" excursions.  Yes- i'm talking about that "mainstream" crowd.  There's
also some rap here and there too, a warning for those who tend to get scared
off by such.  Once you've gotten past those few bits, there's some cool music
in store, and some *good* playing here.

Oh- did I mention that this is great "chick" music?  You can thank Stephen
later.  ;-)

=dg=

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 09:43:04 -0500
From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: dave d & indie cool

At 09:11 PM 1/21/00 -0500, Steve Smith wrote:
>
>While I can't think of many alternative rock bands that truly flourished
>after passing from an indie to a major since Nirvana, although Sonic Youth
>get points for longevity at least, since most of them seem to break up, pace
>Husker Du - and please, don't make claims for Smashing Pumpkins or Hole -
>neither can I think of an example in recent memory where an indie linked up
>with a major and actually improved its lot by much or for long.

Hole is certainly a bad example.  I heard a story on NPR yesterday that
they're getting sued by Geffen, who wants them *never* to make a release
under the name Hole again, claiming they owe Geffen six albums.

And one point that I haven't seen mentioned in this thread yet: we would
probably not all be here together if JZ hadn't gotten his deal on Nonesuch
and we were relying on his Parachute releases for knowledge of his
activities.

- --
Caleb Deupree
[e-mail]

It is pretty obvious that the debasement of the human mind caused by a
constant flow of fraudulent advertising is no trivial thing.  There is more
than one way to conquer a country.

- -- Raymond Chandler

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 16:15:32 +0100
From: "Stefan Verstraeten" <[e-mail]>
Subject: New Henry Kaiser release

Hi,

Just to let you know that there is a very fine release by Henry Kaiser.
Although, it is actually a album by Henry Kaiser and Roberto Zorzi, called
'through' and is released on the italian materiali sonori label.
Personally, it is very good to see Henry back in full force after his
splendid miles davis cover album.

In this release, he teamed up with the guitar player of the italian band
LA1919, and believe me, these two guitar players have both a very open mind
towards styles of music. The album shows a  broad range of genres: from
derek bailey guitar picking (there is also a track that feature a chat
between these two players, just like derek bailey does, but the funny thing
here is that roberto zorzi doesn't speak english very well, and they play at
a very loud level, so actually the chat is very funny to listen to, since
roberto does not understand one word..... result: very strange answers to
simple questions) to bluegrass, blues, noise, romantic new age music and a
very beatiful cover of a nick drake song (Time of no reply).

I think I made my point clear: if you have the chance to pick up this album,
please do so.

If you can't find it in the shops, you can allways check out
http://www.matson.it

Stefan Verstraeten

[e-mail]

NP Percy Howard solo album (also on the same label)


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 13:26:50 -0500
From: Brian Olewnick <[e-mail]>
Subject: Conjure on CD

Has the American Clave release 'Conjure' been issued to disc? I know
much of the rest of their catalogue has been, but don't recall seeing
this one ('Conjure' was a Hanrahan-organized project dedicated to
putting Ishmael Reed's texts to music and included folk like David
Murray, Olu Dara, Lester Bowie, Taj Mahal and many others). Was playing
the first album this morning and being knocked out by, among other
things, Dara's playing on 'Duelism' and would really like to have it on
CD.  Thanks.

Brian Olewnick

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 14:41:21 -0500
From: "David J. Keffer" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Joseph Holbrooke

Earlier, I had asked for a review of the Joseph Holbrooke cdep on
INCUS and some folks expressed interest but no one had heard it yet.
Well, now I have heard it, maybe half a dozen times, so I will give
a brief review.  10 minutes, including what sounds like sound check.
Overall sensation:  nothing.  Had to listen to it 6 times to make
sure that I had heard it.  Total background jazz, as I have heard
played in the jazz clubs of Kansas City by local musicians, who have
no reputation or inclination for playing improvisation outside the
jazz idiom.  In short, I cannot distinguish this guitar playing as
Derek Baileys as from any practiced, mellow, restaurant background
jazz trio.  All of the theory regarding Joseph Holbrooke that is
discussed by Derek Bailey in his Improvisation book is not apparent
to me.  Even as an example of Derek Bailey playing "straight" jazz,
this cd was not particularly rewarding, although my general
disappointment with the cd (cd-rom actually) may have colored my
perception on this last point.

David K.

p.s.
I agree with Steve S. that "Drop Me Off At 96th" is my favorite
solo Derek Bailey release. I like him giving the Incus address
to guitar accompaniment.



- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 11:47:46 PST
From: "J.M. Schuller" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Taboo and Exile Photo

Has anyone noticed the secret photograph hidden under the tray in Taboo and
Exile? You must take the tray out and look under the art....
Taboo indeed...


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 18:00:43 -0500
From: "ADM" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Taboo and Exile Photo

Whoa mother!  I didn't notice that or the hardly viewable picture that hides
the underneat picture!


- ----- Original Message -----
From: J.M. Schuller <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2000 2:47 PM
Subject: Taboo and Exile Photo


> Has anyone noticed the secret photograph hidden under the tray in Taboo
and
> Exile? You must take the tray out and look under the art....
> Taboo indeed...
>
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
>
> -
>


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 19:04:36 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: dave d & indie cool

In a message dated 1/21/00 9:13:14 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< While I can't think of many alternative rock bands that truly flourished
after passing from an indie to a major since Nirvana >>

I'm not exactly sure whether you're talking about artistically or financially
flourishing here. if it's artistic, the Boredoms have made their best records
for Warner (albeit Warner Japan), and Ween definitely took a step forward
with their first record for Elektra (Pure Guava), although it's been downhill
(way, way downhill lately) ever since. Stereolab have made their best records
since they were signed to Elektra. and Monster Magnet's best record was their
first for A&M, Superjudge.

Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com



- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 19:20:47 -0500
From: "Sean Terwilliger" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Conjure on CD

I have both Conjure albums on CD - The first on Pangaea and the second on
American Clave. Haven't seen either of them around in ages though. THis
first might have been reissued by Rounder when they had the AC distribution.

- -Sean


> Has the American Clave release 'Conjure' been issued to disc? I know
>
> Brian Olewnick
>
> -
>


- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V2 #840
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