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1999-10-10
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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #772
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Monday, October 11 1999 Volume 02 : Number 772
In this issue:
-
That NY Times verbiage (& Jewel)
Re: Free Flutists?
Free Flutists?
Re: That NY Times verbiage (& Jewel)
Re: Charlemagne Palestine
Re: noise etc.
Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #771
Can anyone tell me what Prelapse's album is like?
Masada @ Warsaw Summer Jazz Days, Poland
Delusion on disc
Re: Masada @ Warsaw Summer Jazz Days, Poland
Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #766
Great Sax Session
[none]
[none]
[none]
re: Naked City re-runs
Re: Masada @ Warsaw Summer Jazz Days, Poland
Re: Free Flutists?
milt jackson rip
Re: month'o'mazzacane, night 6
Feldman
SIMILARITIES
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 03:55:37 +0100
From: parry@macconnect.com
Subject: That NY Times verbiage (& Jewel)
I suppose the author of that piece didn't realize that the sniping tone
undermined any points he was trying to make.
The David Byrne essay, on the other hand, was a rather refreshing change
from the usual Times music trend story. As much as I enjoy reading other
sections of the Times, I get very little out of its music coverage. Those
trend/theme pieces are almost always pompous, ponderous and pontifical, not
to mention about 20 inches longer than they need to be. Maybe the paper
doesn't really believe music is a worthy topic in and of itself, and that's
why even concert reviews have to be larded with lengthy discussions of the
artists' supposed socio-cultural significance. Sometimes it's difficult to
tell whether the writer enjoyed a concert or not, since description of the
event is secondary to some clever semiotic thesis.
At the same time, the Times appears to be so afraid of appearing elitist
that it devotes enormous amounts of space to fawning analyses of ephemeral
pop effusions by the likes of Alanis Morissette. But at least they didn't
splash Ricky Martin all over the front page for winning an MTV award, as
did the fine "news"paper I work for.
Meanwhile, all of this is relatively low on my scale of outrage compared to
the mortifying spectacle of Merle Haggard dueting with Jewel on the Country
Music Association awards. I think, or at any rate, I'd like to think, his
manager has to have drugged him.
Parry Gettelman
briefly un-lurking
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 13:25:47 GMT
From: Oger <oger@worldnet.fr>
Subject: Re: Free Flutists?
> Possibly a silly question, but, aside from the arguable example of
> Robert Dick, are there any free players around who stick exclusively
> to the flute? Not someone like Braxton who sometimes plays flute and
> sometimes plays free, but...the Derek Bailey of the flute.
>
> Brian Olewnick
In France, we have a very good flautist (thanks Jon, you learn me the
correct spelling :-) : Jerome Bourdellon.
He played and made a very good CD with Joe Mac Phee.
He played with Jim Denley and Machine for making sense too.
Jacques Oger
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 12:11:57 EDT
From: Knutboy@aol.com
Subject: Free Flutists?
Maybe David Toop?
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 12:08:47 -0500
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>
Subject: Re: That NY Times verbiage (& Jewel)
BTW, Byrne to some extent rehashes points made well by Jody Diamond in
her article 'There is no "they" there', available online at
http://www.lib.virginia.edu/reserve/cscan/gaunt/diamond.there.pdf
- --
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Shekhinah: The Presence http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 13:40:26 EDT
From: JonAbbey2@aol.com
Subject: Re: Charlemagne Palestine
In a message dated 10/6/99 5:55:07 PM, tpratt9@yahoo.com writes:
<< Lastly, does anyone know anything about the two
Palestine albums on Barooni (Barooni 14 & 19) listed
in the selective discography of the liner notes? I'm
assuming they're long out-of-print LPs. Am I right? >>
nope, they're both CDs. Four Manifestations On Six Elements is Barooni 14 and
Godbear is Barooni 19. not sure if they're in print or not.
Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 1999 16:22:14 -0400
From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <cdeupree@erinet.com>
Subject: Re: noise etc.
At 03:18 AM 10/9/99 -0400, Daniel L Brown wrote:
>
>2) There's very little room for interplay even when other
>musicians/performers are invited on board.
The collaboration with Christopher Heeman on Streamline, Sleeper on the
Edge of the Abyss, is a very pleasant exception to this general rule.
Heeman seems to have had the final say (i.e., he remixed Merzbow), but this
album is very atmospheric and almost ambient in nature. Merzbow listeners
will certainly find some of the original herein, but to a much greater
extent it's Heeman's product.
- --
Caleb Deupree
cdeupree@erinet.com
It is pretty obvious that the debasement of the human mind caused by a
constant flow of fraudulent advertising is no trivial thing. There is more
than one way to conquer a country.
- -- Raymond Chandler
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 20:06:28 EDT
From: Nervenet@aol.com
Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #771
Someone wrote:
<<> wondering is, can anyone out there put their noise aesthetic into words. i
> can't, and i'm curious.>>
Like a couple other respondants here, I don't much listen to noise bands
anymore. I got into the genre, such as it is, before it had crystallized into
the scene that it is now. It was somewhere in the late 80's, but most of the
music that I sought out was of late 70's or early 80's vintage - No Wave
stuff mostly, plus Zorn, Frith, and Laswell projects of varying couth, and
The Residents and Snakefinger (not noise bands, I know, but certainly cut
from the same cloth) and Neubauten leading the way into that mess. Reading
Lester Bangs' stuff (now he has a great definition of his impulse to enjoy
noise, can't find my book or I'd quote it for you) also provided an impetus
to seek out more - Miles's Rated X and Ornette Coleman and Coltrane; John
Cage, Xenakis and Stockhausen.
When I check out Boredoms offshoots and some pieces on Avant, I just
think "well, that sounds cool." Although the sonic specifics may be
different, the impulse seems the same as some of the above artists - the
Boredoms don't tell me anything that DNA didn't - and Arto went on to make
even better music IMO (although I grant that the Boredoms are responsible for
two of the best concerts I've ever seen). I have friends who are heavily into
the noise thing who are jealous that I've seen Zorn and play me newer stuff
they think I'll dig along those lines and again, it all sounds good, but
strangely familiar. i think that my detachment goes more along the lines of
this argument:
<<interesting conglomerations of sound and noise don't need to be loud to be
engaging, and in fact sometimes become more unintelligible with increasing
amplitude. But maybe that's a different aesthetic altogether.>>
than the three that Daniel brown laid out:
Not enough variety from album to album, although this can be a curse as well;
not enough active interplay with musicians - this doesn't bother me; and lack
of imagination - I don't pay enough attention to notice.
I'd rather hear Cecil Taylor, or Ayler, or Coltrane, or Zorn. It just
seems to me like the music is subtler and more complex than a lot of what
friends loan me to check out lately. And Ascension is pretty damn loud, as is
Miles's Rated X, but both are deadly serious - standing in contrast to this
statement (with which i don't fully agree):
<<Well, I think this points to one of the central aspects behind the noise
aesthetic: volume (as in "loudness") is still antithetical to serious art.>>.
Anyway, i don't come to this discussion with fully-formed arguments. Simply a
feeling that noise bands that I hear are acting off the same impulses that
drove noisy bands yesterday. (Early) Red Crayola, Mars, Merzbow, the guy(s?)
who wrote Maldoror - they all come from a similar position to my ears. I
shared that position once and feel like I'm not in tune with it anymore. But
I'm still willing to try to hear music in this vein that will tell me
something new....
Patrick Brown
Nervenet@aol.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 1999 19:42:51 -0600
From: nickmc@home.com
Subject: Can anyone tell me what Prelapse's album is like?
I know some have said naked city influenced, but I would like to know a
little more if I could,
thanks alot
Nick McCormick
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 15:02:35 +0200
From: "Artur Nowak" <arno@emd.pl>
Subject: Masada @ Warsaw Summer Jazz Days, Poland
For those of you who already have recordings from this year edition of WSJD:
I wrote down all titles of the tunes performed by Masada String Trio, Bar
Kokhba and Masada and uploaded them to
http://www.emd.pl/emd/en4/artists/m/masada/live/19990625.htm
Just one song played by Bar Kokhba that evening sounds new to me, it was the
only one introduced by Zorn, the title is "Kol Nidre" (or whatever the
spelling is) - is it published anywhere? Or is it really new?
Listening to these tunes I noticed that few notes from "Katzatz" sound like
faster version of "Lakum" - these are probably the most similar Masada
tunes.
One more question: does Zorn speak a lot during live performances? While he
was introducing Bar Kokhba band he said "The handsome Marc Ribot!... He
should change his clothes often though!" (Ribot played one evening before
and wore the same suit :-)
__________________________________________________________________
Artur Nowak [arno AT emd.pl]
www.emd.pl - Discography of Bill Frisell
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 11:18:10 -0400
From: Brian Olewnick <olewnik@idt.net>
Subject: Delusion on disc
Just a note to let listers know that Harry Partch's masterwork,
'Delusion of the Fury' is finally available on disc (on Innova, as
'Enclosure 6'). Perhaps many have come to know Partch's music only over
the last decade and have been unable to hear this work, issued on
Columbia in 1972. If so, run, do not walk, to pick this up. IMHO, one of
the single greatest works of the century.
The remastering is excellent with somewhat clearer sound, greater stereo
separation and, at least with regards to my stereo, the emergence of a
handful of instrumental parts I was unable to hear previously. There's
also a fine essay by Danlee Mitchell and intriguing notes by Partch.
My only complaint is that the bonus album of Partch demonstrating and
discussing his instruments (among other things) was not included here
(though his prologue and epilogue, beautiful statements of aesthetic
philosophy, are printed on the inside back cover--still, one does miss
Partch's stentorian voice).
A deep, beautiful, endlessly inventive work of art.
Brian Olewnick
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 11:38:09 EDT
From: Nvinokur@aol.com
Subject: Re: Masada @ Warsaw Summer Jazz Days, Poland
Kol Nidre is a based on cantorial melodies from the Yom Kippur and Rosh
Hashanah service written around the time of the first Temple over 2000 years
ago. It is probably in the public domain by now.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 14:20:02 EDT
From: Nudeants@aol.com
Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #766
As someone who's listened to each Naked City album since its release, the
debut and Radio are by far the most expendable to me. Grand Guignol,
Heretic, and Absinthe are masterpieces. Absinthe is the one that has held up
best over time for me, actually; I'd say it's by far the darkest. Don't
forget Leng T'Che, either. I think the hardcore pieces on GG that are the
repeats from Torture Garden are better placed on GG; they're much more dark
and menacing (obviously)
I'm sure this has been oft-tread, but I'm relatively new to the list and I
wanted to get in my cent.
matt mitchell
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 16:22:08 EDT
From: User384726@aol.com
Subject: Great Sax Session
I was wondering what people thought of zorn's playing on this disk. He is
unquestionably the most recognizable voice on this album and I think he's an
interesting addition to the more straight ahead voices on the album but as he
also sounds like a fish out of water due to the lack of interplay between the
rhythm section (particularly the drums). Any thoughts?
- -
------------------------------
Date:
From:
Subject: [none]
------------------------------
Date:
From:
Subject: [none]
------------------------------
Date:
From:
Subject: [none]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 01:25:48 -0400
From: Taylor McLaren <paste@interlog.com>
Subject: re: Naked City re-runs
MEEP! matt mitchell wrote:
>I think the hardcore pieces on GG that are the
>repeats from Torture Garden are better placed on GG... [HACK!]
Only having heard a couple (or four, I suppose) of Naked City albums to
date, I can't say that I'm even terribly sure that there's a pattern to
spot in the first place, but *is* there some reason for the repetition of
tracks from NC album to NC album? Having picked up the Black Box set before
anything else, I was more than a tad disappointed to find out just how much
of the Nonesuch debut disc was material that I had heard before... and now
it looks as though I'm in for exactly the same treat if I ever decide to
pick up _Grand Guignol_. What gives? Is there some profound conceptual
logic behind this repetition, or are these duplicate tracks just
label-to-label padding?
- -me (apologies if this is FAQ material)
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 11:18:42 +0200
From: patrice schneider <gda@datacomm.ch>
Subject: Re: Masada @ Warsaw Summer Jazz Days, Poland
Artur Nowak wrote:
>
> Just one song played by Bar Kokhba that evening sounds new to me, it was the
> only one introduced by Zorn, the title is "Kol Nidre" (or whatever the
> spelling is) - is it published anywhere? Or is it really new?
>
hi artur,
"kol nidre" is the last piece on john zorn's tzadik release "the string
quartets".
patRice
btw: i'll contact you again soon about the "emergency" live recording
from switzerland!
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 12:29:38 CEST
From: "Andreas Dietz" <andreasdietz@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Free Flutists?
> > Possibly a silly question, but, aside from the arguable example of
> > Robert Dick, are there any free players around who stick
>exclusively
> > to the flute? Not someone like Braxton who sometimes plays flute
>and
> > sometimes plays free, but...the Derek Bailey of the flute.
> >
> > Brian Olewnick
>
>In France, we have a very good flautist (thanks Jon, you learn me the
>correct spelling :-) : Jerome Bourdellon.
>He played and made a very good CD with Joe Mac Phee.
>
>He played with Jim Denley and Machine for making sense too.
>
>Jacques Oger
>
>
Jim Denley is a very interesting flautist with a unique style too !! At the
end of October he is on tour with the quintet LINES (Martin Blume, Phil
Wachsman and others).
Andreas Dietz
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 09:35:05 -0500 (CDT)
From: Whit Schonbein <whit@twinearth.wustl.edu>
Subject: milt jackson rip
pardon if this is postmature - i'm on digest. subject line says it all.
there's an article on the cnn website:
http://www.cnn.com/US/9910/11/obit.jackson.ap/index.html
whit
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 07:48:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Pratt <tpratt9@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: month'o'mazzacane, night 6
- --- JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote:
> but I was there on Saturday to
> see Haunted House for
> the second time in the festival
While Jon was busy seeing Haunted House for the
millionth time, I was up at Cooper Union listening to
the Flux String Quartet perform all six hours of
Morton Feldman's "String Quartet No. 2". Since there
are no available recordings of the piece, I was not
familiar with the music beforehand. But what I found
was that the musical material and arrangements were
very similar to "String Quartet (No. 1)" but that it
had more of a block/cell structure like "Patterns In A
Chromatic Field".
Structurally, this piece is completely mindblowing -
Feldman is an architect. Throughout the six hours,
separate sections were stated and then reappeared
later in a different form and context. Yet there was
always new material being presented, so it was as if
it were always propelling forward but always
remembering what had happened before. Everything was
*so* meticulous, detailed and delicate... I can't
really grasp this thing yet. The piece is a living,
breathing whale. There was a section about an hour
long somewhere in the middle that moved me more than
any music I can remember.
If you ever get a chance to see this thing, don't be
scared off by its length. It's an amazing bit of
music.
-Tom Pratt
listening to: Folk Music of Nepal (World Music Library)
=====
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 07:49:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Pratt <tpratt9@yahoo.com>
Subject: Feldman
- --- JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote:
> but I was there on Saturday to
> see Haunted House for
> the second time in the festival
While Jon was busy seeing Haunted House for the
millionth time, I was up at Cooper Union listening to
the Flux String Quartet perform all six hours of
Morton Feldman's "String Quartet No. 2". Since there
are no available recordings of the piece, I was not
familiar with the music beforehand. But what I found
was that the musical material and arrangements were
very similar to "String Quartet (No. 1)" but that it
had more of a block/cell structure like "Patterns In A
Chromatic Field".
Structurally, this piece is completely mindblowing -
Feldman is an architect. Throughout the six hours,
separate sections were stated and then reappeared
later in a different form and context. Yet there was
always new material being presented, so it was as if
it were always propelling forward but always
remembering what had happened before. Everything was
*so* meticulous, detailed and delicate... I can't
really grasp this thing yet. The piece is a living,
breathing whale. There was a section about an hour
long somewhere in the middle that moved me more than
any music I can remember.
If you ever get a chance to see this thing, don't be
scared off by its length. It's an amazing bit of
music.
-Tom Pratt
listening to: Folk Music of Nepal (World Music Library)
=====
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 11:07:55 EDT
From: Nudeants@aol.com
Subject: SIMILARITIES
Fleur du Mal and track on Redbird do sound a like, though I think that's due
to the common use of extremely soft and extremely low freuqncies on both
track. I think its interesting how the same effect is achieved by different
means (assuming the Absinthe track is electronic, which it does sound like to
me)
As for the Artemisia Absinthium sample, do you mean the 'buzzing' sound? I
haven't listened to Nani Nani in a long time; I'll have to check that out.
matt mitchell
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V2 #772
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