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v02.n747
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1999-08-19
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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #747
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Friday, August 20 1999 Volume 02 : Number 747
In this issue:
-
re: taboo + exile
Re[2]: John Zorn: Taboo and Exile
Prolific Zorn
vestigial vinyl habits
Re: clusone 3
re: performance preferences
Clusone 3 cents worth
Re: eyes vs ears
In response to those nasty Email's on Zorn's recent work...
Music for Children
King Crimson URL?
Re: Music for Children
Re: Music for Children
Re: King Crimson URL?
Loops & Vocals Live @ The Knitting Factory 8/22
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 99 16:06:05 -0500
From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com
Subject: re: taboo + exile
Hmmm, so last month Zorn owned too many records, and this month he's releasing
too many?
I would think that we, cyberfanclub that we are, would be excited about the
wealth of material, and would be respecting for "historical significance" or
whatever what we don't like as well. But there is an easy solution to the
problem of his releasing too many titles: don't buy them all.
kg
np: nothing
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 16:20:09 -0400
From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu
Subject: Re[2]: John Zorn: Taboo and Exile
Joseph wrote:
>Perhaps he should try a different approach with the Archival Series.
>While they're somewhat subtly labeled as different from releases of
>new material, it still feels like it's all hitting at once.
In the liner notes to one of his discs ('Quartet(Victoriaville) 1992'?),
Braxton, who's often chastised for a similar volume of releases, cites Monk
telling Lacy to document as much of his work as possible (hence, presumably,
Lacy's enormous volume of releases). Just guessing, but I get the strong
impression Zorn is pretty concerned about his profile, his legacy if you will,
being as full and accurate as possible. As he finds himself in the perhaps
temporary position of being able to publish all this stuff (and, as he happens
to have a _lot_ of things to publish, good, bad, or indifferent), I think he's
simply taking advantage of the opportunity.
I rather doubt he takes into account the frustration of admirers of
his music at the volume or quality of these releases but, instead, is
taking the longer view of being able, decades from now, to be able to
look back with satisfaction at having his work out in view, presented
as he see fit. (The neurosis involved with caring that much about
one's image might be another matter entirely).
As I might have mentioned before, for those of us old enough to
remember the dark ages when the mere sighting of _one_ new record by,
say, Anthony Braxton, would provide fuel for a year, it's tough to
complain about an overabundance of anyone whose music we enjoy,
including work that's not great. As Kurt said, we don't have to buy
'em.
Brian Olewnick
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 16:53:28 -0400
From: Matthew Ross Davis <mrd@artswire.org>
Subject: Prolific Zorn
If you'll notice the recordings that have been coming out, the dates on the
compositions are NOT the last year or two - they're 1996, 1992, 1988, etc. etc.
In comparison with the compositional activity of some (dare I say most?)
classical composers - both present and historical - Zorn's "score" output
is quite small, and I certianly don't believe there is any relationship
to be drawn between score prolificity and quality. It certainly didn't mean
that for the likes of Mozart or Bach.
Cage is exactly the same way - the first 50-60 years of his life, NOTHING was
ever recorded - much less published - of his music. Then he began to receive
some critical acclaim, and recordings started to pop up, and now you can
find dozens upon dozens of Cage recordings, with new ones coming out nearly
every few weeks, thanks to lables like Wergo, Lovely and Mode.
Tzadik's releases of Zorn's material I think has to do with Zorn having the
resources available to him to release the music - i.e. gathering people for the
String Quartets CD (when one of them had even been recorded before), the
cooperation and collaborative spirit of Stephen Drury and the Calithumpian
Consort (did I spell that right?), and not to mention whatever mint he taps
into for getting them produced (prolly years of $25 AVANT releases).
I disagree that the "top ten" given here is as downtrodden as reported. Though
I do agree that the "Film Works" series is a bit of the same thing over and
over, Aporias is a group of pieces I really enjoy, and I really liked hearing a
new take on Cat-o-nine-tails. Music for Children is one of the best snapshots
of Zorn's style and output there is - and the wind machine piece has some
fairly interesting timbres in it, on the same scale as Kristalnacht.
Of course, I don't find it a coincidence that the reviewer's taste in Zorn's
output is equivalent to the relative genres involved - he seemed to rave
about the older, less "classical"* Zorn, and admonished all of the recent
"classical" pieces, though he failed to mention two of the best releases
from this period, Angelus Novus and Etant Donnes; and one of the older
"classical" pieces I enjoy a great deal, Elegy.
This isn't meant to slight that reviewer at all, only to point out that music
is the highest of subjective art forms, and yes, he certainly has a right to
make his opinion known, but I don't think he has a right to scorn the man for
being too prolific.
(* when I say "classical" here, I'm only using it as a term to distinguish it
from the more jazz-influenced and idiom-based improvisatory works)
- --
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||/Matthew Ross Davis|||
|||||||||||||||||||||artswire.org/mrd|||||||||||||||||||
|||||||||||||||metatronpress.com/mp3||||||||||||||||||||
||||||||||||||||||||||||mp3.com/mrd|||||||||||||||||||||
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 16:57:44 -0400
From: David Keffer <keffer@planetc.com>
Subject: vestigial vinyl habits
>From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>
>On the other hand: perhaps we're moving into a different time, where many of
>us are carrying over our vestigal vinyl habits.
This is a good point. I posted that I felt Zorn
was releasing rehashed crap but at the same time,
using an example from my own experience, I like
SWANS website, where they have for sale recordings
of 150 live SWANS performances for $10 a pop
spanning the lifetime of the band. I've gotten 3 or 4
of the tapes and they are old material but great.
I guess the difference is only one of perception.
I perceive the Masada live discs on Tzadik to be
something of a rip off but I don't perceive the 150
SWANS live tapes to be a rip off. Well, I am not totally
sure of the fundamental reason for this difference
in perception. It's a curious mental thing going on.
I see the new Masada Live and my brain thinks it would
like to hear that but I don't get the cds because I know I
will be bored with them. On the other hand, I see 150
live SWANS tapes and I have no desire to hear them
all. Perhaps, it is the desire denied that colors the
perception. Now, as to the more fundamental question of
why the desire only arises in one case and not the
other--that much I don't know yet. It could just be the way
they are marketed (Masada Live-as new material with swanky
packaging vs. SWANS Live-no marketing whatsoever and b&w
photocopied tape sleeves, no track listing, etc.).
I will have to go think about it...
David K.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 17:27:11 -0500
From: Nils <jacobson@frodo.mgh.harvard.edu>
Subject: Re: clusone 3
Hywel Davies <hywel99@yahoo.com> wrote:
> any opinions/reviews of the cds by the clusone 3 would be
> welcome..
haven't heard the first hatart, but here's my opines on the rest:
their first record (on moore's ramboy label) is quite excellent, a
little more raw and rough around the edges than the rest.
the two records on gramavision (i am an indian; love henry) are both
fine. i think these are really the best they've put out. spontaneous,
clever, groovy. if i had to pick one of the two i'd pick i am an indian.
the last record, rara avis, is my least favorite. they insist on this
bird theme, with bird noises and tunes with bird titles. that gets a
little old, which is part of the problem. and they don't really seem to
get into quite the same quality of groove.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 17:48:09 -0400
From: lefauxhulot@hotmail.com
Subject: re: performance preferences
(one more time, i decided to break my silence, mainly due to this
hilarious posting shown below.. but i guess this issue has been
discussed well enough. this would be my last rumbling for this issue...
- - pt)
together with the most recent zorn-list digest, i received the following
from another list. i thought the coincidence very funny...=20
& dear mike,
you wrote:
> Excuse me?=A0 What makes you think I cannot imagine these people
> existing?=A0 Do you think that my imagination, feeble as it is, is so
> limited that I cannot imagine someone having a different aesthetic sens=
e
> than I do?
&
> Thank you.=A0 I didn't know this before.=A0 I only landed on the planet
> about 6 months ago.
&
> I am very much in favor of alternative approaches, which I
> think should be explored.=A0 And yes, they are part of the whole
> experience, maybe not as much as the music, maybe as much as the music,
> and in some cases, more than the music.=A0 But that's up to the
> performer/artist.
so... you just came to this planet only 6 mo. ago.. & you seem to be
very imaginative & open minded. great! you'll see & hear a lot of stuffs
(or any combination of those ... mainly/only see, or mainly/only hear,
or both.) welcome & enjoy the planet! - pt
**************the hilarious posting from another
mail-list************************
From: "steve_stain" <steve_stain@email.msn.com>=20
Reply-To: "The Official WE(tm) Mailing List" <we_list@listbot.com>
To: "Name199 Name293" <floater18@hotmail.com>,"The Official WE(tm)
Mailing List" <we_list@listbot.com>
Subject: Re: oh, no!
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 12:47:36 -0700
The Official WE(tm) Mailing List - http://walden.mvp.net/~torq/we.html
A friend told me about an Aphex Twin gig where Richard James just came
out
on stage, as obviously as possible stuck in a DAT tape and then
proceeced to
play games on a Playstation while the music was playing.=A0 Hilarious!
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 18:24:26 -0700
From: Martin_Wisckol@link.freedom.com (Martin Wisckol)
Subject: Clusone 3 cents worth
My favorite is the first one I got, so there's that danger of
impressionable first impressions.... In any event, that was ''I am an
Indian.''
I found "Love Henry" fairly delightful, but in the shadow of Indian.
"Rara Avis" has taken wing in my hovel, surpassing "Love Henry" and
threatening "Indian."
In general terms, the musical voices and approach are pretty much the
same on all three. "Indian" is perhaps even more playful than the
others, momentum never flags. "Rara" seems a bit more settled to me,
for better and for worse, but still full of surprises.
A while ago, somebody asked what zornlisters play at their dinner
party. Not much response then -- but I would say Clusone often works
nicely. Also, the Paul Motian-Bill Frisell trio stuff.
Martin
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 21:34:51 -0400
From: Mike Chamberlain <mikec@rocler.qc.ca>
Subject: Re: eyes vs ears
kurt_gottschalk@scni.com wrote:
>
> Lest I seem to much the puritanical effete academe or sumthin -- I love when
> visual components are added to a music performance. Like Peter "Knucklehead"
> said, Cobra's a perfect example. I'm not a big dance fan, but I'll go out of my
> way to see musicians I like when they're performing with dancers because it
> brings another element, a visual one, to the interpretation. I saw the Japanese
> singer/player Cornelius last night, and he makes great use of synchronized
> video. And I'll never forget Erotec, the concert I saw a couple years ago with
> Threadgill (all hail Threadgill) and Make a Move decked out in amazing costumes
> with a dance troup doing this odd, beautiful, mechanistic choreography. Watching
> Cecil, of course, is also amazing. And, having played a little sax and guitar in
> my day, I do enjoy watching a talented players hands move in ways mine's can't.
>
> So, while I appreciate it when a musician brings that quality to a performance,
> I don't think it's fair to be critical of one who doesn't. As long as they get
> their first order of business done -- playing interesting music (which, Mike, I
> respect your thinking O'Rourke failed in).
>
> -
Yeah, on reflection, perhaps I was a bit unfair to poor Mr. O'Rourke.
What he does has nothing to do with visual presentation. But then
you're really in trouble if the music is not so interesting. It's like
what one poster said, it has to do with expectations, and I expect
either good music or something of visual interest, or both, though I
must say that O'Rourke's lime green cardigan was interesting in its own
way.
- --
Mike "I'm going to see Tom Waits, who will sound and look good"
Chamberlain
Teacher, Writer, Father, Farmer, Broadcaster, Baseball Fan, Jazz Nerd,
Bald Guy
"I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused."
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 01:35:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: Theodorus@webtv.net (Theodorus Klaase)
Subject: In response to those nasty Email's on Zorn's recent work...
I suspect everyone on this list has a different opinion of what the best
Zorn albums are...I, for one, adore the recent stuff like Filmworks
VIII, The Bribe, and Circle Maker...I'm also a big Frisell fan: and even
though he's adjusting his position constantly in the realm of post
modern jazz, I find both the early and the recent albums each have a
special validity that I can respect...Zorn too, will and should continue
to do whatever he pleases...Just relax and enjoy. Besides what else are
going to buy? Zorn is worth the cash 9 out of 10 times... I don't think
many on the list would argue that...
So...Speaking of favorite Zorn albums, Mine are as follows: (from the
selection I've acquired to date)
Filmworks 1,3,5,6, and 8
Circle Maker
Bar Kokhba
Everything Naked City or Masada...
Locus Solus
Painkiller's Execution Ground
Euclid's Nightmare
Spillane
The Bribe
Red Bird
Gauryu Island
Music for Children
...and the albums I'm glad I bought:
Classic Guide to Strategy
Nani Nani
Spy vs. Spy
The Big Gundown
Elegy
Aporias
Now, The best Frisell:
(and he IS required listening)
1. Is that You?
2. Before We were Born
3. Where in the World
in that order...then,
Gone, just like a train
Good Dog, Happy Man
Have a little Faith
Live
Hell, everything else really....
...and this Email's not long enough
Wayne Horvitz's best albums:
Pigpen - V as in Victim
Miss Ann
(check out Briggan Krauss)
Zony Mash - Cold Spell
- -Theodorus
"...this music is lunch for your ears..."
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 10:27:41 +0100
From: Richard@rcvs.org.uk
Subject: Music for Children
> (6) Music for Children - unfortunately bought this, covers of Naked
> City
> songs (old news) plus additional uninspiring tracks for 3, count them
> 3, wind machines (sometimes referred to as "fans")
I for one enjoyed a piece from "Music for Children" (or perhaps it
was the whole piece? memory fails me) when JZ played the
Barbican a while ago. It was neither Naked City covers nor music
for wind machines (which *does* sound intruiging...) but a trio for
violin, piano and percussion. It went down very well with the
(admittedly hugely receptive) crowd.
I hadn't seen the CD release. is this the same piece, or different
stuff with a similar title?
Rich
- -------------------------------------------------
New on (musings) this week: reviews (with MP3s) of new CD
releases featuring, among others, John Stevens, Chris Speed,
Dave Douglas, Wayne Horovitz, Bobby Previte, Francois Houle,
Hans Tammen, Keith Tippett, Jerry Granelli, Thurston Moore...
http://www.come.to/musings.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 10:35:00 +0100
From: Richard@rcvs.org.uk
Subject: King Crimson URL?
> Through Discipline Global Mobile, Fripp is distributing archival material
> in several different tiers. Some are distributed through the usual record
> stores, others through mail and Web order, another group only via a
> Collector's Club, and, as of a few days ago, some live recordings
> downloadable (for free now, though later ones will be for pay) from the
> Web.
Anyone have an URL for the downloadable stuff? Sounds like a "get
'em while they're hot" deal. Mind you, over a modem line,
downloading an MP3 album can be as expensive as buying it on
CD...
Rich
- -------------------------------------------------
New on (musings) this week: reviews (with MP3s) of
new CD releases featuring, among others, John Stevens,
Chris Speed, Dave Douglas, Wayne Horovitz, Bobby Previte,
Francois Houle, Hans Tammen, Keith Tippett, Jerry
Granelli, Thurston Moore...
http://www.come.to/musings.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 00:15:25 +1000
From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au>
Subject: Re: Music for Children
> I for one enjoyed a piece from "Music for Children" (or perhaps it
> was the whole piece? memory fails me) when JZ played the
> Barbican a while ago. It was neither Naked City covers nor music
> for wind machines (which *does* sound intruiging...) but a trio for
> violin, piano and percussion. It went down very well with the
> (admittedly hugely receptive) crowd.
>
> I hadn't seen the CD release. is this the same piece, or different
> stuff with a similar title?
A track on the cd, with the name "Music For Children", played by the
Abel/Steinberg/Winant trio...
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 00:24:48 +1000
From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au>
Subject: Re: Music for Children
And for anyone who's interested and hasn't checked out the cd, it actually
features 3 pieces by Prelapse which are like "leftovers" from the Naked
City repertoire, not covers as someone suggested. 2 of them also feature
Zorn. The album also has 2 pieces with Anthony Coleman on celeste (one of
them also with Cyro Baptista on percussion/vocals) and a Masada-ish piece
with Ribot, Friedlander and Cohen.
All in all, if you chuck in the trio piece and wind machine piece it's
pretty disjointed, but it has it's moments...
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 11:06:23 -0400
From: "Zachary J. Griffin" <zgriffin@iconn.net>
Subject: Re: King Crimson URL?
Try disciplineglobalmobile.com
> Anyone have an URL for the downloadable stuff? Sounds like a "get
> 'em while they're hot" deal. Mind you, over a modem line,
> downloading an MP3 album can be as expensive as buying it on
> CD...
>
> Rich
>
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 14:35:59 -0400
From: David Gross <theorcolus@earthlink.net>
Subject: Loops & Vocals Live @ The Knitting Factory 8/22
Live @ The Knitting Factory Sunday August 22nd @ 9 PM
74 Leonard St
212-219-3006
"Vocal Experiments"
Theo Bleckmann-voice/electronics
David C Gross-6 string fretless bass, electronics, loops
Toby Kasavan-keys
The wonderful voice of Bleckmann is treated through his array of effects
with the underpinning of ambient instrumental festivities by Gross and
Kasavan.
David Gross <theorcolus@earthlink.net>
"a great musician needs to be committed!'
www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Venue/7773/
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V2 #747
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