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1999-08-16
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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #742
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Tuesday, August 17 1999 Volume 02 : Number 742
In this issue:
-
push play to perform
Derek Bailey goes pop.......
Re: electroacoustic music
Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #741
Re: bailey rec
Re: recent goodies (otomo edition) - long
music guide to boston ?
solicitations in excelsis
Re[2]: electroacoustic music
Re: solicitations in excelsis
Re: recent goodies (otomo edition)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 99 11:36:33 -0500
From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com
Subject: push play to perform
I saw David Shea perform "Trio for Samplers" solo a coupla years back. After the
set, I asked him why it was a trio if there was just one sampler. He laughed
(heartily, I thought, for what seemed an evident question), then said that it
used to require three performers to perform the piece, but then he got a more
powerful sampler.
He then explained to me that if he wanted, he could have the whole thing loaded
ahead of time and push play and the machine would do the entire piece. But, he
said, he considers that "dishonest" (his word), and that in order for it to be a
performance, he needs to sit there in real time and load all the samples and
start them at the appropriate time.
Shea is one of my fave sampling performers, by the by, and seeing him live
should rectify any beliefs that electronics performers don't really do anything.
That might be because he's using a piano keyboard instead of a computer
keyboard, but that distinction is really incidental.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 17:47:49 +0200
From: "Stefan Verstraeten" <stefan.annik@planetinternet.be>
Subject: Derek Bailey goes pop.......
Hello
It is indeed from the emanem album Fairly early with postscript.
The track i was talking about is called 'In whose tradition', but watch out,
the track only takes 35 seconds.
Anyway, it is a nice thing to hear derek play normally....
Best wishes
stefan verstraeten
>From: David Keffer <keffer@planetc.com>
>Subject: bailey rec
>
>About a month ago, a couple folks on the list
>(maybe Steve S. and Stefan V.) were talking about a record
>with a track where Derek Bailey was playing straight.
>Would one of you remind me what this was? I think
>you all said it was on Emanem but I could be wrong
>and I can't seem to find it searching through the
>back issues of the digest...
>
>I see three DB solo records on emanem. Is it one of these?
>
>Domestic & Public Pieces
>Lace
>Fairly Early Derek Bailey With Postscripts
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 11:14:18 -0500 (CDT)
From: Whit Schonbein <whit@twinearth.wustl.edu>
Subject: Re: electroacoustic music
I haven't heard much of o'rourke's electroacoustic music outside of
'terminal pharmacy' (tzadik) and the occasional tape manipulation (or
whatever) on the gastr del sol albums, so i can't say much there.
however, ever since the early 80's i've never been too thrilled by a
performer standing behind a piece of electronics (be it a synth, a drum
machine, or a computer) twiddling nobs and what have you (compare the
scene from pink floyd's 'live in pompeii' where roger waters turns a nob
on a looping device so slowly you can't tell if he is moving at all - now
that's excitement). the music may be nice, but the image projected to the
audience is a bit boring.
as an aside, perhaps the problem is that it is hard for the average
audience member to grasp what exactly is making the noise - with a guitar,
piano, etc, it's a vibrating string; a reed instrument is a vibrating
reed; but with a computer you can press a single key and get a symphony,
which seems like cheating. however, if you know what goes into making
that single key press sound like a symphony, one's appreciation of the
music may increase (perhaps in the same way my appreciation of free jazz
increased when i realized how hard it was to make the barks, squonks, and
squeals). One should note that the fact electronic music was difficult to
associate with any definite source or object was one of the main
attractions of electronics for classically trained composers (the
'acousmatic experience', as the aestheticists say).
I tend to approach music historically, and
electronic music has a long and quite interesting history. i'm no expert,
but here's what i think i know:
In the beginning there were the Cologne and the Paris
schools of electronic music. The Cologn school emphasized the
construction of sounds from purely electronic sources - sine wave
generators (since any sound can be decomposed into a set of sine waves,
the idea was the reverse process could be acheived with a sufficient
number of sine wave generators, allowing composers to construct completly
novel sounds, never before experienced). The Paris school (headed by
Pierre Henry?) emphasized the manipulation of sounds recorded on tape
(also called musique concret). The two schools exhibited no small amount
of animosity towards one another, each holding that the other was not
doing what 'electronic' music was supposed to be. The dichotomy dissolved
within a generation or two (like most dichotomies), but you can still find
people who prefer one over another (I prefer the Paris approach).
If anyone is interested, here are some of my favourites:
Pierre Henry, 'Variations pour une porte et un soupir' (1963), harmonia
mundi HMA 1905200
Pierre Henry 'L'homme a la camera' (1993), Mantra 092/642350
Vladimir Ussachevsky, 'Film Music', (1967), New World Records 80389-2
Vladimir Ussachevsky, a new album on the CRI label containing his earlier
works (1957-1971); don't have the info handy
Various Artists, 'Pioneers of electronic music', CRI american masters, CD
611 (w/ ussachevsky, Luening, others).
Xenakis, 'electronic music', EMF/IMA GRM EMF CD 003
B. Parmegiani, 'de natura sonorum', (1975), INA GRM
B Parmegiani, 'la creation du monde', INA GRM
F. Bayle, 'vibrations composees and grand polyphonie', INA GRM
Luc Ferrari, 'presque rien', INA GRM
these are all more or less historical. I think most everyone on this list
is familiar with more recent developments concerning Walter Prati's and
Lawrence Casserley's sonic adventures with evan parker and thurston moore,
which I also reccommend. oh yeah, the INA GRM titles used to be available
at forced exposure...
The live processing of acoustic sound is relatively new, and parallels the
construction of faster and faster computers, but there are exceptions
(Stockhausen's Mikrophone I and II for example). I myself hope that as
more people interested in electronics rediscover the past masters the
variety and quality of electrroacoustic music will increase.
None of this means it will be exciting to watch, of course. wy do you
think they have laser and light shows at raves, anyway? ;)
cheers,
whit
- ------------------------------------------
William W. Schonbein
Philosophy-Neuroscience-Psychology Program
Department of Philosophy
Washington University
St. Louis, MO, USA
whit@twinearth.wustl.edu
- ------------------------------------------
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 09:41:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ryan Novak <ryan_novak@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #741
>I think if people were to use some of the software,
orview a backdrop screen
>of it at work, perhaps then their misconceptions
andnegative stereotypes would
>be allieved.
That could be true. Even though we don't all play
saxophones, guitars, drums, etc. we have sort of an
idea of how they are played. The computer performance
is more of a mystery. As of now. Also the musician's
themselves will get better at using these programs
which are still very very new compared to more
traditional instruments.
I also still think that O'Rourke was boring though. I
didn't see much interaction either, but that could be
said about some of the non-electronic shows there.
But NOT the Brotzmann Tentet which sort of defined
interaction. They could all take a hint from that
guy.
- --Ryan Novak
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 13:26:37 -0400
From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu
Subject: Re: bailey rec
>About a month ago, a couple folks on the list
>(maybe Steve S. and Stefan V.) were talking about a record
>with a track where Derek Bailey was playing straight.
>Would one of you remind me what this was?
>Fairly Early Derek Bailey With Postscripts
This is one of two examples I know of. On one track the tape was left running
and DB alternates some "straight" guitar playing with bursts of his more ususal
noise. It _is_ on Emanem and is well worthwhile for a variety of reasons. Aside
from some typically great playing, several tracks include DB talking over the
piece, one of which explaining why he likes doing so. Essentially it has to do
with occupying the right side of his brain thus freeing his left side to play
unhindered by his conscious will. (Personally, I think the whole left/right
brain deal is way oversimplified, but DB's route seems to still be an
interesting approach to playing). As he's expressed a preference for playing
with other musicians rather than solo, I wonder if he does a similar thing with
co-performers, ie, concentrating intently on what _they're_ playing as opposed
to his own music. If so, this flies totally in the face of what I've experienced
when watching Bailey: his apparent total and incisive concentration on every
sound he's producing--but, of course, I could've had it wrong all the while!
The other example is on 'Drop Me Off at 96th' where, during a label-promotional
interlude, DB refers to the standard, 'I Didn't Know What Time It Was' and
strums a few gorgeous bars from same.
Of course, there's also his playing (if not straight, at least notated) on Gavin
Bryars' original recording of Jesus' Blood.
Brian Olewnick
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 13:41:18 EDT
From: JonAbbey2@aol.com
Subject: Re: recent goodies (otomo edition) - long
In a message dated 8/17/99 4:30:04 AM, lefauxhulot@hotmail.com writes:
<< anyway... like in any other genre, there are some electronic artists
good at improv. and some are not at all improvisors ryoji ikeda for
instance, is a supreme composer. +/- is a must. & his work for noton's
current series 20/2000 is great too. his live performances are great to
attend. but he most likely, presents a pre-composed piece. i think he
preferrs that way. his pieces are meticulously made... so, he doesn't
want to mess it up. (& why should he?!) it's his way of approach. &
you'd still have great time if you attend a concert by him. (but not
more than once in a short period of time... since there's a great chance
you end up listening to an exactly same set.) >>
yeah, this is a good point. we talked a bit to Ikeda after his performance at
Experimental Intermedia, and all he did was push a button to start the show.
the room was entirely dark, though, so you could barely even see him just
sitting there while the music played. the picture used in the NY Times review
was actually taken at the soundcheck earlier in the day.
despite this, it was a very entertaining concert, although it might have been
better experienced if you could walk around the space and hear the different
tone combinations in different ways. one thing that I found really
interesting at this show was that sometimes the deep bass got overwhelming,
but if I leaned way forward in my seat, I could literally duck under this
aspect of the music to a large extent. so, despite there being zero visual
element, and no improv by the musician, I still found it a very enjoyable
experience.
Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 14:02:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: Benjamin Pequet <pequet@altern.org>
Subject: music guide to boston ?
Hi.
I remember someone asked the question on this list a few months ago, of
places where to find music in Boston: record stores, venues, newspapers...
Are there music libraries in Boston ?
The question might have been originally about New York and Boston.
There had been a great deal of answers and some were talking about compiling
these answers into a guide, of some kind.
Unfortunately the archives of the zornlist are not searchable, I think, and
I didn't know back then that I would be moving to Boston in september.
So I ask, has someone saved these messages, or is willing to answer again
on- or off-list ?
Someone also had mentioned once (if I remember right, and maybe in reply to
someone else who was trying to locate a film that had inspired zorn to write
some music) a video rental store in new York where to find experimental work
you can't really hope to find elsewhere, like obscure japanese films film
compilations compiled supposedly by zorn himself ?
Thanks.
Benjamin
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 18:05:47 GMT
From: "Scott Handley" <c123018@hotmail.com>
Subject: solicitations in excelsis
I am really hesitant to do this, but I could really use opinions on the
following records. I've tried to avoid redundancy, but feel free to mail me
privately if that seems more appropriate. Keep in mind that if there hasn't
been discussion on the following items, mini-reviews may be helpful to
newbier folks like me. Thanks in advance!
Ogun CD 010/011 Frames (Music for an imaginary film) (Keith Tippett's Ark
ensemble)
1990, The Dartington concert, EEG 2106. Solo. (Keith Tippett) - the Penguin
guide boys seem to prefer this to the stellar MUJICIAN III
FMP CD88 Suite for B... city (Van Hove Nonet)
Victo cd050 Music for three rivers (Chris Burn)
Leo CD LR 102 Ganelin/Tarasov/Chekasin Catalogue: live in East Germany
Acta 12 Navigations (Chris Burn Ensemble)
Music and Arts CD-1003 gryffgryffgryffs: the 1996 Radio Sweden concert
(Guy/Crispell/Strid/Gustafsson)
Nuscope Recordings CD 1001 Passing waves (Van Hove solo)
Intakt 024 Theoria (LJCO)
Intakt 041 Ode (LJCO)
Door Opens at 8am (Merzbow, Alien 8 Recordings): Merzbow's tribute to
free-jazz in general and free-jazz drummers in particular.
_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 14:18:20 -0400
From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu
Subject: Re[2]: electroacoustic music
Whit wrote the below and much other interesting stuff besides:
>i've never been too thrilled by a
>performer standing behind a piece of electronics
Granted this is clearly a matter of personal taste (though it reminds
me of Braxton's comment re: 'sweat factor'), it got me to thinking of
one of my all-time favorite pieces of music which, in fact, I've
never, um, seen performed live: Alvin Lucier's "I am sitting in a
room". I'd imagine a performance of this is simply the composer (or
someone else? Has this been performed by others with varying speech
patterns, no stutter, etc.? If so, would something be lost?) reciting
the text one time into a preset looping tape recorder, then sitting
back and listening to the room work its magic.
Would this be any the less beautiful or fascinating to experience live
because the performer is simply sitting there? (or gone out for a
smoke?)
Brian Olewnick
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 12:02:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: Eric Martens <ericmartens@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: solicitations in excelsis
- --- Scott Handley <c123018@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Door Opens at 8am (Merzbow, Alien 8 Recordings):
> Merzbow's tribute to
> free-jazz in general and free-jazz drummers in
> particular.
Highly recommended ... not nearly as dense as some
Merzbow I've heard, but fascinating nonetheless ... at
times it almost resolves itself into s/th I could
imagine non-noise-lovers getting into. Personally,
I've found that the Merzbow albums I enjoy the most
are the ones, like this, that have a fairly accessible
sonic/thematic framework, but maybe that's just me.
Also, can anyone recommend Merzbow's "prog" album,
"Aqua Necromancer," also on Alien8?
Eric
listening to: She-Satellites (Nic Endo): Poison Lips
===
Free music (more forthcoming):
http://www.mp3.com/discodown
http://www.riffage.com/Bands/1,2939,828,00.html
http://www.mp3.com/NoiseintheNetComp
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 15:27:02 -0400
From: Mike Chamberlain <mikec@rocler.qc.ca>
Subject: Re: recent goodies (otomo edition)
JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 8/16/99 9:17:47 PM, mikec@rocler.qc.ca writes:
>
> << Mike Chamberlain wrote:
> >
> > > WRT O'Rourke, I don't get it. I mean, I don't get what's so interesting
> > > about Jim O'Rourke. So he's getting pretty sounds out of a computer
> > > which he's programmed for each of the various "performers" that he
> > > appears with. I'm supposed to be impressed by this?
> >
> > Well, if you want put it that way... I take it you *are* impressed when
> people blow
> > air into horns and hit things with sticks?
>
> One requires real-time virtuosity, the ability to listen and respond.
> One does not. Guess which is which >>
>
> ok, Mike, as if the phrase "performers" isn't insulting enough, now you
> regale us with this "opinion"? just like in acoustic improv, there are good
> musicians and bad musicians. there are good perfomances and bad performances.
> you don't seem too interested in distinguishing between the two, which is
> fine, but don't pass judgment on a genre that you have seemingly only dipped
> the tip of your toe into before going off and discussing the merits of maple
> syrup.
Ooooh, Jon, got under your skin, did I? No, I listen to music of all
kinds at home, where there is no visual component to appreciate. If the
music is interesting, then I don't really care that much where it comes
from or how it is made. It's all just sounds in time, if you want
reductionism.
As far as my not being interested in distinguishing between good
performances and bad performances--bullshit. Either I pissed you off
and you forgot, or you didn't read my opinion of I.S.O.
I don't mean to dismiss electronic music as "music," but I do have a
major problem with the performance aspect of it. And maybe it's just a
hangup of mine, but I do like to see people "doing" something other than
twiddling knobs. But what would I have preferred to see O'Rourke do?
It's an interesting question. I might have preferred O'Rourke/Muller if
they'd been sitting behind a curtain, which would have at least
addressed questions of performance.
>
> and if major league baseball were run like the English Premier League, the
> Expos would have been relegated to AA ball by now.
Along with the Mets, the Indians, the Braves, the Angels, the Cubs, the
Red Sox, and just about every other major league team if you want to go
back far enough. Would you pay to see the Yankees play intrasquad games
all season?
Quick, Jon, how many times have the Expos finished last in their
division since 1976? Up until 1994, they had something like the third
highest total number of regular season wins in the majors since 1977,
which is a statistic for losers, but they've been a better team than you
think. Always a bridesmaid, never the bride. Maybe you can help me
overcome my ignorance of electronic music and maybe you can overcome
your ignorance of the Expos.
>
- --Mike
- --
Mike Chamberlain
Teacher, Writer, Father, Farmer, Broadcaster, Baseball Fan, Jazz Nerd,
Bald Guy
"I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused."
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V2 #742
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