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Zorn List Digest         Friday, June 25 1999         Volume 02 : Number 685



In this issue:
-
       Re: Future Jazz by Howard Mandel
       moonraker
       Re: Question-more news for lulu,etc.
       new Dave Douglas
       Re: New Cibo Matto
       LP auction - some Zorn content, mostly free jazz/avant garde
       Re: Freedom is Wings AKA Hallalujah,Anyway
       the Ruins in Philadelphia
       Re: the Ruins in Philadelphia
       Re: hathut: the inquisition (long)
       Re: hathut: the inquisition
       Texier/off topic
       Re: VAO
       Re: the Ruins in Philadelphia
       CDs FT
       Re: new Dave Douglas
       KVD/MacArthur
       Re: VAO
       Re: KVD/MacArthur
       Re: VAO

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 22:19:50 -0400
From: Mike Chamberlain <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Future Jazz by Howard Mandel

Paul Audino wrote:
>
> Has anyone read the book "Future Jazz" by Howard Mandel?  It apparently
> contains interviews with E# and Zorn, among others.
>
It's about time somebody wrote a book like this.  The foreword, which
describe's Mandel's early music listening history in Chicago is just
wonderful writing about appreciating music.  Mandel alternates segments
of his 1984 interview with Wynton Marsalis with chapters devoted to some
of Marsalis's contemporaries, in which they talk about how they came up
the way they did, all of which neatly puts the lie to Marsalis's
assertions that 1) jazz is a narrowly defined music with strict
boundaries, and 2) people like Zorn, Murray, Blood Ulmer, etc. don't
know enough about the history of jazz.

- --Mike

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 23:57:43 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: moonraker

anyone catch mike patton & company in sf opening up for melt banana the other
night? i believe they went under the name "moonraker".  patton, a dj and the
guitarist from melt banana.

i'd love to hear a review. also if anyone happened to tape it please contact
me privately. thanks. jt

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 23:24:42 -0500 (CDT)
From: Charles Gillett <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Question-more news for lulu,etc.

On Mon, 21 Jun 1999 16:37:38, johnzorn <[e-mail]> wrote:
>  anyway, does anyone know where I can find a copy of more news for
> lulu, or deadly weapons?(mail order or in the minneapolis area)
> been looking for awhile now...any info appreciated

More News For Lulu is on the shelves at Roadrunner Records (43rd and
Nicollet), I believe.  I was just there earlier today, but I didn't
check that.  Deadly Weapons I've never seen anywhere.

I'm currently annoyed because the multimedia disc of the new Beefheart
box on Revenant doesn't work on my computer...the stupid machine
doesn't even recognize it as a CD.


- -- Charles




- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 09:47:34 +0200
From: "J.T. de Boer" <[e-mail]>
Subject: new Dave Douglas

Hi all,

some time ago someone on the list mentioned a new Dave Douglas album
on Winter & Winter, and asked if the European members already got
hold of it. Well, I'm happy to say I bought it a few days ago and
it's absolutely beautiful!
It's sold as a Douglas album, but in fact it's the Tiny Bell Trio.
These guys get better every time I hear them! The sound is also
brilliant: it reminds me of the latest Pachora release...

Get this beauty when you can!

Jeroen
Jeroen de Boer
student Arts & Arts Management
University of Groningen, The Netherlands
[e-mail]
program director Open Electronic Festival
Munnekeholm 10
9711 JA Groningen, The Netherlands
phone: [phone]
fax: [phone]
[e-mail]


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 07:21:10 -0400
From: "Heather and Jeff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: New Cibo Matto

>By the way, what about the new Cibo Matto? Are Josh Roseman and Dave
>Douglas playing? Opinions?


Yes, they are, along with Dougie Bowne and Sean Lennon who's now a member of
the band.

I don't like it as much as the debut record.  It seems like they've lost
some of their innocence and are more "profesional" now.



- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 20:03:07 +0800
From: Sibree/Wilkes <[e-mail]>
Subject: LP auction - some Zorn content, mostly free jazz/avant garde

A reminder that my latest auction list closes 25 June, midnight California
time.  Email for details.

Regards,
Billy



- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 11:59:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: William York <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Freedom is Wings AKA Hallalujah,Anyway

> >A really beautiful set [...cut...]. Even though I haven't
> >fully digested both discs, I'd say its definitely a must own.

> Gotta second this.  I was not familiar with Cora (oops!), but it's a
> great introduction, and some of the tribute pieces are just gorgeous,
> especially Dalaba's trumpet piece and a solo piano piece by Wayne
> Horvitz titled Love, Love, Love.

> > >Performers include: Fred Frith, Kazutoki Umezu, Samm Bennett, Haruna
> > >Ito, Chris Cochrane, Zeena Parkins, John Zorn, Marc Ribot, Leo Smith,
> > >Eugene Chadbourne, Masaoka Miya, Bob Ostertag, Kramer, Chris Cutler,
> > >Richard Teitelbaum.

Also Gerry Hemingway, The Ex, Roof, Iva Bittova, Barre Phillips, etc.
Excellent liner notes, although I can't figure out who wrote them except
when they're initialed.  With the way the tracks segue from one to the
next, it sounds like it could be the work of one group in the way that
it flows.  A lot of the rock/jazz/RIO-prog type hybrids are really hard to
place in terms of when or where they were recorded (a good thing), and a
lot of the songs are unavailable or at least hard to find.

Someone had mentioned Joseph Spence on this list a few weeks ago, I think.
There's a great solo cello version of a traditional ("There'll be a Happy
Meeting", I think) which the notes say was inspired by Spence.

I agree that this is very much worth getting.

WY


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 19:52:33 GMT
From: Igor Sombillo <[e-mail]>
Subject: the Ruins in Philadelphia

For fans of the Boredoms, the Ruins from Japan are playing a show in
Philadelphia with the underground grindcore band Discordance Axis from NJ.
The show will start at 7PM and will only cost $5, the place is a haven for
many underground punk/hardcore/grindcore bands.

The Ruins released a CD in 1995 on Zorn's Tzadik label. They have been
described as a mixture of jazz, noise, metal, funk, prog rock, etc. They
have also worked with Derek Bailey and released a CD as Derek & the Ruins on
Tzadik.

Anyway, they are playing on July 15th at Stalag13 in Philly. For info or
directions check their website and get in touch with one of the person in
charge. http://members.xoom.com/stalag13/

IF you want to hear samples check CDnow.

Later,
ITS

You like grind? hardcore? death metal? then go Visit the Wall of Death
Picture page @: http://members.xoom.com/hamog/

Here's the Human Remains Page:
http://members.xoom.com/hamog/hremains/


_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 16:45:29 -0700
From: "Christian Heslop" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: the Ruins in Philadelphia

Are the Ruins the same as the Pencilneck Ruins?

- ----------
> From: Igor Sombillo <[e-mail]>
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: the Ruins in Philadelphia
> Date: Wednesday, June 23, 1999 12:52 PM
>
> For fans of the Boredoms, the Ruins from Japan are playing a show in
> Philadelphia with the underground grindcore band Discordance Axis from
NJ.
> The show will start at 7PM and will only cost $5, the place is a haven
for
> many underground punk/hardcore/grindcore bands.
>
> The Ruins released a CD in 1995 on Zorn's Tzadik label. They have been
> described as a mixture of jazz, noise, metal, funk, prog rock, etc. They
> have also worked with Derek Bailey and released a CD as Derek & the Ruins
on
> Tzadik.
>
> Anyway, they are playing on July 15th at Stalag13 in Philly. For info or
> directions check their website and get in touch with one of the person in

> charge. http://members.xoom.com/stalag13/
>
> IF you want to hear samples check CDnow.
>
> Later,
> ITS
>
> You like grind? hardcore? death metal? then go Visit the Wall of Death
> Picture page @: http://members.xoom.com/hamog/
>
> Here's the Human Remains Page:
> http://members.xoom.com/hamog/hremains/
>
>
> _______________________________________________________________
> Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
>
> -
>

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 20:02:14 -0500
From: Dave Lechtenberg <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: hathut: the inquisition (long)

> 6038  VIENNA ART ORCHESTRA / CONCERTO PICCOLO
> 6073  VIENNA ART ORCHESTRA / FROM NO TIME TO RAG TIME

These are both great. If you like avant big band stuff similar
to Willem Breuker Kollektief, you'll love VAO. In fact, I like
VAO better than WBK. I find VAO stuff to be more sharply
executed than WBK (particularly No Time To Rag Time) and
avoids some the sappiness of WBK.

- -Dave

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 22:19:24 -0400
From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: hathut: the inquisition

At 01:36 PM 6/22/99 GMT, Scott Handley wrote:
>
>(understandably----Hat only deals with Cadence, apparently), but the person
>answering at Cadence told me Hat single-CDs would be $14.  Is that a good
>deal?  I mean, the on-line joints usually run old Hats for like $12.  Not to
>be a cheapskate, but...+

Cadence's currently listed prices on Hat CDs is $17 (although as recently
as March it was $14).  They've got almost everything currently in print
though.  I'll certainly be filling in some gaps if they announce a sale in
their next issue.


- --
Caleb Deupree
[e-mail]

Computers are useless; they can only give you answers
- -- Pablo Picasso

- -

------------------------------

Date: 24 Jun 1999 07:15:54 -0500
From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Texier/off topic

     Does anybody know where i can get information about Henri Texier (in
     english or spanish). And the addresses of other list about jazz?
     Please email me privately
     Thanks in advance

     Gustavo
     [e-mail]

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 11:22:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: VAO

Here I have to weigh in with an opposite comment. I haven't heard the two
CDs referred to, but the VAO, is vastly overrated IMHO. The band played a
showcase show at the Toronto Jazz Festival last year and came across as a
pretty mainstream big band, nothing more or less. The group's 20th
anniversary set on Verve also left me cold. Perhaps the VAO has
degenerated since the sets below were cut, but the praise garnered seemed
to be no more than Euro-envy.

Just because the group hails from Austria and has soloists with "foreign"
names seems to blind folks that they're hearing a European run-through of
The Boss Brass or the Vanguard Ork.

Ken Waxman
[e-mail]


On Wed, 23 Jun 1999, Dave Lechtenberg wrote:

> > 6038  VIENNA ART ORCHESTRA / CONCERTO PICCOLO
> > 6073  VIENNA ART ORCHESTRA / FROM NO TIME TO RAG TIME
>
> These are both great. If you like avant big band stuff similar
> to Willem Breuker Kollektief, you'll love VAO. In fact, I like
> VAO better than WBK. I find VAO stuff to be more sharply
> executed than WBK (particularly No Time To Rag Time) and
> avoids some the sappiness of WBK.
>
> -Dave
>
> -
>
>

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 10:13:40 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Chris Westphal)
Subject: Re: the Ruins in Philadelphia

Does anyone have any other Ruins dates?  I live near San Francisco and
would love to see them.

If you're in the area, this Fri/Sat the Boredoms are playing at Slim's.
See you there.

 - Chris

At 07:52 PM 6/23/99 GMT, Igor Sombillo wrote:
>For fans of the Boredoms, the Ruins from Japan are playing a show in
>Philadelphia with the underground grindcore band Discordance Axis from NJ.
>The show will start at 7PM and will only cost $5, the place is a haven for
>many underground punk/hardcore/grindcore bands.
>
>The Ruins released a CD in 1995 on Zorn's Tzadik label. They have been
>described as a mixture of jazz, noise, metal, funk, prog rock, etc. They
>have also worked with Derek Bailey and released a CD as Derek & the Ruins on
>Tzadik.
>
>Anyway, they are playing on July 15th at Stalag13 in Philly. For info or
>directions check their website and get in touch with one of the person in
>charge. http://members.xoom.com/stalag13/
>
>IF you want to hear samples check CDnow.
>
>Later,
>ITS
>
>You like grind? hardcore? death metal? then go Visit the Wall of Death
>Picture page @: http://members.xoom.com/hamog/
>
>Here's the Human Remains Page:
>http://members.xoom.com/hamog/hremains/
>
>
>_______________________________________________________________
>Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
>
>-
>
>
>

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 11:35:30 -0700
From: "Benito Vergara" <[e-mail]>
Subject: CDs FT

Hello folks,

Just a quick list of stuff I'd like to trade (just send your trade lists to
my email address at [e-mail]):

- - The Ghost Orchid: An Introduction to Electronic Voice Phenomena
(played three times; near-mint condition; probably the most literally
otherworldly disc you'll ever hear. Comes with a thick 23-page booklet, and
would look great on the shelf next to your Conet Project CDs)

- - Matthew Shipp Duo with William Parker: DNA
(practically brand-new; a little too abstract for improv newbies like me,
though I'm told it's the most accessible of his duo work)

- - Veruca Salt: American Thighs
(ok, maybe no takers for that one; I'll understand)

- - Paul Dolden: L'Ivresse de la Vitesse (the older pressing of the double cd,
Empreintes Digitales, 1994)
NOTE: I stupidly, stupidly, accidentally placed one of the Dolden CDs
data-side-down on a surface with the remains of a price sticker on it. A
very small bit of the glue stuck onto the CD, rendering less than a minute
of the last track unplayable. Since no used CD store will ever buy it from
me anyway, I will throw the Dolden CDs in for *free* to anyone who takes the
rest above off my hands -- hopefully you'll have better luck removing the
glue (tiny marks, but pesky as heck). The little spindles (is that what
they're called?) of the CD case are broken, too...

Again, priority will be given to anyone who can take *all of them* out of my
hands (and with a nice list of stuff for trade, of course). Traders based in
the US only, please.

And you can check out some of my eBay feedback (doesn't pertain to trading,
I know, but...):
http://cgi-new.ebay.com/aboutme/thewilyfilipino/

Later,
Ben

http://www.bigfoot.com/~bvergara/
ICQ# 12832406


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 21:15:32 -0400
From: Alan Lankin <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: new Dave Douglas

"J.T. de Boer" wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> some time ago someone on the list mentioned a new Dave Douglas album
> on Winter & Winter, and asked if the European members already got
> hold of it. Well, I'm happy to say I bought it a few days ago and
> it's absolutely beautiful!

I've heard that it's supposed to be out in the U.S. in Augusts.  I'm
looking forward to hearing it.

Alan
http://home.att.net/~lankina/jazz/upcomingcds.html

- --
Alan Lankin
[e-mail]
http://home.att.net/~lankina/jazz

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 21:29:42 -0400
From: Brian Olewnick <[e-mail]>
Subject: KVD/MacArthur

In case anyone here's not heard (those z-listers who don't lurk at rmb),
Ken Vandermark has been given a MacArthur grant, the so-called "genius"
grant that's previously been accorded to, in the jazz communtiy, Cecil,
Braxton, Max Roach, Ornette and Lacy. The award is for something over
$250,00 and comes with no strings attached. Great news, imo; one very
deserving fella.

Brian Olewnick

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 20:39:56 -0500
From: Dave Lechtenberg <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: VAO

Ken Waxman wrote:
>
> Here I have to weigh in with an opposite comment. I haven't heard the two
> CDs referred to, but the VAO, is vastly overrated IMHO. The band played a
> showcase show at the Toronto Jazz Festival last year and came across as a
> pretty mainstream big band, nothing more or less. The group's 20th
> anniversary set on Verve also left me cold. Perhaps the VAO has
> degenerated since the sets below were cut, but the praise garnered seemed
> to be no more than Euro-envy.
>

The only VAO albums that I have are the two Hat Arts I mentioned
plus Blues For Brahms. All recorded over 10 years ago. I haven't
heard anything more recent from them so I can't say if they've
degenerated,
but I wouldn't call any of the three that I have mainstream. For
instance,
From No Time To Rag Time has variations on pieces by Anthony Braxton,
Ornette Coleman and Roswell Rudd. Not your usual mainstream fare.
Nor is Lauren Newton a traditional jazz vocalist. VAO stuff is
more composed than say London Jazz Composer's Orchestra so if you
like your big band to be more freely improvised, then I can see
where you're coming from.

> Just because the group hails from Austria and has soloists with "foreign"
> names seems to blind folks that they're hearing a European run-through of
> The Boss Brass or the Vanguard Ork.
>
> Ken Waxman
> [e-mail]
>
> On Wed, 23 Jun 1999, Dave Lechtenberg wrote:
>
> > > 6038  VIENNA ART ORCHESTRA / CONCERTO PICCOLO
> > > 6073  VIENNA ART ORCHESTRA / FROM NO TIME TO RAG TIME
> >
> > These are both great. If you like avant big band stuff similar
> > to Willem Breuker Kollektief, you'll love VAO. In fact, I like
> > VAO better than WBK. I find VAO stuff to be more sharply
> > executed than WBK (particularly No Time To Rag Time) and
> > avoids some the sappiness of WBK.
> >
> > -Dave
> >
> > -
> >
> >
>
> -

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 00:41:17 -0400
From: Mike Chamberlain <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: KVD/MacArthur

Brian Olewnick wrote:
>
> In case anyone here's not heard (those z-listers who don't lurk at rmb),
> Ken Vandermark has been given a MacArthur grant, the so-called "genius"
> grant that's previously been accorded to, in the jazz communtiy, Cecil,
> Braxton, Max Roach, Ornette and Lacy. The award is for something over
> $250,00 and comes with no strings attached. Great news, imo; one very
> deserving fella.
>
> Brian Olewnick
>
> -

He's doing OK--and his wife's a doctor, to boot.  Oh yeah, I think you
meant over $250,000; otherwise it has only prestige value. :-)

- --Mike

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 08:20:09 -0400
From: Alan E Kayser <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: VAO

Ken Waxman wrote:

> Here I have to weigh in with an opposite comment. I haven't heard the two
> CDs referred to, but the VAO, is vastly overrated IMHO. The band played a
> showcase show at the Toronto Jazz Festival last year and came across as a
> pretty mainstream big band, nothing more or less. The group's 20th
> anniversary set on Verve also left me cold. Perhaps the VAO has
> degenerated since the sets below were cut, but the praise garnered seemed
> to be no more than Euro-envy.

Well, as a matter of fact, the band has degenerated over the last ten years
or so.  I have all of their recordings except the discarded 20th Anniversary
(bad) and the recent Gershwin (worse).  Their HatArt's are all terrific, as
is their output on Moers and on Amadeo.  The Verve catalog is the weak
material, and marks the slide downward.  The band changed personel
drastically during their Verve stay, and did become more mainstream.

I suppose it would have been difficult to keep so many high quality players
together over a twenty year period, but Mr. Reugg is to be commended for the
many fine albums that the band produced.  IMHO, much superior to the Breuker
output.  On a par with another excellent Euro-bigband, the Pierre Dorge New
Jungle Orchestra.  They are still active, too, but have, like the VAO, slid
from their best work.

Alan E Kayser


>
>


- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V2 #685
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