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Zorn List Digest        Tuesday, March 9 1999        Volume 02 : Number 614



In this issue:
-
       Dragibus
       Brian O's reviews
       intergalactic maiden ballet
       Re: Recent Swag (no Zorn content whatsoever)
       Re: Brian O's reviews
       Re: Brian O's reviews
       Re: Stangl
       Quiet Sun "Mainstream"
       Vandermark
       Whitecage; was Re: Vandermark
       RE: Whitecage; was Re: Vandermark
       opinion on Ambarchi/Avenaim on Tzadik?
       Re: Quiet Sun "Mainstream"
       Caifanes/Ribot
       gettin' off topic: how to do it
       Re: gettin' off topic: how to do it
       Re: Brian O's reviews

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 22:30:21 -0800
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Dragibus

I've been meaning to post about this band for ages.  As some of you may
have figured out from my infrequent posts here, I spend more time with
"pop" (even I don't know what that term means anymore) than with the music
that this list usually concerns itself with.  I visited some friends in
Paris last spring who run an indiepop mailorder service, and they turned me
onto this band, whose records they had been thinking about carrying, but
ultimately (I think) decided not to, as it seemed it might be a bit too
much for the popkids.

What am I talking about?  Dragibus, of course.  A small French collective
who do what might be loosely described as avant garde music for children.
I'm really not sure whose idea of children's music it is, and unfortunately
(?) I don't have any kids handy to test it out on.  The songs are often
based on nursery rhymes (in quite a few languages, French and English being
predominant), but the interpretations get pretty manic.  The female vocals
tend to sound like they're coming from a three year old (probably the case
for the "guest" vocalists, but I suspect that the main singer is more or
less fully grown), and here and there you'll hear some male vocals which
sound like they must be coming from Daddy.  Instrumentation, when it's
there, is predominantly very heavy drumming and bass guitar.  A lot of toys
and samples turn up too.  There's actually a hell of a lot of variety, if
not schizophrenia.  Which figures, for a band which puts 48 tracks on a CD
and 7 tracks on a 7".  It's all potentially very annoying, but if you're in
the mood for some very abrasive kiddie pop, it's fabulous.  If you liked
Andr=E9 Popp...just imagine it being done by five-year olds.

The first CD is called "Barbapoux".  The 7" (all exclusive tracks) is "O
Draga=F5 M=E3gico" (yes, the title track is a psycho Portuguese version of
"Puff the Magic Dragon").  Both are released in France as part of the PoPo
Classic Collection, and feature some very colorful packaging.  There's a
new album, "Papriko" out in Japan on Uplink, but I haven't heard it yet.
According to the band, it'll soon be released in France as well.  And
they've been commisioned for a modern dance performance for children, as
well as doing music and voices for an animated series for French TV (60
films of one minute each).

If this sounds interesting to you, and you don't live in Paris (where you
could get these records in a tiny shop around the corner from where Rough
Trade used to be), try telling my friends at Cowly Owl that they should
carry these records after all, popkids be darned:  [e-mail]

Alexander
Radio Khartoum      http://www.sirius.com/~xander/rk

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 01:52:57 -0500 (EST)
From: William York <[e-mail]>
Subject: Brian O's reviews

> >      Aaly Trio w/KV             Hidden In the Stomach           Silkheart
>
> Is there anyone else out there who really doesn't like Ken Vandermark's
> playing? I love Mats Gustafsson most of the time but I find his more
> "Chicago-oriented" records like FJF's 'Blow Horn' to be pretty boring... (same

I didn't like FJF either but it wasn't really b/c of Vandermark.  I really
do like Vandermark's playing b/c like most of my fav. players (Ornette,
Tim Berne, Hemphill, Roland Kirk, etc.) he has an R & B (in the old sense)
element in his playing.  Actually, I thought there was one point on this
where Gustaffson tried some tongueing on a ballad and I didn't feel like
it worked, but overall I liked that one (the one on Wobbly Rail, that is)

> >      Orchester 33 1/3           Orchester 33 1/3               Rhiz
>
> I really like this disc a lot. I picked it up after Jon Abbey's recommendation
> (listen to this guys recs!) and had it playing non-stop for a little while. A
> really eclectic disc but remarkably cohesive (I even have trouble listening to
> a track without the conext of the others). Come on, how could you resist a

Ditto on all of that.  I got them to send this to our station and get the
feeling that a lot of people can't tell the difference between that and a
lot of that second-string post-rock from Chicago, which is too bad.  I
also heard the Shabotinski disc, and liked that too.  When I had a chance
to talk to Dr. Chadbourne at the show in Winston-Salem, NC, a couple of
weeks ago, he mentioned something by the guitarist (last name is something
like "Stanghl") that he was really impressed with.  I'm not sure what
label this is on though.

In the latest Chadbourne news, I have his "Worms with Strings" CD on Leo
which is actually dedicated to/about fecal worms and cockroaches, played
on mostly acoustic string instruments with a lot of hazy southern folky
and jazzy tinges.  The sound quality is beyond bedroom quality -very
distant.  If you couldn't say this before, you can definitely now say that
he has created a world of his own.  The next one on Leo is going to have
Ellery Eskelin among others.  Should be coming soon (along with that
interview I promised about 10 people...)

WY


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 21:06:54 +1100
From: "Julian" <[e-mail]>
Subject: intergalactic maiden ballet

Can someone comment on their album Square Dance (which features Zorn on a
few tracks)?


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 06:14:12 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Recent Swag (no Zorn content whatsoever)

In a message dated 3/9/99 1:41:16 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< Meshuggah: Destroy Erase Improve (Nuclear Blast)

 The reigning kings of complexity metal, this band very nearly convinced
 me to haul my ass out to Asbury Park, NJ for a 35-40 minute set towards
 the end of a two-day death metal fest this weekend, but they bailed out
 over this past weekend and will open for Slayer at Roseland instead.
 Can't wait.  Jagged, intricate and incredibly fast riffage wedded to a
 fierce shouter of a vocalist.  This album is at least as good as the
 newer "Chaosphere," and. with its greater variety of tempo and texture,
 maybe even a bit better.
  >>

Agreed to an extent.  Those complex riffs of _Chaosphere_ playing off of one
another throughout the life of the CD is a heart-stopper, but _DEI_ does offer
a lot more "variety", as you put it.  Overall, I tend to gravitate more toward
_Chaosphere_'s, uh, chaos.

In line with _Chaosphere_ is Fredrik Thordenal's (Meshuggah's axeman) solo
project- Special Effects, and the recently reissued CD _Sol Niger Within
Version 3.33_ on Relapse.  This is one insanely weird CD- better than all of
the Meshuggah discs i've heard.

=dgasque+

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 07:52:30 -0500
From: Tom Pratt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Brian O's reviews

> When I had a chance to talk to Dr. Chadbourne at the show in Winston-Salem, NC, a
> couple of weeks ago, he mentioned something by the guitarist (last name is
> something
> like "Stanghl") that he was really impressed with.  I'm not sure what label this
> is on though.

That would be Burkhard Stangl who plays on three tracks of the Shabotinski. He's got
a CD on Random Acoustics called 'Ereignislose Musik - Loose Music' which I've wanted
to get for a while but haven't. There's another disc on RA with Radu Malfatti,
Burkhard Stangl, Michael Moser and Werner Dafeldecker called 'Polwechsel' which also
looks interesting. Can anyone comment on these or offer up any other Stangl recs?
Thanks.

                            -Tom Pratt



- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 08:38:29 -0500
From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Brian O's reviews

At 07:52 AM 3/8/99 -0500, Tom Pratt wrote:
>
>That would be Burkhard Stangl who plays on three tracks of the
Shabotinski. He's got
>a CD on Random Acoustics called 'Ereignislose Musik - Loose Music' which
I've wanted
>to get for a while but haven't. There's another disc on RA with Radu
Malfatti,
>Burkhard Stangl, Michael Moser and Werner Dafeldecker called 'Polwechsel'
which also
>looks interesting. Can anyone comment on these or offer up any other
Stangl recs?

Polwechsel is textured, non-virtuosic improvisation, sort of in the same
league as King Ubu Orchestra (although only a quartet).  I think it's been
reissued on Hat, and would like some confirmation that the Hat and RA
release are indeed the same.  Stangl is also on the Koglmann/Konitz
Ellington release which I commented on earlier this week, where he plays in
a much more traditional style.

- --
Caleb Deupree
[e-mail]

Computers are useless; they can only give you answers
- -- Pablo Picasso

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 14:55:32 +0100
From: "Stephane Vuilleumier" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Stangl

There's a unique(?) (and sadly, now irreproducible) free improv encounter
which came out on Knitting factory:

095 - HOR-FEST: Under Cover Collection Band

    Recorded at Culturcentrum Wolkenstein, Austria on October 10, 1994

  Burkhard Stangl: guitar; Tom Cora: cello; Max Nagl: reeds; Samm Bennett=
:
  precussion; Thomas Chapin: reeds.

    1995 - Knitting Factory Works (USA), no number (CD)


Stephane

- -----Original Message-----
From: Tom Pratt <[e-mail]>
To: William York <[e-mail]>; [e-mail]
<[e-mail]>
Date: Dienstag, 9. M=E4rz 1999 14:08
Subject: Re: Brian O's reviews


Can anyone comment on these or offer up any other Stangl recs?
:Thanks.



- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 09:04:10 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Quiet Sun "Mainstream"

 Brent Burton <[e-mail]> asked

>does anyone know if this record is still in print anywhere?

The brief answer is no.

It was in print as a Japanese import in the early 90's, which is how I have my
copy. Sound is pretty good.

It was then quasi-legally reissued by Voiceprint in '96 [Phil Manzanera gave
his permission, but E.G. Records did *not* give permission] & it sold out
pretty quickly.

Sound is apparently somewhat brittle, but not totally awful.

You *might* get lucky & turn up a copy in a shop that hasn't sold their stock,
but other than that, you'll have to wait for Virgin [owner of E.G.] to decide
it's worth their while to reissue.

Don't believe Zorn, Mike Patton, or even Y. Eye play on it tho....

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 08:08:08 -0600
From: John Howard <[e-mail]>
Subject: Vandermark

>Is there anyone else out there who really doesn't like >Ken
Vandermark's
>playing?

I can't say I dislike his playing, but I rate a lot of people above him.
He isn't a particularly inspiring soloist, it seems like he would be a
decent second horn in a group, instead he leads a bunch of groups and
seems to put out a new record every fifteen minutes. I don't understand
the level of attention he gets while people like, say, Marc Whitecage,
Mack Goldsbury (where the hell is he?) or Rob Brown seem to wallow in
obscurity.  That's not really his fault, though.  john

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 09 Mar 99 09:14:13 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Whitecage; was Re: Vandermark

>I can't say I dislike his playing, but I rate a lot of people above him.
>He isn't a particularly inspiring soloist, it seems like he would be a
>decent second horn in a group, instead he leads a bunch of groups and
>seems to put out a new record every fifteen minutes. I don't understand
>the level of attention he gets while people like, say, Marc Whitecage,
>Mack Goldsbury (where the hell is he?) or Rob Brown seem to wallow in
>obscurity.  That's not really his fault, though.  john

Any pointers towards Whitecage's recent work? I used to hear him all the
time in the late 70's with people like Perry Robinson and John Fischer
and usually enjoyed his playing, though he always seemed to have a
certain shyness and lack of assertion (not one of KV's problems) that
caused his sound to tend to be subsumed by the group with whom he was
playing--not necessarily a bad quality by any means.

I've seen his name popping up on album listings more and more in the last
year or so, but haven't actually heard anything. Any recs would be
welcomed.

Brian Olewnick







- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 08:38:58 -0600
From: John Howard <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Whitecage; was Re: Vandermark

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [e-mail]
>
> Any pointers towards Whitecage's recent work? I used to hear
> him all the
> time in the late 70's with people like Perry Robinson and
> John Fischer
> and usually enjoyed his playing, though he always seemed to have a
> certain shyness and lack of assertion (not one of KV's problems) that
> caused his sound to tend to be subsumed by the group with whom he was
> playing--not necessarily a bad quality by any means.
>
> I've seen his name popping up on album listings more and more
> in the last
> year or so, but haven't actually heard anything. Any recs would be
> welcomed.
>
The most recent thing I have is called 3+4=5 on CIMP. Great Cecil
Taylor-ish stuff. I also like his playing on an old Bobby Noughton
record that also features Mario Pavone on bass. he is on a bunch of the
CIMP stuff. You're right, he is less aggressive and more in the
"wandering" style. But I like that. Also recommended on CIMP is the
Bruce Eisenbeil 9 Wings CD with Rob Brown (speaking of...)  As far as
Mack Goldsbury, the last time I heard anything by him was 1992-3(?) and
the Herb Robertson Certified album (GREAT album)  I repeat my question
to anyone who can answer...where is he now?  john

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 16:55:56 +0200
From: Telly O'Logical <[e-mail]>
Subject: opinion on Ambarchi/Avenaim on Tzadik?

Hello,

Does anyone have an opinion on Ambarchi/Avenaim's "Alter Rebbe's Nigun"
on Tzadik?




- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 10:10:18 -0500 (EST)
From: Brent Burton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Quiet Sun "Mainstream"

On Tue, 9 Mar 1999 [e-mail] wrote:

> Don't believe Zorn, Mike Patton, or even Y. Eye play on it tho....

thanks for the info.  none of those guys play on the record, but charles
hayward (this heat) does.  he also plays on the new massacre cd on tzadik.

b

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Mar 99 12:45:28 -0300
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Caifanes/Ribot

Steve Smith wrote:

>If this band sang in English, it most likely would have enjoyed
>worldwide video hits, as their impassioned '80s style hard-edged yet

I'm not quite sure about this, nevertheless I ask myself why any group
would sing their lyrics in English instead people try to learn the
language that group sings.
I always enjoyed English spoken bands or any German singer because of
their quality, not because they sing in any particular language; anyway
I appreciate your interest on all music as well, specially if Latin.
But don't worry Steve; this is not nothing personal, naturally.

On the other hand, and speaking on Latin performers I have to say that
yesterday in a friend's home I listened to an Argentine pop singer
Andres Calamaro ("Alta Suciedad"- I can't recall the label) and the
line-up included Marc Ribot on guitar on several tracks (my friend was
really surprised as it is a cd that belongs to his wife!).
Just a comment.

Hugo (who thinks that some Americans are rather lazy to learn other
languages)

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 07:48:45 PST
From: "Scott Handley" <[e-mail]>
Subject: gettin' off topic: how to do it

I've taken some pretty good hints on music and books on this site, so
what about other mailing lists?  I'm on MICC, which is for the time
pretty inactive.  And chi-improv and its cousins.  Are there any mailing
lists out there, about music or not, that are really, really worthwhile
uses of time and space?  I, myself, am interested in literature, art/art
history, "critical" "theory", pomo (argh..), nonacademic scholarship
(ZOne Books, Semiotexte, etc), and cultural theory, as well as politics,
current events, philosophy, and the like. I only list these interests
because it seems that they are all present on this list.  (Is this
rare?)  I'd love to get with some sites and/or lists that might not
exactly be Yahoo-advertised (read: annexed into the kingdom).

Thanks, and pardon the digression.

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 11:43:31 -0500
From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: gettin' off topic: how to do it

At 07:48 AM 3/9/99 PST, Scott Handley wrote:
>I've taken some pretty good hints on music and books on this site, so
>what about other mailing lists?  I'm on MICC, which is for the time
>pretty inactive.  And chi-improv and its cousins.  Are there any mailing
>lists out there, about music or not, that are really, really worthwhile
>uses of time and space?  I, myself, am interested in literature, art/art
>history, "critical" "theory", pomo (argh..), nonacademic scholarship
>(ZOne Books, Semiotexte, etc), and cultural theory, as well as politics,
>current events, philosophy, and the like. I only list these interests
>because it seems that they are all present on this list.  (Is this
>rare?)  I'd love to get with some sites and/or lists that might not
>exactly be Yahoo-advertised (read: annexed into the kingdom).

For crit theory, try the Theory Out Of Bounds list, which just started a
discussion of . To subscribe to the TOOB list, email
[e-mail] with the word "subscribe" (without quotes) in the
subject line.  After being offline for a while, the moderator's trying to
start a discussion of Jose Gil's Metamorphoses of the Body, and has
distributed a review and some quotes.



- --
Caleb Deupree
[e-mail]

Computers are useless; they can only give you answers
- -- Pablo Picasso

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 11:43:23 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Brian O's reviews

In a message dated 3/9/99 8:36:30 AM, [e-mail] writes:

<< Polwechsel is textured, non-virtuosic improvisation, sort of in the same
league as King Ubu Orchestra (although only a quartet). >>

not a bad comparison, although I think it's important to point out that King
Ubu has a major electronic component, while Polwechsel (at least on this
record) are all acoustic.

<<I think it's been reissued on Hat, and would like some confirmation that the
Hat and RA release are indeed the same. >>

yup, they're the same. I guess Random Acoustics is defunct; I've heard Gerry
Hemingway is trying to buy back his masters from them also. anyone know more
about this? Hat Now has a Polwechsel 2 on their upcoming schedule which I'm
looking forward to, along with a new Clusone Trio and a double disc of
Cornelius Cardew.

Jon

- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V2 #614
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