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Zorn List Digest     Wednesday, February 24 1999     Volume 02 : Number 601



In this issue:
-
       The "Masada-Like" Thread
       Re: Sonny Clark
       Painkiller art?
       Re: Sonny Clark
       Re: Painkiller art?
       Re: Sonny Clark/Lee Morgan
       Re: Sonny Clark/Lee Morgan
       Re: Sonny Clark/Lee Morgan
       Vision festival?
       1999 Vision Festival in NYC
       mike patton
       Fwd: Re: mike patton
       Re: mike patton
       Re: mike patton
       Re: mike patton
       Re: mike patton
       Re: Ochs
       Re: mike patton
       Angelica 1997
       Ochs
       Downtown Lullaby
       Re: Ochs
       Derek Bailey's response to Mr. Kaiser

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 17:43:23 +0200
From: Stephen Fruitman <[e-mail]>
Subject: The "Masada-Like" Thread

In a late response to the "Is there more music like Masada out
there?"-thread, and employing the broadest possible definition of the term
(doing jazzy things with traditional Jewish folk sounds), I=B4d like to
suggest an oddball little record by French musician Jean-Marc Zelwer, "La
fiancee aux yeux de bois" (Made to Measure MTM 24 CD). Zelwer is a
multi-instrumentalist (favouring accordian and clarinet) who composes
mostly for dance and theatre. "La fiancee..." is inspired by his
Polish-Jewish background. Humourous, rollicking and very melodic music with
plenty of Klezmer and East European overtones along with a touch of tango,
a little electronics, and more.

All the best, Stephen

Stephen Fruitman
Dept of the History of Ideas
Umea University
S-901 87 Umea Sweden



- -------

Bj=F6rn Olsson,
Inst. f=F6r id=E9historia,
Ume=E5 universitet
901 87 Ume=E5
tel. [phone] fax 143374



- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 12:14:51 -0500 (EST)
From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Sonny Clark

Some Jazz lore re: Sonny

He didn't quite "die" in 1963. He ODed in a club called the Showcase in
NYC. But since the owners didn't want to lose their licence, the body was
moved to a nearby apartment and then the police were called.

Bill Evans, another well-known junkie, wrote a tune for Sonny using an
anagram of his name entitled: "NYC's no lark".

Ken Waxman
[e-mail]

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 12:15:41 EST
From: "A M" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Painkiller art?

Does anyone know where Mr Zorn got the picture of the hanged guy on the
Painkiller 4-cd set?

What about the picture with the bed and the writing on the wall? What
does it mean?

I don't think Weegee took those pictures   :-)

Andy

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:11:08 -0500
From: "Heather and Jeff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Sonny Clark

>He didn't quite "die" in 1963. He ODed in a club called the Showcase in
>NYC. But since the owners didn't want to lose their licence, the body was
>moved to a nearby apartment and then the police were called.


I'd also heard that in reference to Lee Morgan.  After his common law wife
shot him at Slug's (?) they moved him into a snowbank.

JK
[e-mail]



- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 14:48:19 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Painkiller art?

In a message dated 2/23/99 12:19:00 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:

> What about the picture with the bed and the writing on the wall? What
>  does it mean?
a man named william heirens murdered frances brown in the chicago/evanston
area. he wrote on the wall

    For heAVens
SAke cAtch Me
BeFore I Kill More
I cannot control myselF

the photo is a crime scene photo

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 16:28:59 -0500 (EST)
From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Sonny Clark/Lee Morgan

Yep, it was Slug's. But still, shorterly afterwards the club closed,
which deprived Sun Ra's Arkestra, among others, a regular place to gig in
NYC.

Additionally, unlike Elvis Presley, the deaths of Sonny Clark and Lee
Morgan didn't do *anything* to advance their careers.

Ken Waxman
[e-mail]


On Tue, 23 Feb 1999, Heather and Jeff wrote:>
>
> I'd also heard that in reference to Lee Morgan.  After his common law wife
> shot him at Slug's (?) they moved him into a snowbank.
>
> JK
> [e-mail]
>
>
>

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 13:36:01 -0800
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Sonny Clark/Lee Morgan

On Tue, 23 Feb 1999 16:28:59 -0500 (EST)  Ken Waxman wrote:
>
> Additionally, unlike Elvis Presley, the deaths of Sonny Clark and Lee
> Morgan didn't do *anything* to advance their careers.

Right, specially if you assume that Elvis got unnoticed before his death :-).

    Patrice.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 15:48:21 -0600
From: Dan Hewins <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Sonny Clark/Lee Morgan

>>
>> Additionally, unlike Elvis Presley, the deaths of Sonny Clark and Lee
>> Morgan didn't do *anything* to advance their careers.
>
>Right, specially if you assume that Elvis got unnoticed before his death :-).
>

And I've heard it said (as a joke) that Peter Frampton's career went
downhill because he DIDN'T die.

Dan



- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 17:25:13 -0800
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Vision festival?

    It seems that the program of the Vision Festival is available. Could
somebody post it to the list (or give a pointer, if any)?

    Thanks,

    Patrice.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 20:43:35 -0500
From: Eric Ong <[e-mail]>
Subject: 1999 Vision Festival in NYC

This was posted to the Sun Ra list a couple weeks ago...

>The '99 lineup for the Vision-Festival festival is out!   The dates are May
>21-31st, and this year's festival is full of what looks to be knock-outs.
>
>If you would like to be added to our group-email list, which will inform
>you of any changes/deletions/additions to this year's festival, please send
>an email to  [e-mail]  and I'll add you.
>
>Keep in mind that not all acts are confirmed at this time (*represents
>tentative groups).  Our webpage will be updated just as soon as all groups
>are confirmed.  URL to follow...
>___________________________________________________________________
>
>>FRI  MAY 21
>>Sam Rivers Trio
>>Joseph Jarman
>>Hamiet Bluiett with Kidd Jordan
>>J.D. Parran Quintet
>>
>>SAT MAY 22
>>Alan Silva (VF Orchestra)
>>Leroy Jenkins (solo)
>>Sun Ra Arkestra under the direction of Marshall Allen
>>
>>SUN MAY 23
>>Matt Shipp (solo)
>>Andrew Lamb Trio
>>Manieris (Quartet)
>>
>>MON MAY 24
>>David S. Ware Quartet
>>Mark Dresser
>>Cooper-Moore (vocal-chorus)
>>
>>TUE MAY 25
>>Zeena Parkins *
>>Thurston Moore/William Hooker*
>>Jim Staley
>>
>>WED MAY 26
>>Marilyn Crispell
>>Thomas Buckner/Roscoe Mitchell
>>Raphe Malik
>>
>>THU MAY 27
>>Peter Brotzmann (Die Like a Dog)
>>Joelle Leandre/Joe McPhee/Gerry Hemingway*
>>Chris Jonas
>>Ori Kaplan*
>>
>>FRI MAY 28
>>David "Fathead" Newman
>>John Zorn / Milford Graves
>>Roy Campbell (TAZ Quartet)
>>Whit Dickey
>>
>>SAT MAY 29
>>James Blood Ulmer (Odyssey)*
>>Daniel Carter
>>Rob Brown (Quintet/Sextet)
>>Noah Howard Quartet
>>
>>SUN MAY 30
>>Fred Anderson Trio
>>John Blum
>>William Parker
>>Wilber Morris w/ Reggie Nicholson, Joe Daly, Vincent Chaney
>>
>>MON MAY 31
>>Billy Higgins
>>Warren Smith
>>Rashied Ali
>>New Jazz Doctors (Billy Bang, Abbey Radar, Frank Lowe, Ed Schuller)
>>Andrew Cyrille
>>
>>
>>********************************************************************
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>Marc Minsker
>Department of English, Graduate Studies
>University of South Carolina
>[phone]
>
>

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 00:17:22 -0300
From: "Nicolas Escandell" <[e-mail]>
Subject: mike patton

Hello! I'd like to know in wich albums have a colaboration of mike patton

Thanks
Nicolas Escandell


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 22:31:47 -0500 (EST)
From: [e-mail] (Harry Hulsizer)
Subject: Fwd: Re: mike patton

- --WebTV-Mail-1058147010-946
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H. H.


- --WebTV-Mail-1058147010-946
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    ETAsAhQxvOU/Ompq0opM6JND4YOM5OhD5QIUZDjHwXFe0jHq9eWnO/aUV+KRWZc=
From: [e-mail] (Harry Hulsizer)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 22:30:00 -0500 (EST)
To: [e-mail] (Nicolas Escandell)
Subject: Re: mike patton
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
In-Reply-To: "Nicolas Escandell" <[e-mail]>'s message of Wed, 24 Feb 1999 00:17:22 -0300
Content-Disposition: Inline
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Well, I cant give as comprehensive answer as someone else on this list
might, but I`ll start the ball rolling.....
John Zorn- Elegy
Wierd Little Boy
Anyone else want to add?

H. H.


- --WebTV-Mail-1058147010-946--

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 14:33:51 +1100
From: "Julian" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: mike patton

Zorn - Elegy
Weird Little Boy
Patton - Pranzo Oltranzista
Mr Bungle - Mr Bungle

also Naked City live shows, duo shows, trio shows, etc.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 01:15:20 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: mike patton

In a message dated 2/23/99 10:33:19 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:

> I`ll start the ball rolling.....
>  John Zorn- Elegy
>  Wierd Little Boy
>  Anyone else want to add?
>
well, i don't know if what i will mention would count as collaborations, but i
would add the 1st mr bungle record (zorn plays on a couple tracks), leng t'che
(although patton may only get thanked, he may not perform), and the 2 patton
solo records that r on tzadik. the 1st one (adult themes 4 voice) is solo vox
(exec produced by zorn). the 2nd (pranzo oltranzista) features zorn as part of
the ensemble. i'm sure i'm missing some...

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 02:19:58 PST
From: "Douglas Clarke" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: mike patton

>Nicolas Escandell wrote:

>I'd like to know in wich albums have a colaboration of mike patton

Well, if you would like a comprehensive list, here we go:

- -All Faith no More recordings since "The Real Thing"
- -All Mr. Bungle releases (4 demos, 2 albums, 1 live ep, several
bootlegs)
- -Fantomas (First album coming soon) w/Dave Lombardo, Buzz Osborne, and
Trevor Dunn
- -Maldoror (First album coming soon) w/Merzbow
- -2 solo albums on Tzadik (1 solo voice, 1 w/zorn & others) and a new pop
solo album coming out on Ipecac
- -Elegy, on Tzadik, w/other bay area musicians
- -Bob Ostertag's "Fear no Love" on Avant, Patton does vocals on 2 songs
- -House of Discipline w/Bob Ostertag & Otomo Yoshihide (no studio
recordings)
- -Faith no more w/Boo-Ya tribe, 1 song on "Judgement night" soundtrack
- -Faith no More w/Sparks, 2 songs (on single and on Sparks album
Plagerism?)
- -Sepultura, vocals on 3 tracks "Lookaway", "Mine", and "Kamaitachi (not
yet released)"
- -On Milk Cult album, Patton does vocals on one track
- -Wierd Little Boy, Patton with zorn and others
- -w/Kronos Quartet, Mr. Bungle wrote song for Kronos "Success in Life"
(no, I have no recording of this)
- -Yells "Melt Bannana" on one track on Melt Bannana's "Charlie" album
- -Great Jewish Music cds on Tzadik, one song on each:
Burt Bacharach w/David Slusser & Trey Spruance
Serge Gainsburg, solo
Mark Bolan, solo under the name "Fantomas"
- -several live appearances with John Zorn, Ikue Mori, David Slusser,
William Winant, Naked City, Joey Baron, Praxis, Rova Saxophone Quartet,
and Cobra, among others...

Since this is just off of the top of my head, I may be missing some.
Feel free to add. And if anyone needs clarification on any of these
projects, let me know. I was just trying to be as concise as possible.

- - Dug

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 19:44:01 +0800
From: Jan-Wen Lu <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: mike patton

> -House of Discipline w/Bob Ostertag & Otomo Yoshihide (no studio
> recordings)

A live recording of the "Angelica" Festival in Italy '97 was released last
year.
There're two House of Discipline tracks, one Patton/Maire Goyette duo track
and an all-star jam track with Chris Cutler, Otomo Yoshihide, Patton, Bob
Ostertag, Ikue Mori, Uchihashi Kazuhisa, John Oswald, Martin Tetreault, Rene

Lussier, etc..


Jan-Wen


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 11:42:11 GMT0BST
From: DR S WILKIE <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Ochs


Anyone got the Larry Ochs "quintet for a day" cd with Dave Douglas
and Leo Smith? Opinions please...

hywel


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 04:31:47 PST
From: "Douglas Clarke" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: mike patton

Jan-Wen wrote:

>A live recording of the "Angelica" Festival in Italy '97 was released
last
>year.

Do you know where I can find this? In Germany (where I live now) or in
the U.S. (where I normally live)?

- -Doug

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 20:53:00 +0800
From: Jan-Wen Lu <[e-mail]>
Subject: Angelica 1997

> >A live recording of the "Angelica" Festival in Italy '97 was released
> last
> >year.
>
> Do you know where I can find this? In Germany (where I live now) or in
> the U.S. (where I normally live)?

The title of this CD is "Angelica 1997"(IDA 013, i dischi di angelica).
Since it
is distributed by ReR Megacorp, you can easily get it from Verge
Distribution
(Canada), Wayside Music(USA), ReR(UK) and Anomalous Records(USA).
A must for those who love sample-based music.



Jan-Wen


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Feb 99 10:12:31 -0300
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Ochs

DR S WILKIE wrote:

>Anyone got the Larry Ochs "quintet for a day" cd with Dave Douglas and
>Leo Smith? Opinions please...

Well, I picked it up a week ago amoung others and maybe I haven't
listened to it as much as it deserves (I'm really concentrated in the
last fantastic Saluzzi's Kultrum) but it is a pretty nice stuff if you
like free-blowing with intriguing arrangements; don't expect beautiful
melodies as in Douglas' "Charms of the Night Sky" or high energy
treatment as in Kaiser/Smith's "Yo Miles".
IMHO, a challenging recording that needs patience, though it's
undoubtedly worth listening.

Hugo

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Feb 99 10:50:32 -0300
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Downtown Lullaby

Though it had a positive review in Feb. Down Beat I'd like to know any
opinions as well.

Thanks in advance.

Hugo

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 10:13:08 -0500 (EST)
From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Ochs

It's What We Live's "Quintet For A Day" actually since the band is a
co-operative group of Larry Ochs (ts, sopranino s); Lisle Ellis (b) and
Donald Robinson (d).

I just got it last week, so have to listen to it more, but so far the
most impressive work is provided by the rhythm section (Elis & Robinson),
especially on the first track. From what I can see (hear) it's a fine
album, but so far, it doesn't seem as impresive as the group's last
outing on Black Saint - "What We Live Fo(u)r" which featured E-O-R plus
a different guest on each track including Glenn Spearman (ts); Paul
Plimley (p) and William Winant (vibes)

Ken Waxman
[e-mail]



On Wed, 24 Feb 1999, DR S WILKIE wrote:

>
> Anyone got the Larry Ochs "quintet for a day" cd with Dave Douglas
> and Leo Smith? Opinions please...
>
> hywel
>
>
> -
>
>

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 10:53:08 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Derek Bailey's response to Mr. Kaiser

>Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 10:49:17 -0500
>
>Dear Henry and Sasha,
>
>It seems you've been having all the fun. Now, its my turn.
>
>There has now been a large number of people, including musicians,
>engineers, regular listeners, and the mastering engineer at Town House,
>who have listened to this disc. They, without exception, agree they can
>hear nothing wrong with it. Finally, Town House, the leading mastering
>studio in London, maybe Europe, tested the master and the finished, issued
>CD and found absolutely no fault with it.

>In addition to saying the record was fine, two people on separate
>occasions said, 'What is this guy's real agenda?' So, tell us, Henry, what
>is your real agenda?

>Toby Robinson, not incidentally, is one of the most highly thought of
>engineers and has one of the best equipped studios in London. In other
>words we - that is, you two and me - are lucky he touched this project. In
>recent times, he has become a great asset, often at some expense to
>himself, to the improvising community here. He puts time aside from far
>more lucrative work in order to be available for us. Nobody has benefitted
>from his generosity more than me but it wouldn't be surprising if he had
>nothing further to do with this area of music after this, in which case
>this nonsense could damage a lot of people. But, as Toby has been badgered
>on a couple of occasions and involuntarily roped into this mess, I will
>say something about the recording. How depressing that this is necessary.

>Although you wouldn't know this, occasionally I play 'live' with DJs or
>tracks by DJs. I never go direct to the desk or anything else. Nor do I
>wear earphones. This kind of 'live' situation is what I wanted to
>replicate in the studio. No direct line, no earphones, a mike on the amp
>and one on the guitar ; one take only on each track. Which is exactly what
>Toby did for me, to my complete satisfaction. In essence, this is a live
>recording, not a studio recording. There are a number of reasons why I do
>this but the main one is musical. I want a mix of ambient and non-ambient
>sound. Integration has to be musical NOT technological and obviously so.
>THE WAY THE RECORD SOUNDS IS THE WAY I WANT IT TO SOUND. Again, it
>depresses me that I have to explain that if this record , as with just
>about every record I have ever made, is about anything it is about
>improvisation; everything else is secondary to that. Let me try and remove
>any possible ambiguity: The success or otherwise of this record depends
>almost entirely on the success of the playing. If I thought at the time
>that this end would have been better served by recording it in the street,
>I would have done so. These are what is known, in some circles, as
>artistic decisions. If you don't accept that, then what the fuck are we
>doing working together? It feels at the moment as if I'm working for the
>CIA. In fact, I explained this to Amy in NY; or possibly Sasha. Obviously
>not clearly enough. But it doesn't matter. I would have thought it was
>obvious. And for you, Henry, not to understand this, appalls me. If I made
>a similar record again, I would do it in exactly the same way. Except
>contributors would first have to prove they were at least fairly normal
>psychologically .
>
>Which brings us back to the present situation. I asked nobody to
>contribute to this thing, but each track submitted was treated,
>technically and musically, with respect. When I agreed to do this record
>nobody was granted right of veto over any part of the outcome; a condition
>I would not, in any case, have accepted. I have no intention of agreeing
>to any changes at all.
>
>I suppose I should make some comment on Henry's threat to bring about the
>end of civilsation as we know it unless this record is in some way banned.
>Henry's reference to Toby's remarks is a complete distortion. Normally, I
>would describe them as a lie, but, as Henry is obviously having trouble
>with his ears, lets assume he misheard Toby. Toby will be having something
>to say about this.
>
>For me, I want to hear nothing further about all this technical shit and
>this truly odious, grotesque behaviour.
>
>Just let me check out again that everybody understands my position on
>this: This is my record; it was made exactly as I wanted to make it, I'm
>satisfied with the results and I do not agree to any part of it being
>changed. This includes tracks being changed or removed or names being
>changed or removed.
>
>
>Thank you and good night,
>Derek Bailey

Jon

- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V2 #601
*******************************


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