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Zorn List Digest       Monday, November 2 1998       Volume 02 : Number 517



In this issue:
-
       Re: PIGPEN
       Re: Improvised Music New York 1981
       Re: Ackley/Dresser/Justin Time/Piazzola etc
       quick non-zorn related question
       Re: Ackley/Dresser/Justin Time/Piazzola etc
       Re: Keiji Haino
       Zony Mash on Naked City
       New Bob Ostertag on Seeland...
       Re: Brouwer "Estudios"
       deadly weapons
       Re: deadly weapons
       Haino at Tonic
       Re: quick non-zorn related question
       Words On "The Big Gundown"
       Re: Haino at Tonic
       percussion (was: Re: Haino at Tonic)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 08:50:58 -0800
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: PIGPEN

On Sun, 1 Nov 1998 13:15:03 +0100  "Artur Nowak" wrote:
>
> Hmm... Generally, I'm very dissapointed by Horvitz records, especially
> Pigpen and Zony Mash. I have impression, that Horvitz wants to make
> "Naked City 2", and the thing missing in his records is the power of
> Naked City. The comparsion is obvious (to me...) when listening to

But if you assume that 1+1=3 and, after some experiments, you find out
that the result is 2, would you be disappointed?

In short: you can't make the artist responsible for your assumptions :-).

    Patrice.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 11:49:43 -0500
From: Rich Williams <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Improvised Music New York 1981

> On Sun, 01 Nov 1998 15:36:46 -0500  Kevin Neales wrote:
> >
> > I just bought a used copy of Improvised Music New York 1981 on Muworks.
> > The song titles are not printed in the booklet, but are hand written in.
> > Just curious, but was this the way it was sold originally?

    It had few notes and no titles, but then again, this album was culled
from a somewhat unfocused improvised concert, and the tape was sliced
and diced by Robert Musso into bite sized chunks, so titles may be a bit
superfluous anyway.

Rich

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 12:21:48 -0500 (EST)
From: William York <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Ackley/Dresser/Justin Time/Piazzola etc

> Could it be that one?
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *** - UN CHIEN ANDALOU: Mark Dresser
>
>   Mark Dresser; Anthony Coleman; Mike Sarin.
>
>     1997 - Knitting Factory Works (USA), ??? (CD)
>
>   Note: not released yet (planned for November 1997).

I guess it has to be, but I swear they said Chris Speed instead of Mike
Sarin.  Is it possible that the Knit. Fac. made a mistake? Is the world
coming to an end? Help!


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 09:25:37 -0800 (PST)
From: Joshua A Miller <[e-mail]>
Subject: quick non-zorn related question

sorry to bother you all, but does anyone happen to know what exactly the
format is for John Cale's current tour? (solo, w/ crappy studio musicians,
etc)
thanks a lot.

- --
Joshua A Miller
[e-mail]


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 09:30:06 -0800
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Ackley/Dresser/Justin Time/Piazzola etc

On Mon, 2 Nov 1998 12:21:48 -0500 (EST)  William York wrote:
>
> >     1997 - Knitting Factory Works (USA), ??? (CD)
> >
> >   Note: not released yet (planned for November 1997).
>
> I guess it has to be, but I swear they said Chris Speed instead of Mike
> Sarin.  Is it possible that the Knit. Fac. made a mistake? Is the world

Mike Sarin being a drummer this would be a more likely lineup. Could it be a
drummerless record?

    Patrice.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 12:31:11 -0500
From: Perfect Sound Forever <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Keiji Haino

> On Sat, 31 Oct 1998 17:46:00 EST, [e-mail] sed:
>
> Friday night's two sets with Mark Dresser and Joey Baron were certainly
> fascinating, but on a purely musical level, I didn't find them exceptional.
> Before the concert, I couldn't quite conceive of how this trio would mesh
> their differing styles. What ended up being the case was that Haino pushed his
> sound toward that of Dresser and Baron, at times reminding me a bit of Wes
> Montgomery

Absolutely agree.  Keiji was definitely restrained.  Baron on the other hand was
very exciting to see and hear.  Kinda wish I would have caught one of the other
nights.

Jason

Perfect Sound Forever
online music magazine
[e-mail]
http://www.furious.com/perfect



- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 12:15:25 -0600 (CST)
From: [e-mail] (Theo Klaase)
Subject: Zony Mash on Naked City

I like the cover of Naked City's "Sex Fiend" by Zony Mash.  It's
approached in a completely new light...A different interpretation.  Same
goes for Pigpen's version of "Revolution Revelation".  Don't make the
mistake of judging these bands by Naked City's standards...just listen
to it as good fucking music!


}Theodorus--


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 10:23:26 -0800
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: New Bob Ostertag on Seeland...

    Just saw a new Bob Ostertag on Seeland and I was wondering if it was
a reissue of:

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*** -  LIKE A MELODY, NO BITTERNESS: Bob Ostertag

    1997 - My Very Own Record Label (USA), MVORL - 1 (CD)

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am asking this question because the titles are the same (except for a men-
tion, between parenthesis, that the new one is solo).

    Thanks,

    Patrice.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 13:53:37 -0500
From: Louis Schwartz <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Brouwer "Estudios"

Christian,

There are several Leo Brouwer collections available.  One a good and very
inexpensive one that includes (I think all of) Brouwer's "Estudios"
(they're a lot of fun to play aren't they?) is Naxos', *Guitar Collection -
Brouwer: Guitar Music Vol. 1* (#8553630).  It'll only set you back about 5
or 6 dollars.  The guitarist is Richard Cobo.  It's a good performance and
recording and it's easy to find.   If you check the "Naxos" section of a
local big record store you should be able to find it.

Much, much better, but harder to find and far more expensive--but, again,
let me repeat:  MUCH BETTER--is a 2 CD set of guitar etudes played by David
Tanenbaum.  It's called *Estudios* and it has the whole (all 20) of
Brower's "Estudios" plus the more commonly recorded sets by Carcassi and
Sor.  The playing on these disks is shockingly good (especially from a
technical perspective; you may find it a bit emotionally "cool").  The
recording is also excellent.  It's on GSP (GSP 1000CD).  You may need to
order it directly from GSP, but I think Amazon.com lists it as available as
a special order.  This recording makes my fingers itch to play, despite the
fact that I'll never play like that....

Another excellent, recent recording of Brouwer's works John Williams'
recording of "The Black Decameron" on Sony Classical.  It includes several
works by Brouwer in addition to the title piece, both solo and with
orchestra.  It's also beautifully played and recorded, but does not include
the "Estudios."

Happy listening!

Louis Schwartz


=======================================
Louis Schwartz
English Department
University of Richmond
Richmond, VA  23173

[phone]
[e-mail]

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 10:58:32 -0800 (PST)
From: Eric Martens <[e-mail]>
Subject: deadly weapons

I'm a new subscriber & I'm sure this has been covered before, but the
local (Cola. SC) used CD place has had a copy of this for several
months that I keep almost buying; I'm wondering: wd. my $10 be better
spent elsewhere?




==
"When you said that I wasn't worth talking to, I had to
yake your word on that." -- Liz Phair


_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 11:14:58 -0800
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: deadly weapons

On Mon, 2 Nov 1998 10:58:32 -0800 (PST)  Eric Martens wrote:
>
> I'm a new subscriber & I'm sure this has been covered before, but the
> local (Cola. SC) used CD place has had a copy of this for several
> months that I keep almost buying; I'm wondering: wd. my $10 be better
> spent elsewhere?

Hard to answer your question not knowing from where you come and what
attracts you in Zorn's output.

This is a very enjoyable record made, mainly, of songs, but all with
something twisted. It shows one of Zorn's first "straight" way of
playing alto. A record with a lot of charm. Not at the top of a
buying list, but not far from the top of a playing list :-).

    Patrice.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 16:22:15 -0500
From: David Keffer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Haino at Tonic

>From: [e-mail]
>Subject: Keiji Haino
>
>Well, here's a quick recap of the first two nights of the NYC three-night
>Haino festival:...
>
>I'm not attending tonight, but I'd love to hear about it.
>

I attended the last two nights performances.  On the third night Haino
performed in a
variety of duos, trios, and quartets selecting partners from five musicians:
Min Xiao-Fen (pipa), Andy Haas (didgeridoo), Kramer (5-stringed electric bass
guitar), Josh Roseman (trombone), and Cyro Baptista (about a dozen different
instruments, mostly percussive in nature).  The ensemble changed for every
song.

Of these groups, all were improvisational and the success ranged from
spectacular
to relatively miserable.

Spectacular ensembles first:
Min Xiao-Fen on pipa, Haino dancing with two tambourines.
This was the closer of the second set.  Haino timed his dance to the
playing of Min, sort of like a marionette with Min pulling the strings,
except the strings were pretty tangled.  The dance itself was terrifically
energetic.  Lots of leaping and flailing, motion and premonitions of motion,
and motions begun and retracted before they were completed.  I felt that
the crowd was
charged with excitement and awe when it was done.

Andy Haas on didgeridoo and Haino on hurdy gurdy.  this was just a great duet
which created a soundscape where I was just delighted by the interplay of the
low-frequency drone of the didgeridoo and the high frequency drone of the
hurdy-gurdy.  It was an unlikely pairing of instruments (has there ever in
history
been a didgeridoo/hurdy gurdy duet?) and it was something to hear.

Haas on didgeridoo, Baptista on percussion, Haino on voice only.
The highlight of this was Haino's voice.  His shrieks over the backing
instruments had to be heard to be believed.  I don't believe any of
his recordings have captured the range he displayed in Tonic on Halloween.

Dense ensembles second:
The quartets were mostly dense.  Min/Haas/Baptista with Haino on guitar,
Min/Roseman/Haas with Haino on hurdy gurdy, Roseman/Haas/Baptista with
Haino on guitar.
These improvisational pieces hit really screeching heights.  For spots,
the group would get in synch but in between the synching, there was some
true blue cacophony.  The quartets were fun and loud and energetic and Haino
was great but I was a  little disappointed with parts of the quartets
because Haino's guitar and Haas's didgeridoo dominated too much.  The pipa
was like
a bird battered around by a storm and the trombone was also struggling to
find it's place,
much of the time.  The pipa and trombone have naturally beautiful sounds,
however,
I didn't hear those sounds during the quartet.  I just heard vague,
tentative intimations
of the natural sounds so...I was disappointed by the manner in which those
instruments were able
to contribute to the quartets (most of the time).

Miserable ensembles last:
There were two points where I thought the music came up short.  I know that
experimentation is the soul of improvisation but...some experiments fail.
The first trombone/guitar duet fell flat.  It appeared to me that the trombone
player was overwhelmed by the task of accompanying Haino.  He was not
confident
enough to lead Haino and he could not follow Haino's lead.  They ended that
duet after a
couple minutes.  When the trombone player reappeared with the quartet, he
was able to better key off Baptista or someone else and was thus able to
get into
synch with the other players and really make the trombone part of the
active music.

Finally, I had never seen Baptista play before (I've heard him on various
Zorn-related releases) but I was really unimpressed at his live performance.
He had a dozen instruments and he would switch between them each minute,
sometimes
playing all twelve instruments in a single piece.  The change of
instruments (from
banging buckets, to maracas, whirlies, sheets of ridged metal, a vina, some
type
of small xylophone, etc.) introduced new sound to the music but I felt that
the
whole presence of Baptista was as a novelty gag--like, "Let's see what new
gimmick can be added to the sound".  He would start playing and, to his
credit, he could
get in synch with the rest of the ensemble almost instantly, but I still felt
like I was watching a gimmick, (which would have helped the music if it had
been
boring, but since it was not, just detracted from it).  Worse yet, he was
featured
pretty loudly in the mix, which didn't help anything.  Lastly, there was one
quartet, where Haino first began to sing on Saturday night.  He had sung
one extended
syllable when Baptista began to make the sorts of noises one can make with
one's mouth
that are typical of rap.  Puh-puh-puh is the best onomatopoeia I can come up
with to describe it.  It startled the crowd and shut Haino up immediately.
I had come
to hear Haino sing; I wanted that rapping idiot to get off the stage
immediately.
Perhaps I am too severe in my judgments.

Anyway, so went the last night of Haino at Tonic.  Without reseravtions, I
can say
I was delighted to have been able to see it.

David "please take my severe opinions with a grain of salt" K.



- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 14:11:10 -0800 (PST)
From: Joshua A Miller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: quick non-zorn related question

> > sorry to bother you all, but does anyone happen to know what exactly
> the
> > format is for John Cale's current tour? (solo, w/ crappy studio
> musicians,
> > etc)
> > thanks a lot.
> I don't know, but does anyone have a dates/venues for this? (saw Cale
> once 2-odd yrs ago, wd. love to again)

the only date i know of is November 5th at the El Rey in Los Angeles


- --
Joshua A Miller
[e-mail]


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 14:40:57 PST
From: "John Dikeman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Words On "The Big Gundown"

A while ago I let a guitar playing friend of mine borrow "The Big
Gundown."  Not only did it excite and scare the living shit out of him,
he picked up some of what Bobby Previte was "saying" about halfway
through.  He knew French and said he picked out:

"I do not know the Monkey!" Just before that monkey scream thing Previte
does.
Does anyone out there know everything he said?
Also, THis friend of mine wondered if there was any place to get sheet
music for "Once Upon A Time In The West."  I told him to transcribe it,
but promised I'd ask.  Anybody know where you could get this?

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 17:49:20 -0500
From: Brian Olewnick <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Haino at Tonic

David Keffer wrote:

[fine review snipped; thanks, Dave]

> Finally, I had never seen Baptista play before (I've heard him on various
> Zorn-related releases) but I was really unimpressed at his live performance.
> He had a dozen instruments and he would switch between them each minute,
> sometimes
> playing all twelve instruments in a single piece.  The change of
> instruments (from
> banging buckets, to maracas, whirlies, sheets of ridged metal, a vina, some
> type
> of small xylophone, etc.) introduced new sound to the music but I felt that
> the
> whole presence of Baptista was as a novelty gag--like, "Let's see what new
> gimmick can be added to the sound".  He would start playing and, to his
> credit, he could
> get in synch with the rest of the ensemble almost instantly, but I still felt
> like I was watching a gimmick, (which would have helped the music if it had
> been
> boring, but since it was not, just detracted from it).

You hit on a long-standing pet peeve of mine and describe it very well.
I can't begin to count the number of times I've experienced exactly this
approach. Something of the sort occurred at the Zorn chamber ensemble
concert I saw a couple of weeks ago, though the culprits were Winant and
Pugliese. A couple of the pieces ('Music for Children' was one) seemed
(I'm guessing) to allow for a bit of latitude on the part of the
percussionists and, though they did so with enthusiasm and some
imagination, it had a tang of, "Hmmm, let's hit this bowl, now this
gong, how about scratching this guiro, maybe whirling this noisemaker,
etc.) Now it might be that this was all somehow cued by JZ, but the
effect was the same. The best antidote I know for this 'percussion
sampling' approach is the work of Jerome Cooper, particularly incredible
records like 'Root Assumptions' (on About Time). Cooper used to (and may
well still--haven't caught him live for a while) do 15 or 20 minute
pieces for very a circumscribed arsenal, say bass drum, sock cymbal and
balaphon. By concentrating on just these (or fewer) aspects of his set,
he'd wring out an astonishing amount of musicality. Zorn's shown himself
capable of working within severe limitations in pieces like 'Dark
River'; wish he'd do more of that.

This said, Baptista is usually, when I've seen him, not guilty of this
particular crime. With the Bar Kokhba ensemble last month he was his
typically open-eared, amazing self.

Brian Olewnick

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 17:53:26 -0500
From: Tom Pratt <[e-mail]>
Subject: percussion (was: Re: Haino at Tonic)

Brian Olewnick wrote:
>
> You hit on a long-standing pet peeve of mine and describe it very well.
> I can't begin to count the number of times I've experienced exactly this
> approach. Something of the sort occurred at the Zorn chamber ensemble
> concert I saw a couple of weeks ago, though the culprits were Winant and
> Pugliese. A couple of the pieces ('Music for Children' was one) seemed
> (I'm guessing) to allow for a bit of latitude on the part of the
> percussionists and, though they did so with enthusiasm and some
> imagination, it had a tang of, "Hmmm, let's hit this bowl, now this
> gong, how about scratching this guiro, maybe whirling this noisemaker,
> etc.) Now it might be that this was all somehow cued by JZ, but the
> effect was the same. The best antidote I know for this 'percussion
> sampling' approach is the work of Jerome Cooper, particularly incredible
> records like 'Root Assumptions' (on About Time). Cooper used to (and may
> well still--haven't caught him live for a while) do 15 or 20 minute
> pieces for very a circumscribed arsenal, say bass drum, sock cymbal and
> balaphon. By concentrating on just these (or fewer) aspects of his set,
> he'd wring out an astonishing amount of musicality.

Another good example of great percussion music made with a limited
arsenal is Le Quan Ninh's solo 'Ustensiles' disc on For 4 Ears. It's
amazing how can make music made with like 3 bowed cymbals and a block
sound so much freer than someone with the many sound options of a full
drumset. Wonderful player...

                -Tom Pratt

- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V2 #517
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