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Zorn List Digest     Thursday, September 24 1998     Volume 02 : Number 474



In this issue:
-
       4+1 Ensemble
       Re: 4+1 Ensemble
       Collecting/listening methods
       Re: Collecting/listening methods
       Re: Liliput
       Collection arrangements
       Re: Collection arrangements
       Re: Collection arrangements
       Recent Goodie
       Re: Collection arrangements
       Re: Collection arrangements
       Re: Collection arrangements
       Re: Collection arrangements
       RE:freefall
       RE:Freefall
       Hornby's "High Fidelity"
       RE: Collecting/listening methods
       Re: collecting music

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 12:59:47 -0400
From: Bob Kowalski <[e-mail]>
Subject: 4+1 Ensemble

- --------re : From: "Julian" <[e-mail]> / Subject: 4+1
horvitz / Any thoughts on Horvitz's 4 Plus 1 Ensemble? - ----- ----

Wayne has done himself proud on this latest release, which imho is
excellent.  Don't look for any shronking noise fest though -- more in line
with his previous solo album (which I can't remember title of but which I
do also recommend.)

happy listening

Bob

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 10:21:45 -0700
From: David D Egan <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: 4+1 Ensemble

Bob Kowalski wrote:
>
> --------re : From: "Julian" <[e-mail]> / Subject: 4+1
> horvitz / Any thoughts on Horvitz's 4 Plus 1 Ensemble? - ----- ----
>
> Wayne has done himself proud on this latest release, which imho is
> excellent.  Don't look for any shronking noise fest though -- more in
> line
> with his previous solo album (which I can't remember title of but which
> I
> do also recommend.)
>
> happy listening
>
> Bob

Wayne's earlier solo release is "Monologues".  I concur - both
Monologues and the new 4+1 disc are of a kind, and excellent.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 14:05:16 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Collecting/listening methods

At 09:44 AM 9/24/98 -0400, Mark Saleski wrote:
>at one point one of them talks about how he reorganizes his collection
>when something
>upsets him greatly. imagine organizing by _date of purchase_!

Uh oh, as it turns out, a major part of my collection is filed that way, but
not so much by design as by listening method. By way of explanation:

Like many Zorn-listers, I am constantly acquiring new recordings, and like
many
Zorn-listers, I have a very limited amount of free time for listening, with a
job
or two, a family, etc. In fact, I'm lucky if I get one solid hour per week to
just sit down, turn out the lights, and focus on a recording. And even if I
only acquired one CD per week (and on average, the number is much higher), I
wouldn't have the time to listen even once to a new purchase before stowing
it away in the collection, and one listening, if something is worth owning,
is not necessarily adequte anyway. I know for many, simply owning it is
enough,
but that's not me. I like to know what I have by the music, not simply by the
label and number. And sure, I can pop plenty of stuff on as background music,
but reading "Stuart Little" to my 5-y/o with "Machine Gun" in the background
just doesn't cut it for anyone involved.

I have worked out a sick little system for myself that everyone I know finds
at least
a bit weird, if not downright compulsive and nuts, but here it is, after 20
years of doing it.

When I buy a disc, I try to give it at least a cursory listening to get a feel
for it
and make sure it isn't defective. It isn't neccessarily a concentrated
listening, often just a background listen while at work or while getting
ready for work, etc. Then the disc "gets in line." What this means is that
every disc I acquire is eventually gets taped for Walkman or car listening, in
the
order in which it was acquired. I have four cassettes in rotation for this
purpose, 2 in the car, 2 for the Walkman. Every CD eventually ends up on one
of these tapes for either 6 listenings (if the compositions are things I'm
familiar with, such as standards), or 10 listenings (if there are unfamiliar
songs or pieces). For the car, I keep track of the number of listenings using
a notepad, and
with the Walkman, with each "new" tape, I take 6 or 10 thin pieces of scotch
tape, double back the ends, and put them on the Walkman, removing one with
each listening (that's where people usually start wondering about me). Since
I spend 2 1/2 hours per weekday on a bus or train, and several hours each
weekend in the car, my car deck and Walkman are the "stereo components" I end
up listening to the most. Sure, neither the train nor the car are ideal
listening environments, but you take what you can get. I actually am able to
focus pretty seriously on what I am listening to in both locations.

This way, I become familiar with everything I buy before it enters the body
of my collection, and when I do get some time to sit back and do some at-home
quality listening, I don't feel guilty if I don't choose a recent purchase
that I haven't given enough time to, since I know it will get its chance
later. "Later," however, at this point is approximately four years, the lag
time
between purchase and car or Walkman. There are 10 shelves worth of CDs
waiting in line, but eventually they all get there. Sometimes, however, I do
get so hooked on a recent purchase and listen to it so incessantly that it
"graduates" into the collection without a turn in the car or Walkman.
Of course, the 4-year lag does mean that ocassionally I
might not be quite as enthusiastic about something now than I was when I
bought it, since there can be subtle, and not so subtle, changes in taste
over 4 years. On the other hand, it can also mean that I get that little
rush, that little thrill, that you get when first purchasing something all
over again 4 years later, because it almost feels like I'm just purchasing it
as it enters the Walkman.

This is the way that I have managed a collection of 15,000 or so recordings
(jazz, classical, bluegrass, whatever) and actually knowing what they sound
like!  Of course, my fantasy is to be filthy rich with no responsibilities,
and be able to do nothing but listen for 9 hours a day. So, if you have any
suggestions on how to achieve that, I'd be even more interested.

And I'm glad to help make many on the list feel comparitively at least a
little bit healthier, pychologically.

Dave Royko

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 11:13:34 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Collecting/listening methods

    Dave,

On Thu, 24 Sep 1998 14:05:16 EDT  [e-mail] wrote:
>
> At 09:44 AM 9/24/98 -0400, Mark Saleski wrote:
> >at one point one of them talks about how he reorganizes his collection
> >when something
> >upsets him greatly. imagine organizing by _date of purchase_!
>
> Uh oh, as it turns out, a major part of my collection is filed that way, but
> not so much by design as by listening method. By way of explanation:
> ...
> I have worked out a sick little system for myself that everyone I know finds
> a bit weird, if not downright compulsive and nuts, but here it is, after 20
> years of doing it.

Is this based on a true story or is it out of a Nicholson Baker novel?

    Patrice :-).


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 14:48:20 -0400
From: Perfect Sound Forever <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Liliput

> On Wed, 23 Sep 1998 22:57:36 -0400, Lang Thompson sed:
>
> A few years back there was a CD reissue of the complete output of Liliput.
> Foolishly, I didn't buy it at the time so does anybody still have the
> address of the label in Switzerland (?I think) or know of a US source?
>

Sad to say this is long gone- outta print.  The label that put it out, Off Course, is no longer
at the address listed on the CD and they are no longer printing the CD or have any copies of this
lying around.

Marlene, the guitarist, is hawking a book now about Liliput/Kleenex that has a lot of great
stories and press clippings.  See http://www.furious.com/perfect/liliput.html for details.

Best,
Jason
- --
Perfect Sound Forever
online music magazine
[e-mail]
http://www.furious.com/perfect



- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 11:53:54 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Martin Wisckol)
Subject: Collection arrangements

Enjoyed hearing of the guy who arranged his music by date of purchase.
Reminded me of a guy who used the chaos theory -- no order whatsoever,
despite a couple thousand LPs. How did he find what he wanted? "I just
start looking for it. Sometimes I find it but usually I first come
across something else I want to hear, something I hadn't thought of. ''

Any other interesting arrangement schemes? I'm still in the old
fashioned category approach, although I've merged rock with r&b, and
given laswell his own section (includes most axioms and laswell's
cohorts). But as the music grows ever more promiscuous sytlistically,
it's getting kind of sticky. Easy enough to put Naked City under Z
under jazz but does Jai Uttal and the Pagan Love Orchestra go under
India?

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 15:07:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: Brent Burton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Collection arrangements

On Thu, 24 Sep 1998, Martin Wisckol wrote:

> Any other interesting arrangement schemes?

i know a guy who organizes his cd collection by the color of the spine.

b

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 14:43:11 -0500
From: Dan Hewins <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Collection arrangements

>Any other interesting arrangement schemes?

I used to have my jazz discs arranged by leader's insrument.  I started off
with trumpet, had my Miles section there near Lee, Dizzy, Clifford, etc.
Moved to trombone, as, ts, other reeds, piano, bassists, drummers.  I also
ended up seperating artists like Zorn, Frisell, Previte, Horvitz, and other
contemporary guys into their own area.  Needless to say, my roomate could
never find anything in my collection.  I liked it though.  I liked having
all the Tzadik discs near eachother.  Anyhoo...

Dan Hewins



- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 19:13:30 +0200
From: "Felix" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Recent Goodie

I got John Lindberg's "Bounce" today, featuring D. Douglas, and it
Transformed My Ass! :)
Really, it's good, sometimes it gets really wacky!

I know what some of you mean when you talk about albums that just sit on the
shelf. People are, by nature, dynamic (most people anyway) and some of us
end up changing musical tastes. I used to love Death Metal and Grind Core,
and now I have a bunch of tapes, vynils and some CD's which I hardly ever
listen too anymore. But I enjoyed them in the past and will keep them as a
reminder of my musical past.

Anyway...

Felix
[e-mail]


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 98 15:07:24 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Collection arrangements


Martin wrote:

>Any other interesting arrangement schemes? I'm still in the old
>fashioned category approach, although I've merged rock with r&b, and
>given laswell his own section (includes most axioms and laswell's
>cohorts). But as the music grows ever more promiscuous sytlistically,
>it's getting kind of sticky. Easy enough to put Naked City under Z
>under jazz but does Jai Uttal and the Pagan Love Orchestra go under
>India?

        As, since I confessed before, I listen straight through, I find that a
strict alpha listing works nicely, jumbling together styles having little or
nothing to do with each other. As I'm entering, appropriate to this list, the
"Z" phase of my listening (once I get finished with the interminable LaMonte
Young!), this will include: Kalil el Zabar (I opted for "Z" rather than "E"),
"Zaire Choc!" (a collection from Zaire; when the performers are varied or
unlisted, I tend to file by country), some pre 1972 Zappa, a handful of Hector
Zazous, an Evan Ziporyn and a passel of things by some guy named Zorn.

        In fact, it was rather traumatic when my recent first purchase of a
Rabih Abou-Khalil release necessitated displacing Muhal from a long-held
position at the front of my collection. Muhal Richard Abrams: the Roger Maris of
new music.

Brian Olewnick







- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 16:44:17 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Collection arrangements

In a message dated 9/24/98 4:19:18 PM, [e-mail] wrote:

<<In fact, it was rather traumatic when my recent first purchase of a

Rabih Abou-Khalil release necessitated displacing Muhal from a long-held

position at the front of my collection. Muhal Richard Abrams: the Roger Maris
of

new music.>>

No Kaoru Abe CDs, huh?

Jon

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 13:53:28 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Collection arrangements

On Thu, 24 Sep 1998 16:44:17 EDT  [e-mail] wrote:
>
> No Kaoru Abe CDs, huh?

That's why I have been dragging my feet to buy an Abba compilation...

    Patrice.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 14:05:19 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Martin Wisckol)
Subject: Re: Collection arrangements

LOL as Abram as Maris....

Enjoying these responses -- thanks for yours. Hope you're digging Rabih
- -- I have three or four and love them all....

You mentioned Zazou -- I have one, the one with music to Rimbaud's
words, which I find exceedingly pleasant (in a good way). Any other
recommendations from Hector? Haven't searched for him on the web, but
at this moment realize I have no idea who this guy is or where he's
from or what his bio looks like.... feel free to comment.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 18:09:42 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE:freefall

Are these new improvisations or something he taped in the past? My
understanding was that Giuffre was quite ill?

Ken Waxman
[e-mail]


On Thu, 24 Sep 1998, hijk wrote:

> The 5 extra tracks are all solo improvisations taken from the same sessions
> and were previously unreleased.  Hopefully we can look forward to new solo
> recordings from Mr. Giuffre, he's considering an album of solos recorded at
> his home.
>
> Jeff Kent
> [e-mail]
>
>
> -
>
>

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 18:30:49 -0400
From: "hijk" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE:Freefall

Mr. Giuffre has been diagnosed with Parkinson's disease, but he still plays
and would like to record again.  The problem is that he works at a much
slower pace these days and may have trouble finding people to hang around
long enough to finish a project. Hence solo recordings.

Jeff Kent
[e-mail]



- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 20:34:21 -0400
From: Lang Thompson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Hornby's "High Fidelity"

All this discussion about record collecting, organizing and lists makes me
think of Nick Hornby's "High Fidelity."  It's really an exceptional novel
(despite having become a "cult" item for Gen Xers) & probably most people
on this list will easily identify with a good bit of it.

LT
- ------------------------------------------------------
Lang Thompson
http://www.tcf.ua.edu/wlt4

New at the Funhouse website:  Did Elvis Steal Rock 'n'
Roll?, The X-Files Movie Bites!, music reviews

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 18:40:17 -0700
From: "Benito Vergara" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Collecting/listening methods

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [e-mail]
> [mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of [e-mail]
> Sent: Thursday, September 24, 1998 11:05 AM
>
> I have worked out a sick little system for myself that everyone I
> know

Scary. But I'm sure other people out there have systems as well.

> Then the disc "gets in line." What this means is that
> every disc I acquire is eventually gets taped for Walkman or car
> listening, in
> the
> order in which it was acquired.

Now *that* is scary, since I do the same thing. Alas, in these days of
satisfaction-guaranteed music stores, I'm somewhat more inclined to give the
CD one good listen and if it isn't close to TYA-type music, i.e., Transform
Your Ass (this is your fault, Rick!), then it's a good candidate for return
or resale. There was a time when I had time to sit in the dark, put on the
headphones and concentrate on a CD (I went through a whole slew of Kronos
Quartet CDs this way), but alas, that time was short-lived. Now I have to do
it while reading the newspaper or something.

Anything that passed muster would be played exactly twice (crazy, huh?) on
the big stereo, and then placed in a rotating collection of 20-odd CDs,
which were eventually taped for the Walkman (when I was a lowly, car-less
grad student) or the car, in the order they were purchased. (Unless a
concert was coming up, in which case the CD was moved up the car-tape line.)
After I grow tired of the CD, I'd tape over the car tape and shelve the CD,
to be discovered later. TYA CDs, of course, would stay longer in both
rotating collection and car.

Which reminds me: I've been using the same 90-minute Maxell tape for both
Walkman and car, for the last six years!

The rotating collection would also be slightly subdivided into two
categories: CDs I could play while my wife was around, and CDs that would
probably annoy her (not that it mattered terribly, since I would play them
anyway until she would ask, "What *is* this?"), e.g. Godflesh, Painkiller,
Nurse With Wound, Naked City, Current 93, post-1965 Coltrane, Brotzmann,
etc. (ObZorn: JZ tended to fall in the latter category, except for the
Masada discs.) Thus the "annoying" CDs -- plus all the quiet stuff that
wouldn't be heard over the car's engine -- would stay in the rotating
collection longer to make up for their being deprived of their moment of
automotive glory.

> "Later," however, at this point is approximately four
> years, the lag
> time
> between purchase and car or Walkman.

About three months, for me. Enrolling in those CD clubs sure does create a
backlog!

> And I'm glad to help make many on the list feel comparitively at least a
> little bit healthier, pychologically.

Yeah, that part about the pieces of scotch tape made me sigh with relief. =)

And about those listening groups -- they sound really interesting. Any
helpful suggestions on how to organize one? Do you listen to music
thematically, chronologically, or whatever? (Respond privately if you want.)

Later,
Ben

np: david s. ware quartet, "lexicon"

http://www.bigfoot.com/~bvergara/
ICQ# 12832406


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 23:53:31 -0400
From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: collecting music

Mark Saleski wrote:

> there's a great book i read a while back: High Fidelity by Nick Hornby.

Fabulous book.  Part old/new fashioned love story, part character study of
obsessive music fans.  The quality of writing about pop music is, as these
British guys would say, "spot on."

> at one point one of them talks about how he reorganizes his collection
> when something
> upsets him greatly. imagine organizing by _date of purchase_!

No matter how upset I get about other things in life, nothing will move my
records...

Gotta find that book about collectors Jeff recommended...

Steve Smith
[e-mail]


- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V2 #474
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