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1998-08-12
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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #434
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Thursday, August 13 1998 Volume 02 : Number 434
In this issue:
-
great jewish bolan
Re: great jewish bolan
RE: great jewish bolan
zappa
Re: great jewish bolan
Re: zappa
re:zappa
anybody has 300 by Briggan Krauss?
Question regarding Phew
Re: Question regarding Phew
Re: zappa
Looking for insight
Short track listening.
Re: Question regarding Phew
Re: Looking for insight
New MMW
Re: Looking for insight
naked city video
Re: Looking for insight (t. berne)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 14:03:05 +0200 (MEST)
From: BJOERN <bjoern.eichstaedt@student.uni-tuebingen.de>
Subject: great jewish bolan
well,
anyone have any idea when the bolan tribute disc will be released???
BJOERN
www.cityinfonetz.de/uni/homepage/bjoern.eichstaedt
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 08:25:43 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Subject: Re: great jewish bolan
On Wed, 12 Aug 1998 14:03:05 +0200 (MEST) BJOERN wrote:
>
> well,
> anyone have any idea when the bolan tribute disc will be released???
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*** - GREAT JEWISH MUSIC: MARC BOLAN: various artists
This record features Arto Lindsay (1), Rebecca Moore (2), Kramer (3),
Melvins (4), Medeski/Martin & Wood (5), Lo Galluccio (6), Mike Patton (7),
Tall Dwarfs (8), Chris Cochrane (9), Gary Lucas (10), Eszter Balint (11),
Audio Noir (12), Danny Cohen (13), Elysian Fields (14), Sean Lennon & Yuka
Honda (15), Cake Like (16), Trey Spruance (17), Buckethead (18), Lloyd Cole
(19).
1/ Children Of The Revolution (Arto Lindsay)
2/ Telegram Sam (Rebecca Moore)
3/ Get It On (Kramer)
4/ Buick McKane (Melvins)
5/ Groove A Little (MM&W)
6/ Cosmic Dancer (Lo Galluccio)
7/ Chariot Choogle (Mike Patton)
8/ Ride A White Swan (Tall Dwarfs)
9/ Rip-Off (Chris Cochrane)
10/ Debora Arobed (Gary Lucas)
11/ Mambo Sun (Eszter Balint)
12/ Jeepster (Audio Noir)
13/ Lunacy's Back (Danny Cohen)
14/ Life's A Gas (Elysian Fields)
15/ Would I Be The One (Lennon, Honda)
16/ Love Charm (Cake Like)
17/ Sceneslof (Trey Spruance)
18/ 20th Century Boy (Buckethead)
19/ Romany Soup (Lloyd Cole)
1998 - Tzadik (USA), TZ 7125 (CD)
Note: not released yet (planned for September 1998).
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 10:28:15 -0500
From: "Marks, Andy" <Andy.Marks@mts.com>
Subject: RE: great jewish bolan
Anyone know what else is due for release
from Tzadik in September?
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 09:33:03 -0600
From: "M. Forrest Lewis" <louie@gwtc.net>
Subject: zappa
>I don't know anything about New York but I am glad to see a Frank Zappa
>fan on this list
ditto. zappa lives.
- -louie
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 08:37:28 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Subject: Re: great jewish bolan
On Wed, 12 Aug 1998 10:28:15 -0500 "Marks, Andy" wrote:
>
> Anyone know what else is due for release
> from Tzadik in September?
John Zorn -- Aporias: Requia for Orchestra
Patrice.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 98 12:11:07 -0500
From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu
Subject: Re: zappa
>I don't know anything about New York but I am glad to see a Frank Zappa
>fan on this list
One thing that's struck me as curious: It would seem clear that Zappa's 'Lumpy
Gravy' (and similar efforts here and there on his early records) was a direct
antecedant to JZ's cut-up efforts of the mid 80's. To the best of my knowledge,
Zorn has never acknowledged this. Does anyone know otherwise?
FWIW, I'm a FZ fan up to and including 'Burnt Weenie Sandwich' (with 'Uncle
Meat', my favorite FZ recording). After that point, he bores me to tears.
Brian Olewnick
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 15:38:19 EDT
From: <Sulacco@aol.com>
Subject: re:zappa
>FWIW, I'm a FZ fan up to and including 'Burnt Weenie Sandwich' (with 'Uncle
Meat', my favorite FZ recording). After that point, he bores me to tears.
Brian Olewnick
interesting. somehow i would have thought there are more out there who thought
his compositions got more interesting after he stopped using musicians to play
them. have you checked out civilization phase III? i would say try b4 you buy,
but check it out. not that i don't like the older stuff, but i think he got
better...
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 14:26:15 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Subject: anybody has 300 by Briggan Krauss?
I was wondering if anybody was successful to find 300 by Briggan
Krauss?
Patrice.
PS: be carefull that if you say yes, you take the risk that I will ask you for
a detailed description of the record...
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 18:06:22 -0400
From: "David J. Keffer" <keffer@shell.planetc.com>
Subject: Question regarding Phew
Hello Folks on the Zorn list,
I have a question for you all regarding the vocalist Phew.
There are a couple of relatively recent records that feature
her that I am looking for reviews on:
PHEW "Himitsu No Knife" CREATIVEMAN DISC CMDD 10, 1995
Here she is backed by a group led by Ground Zero/P.O.N.'s Uemura Masahiro,
with much backing help from Otomo Yoshihide (turntables, guitar).
NOVO TONE "Panorama Paradise" CREATIVEMAN DISC CMDD 38, >1995
A group featuring Phew (vocals), Seiichi Yamamoto (guitar; Boredoms), Otomo
Yoshihide (turntables), Masahiro Uemura (drums; P.O.N.),
All I have heard by Phew are her first self-titled album from 1981 with the
members
of CAN and the 1993 Anton Fier album "Dreamspeed" on AVANT (AVAN 009). I dug
both of these quite a bit. Any reviews positive or negative on the
Creativeman discs
would be appreciated. References to the either of the two albums I have
heard would
be useful. Thanks.
David K.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 15:20:05 -0700
From: Jeff Spirer <jeffs@hyperreal.org>
Subject: Re: Question regarding Phew
At 06:06 PM 8/12/98 -0400, David J. Keffer wrote:
>All I have heard by Phew are her first self-titled album from 1981 with the
>members
>of CAN and the 1993 Anton Fier album "Dreamspeed" on AVANT (AVAN 009).
She is on the Blind Light CD that was something of a followup to _Dreamspeed_.
Jeff Spirer
B&W Photos: http://www.pomegranates.com/frame/spirer/
Color and B&W Photos: http://www.hyperreal.org/~jeffs/gallery.html
Axiom/Material: http://www.hyperreal.org/axiom/
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 98 20:05:29 PDT
From: Seth Gordon <caliban@ctol.net>
Subject: Re: zappa
I believe that JZ mentioned Zappa in the liner notes on "The Big Gundown"-
but it might have been somewhere else. I'm at work now and don't have the
CD on me, so I can't check.
As for the early / late period FZ issue- I admit that after "Burnt Weeny"
he got a little tame (Was BWS before or after "Hot Rats"?- I dig that one
alot too.), but I think in his final yeras he put out some of his finest
work. "The Yellow Shark" had some truly beautiful moments, enough to make
up the debacle that was the "LSO" series. I think in his later days, as he
grew accustomed to the idea of himself as a composer he no longer felt it
necessary to put a little "rock" into everything (as on LSO)- to a much
more satisfying listening experience. I especially like the smaller,
chamber works for strings ("Times Beach" in particular) and the piano works
("Ruth is Sleeping" stands out, as does "Girl in the Magnesium Dress").
Granted, some of these pieces he had written upwards of a decade prior- but
I think it's the simplified arrangements that really let them shine. But
hell, that's just my opinion...
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 20:11:02 EDT
From: <TagYrIt@aol.com>
Subject: Looking for insight
Greetings all....
OK....I feel like I'm showing my ignorance here or something, but I trust the
opinions I see here (usually!). I simply do not "get" Tim Berne!!!! I've got
the following discs:
Diminuitive Mysteries (Mostly Hemphill)
Sanctified Dreams
Caos Totale - Nice View
The Paris Concert - Memory Select
The Paris Concert - Poisoned Minds
The Paris Concert - Lowlife
If someone can point me at what I'm missing, I'd appreciate it. Otherwise, the
discs will probably be on my next sale list!!
Thanks.
Dale.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 21:45:53 -0600
From: snilsen@panda.uchc.edu (Steven Nilsen)
Subject: Short track listening.
I sorta agree with what was said about finding JZ's short songs attention
draining, and ultimately aggravating. You really enjoy the musicianship,
but they're difficult to enjoy forthe frustrating lack of themes.
I found a few solutions to this problem. First, throw a disc with several
short peices in with several other CDs and play them together on random.
Much of JZ's music is fantastic spice to bring out the flavor of other
music- an occational snip between Myra and Medeski sounds super.
Second idea, one I haven't tried but think would work. Do a listening
session with a friend. Discuss each little piece, pause before the next,
with little ideas or emotional responses. Turning up the volume really
loud and doing this while tweaked could be excellent fun.
Just a few thoughts to add life to those dusty Filmworks.
- -Steven
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 23:02:21 -0700
From: Michael Howes <mhowes@best.com>
Subject: Re: Question regarding Phew
>
>NOVO TONE "Panorama Paradise" CREATIVEMAN DISC CMDD 38, >1995
>A group featuring Phew (vocals), Seiichi Yamamoto (guitar; Boredoms), Otomo
>Yoshihide (turntables), Masahiro Uemura (drums; P.O.N.),
>
>All I have heard by Phew are her first self-titled album from 1981 with the
>members
>of CAN and the 1993 Anton Fier album "Dreamspeed" on AVANT (AVAN 009). I dug
>both of these quite a bit. Any reviews positive or negative on the
>Creativeman discs
>would be appreciated.
I have and like the Novo Tono (notice it's o note e) disc and like it quit
a bit.
It's all in the "rock" world but I'd put it with the Boredoms or other VERY
tight, high energy, lots of different sounds type bands like the Boredoms.
Most of the lyrics are in Japanese.
There are a few "ambient" tracks but the more rockin tracks are very tight
borderline amazing.
Phew plays a major role and sings on most tracks. She does her spoken/sung
thing like on her solo record on a few (a pun waiting to happen) tracks.
This disc is not perfect by any means...there are some horrendous (almost
humorous) light 70s folk rock songs.
mike
mhowes@best.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 00:56:10 -0700 (MST)
From: Corey Marc Fogel <mecorey@imap3.asu.edu>
Subject: Re: Looking for insight
On Wed, 12 Aug 1998 TagYrIt@aol.com wrote:
> Sanctified Dreams
> Caos Totale - Nice View
> The Paris Concert - Memory Select
> The Paris Concert - Poisoned Minds
> The Paris Concert - Lowlife
>
> If someone can point me at what I'm missing, I'd appreciate it. Otherwise, the
> discs will probably be on my next sale list!!
here's what youre missing, Bloodcount - Saturation Point, Loose Cannon with
Jeff Hershfield and Michael Formanek, Miniature with Joey Baron, Fulton Street
Maul. own those, and maybe you'll "Get" him.
but assuming you didnt go buy those. based on what you have, what's not to
"get"? listen to his distinct compositions and the pain in his playing....and
..the end. or just sell your cds to me
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 11:40:29 -0500
From: Dan Hewins <hewins@synsolutions.com>
Subject: New MMW
Anybody else get the new MMW? I got it and I have given it quite a few
listenings. Although I like it, I think I have to agree with the
overwhelming response of my friends wh say that Billy Martin needs some new
beats. I seem to remember from the other discs that he would play
different beats here and there but this disc has him doing his trademark
groove (which, don't get me wrong, isn't bad) on the majority of the
tracks. I have to say that I like the inclusion of DJ Olive on three of
the tracks. I like what he does with the turntable. (My way into the
DJ/turntable thing has been through the jazz-er side of things, especially
the sort of music that we on this list overlap on. Take that to mean that
I am relatively new to the sub-genre and am not aware of what is and can be
done by these DJs.) He's not always scratching, using the turntable as a
rhythm instument. He uses it to play bits of the records as samples and
gets some really interesting sounds out of it. The disc as a whole is
mellower than Shack Man. I'll probably keep listening to it but I think it
will be one that I may get tired of eventually.
Well, I'm considering making the drive up to Chicago (from STL) to see
them. They'll be playing with DJ Olive, if I have my facts straight. Has
anyone seen them recently? Anyone planning on going in Chicago?
Dan
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 11:28:44 -0500
From: Dan Hewins <hewins@synsolutions.com>
Subject: Re: Looking for insight
Dale,
You're missing one of the best: Bloodcount "Unwound"
In my opinion, the Paris Concert Bloodcount albums are tame compared to
more recent Bloodcount. Jim Black seems to have changed in the time that
separates the releases -- and for the better.
"Mutant Variations" and "The Ancestors" are good discs as well.
Big Satan with Marc Ducret and Tom Rainey is kick-ass but I have to say
that, for me, the two other guys are what keep my attention rather that
Tim...
Even with these suggestions, I'm afraid that maybe you just don't/won't
like Tim Berne because "Diminutive Mysteries" is really, really good. That
is up there on my list as one of the best Berne releases.
I hope this helps,
Dan
>OK....I feel like I'm showing my ignorance here or something, but I trust the
>opinions I see here (usually!). I simply do not "get" Tim Berne!!!! I've got
>the following discs:
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 12:52:43 -0500
From: jtalbot@massart.edu
Subject: naked city video
i recently offered the "naked city marquee 4.4.92" video for trade on this
list. the copy i have is the audience shot full legth version. the quality is
good. i'm not sure how it is in comparison to the "professional" shot but the
copy i have is the full show, not the 90min version. i've been mostly
interested in trade for this video (it actually fits on two videos). i also
have a copy of naked city on a finnish tv special.
i've had a lot of requests for these videos and unfortunately could not get
them out to everyone interested for reasons such as video format (i can not
dub PAL format) etc. i'm in the middle of taking care of the trades i could
work out.
if anyone is really interested in seeing these videos i could do some more
trades in middle to late september once the trades i am doing now are taken
care of. anyone interested can send me a trade list if they wish. any
questions about these videos or whatever please respond privately. thanks
jason
jtalbot@massart.edu
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 11:11:34 PDT
From: "Scott Handley" <c123018@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Looking for insight (t. berne)
>On Wed, 12 Aug 1998 TagYrIt@aol.com wrote:
>
>> Sanctified Dreams
>> Caos Totale - Nice View
>> The Paris Concert - Memory Select
>> The Paris Concert - Poisoned Minds
>> The Paris Concert - Lowlife
>>
>> If someone can point me at what I'm missing, I'd appreciate it.
[snip]
>here's what youre missing, Bloodcount - Saturation Point, Loose Cannon
with
>Jeff Hershfield and Michael Formanek, Miniature with Joey Baron, Fulton
Street
>Maul. own those, and maybe you'll "Get" him. ...based on what you have,
what's not to
>"get"? listen to his distinct compositions and the pain in his
playing....and
>..the end. ...
Sorry for the long-ass clip, but I'd like to respond to the above.
First the BOTTOM LINE for those of you with less patience and time:
I LIKE BERNE'S MUSIC AND ESPECIALLY BLOODCOUNT BECAUSE OF THE BEAUTIFUL
DEVELOPMENT OF THE MUSIC, WHERE IMPROVISATION AND COMPOSITION COMBINE TO
THE DEGREE OF BEING ALMOST INDISTINGUISHABLE. I BELIEVE THIS IS MORE
TRUE ON THE THREE BLOODCOUNT CDs ON JMT THAN ON ANY OTHER RECORDINGS.
KEEP THEM! THEY MAY GROW ON YOU LIKE SOMETHING ORGANIC (LIKE THE MUSIC
ITSELF, WHICH GROWS AND SHAPES ITSELF LIKE NIGHT PLANTS).
BUT IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT: QUE SERA, SERA.
First, ALL music has plenty that one can "not get"; I suspect that I get
punk just fine, and I suspect it's bullshit...but my healthy sense of
personal ignorance motivates me to at least suspend my disbelief and
check out some records. I think it's great that Dale asked about
Berne's music. I only have opinions, and most are positive.
I'm not going to talk about the shapes that the music inspires in my
head, but I personally love the spiderweb patterns in Bloodcount's music
in particular, and in Berne's music in general. In spite of the
formulas (unison-line grooves backing free-bop solos; the well-placed
noise guitar freak-out; highly angular lines which are pretty
homogeneous, insofar as most stuff written by Wayne Shorter for the mid
sixties Miles group sound the same), I just think the guy is beautifully
creative, and really accessible. I love listening to the track
"Bloodcount" from LOWLIFE (not the UNWOUND version, though that has its
own charms) and hearing the improvised solos tease and draw out the next
episodic installment of the composition, until one is no longer sure
whether improvisation gives way to composition or vice versa;
abstraction and groove collide: I can have my JBs and my Ayler at the
Vanguard, simultaneously, but all without the kind of pastiche that I
suspect characterizes much of "postmodernism"'s more superficial
casualties (respect to JZ and Schnittke). The last third of
"Bloodcount" or the last ten minutes of "Eye Contact" are pure emotion
(I agree in those cases with Corey's "pain" comment), and should go down
in the book for apocalyptic endings. I also feel that at the end of a
long Berne piece I really feel emptied; in the man's own words it's
about the "drama" of it all. It works like tragedy, at it's best (the
blowing session/head-solo-solo-solo-head approach deters this), and the
effect is accordingly cathartic.
Berne isn't my favorite saxophonist or improvisor, and he's also not
much of a technical master or instrumental innovator, but neither was
Miles Davis. The similarity, for me, between the two men comes down to
the unlimited contextsa in which they excercised and tested their
respective limitations. Dave Douglas does this too: he's a
fundamentally linear improvisor who draws liberally from "the"
"tradition", but there's no limit to what his MUSIC can do. Some on
this list spoke in a qualified fashion about Berne's Paraphrase group
because it's such a player's environment: Berne's is left naked to hold
his own, and he does. But if you don't care for his
playing...well...there's an awful LOT of it. I don't "get" a lot of
Braxton's music, and there are aspects of it I KNOW I don't like (I
simply regard them as shortcomings, quite simply shortcomings---genius
has its limits); but Brax is a radical formal innovator who is Mr.
Context as well. I'd rather listen to DD's SANCTUARY than a seemingly
interminable jumble of thorny lines for four orchestras, but I'm glad
it's all out there. Same with Evan Parker, who's said himself that
context is everything (in the context of jamming: "that's all that ever
happens when you play with other musicians: you go and play your sound,
they use it in some way, and it goes into the mix" [WIRE article, check
their website]). Composer-improvisors are the greatest, though, because
they more often than not write FOR the musicians to the point where
cmposition is almost equilaterally a collaborative effort. In this
regard, Berne belongs to a long line of beautiful musical minds:
Ellington, Cecil Taylor, Charles Mingus, and John Zorn, and those are
just a few super-famous names I can think of right off. I'd also contest
that Berne is one of the greatest current torchbearers for the IDEAS
that the AACM was working with 30 years ago, but now the system's not
the point, or not as much the point as it was then. I don't think Berne
cares too much about "innovation", but I do think he was motivated by
ennui to make music that sounded like nothing had before. And he
succeeded.
I think of Berne's music, at its best, as being a great meeting place
for things I can find in more "pure" abundance elsewhere, but in
exclusive abundance. Energy: Brotzmann. Intricately composed systems
for working groups: Braxton. Radical juxtapositions of noise, genre,
and style: John Zorn. Funky Butt: Maceo parker/F. Wesley/JBs. I find
all that here.
However, the bottom line is that if you aren't getting much out of
something, great. That's what plurality is for. And damn, most of us
on this list will NEVER BE ABLE TO ACQUIRE half the music we might
really enjoy. That's depressing yet exhilarating. I'd encourage anyone
to get and keep at least one of the Bloodcount Paris recordings, as they
are landmarks of jazz next to which most of Berne's other stuff pales
(IMNSHO).
Plus Jim Black's a damn good drummer. And Chris Speed's kind of cute.
\Apologies to Mike for the bandwidth-buster. thank you for reading
this!
- -scott
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V2 #434
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