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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #404
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Thursday, June 25 1998 Volume 02 : Number 404
In this issue:
-
Re: Patton and zorn (for franko)
Re: Joe Lovano and Motian/Lovano/Frisell
Re: Patton and zorn
Re: Scofield
Motian
Re: Gift Ideas
Re: RV: Cancellation of Experimenta '98
Re: Joe Lovano
Re: Scofield
Re: Scofield
Re: Scofield (MMW)
Re: Patton and zorn
Re: Re: Patton and zorn
RE: Electric Miles
zorn-list etiquette #102
Patton imitating Zorn?
Re: Gift Ideas
Closed on Account of Rabies
Re: Gift Ideas
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 17:40:13 +0200
From: flamerik@best.ms.philips.com
Subject: Re: Patton and zorn (for franko)
>
> You should have seen his piece at the Victoriaville festival: hard to
> differentiate it from one by Zorn (both from a sound, performance, and setting
> points of view).
Maybe I should have, but it's hard for someone from Holland...
> I am not saying that he is imitating Zorn, but I would lie by refusing to
> acknowledge that this idea did not leave during the whole performance.
I'm interested in a description/review of this piece, though.
I must say that I think Patton's "Pranzo Oltranzista" isn't unsimilar to
something Zorn would do - or maybe that is because Zorn's saxophone playing
is prominent in a number of tracks.
Frankco.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 08:43:06 PDT
From: "Scott Handley" <c123018@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Joe Lovano and Motian/Lovano/Frisell
Marc Johnson is the bassist on vol III, w/ Lee Konitz guesting. The HOW
DEEP IS THE OCEAN is gorgeous.
- --scott
>Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 10:12:42 -0500
>To: Fritz Feger <ffeger@gwdg.de>, zorn-list@xmission.com
>From: Dan Hewins <hewins@synsolutions.com>
>Subject: Re: Joe Lovano and Motian/Lovano/Frisell
>
>There are three On Broadway discs and they add a fourth to the group:
>Charlie Haden. I've only heard the first and I like it quite a bit.
>
>Dan
>
>At 2:36 AM -0500 6/24/98, Fritz Feger wrote:
>>Concerning the trio, I think nobody mentioned the two "On Broadway"
discs
>>on JMT. They play standards on it exclusively, and they do it in a way
that
>
>
>
>-
>
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 11:49:21 EDT
From: <JonAbbey2@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Patton and zorn
In a message dated 6/24/98 11:28:25 AM, proussel@ichips.intel.com wrote:
<<> What I was trying to say is that I don't think Patton is trying to
immitate
You should have seen his piece at the Victoriaville festival: hard to
differentiate it from one by Zorn (both from a sound, performance, and setting
points of view).
I am not saying that he is imitating Zorn, but I would lie by refusing to
acknowledge that this idea did not leave during the whole performance.
>>
Personally I thought it was a really bad Masonna imitation. Patton seemed to
be completely out of ideas after ten minutes. I don't think Zorn's done
anything that purely "noisy" that I can think of.
Jon
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 11:05:47 -0500
From: Rusty Crump <dmcrump@sunset.backbone.olemiss.edu>
Subject: Re: Scofield
>Speaking of Sco, I recently picked up his new one with MMW as his sidecrew. I
>had read some good reviews, but honestly, I was wary about the purchase, it
>being King Wank and all. But this album took me by complete surprise. It
>rocks!
>Evenm though it's all Sco tunes, it fits very nicely into the MMW discography.
>Far, far better than anything Booker T's done in the last twenty years...
>
>
For me, the appeal of MMW has started to wear thin. And the funky-ass
organ/gtr/bass/drums disc of the year is "Medicine Hat" by the Will Bernard
4-Tet, on Antilles. It burns the Scofield/MMW down to the ground -- get it,
sez Joe Bob.
Rusty Crump
Oxford, Mississippi
(for a few more weeks, after which the sig will say Redding, California)
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 98 13:03:39 -0300
From: hulinare@bemberg.com.ar
Subject: Motian
>Concerning the trio, I think nobody mentioned the two "On Broadway"
>discs on JMT. They play standars on it exclusively, and they do it in
I wrote this yesterday, though I guess I did it wrong (mail address).
Here I go again.
I think good choices on other Motian records are "Bill Evans" (JMT-
1990) and "On Broadway- Vol 1" (JMT- 1988).
The first one is all Bill Evans compositions, with Lovano, Frisell and
Marc Johnson on bass; an amazing fine record, with superb melodies and
excellent solos and playing from this cult-fave quartet.
The second one is an album of standards from Broadway musicals. like
"Liza", "Somewhere over the rainbow", "They didn't believe me", amoung
other highlights; musicians are the same except for Haden's presence on
bass, instead of Johnson.
IMO this cd looks like as if they all know the tunes so well and are so
comfortable with each other that they sound like they are having a great
time.
Don't miss them, though I prefer "Bill Evans", if I have to choose.
- -Hugo, from Argentina
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 11:08:39 -0500
From: Rusty Crump <dmcrump@sunset.backbone.olemiss.edu>
Subject: Re: Gift Ideas
> OK, here's my problem: I have this 18-year old nephew for whom I'd
> like to get a couple of discs as a high school graduation present.
> He's very much into the electronica, big beat, etc. scene (he DJs
> around) but has pretty big ears; I had him listening to Naked City and
> Coltrane ('Ascension'!) at 14. In that my knowledge of the current
> dance genre is minimal at best, I'm looking for suggestions of things
> that stretch those boundaries a bit, something, say, a step (or three)
> beyond Aube or Squarepusher, that he'd enjoy while still providing
> something of a challenge.
>
> Thanks for the help.
>
> Brian Olewnick
>
> NP: Evan Parker Toward the Margins
>
>
>
>-
Hmm... if he doesn't already have them, either of the "Macro Dub Infection"
collections would go down quite tasty. They're British releases on Caroline
(I think).
Rusty Crump
Oxford, MS/Redding, CA
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:39:36 -0300
From: jabu <jabu@sminter.com.ar>
Subject: Re: RV: Cancellation of Experimenta '98
Experimenta is one of the few chances local musicians have for their musical
growth and maybe the only one for music lovers to be exposed to creative
artists from all over the world.
It would be really sad to loose it.
Antonio Bueno
Claudio Koremblit wrote:
> Address of Clarin newspaperr wrong:
>
> > Regarding an information about the cancellation of the experimental music
> > series in Buenos Aires, Argentina, called Experimenta 98, taken
> > from La Nacion, newspaper, june 7, we suggest to see the
> > article published for Clarin, other argentinian newspaper,
> > that have address on line:
>
> http://www.clarin.com.ar/diario/98-06-09/c-00301d.htm
>
> this is right.
>
> -
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:05:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca>
Subject: Re: Joe Lovano
IMHO Lovano's pinnacle came with his two CD set "Quartets - Live At The
Village Vanguard" on Blue Note. One discs is rather Ornette-y with Tom
Farrell (tmpt), Anthony Cox (b) and Billy Hart (d). The other is more modern
mainstream with Mulgrew Miller (p), Christian McBride (b) and Lewis Nash (d).
I saw Joe with a version of the Mulgrew quartet and he played good, solid
work. But like Hank Mobley or Clifford Jordan, say, Lovano is probably a
tremendously talented player of the second rank. But unlike many of those
guys --and all young lions -- at least he tries to present himself in
different circumstances, even if the experiments don't work.
Ken Waxman
cj649@torfree.net
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:12:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca>
Subject: Re: Scofield
MM&W are probably one of the most overrated bands in the world. I saw
them here (Toronto) about three years ago and thought any average
bar/blues/R&B band could play as well.
That and their CDs struck me as being by a rhythm section in search of
someone to back up. That's why the couple of tracks I've heard from the new
Scofield + MM&W CD are so impressive, the three have finally found their
soloist.
BTW, if people are really hot on that kind of "groove" stuff I heard a
band in a similar style last night. It's Slow Poke, featuring Michael
Blake (ss, ts); Dave Tronzo (gtr); Tony Scherr (el bs) and Kenny Woolsen
(d). There ain't much there for the head, but your feet sure tap and
fingers snap.
Ken Waxman
cj649@torfree.net
On Wed, 24 Jun 1998, Circle9 wrote:
> Speaking of Sco, I recently picked up his new one with MMW as his sidecrew. I
> had read some good reviews, but honestly, I was wary about the purchase, it
> being King Wank and all. But this album took me by complete surprise. It rocks!
> Evenm though it's all Sco tunes, it fits very nicely into the MMW discography.
> Far, far better than anything Booker T's done in the last twenty years...
>
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:30:51 EDT
From: <TagYrIt@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Scofield
In a message dated 98-06-24 13:13:50 EDT, Ken Waxman writes:
<< MM&W are probably one of the most overrated bands in the world. I saw
them here (Toronto) about three years ago and thought any average
bar/blues/R&B band could play as well.
>>
I know we've already run this debate.....but I have to say, I'm in total
agreement with this. They sound to me like bad Jimmy Smith outtakes.
Dale.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:02:19 -0500
From: Dan Hewins <hewins@synsolutions.com>
Subject: Re: Scofield (MMW)
I know a lot of people who have been bored stiff at MMW shows who have
liked them before. I can see how this could happen and I am not surprised
by people's comments on them being overrated. Ken said, "That and their
CDs struck me as being by a rhythm section in search of someone to back
up." I thought the same thing a while ago too. I thought becuause of the
leader that the new Scofield disc was going to cheese out too much but, on
the contrary, I find myself listening to it still quite a lot. I have some
live tapes of MMW with Marc Ribot that are great!
I can't listen to them too much though (I still listen to them a lot).
About them being overrated: That may go for Martin and Wood. Billy Martin
has a few stock beats that, granted, he can do very well, but I don't think
he strays too far from that. If I had never heard a Chris Wood bass solo I
would be completely bored with his playing. However, I think John Medeski
is one of the better players around. Take his playing on Bar Kohkba for
example. Also, some of the solos I've heard have blown me away
(particularly on "Jelly Belly").
I do think that they will have to go in a new direction to keep my interest
though. I am excited to hear the new album that will come out on Blue Note.
In small defense,
Dan
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 12:21:03 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Subject: Re: Patton and zorn
On Wed, 24 Jun 1998 11:49:21 EDT JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 6/24/98 11:28:25 AM, proussel@ichips.intel.com wrote:
>
> <<> What I was trying to say is that I don't think Patton is trying to
> immitate
>
> You should have seen his piece at the Victoriaville festival: hard to
> differentiate it from one by Zorn (both from a sound, performance, and setting
> points of view).
>
> I am not saying that he is imitating Zorn, but I would lie by refusing to
> acknowledge that this idea did not leave during the whole performance.
> >>
>
> Personally I thought it was a really bad Masonna imitation. Patton seemed to
> be completely out of ideas after ten minutes. I don't think Zorn's done
> anything that purely "noisy" that I can think of.
Noisy? I don't remember the performance being really so noisy. After the three
compositions directed by Zorn, the one by Patton seemed to me in a not very
different spirit (same form of loose direction, sections with very different
contents, abrupt switches, etc). But I may have already reached music OD at
that time :-).
Patrice.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 15:44:36 EDT
From: <JonAbbey2@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Patton and zorn
In a message dated 6/24/98 3:21:15 PM, proussel@ichips.intel.com wrote:
<<> Personally I thought it was a really bad Masonna imitation. Patton seemed
to
> be completely out of ideas after ten minutes. I don't think Zorn's done
> anything that purely "noisy" that I can think of.
Noisy? I don't remember the performance being really so noisy. After the three
compositions directed by Zorn, the one by Patton seemed to me in a not very
different spirit (same form of loose direction, sections with very different
contents, abrupt switches, etc). But I may have already reached music OD at
that time :-).>>
ok, now I understand the confusion. I had forgotten patton's first piece,
which was indeed rather "zornesque". I was talking about the next piece he
did, the one for eight amplifiers.
never mind. :)
Jon
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 02:36:25 GMT
From: al.t@mtnhdw.com (Al T)
Subject: RE: Electric Miles
Actually Big Fun is one of my favorites. It was uncut and others (Aghartha, On
the Corner) weren't? Tell me more, please.
- -------------------
From: Jeff Schwartz <jeffs@bgnet.bgsu.edu>
Subject: Electric Miles Stereo Fantasy
I recall people who attended the Miles conferences in St.
Louis reporting that Teo was unhappy with the release of
uncut Miles on the Plugged Nickel and Miles/Gil box sets.
While he may not be opposed to the creation of alternate
versions of the pieces, he did not think it should be
issued as played (especially the electric music-I must
agree that Big Fun is not my favorite Miles album but I
don't see the same logic supporting cutting out bits of
solos from the Blackhawk and Plugged Nickel quintet
dates).
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 14:41:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: "m. rizzi" <rizzi@netcom.com>
Subject: zorn-list etiquette #102
>The place Experimenta has won last year, justified every effort to repeat
>it.
Time for a refresher lesson on how to reply
to another zorn-list message.
DO NOT quote an entire message (especially
one that is 156 lines long!) for a single
sentence reply!
When the length of your message is shorter
than the message you are replying to, please
trim the quoted text down to the relevant section(s).
Why? Because it makes the digests easier to
read, it conserves bandwidth, and it uses
less disk space for the archives at xmission.com
(our generous host...in other words, we ain't
paying for the disk space, so we should be good
house guests)
Thanks,
mike rizzi
zorn-list-owner-and-etiquette-queen
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 17:44:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jeff Gretz <KGGF@grove.iup.edu>
Subject: Patton imitating Zorn?
first of all, if Pranzo did sound like a Zorn composition (which it doesn't,
maybe Elegy but that's about it) you have to take into account that three of
the same players are on both. Also, about the violenza domestica issue, it is
actually a very complex piece, in fact the band had to rewrite it for live
performances so they could play it (which, if you have ever seen bungle live
you would realize this usually isn't even an issue). And as far as the tracks
on the FNM album go you have to understand that patton seems to enjoy
performing in more of a "noisy" mode so these tunes were probably forced. Zorn
has had his share of bad pieces and so does every other composer.
on another note, Patton was voicing a love of Bacharach in interviews long
before the tribute album came out and his piece on the album was one of the
best ones. Did anybody stop to think for a moment that maybe the song Fantomas
played is gonna be on the tribute album. I recall someone writing about one of
the Masada gigs in SF recently and how Zorn urged Patton on stage and got all
excited when he came up to sing with them. doesn't sound like Mike is "trying"
to get into any circle of people. if anything, i think zorn respects him maybe
a little more than some of the people who are already "in".
jeff
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 00:18:53 EDT
From: <QUESOMALO@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Gift Ideas
Well, I'm a recently graduated 18-year old so I suppose that would lend
some authenticity to my opinion (or perhaps strip it of all authenticity).
I'm more of an experimental Jazz/rock fan with a side interest in electronica
and such. One disk which I see as having a foot (or at least a toe) planted
in each style is Davis Torn's "What Means Solid Travelor?" (which I happened
to receive as a gift from my uncle several years ago). While it doesn't
really fit into any of the current dance music classifications, It has lush
textures and sampled grooves, but also the ripping guitar which one would
expect from a rock-o-jazzer like Torn. To me, this is a more effective hybrid
of attack guitar and electronica than the Derek Baily record. I like way his
guit playing interacts with the beats but I think that the programming by ninj
would leave any serious jungle fan cold.
Also, if he hasn't checked out the Silver Apples yet that could be a
fun(ny?) gift. Hearing those recordings gave me a completely different
perspective on modern dance music, as well as the sixties.
-nick
<< OK, here's my problem: I have this 18-year old nephew for whom I'd
like to get a couple of discs as a high school graduation present.
He's very much into the electronica, big beat, etc. scene (he DJs
around) but has pretty big ears; I had him listening to Naked City and
Coltrane ('Ascension'!) at 14. In that my knowledge of the current
dance genre is minimal at best, I'm looking for suggestions of things
that stretch those boundaries a bit, something, say, a step (or three)
beyond Aube or Squarepusher, that he'd enjoy while still providing
something of a challenge.
>>
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 02:31:52 -0400
From: parry@macconnect.com (Parry Gettelman)
Subject: Closed on Account of Rabies
I loved it. Hadn't read any Poe since I was a kid and rediscovery through
these quite varied spoken/musical versions of his work was a real thrill.
The version of "The Masque of the Red Death," in particular, is wonderfully
chilling. I don't usually like recorded versions of literature, but I
found myself driving around w/ this CD in the car for days.
Parry, de-lurking
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 10:44:39 +0200
From: "J.T. de Boer" <J.T.de.Boer@let.rug.nl>
Subject: Re: Gift Ideas
From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 98 09:35:19 -0500
To: <zorn-list@lists.xmission.com>
Subject: Gift Ideas
Try Vernon Reids "Mistaken Identity" for the guitar/bigbeat
combination and the British bands Autechre/Boards of Canada (Warp
records) for dance that's anything but conventional.
Jeroen de Boer
OK, here's my problem: I have this 18-year old nephew for whom I'd
like to get a couple of discs as a high school graduation present.
He's very much into the electronica, big beat, etc. scene (he DJs
around) but has pretty big ears; I had him listening to Naked City and
Coltrane ('Ascension'!) at 14. In that my knowledge of the current
dance genre is minimal at best, I'm looking for suggestions of things
that stretch those boundaries a bit, something, say, a step (or three)
beyond Aube or Squarepusher, that he'd enjoy while still providing
something of a challenge.
Thanks for the help.
Brian Olewnick
NP: Evan Parker Toward the Margins
- -
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V2 #404
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