ftp.xmission.com/2014.06.ftp.xmission.com.tar/ftp.xmission.com/pub/lists/zorn-list/archive/v02.n389

Internet Message Format | 1998-06-10 | 21KB

From: [e-mail] (Zorn List Digest)
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #389
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: [e-mail]
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: bulk


Zorn List Digest        Thursday, June 11 1998        Volume 02 : Number 389



In this issue:
-
       Ikue Mori
       Laswell/Can
       Re: Karl Berger Info, Please
       New Ribot Disc
       Another Downtown Question
       Re: Kronos, again/Africa
       Re: Karl Berger
       Re: R: Kronos, again/Africa
       Re[2]: Kronos, again/Africa
       Re: Another Downtown Question
       Re: Kronos, again/Africa
       Re: Another Downtown Question
       Re: Another Downtown Question
       Re: Another Downtown Question

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 15:22:09 -0500
From: Dan Hewins <[e-mail]>
Subject: Ikue Mori

About 6 weeks ago there was a thread about Mori...

I just want to add that I picked up "Painted Desert" with Ribot and Quine
and I really enjoy it.  It's not really "jazz," it's more like a soundtrack
for a move not made.  It's very nice.

Dan



- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 16:16:24 -0500
From: Phil Plencner <[e-mail]>
Subject: Laswell/Can

Just so you're aware:

The latest issue of Downbeat ( July 98) has a fairly interesting article on Laswell in it.  Mainly discussing the Panthalassa CD.

Also, with all this discussion lately with the band Can I ordered Tago Mago and Monster Movie from my local record shop.  Thanks for the
recommendations....

Phil


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 18:05:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Karl Berger Info, Please

All of the Sakville avant garde stuff (includding discs by Braxton,
Hemphill, Bowie, G. Lewis etc. etc.) has never been reissued on CD. In
fact the label owners are looking for someone to buy the masters. See the
most recent CODA.

Ken Waxman
[e-mail]


On Tue, 9 Jun 1998, Brian Olewnick wrote:

> Silent Watcher wrote:
> >
> > Hello all,
> >
> > I was wondering if anyone on this list could give me opinions on any
> > Karl Berger albums (preferably something that's available in the US). I
> > really like the string arrangements he's done on various Laswell albums.
> > Now I'm curious to hear if his own work is any good.
>
> Though I'm not sure how available it is nowadays, I've always been a big
> fan of his duet with Dave Holland on Sackville, 'All Kinds of Time'.
> Also well worth hearing, for Berger and everyone else on it, is Don
> Cherry's 'Eternal Rhythm', a classic recently reissued on disc. Amazing
> stuff.
>
> Brian Olewnick
>
> -
>
>

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 22:52:42 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Jamie F Graves)
Subject: New Ribot Disc

Thanks to the amazing Sally White, I was able to pick up a copy of the
Cubanos Postizos album today, a few days before the release date
(incidentally, if anyone here is in Southern Connecticut, check out
Sally's Place in Westport, it's an oasis of jazz and hard to find stuff).
In general it's what I expected, considering that I already know
practically every song on the disc from live performances. For those of
you who have seen them live, the disc is a pretty straight and accurate
representation of their style. the onyl difference is the addition of
horns on a few tracks (I didn't now Ribot played the trumpet) and added
organ work from John Medeski and Anthony Coleman. However, I don't think
either of them takes a solo, and what they do add the album is some very
low key back up work.

For those of you who haven't heard them yet, the band is essentially
Ribot soloing over cuban grooves.  His style on the album is remarkably
straight, a little edgier in tone than Circle Maker, but DEFINITELY no
balloons or pocket fans. Pretty much just a fun instrumental rock album
with a cuban flavor. Nothing really that new here though, just a bunch of
musicians having a good time.
Jamie


_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 23:03:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: William York <[e-mail]>
Subject: Another Downtown Question

I sort of asked this one last week, but I'll try again, especially after
finding The President "Bring Yr Camera" today for $2.99.  On first listen
this sounds really dated, to me some of the sounds are a little hard
to get through, but what I'm wanting to ask is: how do people feel that
this music has held up (that of Sharp, Horvitz, Previte, Frisell, Zorn).

None of the Zorn stuff sounds dated at all to me, but I can't say this for
everything from this era.  It's almost like there were a lot of sounds and
styles going on that didn't quite gel.  Maybe it's my perspective.  It
also seems like there is much less of a buzz over the Knitting Factory and
a lot of these musicians.  Partly that has to do with many of them
starting their own labels and not being on Nonesuch, I don't know.

But what do people think of as classic recordings of the so-called
downtown scene.  I would have to nominate Big Gundown, Spillane, Spy vs
Spy, hmm maybe Tim Berne's "Fulton St. Maul", LAst Exit, then ...?  I'm
sure Previte has something but I haven't heard those.  Frisell? Sharp?
Arto? I guess
I'm thinking 1985-90 but perhaps the better stuff came before (Locus
Solus, Golden Palominos? ?) Any comments would be appreciated.

William York, a 22 yr old who asks more questions than most 4 yr olds


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 00:23:29 EDT
From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Kronos, again/Africa

In a message dated 98-06-10 10:44:07 EDT, you ([e-mail]) wrote:

<< I also like a lot eastern/african groups; is there any recommendation on
 this kind of music? >>

Among Brian Olewnick's suggestions:

D'Gary                     Malagasy Guitar                 Shanachie
D'Gary/Mahaleo             The Long Way Home               Shanachie
Dama Mahaleo               Songs of Madagascar             (?)
Tarika Sammy               Fanafody                        Xenophile

I'd recommend anything from Madagascar.  This island country hosts some
fascinating musicians and unique musical instruments.  Tarika Sammy (they now
go only by "Tarika") are one of my absolute favorite groups.  Their latest CD,
_Son Egal_ (on Xenophile), is worth owning not only for the music, but the
risks that the band took in releasing it.  They take more than a few swipes at
the dictatorial government ruling Madagascar and their subsequent squandering
of the island nation's resources.  Also worth looking for are the two volumes
called _Out of Madagascar_ recorded/produced by guitarists David Lindley and
Henry Kaiser during their two visits to the country.  They participate in very
little of the music, if that means anything to you.

=dgasque=


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 01:50:53 -0300 (ADT)
From: Nathaniel Dorward <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Karl Berger

Check out his performance on John McLaughlin's _Where Fortune Smiles_, an
excellent pre-Mahavishnu album. --N

                        *

                    Nate Dorward  ([e-mail])
                    website: http://is2.dal.ca/~ndorward/

                        *

        And I hear
            what's missing there
            music is core of the missing
                the code of fly time

                        --Clark Coolidge


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 09:52:23 +0300 (WET)
From: Vadim Marmer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: R: Kronos, again/Africa

> > few years ago i liked to listen to two Garbarek`s Albums "Madar" and
> > "Sagas and Ragas" (i hope i spell it correctly), now i`m a little bit
> > disappointed of Garbarek,
>
> WHY?
i find garbarek is too boring, i think his playing is lack of imagination
or improvisation, and the most important for me, i just don`t like his
sound, there`s too much "new age" in it, i think,he made half way to
yani/kenny G (ok, may be the last statement is too strong). all that i
said, of course, is just a matter of taste, and i still like him on a
couples of albums, for example, "Nude Ants" or "Belongings"


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Jun 98 09:03:17 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re[2]: Kronos, again/Africa

     dgasque wrote:

>I'd recommend anything from Madagascar.  This island country hosts some
>fascinating musicians and unique musical instruments.  Tarika Sammy (they now
>go only by "Tarika") are one of my absolute favorite groups.

For the sake of historical accuracy, the two lead female singers of Tarika
Sammy (Sammy's Group), Hanitra and Noro, broke off to form their own band,
Tarika. Sammy Andriamalalaharijaona has continued with his band which, I
think, is still called Tarika Sammy.

> Their latest CD, _Son Egal_ (on Xenophile), is worth owning not only for the
>music, but the risks that the band took in releasing it.  They take more than
>a few swipes at the dictatorial government ruling Madagascar and their
>subsequent squandering of the island nation's resources.

While I enjoy 'Son Egal' also, Hana has taken the group in a slightly more pop
oriented direction than Sammy and, overall, I prefer the latter ("Tsenao Amin'
Ny Gara" from the 'Fanafody' album is an all-time killer song). I caught
Tarika Sammy a few years back at Symphony Space and they put on a wonderful,
infectious show, though it seemed clear that Hana had pop-star ambitions.
It'll be interesting to follow their development.

>Also worth looking for are the two volumes called _Out of Madagascar_
>recorded/produced by guitarists David Lindley and Henry Kaiser during their
>two visits to the country.  They participate in very little of the music, if
>that means anything to you.

     The series is called 'A World Out of Time' and there are actually
     three volumes (last time I looked) available now. All are worth
     owning; they run the gamut from extreme traditional to sugary pop, but
     each contains at least several gems. To the extent that it's a
     pop/folk song, Dama Mahaleo's 'Kobaka' (if I'm recalling the spelling
     correctly) from Vol. 1 is one of the two or three most beautiful
     examples of the form I've ever heard. (Incidentally, the record of his
     I cited on my original list is actually titled 'Melodies de
     Madagascar'.)

     Check 'em out.

     Brian Olewnick
- -





- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 09:52:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: Brent Burton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Another Downtown Question

On Wed, 10 Jun 1998, William York wrote:

> I sort of asked this one last week, but I'll try again, especially after
> finding The President "Bring Yr Camera" today for $2.99.  On first listen
> this sounds really dated, to me some of the sounds are a little hard
> to get through, but what I'm wanting to ask is: how do people feel that
> this music has held up (that of Sharp, Horvitz, Previte, Frisell, Zorn).

i thought the president records sounded dated as soon as they came out.
maybe nonesuch exerted some kind of civilizing effect on the music
and got horvitz to take the edge off for the sake of the consumer?  i
don't know.  i think some of horvitz's playing with naked city sounds a
bit dated now 10 years down the road, but for the most part i think those
records hold up really well.

b

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 08:56:36 -0500 (EST)
From: "M.A. Piper" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Kronos, again/Africa

On Thu, 11 Jun 1998 [e-mail] wrote:

    >of the island nation's resources.  Also worth looking for are the two volumes
    >called _Out of Madagascar_ recorded/produced by guitarists David Lindley and
    >Henry Kaiser during their two visits to the country.  They participate in very
    >little of the music, if that means anything to you.
    >

Actually, the Kaiser/Lindley discs are called _A World Out of Time_ and
there are three volumes, all on Shanachie. The D'Gary albums came from the
same sessions. <=-)


Michael


The Official Henry Kaiser Website
    http://php.indiana.edu/~mpiper/HKMain.html
        "The best in contemporary improvisation..."



- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 07:58:18 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Another Downtown Question

On Thu, 11 Jun 1998 09:52:46 -0400 (EDT)  Brent Burton wrote:
>
> On Wed, 10 Jun 1998, William York wrote:
>
> > I sort of asked this one last week, but I'll try again, especially after
> > finding The President "Bring Yr Camera" today for $2.99.  On first listen
> > this sounds really dated, to me some of the sounds are a little hard
> > to get through, but what I'm wanting to ask is: how do people feel that
> > this music has held up (that of Sharp, Horvitz, Previte, Frisell, Zorn).
>
> i thought the president records sounded dated as soon as they came out.

This kind of puzzles me. Zillion of records are released every year with
many of them rehashing cliches and tricks defined/introduced by others long
time ago, and keep on getting the stamp of "cutting edge". My musical
knowledge is far from being what I would like it to be, but as far as I know,
Horvitz' style is pretty unique. Are you bothered that he still keeps on
writing melodies? Should he do 100% free improv like zillions of others to not
look "dated" (because rehashing TOPOGRAPHY OF THE LUNGS 30 years after does
not seem dated by most of the "on the edge" audience)?

> maybe nonesuch exerted some kind of civilizing effect on the music
            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I doubt that. The first record on Elektra (THIS NEW GENERATION) was a
compilation of two President records that came on Dossier. BRING YR CAMERA
is in direct filiation with THIS NEW GENERATION.

> and got horvitz to take the edge off for the sake of the consumer?  i
                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Would you say the same of Zorn's records on Nonesuch? No, then why are you
assuming that for Horvitz?

> don't know.  i think some of horvitz's playing with naked city sounds a
> bit dated now 10 years down the road, but for the most part i think those
> records hold up really well.

    Patrice.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 11:12:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: Brent Burton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Another Downtown Question

On Thu, 11 Jun 1998, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:

> This kind of puzzles me. Zillion of records are released every year with
> many of them rehashing cliches and tricks defined/introduced by others long
> time ago, and keep on getting the stamp of "cutting edge". My musical
> knowledge is far from being what I would like it to be, but as far as I know,
> Horvitz' style is pretty unique.

well, just because something is unique doesn't necessarily mean that it's
great or even good.

> Are you bothered that he still keeps on writing melodies? Should he do
> 100% free improv like zillions of others to not look "dated" (because
> rehashing TOPOGRAPHY OF THE LUNGS 30 years after does not seem dated by
> most of the "on the edge" audience)?

zillions?  "boy i can't swing a bat on the sidewalk in front of my
buidling without hitting some free improv artist!"  the melodies don't
bother me, it's just the keyboard sounds he chose.  not my bag.  just
sounded dated to these ears.  i'll grant you that there was certainly a
time when i equated fusion with "dated" or "sucks," but a lot of that has
to do with musicians taking the most banal aspects of a genre and fusing
them into something even worse.  however, i just bought herbie hancock's
"sextant" (1973) and boy is that one ass-kicking record!  the band manage
an amalgamation of everything raw about free-jazz, electronics
experimentation and gut-bucket funk.  dated?  no way!

> Would you say the same of Zorn's records on Nonesuch? No, then why are you
> assuming that for Horvitz?

maybe.  i mean zorn recorded some great records for nonesuch, but they
wouldn't budge when he wanted to put a decapitated head on a cover.
nonesuch ultimately answer to elektra and on up the line.  when you're
dealing with a major label the bottom line is always what sells.

b

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 08:48:51 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Another Downtown Question

On Thu, 11 Jun 1998 11:12:13 -0400 (EDT)  Brent Burton wrote:
>
> On Thu, 11 Jun 1998, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:
>
> > This kind of puzzles me. Zillion of records are released every year with
> > many of them rehashing cliches and tricks defined/introduced by others long
> > time ago, and keep on getting the stamp of "cutting edge". My musical
> > knowledge is far from being what I would like it to be, but as far as I know,
> > Horvitz' style is pretty unique.
>
> well, just because something is unique doesn't necessarily mean that it's
> great or even good.

I agree but I can't remember the number of times I had to argue with people
who claimed that being unique was enough to be worth listeming. OK, I know
now that you are not one of them :-).

> > Are you bothered that he still keeps on writing melodies? Should he do
> > 100% free improv like zillions of others to not look "dated" (because
> > rehashing TOPOGRAPHY OF THE LUNGS 30 years after does not seem dated by
> > most of the "on the edge" audience)?
>
> zillions?  "boy i can't swing a bat on the sidewalk in front of my
> buidling without hitting some free improv artist!"  the melodies don't
> bother me, it's just the keyboard sounds he chose.  not my bag.  just
            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Darn! You don't like the DX7? Be careful, the DX7 will be in ten years what
the Hammond organ it today ;-).

> sounded dated to these ears.  i'll grant you that there was certainly a
> time when i equated fusion with "dated" or "sucks," but a lot of that has
> to do with musicians taking the most banal aspects of a genre and fusing
> them into something even worse.  however, i just bought herbie hancock's
> "sextant" (1973) and boy is that one ass-kicking record!  the band manage
> an amalgamation of everything raw about free-jazz, electronics
> experimentation and gut-bucket funk.  dated?  no way!

Hum, you make me curious about that one (hey, I even love ROCKIT). I will
definitely look for it.

> > Would you say the same of Zorn's records on Nonesuch? No, then why are you
> > assuming that for Horvitz?
>
> maybe.  i mean zorn recorded some great records for nonesuch, but they
> wouldn't budge when he wanted to put a decapitated head on a cover.
        ^^^^^^^^^^^^
You see, the hassle had very little to do with music but with packaging
issues. You would have a hard time to find a company of this size putting
such records out. Hey, even EARACHE (or TOYS FACTORY?) had second feelings
about the record sleeves of the Pain Killer records.

> nonesuch ultimately answer to elektra and on up the line.  when you're
> dealing with a major label the bottom line is always what sells.

In this case, I am tempted to say that the management of Nonesuch is either
clueless of has strong suicidal tendencies... I mean, if I really want to
buy your statement ("the bottom line is always what sells").

    Patrice.

- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V2 #389
*******************************


 To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to
       "[e-mail]"
 with
       "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest"
 in the body of the message.

 For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send
 "help" to the same address.  Do not use quotes in your message.

 A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
 subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest"
 in the commands above with "zorn-list".

 Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in
 pub/lists/zorn-list/archive.  These are organized by date.

 Problems? Email the list owner at [e-mail]