ftp.xmission.com/2014.06.ftp.xmission.com.tar/ftp.xmission.com/pub/lists/zorn-list/archive/v02.n385

Internet Message Format | 1998-06-04 | 21KB

From: [e-mail] (Zorn List Digest)
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #385
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: [e-mail]
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: bulk


Zorn List Digest         Friday, June 5 1998         Volume 02 : Number 385



In this issue:
-
       Re: Fripp thinks he is a god
       Re: David S Ware on Sony
       Recent George Clinton live shows
       Re: Fripp thinks he is a god
       Re: Recent George Clinton live shows
       Re:  Recent George Clinton live shows
       Re: Recent George Clinton live shows
       Re: Recent George Clinton live shows
       Re: Fripp thinks he is a god
       Re:  Recent George Clinton live shows
       Re: Fripp thinks he is a god
       Re: Fripp, but more on Photography

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 23:34:36 EDT
From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Fripp thinks he is a god

In a message dated 98-06-04 19:00:47 EDT, you write:

<< Noo real Zoen content, but I know a lot of list members like
 Fripp. I saw ProjeKct Two (Fripp, Belew, Gunn) and an announcement
 was made before the show that there was no smoking, recording devices,
 or cameras allowed. >>

Dave, was this the Cleveland show on Tuesday? I considered going, but after
hearing the Projekt 2 CD, I couldn't think of anything that left me
more....unimpressed and opinionless. It did absolutely nothing at all for me.

Dale.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 23:58:21 -0400
From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: David S Ware on Sony

DR S WILKIE wrote:

> Anyone recommend any good Ware albums?

My favorites are "Flight of i" with Marc Edwards on drums, either "Dao"
or "Cryptology" with Whit Dickey, and "Wisdom of Uncertainty" and
"Godspelized" with the fabulous Susie Ibarra.  Shipp and Parker are
common to all of them.  I hear great things about "Third Ear Recitation,
but haven't heard it."  I won't say anything about the upcoming Columbia
record since puching that is part of my day job.  Actually, I will say
just this... it was recorded *before* Ware was signed to Columbia, so you
needn't fear he was forced to compromise in any way.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 00:11:24 -0400
From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Recent George Clinton live shows

I've used the excuse of the nice P-Funk primer in the June issue of The
Wire to shore up my woefully inadequate collection with four of their
classic albums ("Maggot Brain," "Mothership Connection," "Funkentelechy
vs. the Placebo Syndrome" and "One Nation Under a Groove").  Fine stuff
indeed... little did I know how profoundly they'd influenced my beloved
Prince/TAFKAP/The Artist, for just one example.

I see P-Funk's playing at the Texaco Festival on Sunday night.
Recommendations from those who've seen them lately?  Does the current
live show still "cut it?"  And which of the important older all-stars
are still on board?

Steve Smith
[e-mail]


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 00:25:41 -0400
From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Fripp thinks he is a god

Jeff Spirer wrote:

> Let me say as someone who has been paid by artists to photograph them in
> concert (and published in Drum and Modern Drummer magazine) that this is
> completely within the artist's rights and may reflect any number of
> concerns, *not* egotism, including a feeling of intrusion, problems with
> flash going off during a performance disturbing musicians, contracts with
> professional photographers, club requirements (musicians often get blamed
> for having a crowd that fucks with the rules), etc.

Another definite problem with unexpected flashes: A performer who moves
around on stage a lot (granted, that probably doesn't include Fripp :-])
can be momentarily blinded and/or disoriented by the flash. If the
performer is near the lip of the stage and can't see how far away it
is, this could lead to serious injury.
- --
- ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ===== [e-mail] ===== Human Systems \|||
||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \||
|/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \|

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 21:30:03 -0700
From: Jeff Spirer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Recent George Clinton live shows

At 12:11 AM 6/5/98 -0400, Steve Smith wrote:

>I see P-Funk's playing at the Texaco Festival on Sunday night.
>Recommendations from those who've seen them lately?  Does the current
>live show still "cut it?"  And which of the important older all-stars
>are still on board?

You will never see Bernie on stage with Clinton.  And listening to a lot of
those classics, you can hear how influential Bernie was to the sound.


Jeff Spirer
B&W Photos: http://www.pomegranates.com/frame/spirer/
Color and B&W Photos: http://www.hyperreal.org/~jeffs/gallery.html
Axiom/Material: http://www.hyperreal.org/axiom/

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 01:21:25 EDT
From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re:  Recent George Clinton live shows

In a message dated 6/5/98 12:26:48 AM, [e-mail] wrote:

<<I've used the excuse of the nice P-Funk primer in the June issue of The
Wire to shore up my woefully inadequate collection with four of their
classic albums ("Maggot Brain," "Mothership Connection," "Funkentelechy
vs. the Placebo Syndrome" and "One Nation Under a Groove").  Fine stuff
indeed... little did I know how profoundly they'd influenced my beloved
Prince/TAFKAP/The Artist, for just one example.

I see P-Funk's playing at the Texaco Festival on Sunday night.
Recommendations from those who've seen them lately?  Does the current
live show still "cut it?"  And which of the important older all-stars
are still on board?

Steve Smith
[e-mail]>>

Well, I haven't seen them live for 7 or 8 years now, so I can't really answer
your set of questions very well, except to say that Eddie Hazel (deceased) and
Bernie Worrell and Bootsy Collins don't play with P-Funk anymore. On the other
hand, Michael Hampton still does sometimes, depending on the show, and Maggot
Brain live is a killer. One of the best concerts I've ever seen was The P-Funk
All-Stars in 1990 or so playing Club Bene in Sayreville, NJ. They played for
four hours straight, never letting up the funk.

The real reason I'm posting, though, is to mention a few essential records not
among the four you picked up. While Maggot Brain and One Nation Under A Groove
are superessential, the other two I've always considered to be a notch below
their classic material. Other records I do consider essential are Funkadelic,
Standing On The Verge Of Getting It On, Cosmic Slop, First Thangs, and Up For
The Down Stroke. Also, the recently released live show from 1971 is an amazing
document of P-Funk in their wildest hour.

Jon, who's more psyched for the Pelt/White Winged Moth/Lhasa Cement Plant show
next Monday at the Cooler than anything in the Texaco Festival.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 02:17:11 -0400
From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Recent George Clinton live shows

[e-mail] wrote:

> Well, I haven't seen them live for 7 or 8 years now, so I can't really answer
> your set of questions very well, except to say that Eddie Hazel (deceased) and
> Bernie Worrell and Bootsy Collins don't play with P-Funk anymore.

Yeah, I'd figured as much.  It's a shame... while Clinton may have been the spark
behind P-Funk, Worrell is clearly responsible for virtually everything that makes
the band important, musically speaking, with Bootsy, Hazel, Hampton, Tiki and
Brailey also large in the mix.  Mainly I was curious about folks like Gary Shider,
Junie Morrison and Michael Hampton at this point...

> The real reason I'm posting, though, is to mention a few essential records not
> among the four you picked up. While Maggot Brain and One Nation Under A Groove
> are superessential, the other two I've always considered to be a notch below
> their classic material. Other records I do consider essential are Funkadelic,
> Standing On The Verge Of Getting It On, Cosmic Slop, First Thangs, and Up For
> The Down Stroke. Also, the recently released live show from 1971 is an amazing
> document of P-Funk in their wildest hour.

"Their wildest hour," as in, two members of the band quit and their replacements
were sight-reading and screwing up, which is what I read on the P-Funk website run
by someone at Duke U.?  Tell me more...

And how do you feel about "America Eats Its Young"?  Just curious... I'm
interested in investigating this one on a cursory examination...

It appears that you are much more allied with the Funkadelic side
(musician-centric) than the Parliament side (vocalist-centric and concept
album-obsessed).  In general I tend to agree... "Maggot Brain" is incredible, and
"One Nation" is very impressive (although the Priority CD issue of "One Nation..."
seems to have been made with a really compressed and limited source... it doesn't
"breathe" at all).  But "Funkentelechy," which includes "Bop Gun" and "Flash
Light," seems pretty crucial to me, and *sounds* a lot better than the "One
Nation..." CD I bought tonight.

> Jon, who's more psyched for the Pelt/White Winged Moth/Lhasa Cement Plant show
> next Monday at the Cooler than anything in the Texaco Festival.

Steve, who HAS to attend the Medeski Martin Wood show next Monday at the Texaco
Tent (TM) for job reasons, and would otherwise be all over your provocative sig
rejoinder...  Pelt is Donald Miller's group, right?

Steve Smith
[e-mail]
NP - Parliament, "Flash Light," _Funkentelechy vs. the Placebo Syndrome_


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 03:34:56 EDT
From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Recent George Clinton live shows

In a message dated 6/5/98 2:19:29 AM, [e-mail] wrote:

<<Also, the recently released live show from 1971 is an amazing
> document of P-Funk in their wildest hour.

"Their wildest hour," as in, two members of the band quit and their
replacements
were sight-reading and screwing up, which is what I read on the P-Funk website
run
by someone at Duke U.?  Tell me more...>>

The drummer and rhythm guitarist had indeed just joined the band and are
pretty sloppy but for me, it doesn't get in the way of the energy that runs
through this set. I guess part of the reason I like this one is that I had
given up hope for a recording which captured the P-Funk experience on disc,
after hearing a bunch of bad records and some mediocre bootlegs. There's no
substitute for the 1971 no-holds-barred feel. Is it a brilliant record? No.
Will fans be psyched they have it? I think so.

<<And how do you feel about "America Eats Its Young"?  Just curious... I'm
interested in investigating this one on a cursory examination...>>

Never got much out of this one. It's the one early Funkadelic album that's a
failure in my eyes.

<<It appears that you are much more allied with the Funkadelic side
(musician-centric) than the Parliament side (vocalist-centric and concept
album-obsessed).  In general I tend to agree... "Maggot Brain" is incredible,
and
"One Nation" is very impressive (although the Priority CD issue of "One
Nation..."
seems to have been made with a really compressed and limited source... it
doesn't
"breathe" at all).  But "Funkentelechy," which includes "Bop Gun" and "Flash
Light," seems pretty crucial to me, and *sounds* a lot better than the "One
Nation..." CD I bought tonight.>>

True in regards to favoring Funkadelic over Parliament. I have the One Nation
release on Charly Groove which sounds as good as my old vinyl did, so I can't
comment on that. The title track on that and Who Says A Rock Band Can't Play
Funk? hold up better than Bop Gun and Flash Light for me. Of course, I played
Parliament's Greatest Hits a million times in college and post-college which
has the latter two and not the first two so that probably has a lot to do with
it. Actually, now that I pull out Funkentelechy and look at the track listing,
Sir Nose D'Voidofunk is pretty great. It's the Funkentelechy and Placebo
Syndrome tracks that never grabbed me on this one.

<<Pelt is Donald Miller's group, right?>>

Donald Miller is in Lhasa Cement Plant. Pelt is a couple of guys from Virginia
who record for VHF.

Can we do Can next, Steve? (Tago Mago-greatest rock album ever!)

Jon
NP: Omit-Quad (Corpus Hermeticum)

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 08:58:41 -0500
From: Rusty Crump <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Fripp thinks he is a god

>Noo real Zoen content, but I know a lot of list members like
>Fripp. I saw ProjeKct Two (Fripp, Belew, Gunn) and an announcement
>was made before the show that there was no smoking, recording devices,
>or cameras allowed. During the second set a flash went off.
>Everybody left the stage mid-song. An announcement was made
>that whoever took the picture had to turn in the film to the
>sound man and be escorted out of the venue in order for the show
>to resume. About ten minutes later Fripp was back on stage and
>unravelled the roll of film and threw it into the aduience. They
>picked up right where they left off. Great show music wise, but
>Fripp seems like he has a huge ego.
>

Is it egotistical to say, "I have a set of conditions under which I will
play live. If these conditions are not met, I won't play. If these
conditions are broken during the show, I will stop playing."...? I don't
think so. Why should the audience, rather than the artist, determine the
conditions under which the show proceeds? WE pay to see THEM, after all.
That's oversimplified, and the contract involves obligations both ways, but
I admire Fripp's refusal to compromise on some issues -- particularly
audience behavior during the music.

Fripp doesn't have a huge ego, he has a keen awareness of his own value to
the "marketplace." (And a smidgen of the humility that needs to go along
with the recognition that he has value in a marketplace/talent as a
musician.) I like the guy, from what I've read, and this little story just
tickles the shit out of me. I hope I get to see him play live someday.

Rusty Crump
Oxford, Mississippi



- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 09:18:51 -0500 (CDT)
From: Brian & Sharon Beuchaw <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re:  Recent George Clinton live shows

On Fri, 5 Jun 1998 [e-mail] wrote:

> Well, I haven't seen them live for 7 or 8 years now, so I can't really answer
> your set of questions very well, except to say that Eddie Hazel (deceased) and
> Bernie Worrell and Bootsy Collins don't play with P-Funk anymore. On the other
> hand, Michael Hampton still does sometimes, depending on the show, and Maggot
> Brain live is a killer. One of the best concerts I've ever seen was The P-Funk
> All-Stars in 1990 or so playing Club Bene in Sayreville, NJ. They played for
> four hours straight, never letting up the funk.

Actually, on their Mothership tour a couple of years ago, Bootsy played
with them (and did his own little solo set in the middle of the show).
Awesome show - they pulled out the old Mothership props and played for 4
hours (which is about the normal time for a P-Funk show).  All the old
ones were with George this time around (except for Bernie, but he played
at the Central Park show, I heard), so it was definitely up to snuff.  It
was one of the funkiest shows I've ever seen and well worth the money and
time (even without Bernie :-)), so I'd recommend going, but that's just my
own opinion.

cya
brian
- --------------------------------------------------------
"The most dementing of all modern sins: the inability to
distinguish excellence from success." - David Hare


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 07:59:43 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Fripp thinks he is a god

On Thu, 4 Jun 1998 19:35:40 -0700 (PDT)  a rancid amoeba wrote:
>
> > Fripp has, from the day King Crimson began, been very much concerned with
> > having the final say about how he and the musicians who play with him are
> > represented, whether on a recording or in their live performances.  I don't
> > see that as egotism, more as perfectionism - a big difference.  While I
> > still don't completely agree with the strictness of anti-recording rules, I
> > can at least understand the reasons behind them.  I do agree that recording
> > (in any form - audio or visual) of someone's work and then selling it
> > without their approval is reprehensible.
>
> I'll make a blanket statement that artists that are preoccupied
> with attendees taping the show or taking their picture based on
> the argument that the attendee is going to make money from it
> are coming heavily from the side of egotism, not perfectionism
> or even fairness.
>
> This isn't to say that I feel that it is right to make bootlegs
> and sell them. The reality is, though, that those live bootlegs
> help the artist far more than they hurt them.

Because the discussion is drifting to "to be or not to be recorded". I did
not have that in mind when I followed up on the initial mail. My experience
was a show (about ten years ago) with (I guess) the League of Crafty
Guitarists where Fripp was surrounded by a group of young players (students?
followers?). Fripp acted like a guru surrounded by loving followers. I
thought it was embarrassing. I could not get rid off this feeling during the
all concert.

There were also books sold at the show. Just the title of them put me off.
My interpretration was that Fripp was really taking himself too seriously
(and I don't think that the music he was making at that show could justify
such seriousness).

    Patrice.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 12:30:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Fripp, but more on Photography

My wife, Susan O'Connor, has done some exceptional jazz performance
shots, but she never uses a flash. Also whenever she takes a picture she
makes sure she is as unobtrusive as possible. Many a time she has told a
musician she has taken his picture and he replies that he hasn't noticed.

That said, she only takes photos where she's allowed. Nothing from the
Victo fests, unfortunately, despite its good lighting, but quite a lot
from clubs and the recent Vision Fests.

She had an exhibition of her jazz photos at the Metro Toronto Reference
Library four years ago, that was held over, and she's going to have
another "display" at a coffee bar here for a month, starting in one week.

Anyone who wants to details etc., e-mail me privately at: [e-mail]

Ken Waxman
[e-mail]



On Fri, 5 Jun 1998, Joseph Zitt wrote:

> Jeff Spirer wrote:
>
> > Let me say as someone who has been paid by artists to photograph them in
> > concert (and published in Drum and Modern Drummer magazine) that this is
> > completely within the artist's rights and may reflect any number of
> > concerns, *not* egotism, including a feeling of intrusion, problems with
> > flash going off during a performance disturbing musicians, contracts with
> > professional photographers, club requirements (musicians often get blamed
> > for having a crowd that fucks with the rules), etc.
>
> Another definite problem with unexpected flashes: A performer who moves
> around on stage a lot (granted, that probably doesn't include Fripp :-])
> can be momentarily blinded and/or disoriented by the flash. If the
> performer is near the lip of the stage and can't see how far away it
> is, this could lead to serious injury.
> --
> ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
> |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== [e-mail] ===== Human Systems \|||
> ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \||
> |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \|
>
> -
>
>

- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V2 #385
*******************************


 To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to
       "[e-mail]"
 with
       "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest"
 in the body of the message.

 For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send
 "help" to the same address.  Do not use quotes in your message.

 A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
 subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest"
 in the commands above with "zorn-list".

 Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in
 pub/lists/zorn-list/archive.  These are organized by date.

 Problems? Email the list owner at [e-mail]