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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #381
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Tuesday, June 2 1998 Volume 02 : Number 381
In this issue:
-
Re: Touring summer 1998
fishing with john
Re: Ambient Laswell
Re: Music appreciation & anti-intellectualism
Re: Music appreciation & anti-intellectualism
New Boredoms Album
intellectualism
Strings
sunny murray
Re: Strings
Paris
Re: Paris
Re: Strings
Re: Strings
re: Music appreciation & anti-intellectualism
John Wall
Zorn-article
John Wall
cassiber/ground zero
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 00:46:22 -0400
From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Touring summer 1998
Rich Williams wrote:
> Jeff at Axiom posted the following to alt.fan.bill-Laswell
[bitchin' list of Laswell activities snipped]
Damn, Jeff, don't you post 'round here anymore?
Steve Smith
ssmith36@sprynet.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 00:32:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: leon lee <llee15@ccsf.cc.ca.us>
Subject: fishing with john
i just saw a preview for a movie called: Fishing With John. looks like a
documentary (somewhat) of john lurie fishing with tom waits, having a
grand ole time. it's suppose to be an exclusive on the independent film
tv network (?). any takers? what's this about? they play snipets of
lurie's music and shows him stuffing a fish down his pants (for fun).
what's going on? anyone seen it? i want to see it but i don't have
access to cable.
leon
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 13:57:37 +0200
From: stamil@t-online.de (Chris Genzel)
Subject: Re: Ambient Laswell
>> Divination's _Distill_ is also much more austere than the earlier
>> Divination records.
Agreed. Thomas Koner's "Zone" is frightening, and the other pieces are also
very dark.
> I'll second the Laswell/Harris album, also. I guess "dark ambience" is
> probably a good way to describe it. 2 very deep, dark, rumbling pieces.
Yes, "Somnific Flux" is a monster. These pieces have the size of planets
(not as big planets as Tangerine Dream's Zeit, but still big enough). It's
eerie.
Don't forget one of my favorite Bill Laswell CDs, "Silent Recoil - Dub System
One". It contains two wonderful ambient dub pieces (the second one with quite
long ambient stretches) and the really haunting ambient "Undercurrent (Endless
Light In The Nameless Land)".
The Subsonic 2 disc (Bill Laswell/Nicholas James Bullen: Bass Terror) also
has long, dark ambient sections. The end of Bill's "Bass Terror Tetragramaton"
and the beginning of Nik Bullen's "Noctural Crawl" are especially frightening.
And one piece which always gives me the creeps is Terre Thaemlitz's "Soul
Killer" remix on the Seven Souls CD. Ooooh, scary.
Kind regards,
- Chris.
---------------------------------------------
* Chris Genzel --- stamil@t-online.de *
* Homepage & Herbie Hancock discography at: *
* http://home.t-online.de/home/stamil/ *
---------------------------------------------
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 13:57:36 +0200
From: stamil@t-online.de (Chris Genzel)
Subject: Re: Music appreciation & anti-intellectualism
Hi Joseph,
> It might be worth looking at what else is happening in the music that
> creates a setting for the noise and chaos, either as an accepting bed
> for it or as a contrast to it.
You're right, there's more to music than just noise and chaos. I was just
selecting this as an example; there are thousands of attributes I could choose,
and most of time it would end in "I like this one, but not that one, and I
can't really say why."
> For example, I like the noise and chaos of the ending of King Crimson's
> "21st Century Schizoid Man" partially because it grows out of an
> extremely orderly song and jump cuts into the simply slow tonality of
> the mellotron flutes (I think) of "I Talk to the Wind". I don't know
> that I'd want to listen to an entire album of it. It's rather like
> textures and seasonings in food: the context and presentation are
> essential. I like some spicy food, but wouldn't chow down on a plate
> of raw chili peppers.
That's an interesting point. I often think to myself, "I love this section,
but I don't think I could stand an entire album like this". That's always
the case when listening to ballads: one, maybe two ballads on an album are
wonderful, but I don't like an album to be overloaded with them. I go crazy
about the last track on the Transmutation disc, "After Shock (Chaos Never
Died)", because it's so weird, but an entire album of this would be clearly
too much.
> I've been scratching my head on this trying to figure out why Zorn's
> "Duras" works for me while Anthony Coleman's "The Abysmal Richness of
> the Infinite Proximity of the Same" doesn't. To describe them verbally,
> they seem very similar, yet I find the impact different. I'm wondering
> if I listen to things in the Radical Jewish Culture series differently,
> and with different expectations, than I do to stuff in the Composers
> series, and whether I would have the opposite reactions if the
> packaging were swapped...
Another interesting point: how do expectations alter our reactions to music?
I don't like Julian Priester's new "Hints on Lights & Shadow" because I don't
really want Julian to play avantgarde pieces like this; if this CD was by
somebody else I might say "wow, this is really weird stuff".
Kind regards,
- Chris.
---------------------------------------------
* Chris Genzel --- stamil@t-online.de *
* Homepage & Herbie Hancock discography at: *
* http://home.t-online.de/home/stamil/ *
---------------------------------------------
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 15:43:28 +0200
From: Friedrich Feger <ffeger@gwdg.de>
Subject: Re: Music appreciation & anti-intellectualism
Chris Genzel says:
> [...] And I do not like Kenny G because he isn't
> noisy and chaotic at all. You see, the amount seems to be no criterium.
It's a different thing to LISTEN TO or APPRECIATE music without analyzing
it (I'm not talking about intellectual activity, see below) or to deny that
there actually ARE reasons for you to like or dislike the music in question
that you could communicate to us. I doubt that you exhaustively presented
your reasons of liking or disliking the artists/recordings you mentioned,
taking into account all the attributes + their amounts, the contexts, and
expectations... That is not to claim that one can order dozens of different
pieces in a transitive and perfectly judged way! So, maybe, we're about
d'accord.
Chris Genzel says:
>Right, there is no intellect necessary to appreciate music. A dumb person
can
>like music as well, and even retarded people can appreciate music.
>But I wouldn't say that analysis is an "added bonus". Well, sometimes it is.
>But sometimes, again, it can be the other way round. Some things have more
>power when you just let them engulf you instead of analyzing the components.
Okay, to recognize a melody as a melody, any kind of structure, you have to
use some intellectual capacities, but anyway... doesn't mean to literally
analyze it --- Isn't it more that you suspect the intellectual activity to
be likely to disturb the emotional side of reception?
And here it is:
>Asking "why?" creates a sort of distance between you and the
>object of your appreciation, and more often than not I want to get
>as close to it as possible.
To me, this is not necessarily the case. The intellect seems to have a
tendency to supress the "ecstatic unification" with the music, to
neutralize emotion, but I think this is an artificial opposition, at least
one you can overcome. There is a way to listen to music synthesizing the
emotional and the intellectual channel. You don't make a formal analysis or
something like that, cause that's not the way to find things you like, at
least in many cases. But you RECOGNIZE the subtle scratch in the singer's
relaxed but present voice, the laid back but pressing flow of the drums,
the dark pumping bass sound, the harmonic tension, and the necessary logic
of it all together. You recognize the relation to the context and your
expectations, your associations. You recognize all that, and you feel it
the same time, and the combination is the source of appreciaton. This is my
theory of how it all works :-)
Fritz.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 21:49:28 +0800
From: Jan-Wen Lu <janwenlu@top2.ficnet.net.tw>
Subject: New Boredoms Album
Can anyone provide me the information about the new Boredoms album
"Super Are"
and their "Super Go" single? I've heard both of them have special
editions. What's the
difference?
Also, Yamataka Eye has some collaboration works(one CD, one K7) with
Musica
Transonic on Asahito Nanjo's La Musica Records. Anyone know where to
find them?
Thanks!!
Jan-Wen Lu
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 10:42:18 -0400
From: David Keffer <keffer@shell.planetc.com>
Subject: intellectualism
>"Dominique Leone" <d_leone@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>Anyone caught in an argument about the intellectualism of music acts as
>a proponent, no?
No. There is a distinction between the destination of the argument and
the vehicle that moves the argument.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 98 16:19:20 -0300
From: hulinare@bemberg.com.ar
Subject: Strings
Hi Zornheads!
Though no one in the list seems to know Akua Dixon, any clue where to
look information on her?
On the other hand I'm particularly amazed with strings combos, specially
with the Masada String Trio (Bar Kokhba and Circle Maker, Kronos,
Balanescu among my goodies), so my question is:
What other strings combos can you recommend me (not necessarily in the
Jewish vein and if possible titles and labels)?
You can email me privately if you think it's not related to Zorn.
Thanks in advance.
- -Hugo, from Argentina
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 15:22:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org>
Subject: sunny murray
does anyone know of any sunny murray recordings more recent than the
audible hiss duo with charles gayle? you can email me privately if you want.
b
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 12:37:40 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Subject: Re: Strings
On Mon, 1 Jun 98 16:19:20 -0300 hulinare@bemberg.com.ar wrote:
>
> Hi Zornheads!
> Though no one in the list seems to know Akua Dixon, any clue where to
> look information on her?
> On the other hand I'm particularly amazed with strings combos, specially
> with the Masada String Trio (Bar Kokhba and Circle Maker, Kronos,
> Balanescu among my goodies), so my question is:
> What other strings combos can you recommend me (not necessarily in the
> Jewish vein and if possible titles and labels)?
> You can email me privately if you think it's not related to Zorn.
For some really twisted string quartet music, you should try some of Elliott
Sharp's records. To choose a new one, XENOCODEX is a great one. I am specially
found of the first composition (X-Topia) where he was able to transfer his
electronic manipulations to a live context.
Patrice.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 13:07:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: "m. rizzi" <rizzi@netcom.com>
Subject: Paris
I'll be in Paris for the next two weeks (leaving in 3 days),
are there any zorn related shows happening? What about
recommendations for music shopping?
mike rizzi
- --
rizzi@netcom.com -------------------------------------- www.browbeat.com
"Another nerd with a soulpatch"
- -------- browbeat magazine, po box 11124, oakland, ca 94611-1124 -------
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 13:19:32 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Subject: Re: Paris
On Mon, 1 Jun 1998 13:07:01 -0700 (PDT) "m. rizzi" wrote:
>
>
> I'll be in Paris for the next two weeks (leaving in 3 days),
> are there any zorn related shows happening? What about
> recommendations for music shopping?
Paris is currently one of the most depressing town for live music of the kind
we talk on this list. To my knowledge, there is practically only one club playing
"our" music: Les Instants Chavires (in Montreuil).
Patrice.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 16:05:55 -0400
From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net>
Subject: Re: Strings
Patrice L. Roussel wrote:
>
> On Mon, 1 Jun 98 16:19:20 -0300 hulinare@bemberg.com.ar wrote:
> >
> > Hi Zornheads!
> > Though no one in the list seems to know Akua Dixon, any clue where to
> > look information on her?
> > On the other hand I'm particularly amazed with strings combos, specially
> > with the Masada String Trio (Bar Kokhba and Circle Maker, Kronos,
> > Balanescu among my goodies), so my question is:
> > What other strings combos can you recommend me (not necessarily in the
> > Jewish vein and if possible titles and labels)?
> > You can email me privately if you think it's not related to Zorn.
You'd probably really enjoy Arcado String Trio. I believe all their
discs were on JMT (so now out of print) except for one on live disc on
Avant. The group originally consisted of Mark Feldman, Hank Roberts and
Mark Dresser but the Avant disc has Ernst Reijseger instead of Roberts
and the new lineup apparently has Eyvind Kang replacing Feldman. 'Behind
The Myth' was my favorite but it's out-of-print now. If you see any
copies around, pick 'em up!
Check out Gorecki's string quartets on Nonesuch. They are very unlike
anything else I've heard from Gorecki (of which I'm only moderately fond
of) and they TOTALLY kick ass. Played by the Kronos Quartet.
-Tom Pratt
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 14:54:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: SUGAR in their vitamins? <yol@esophagus.com>
Subject: Re: Strings
On Mon, 1 Jun 1998 hulinare@bemberg.com.ar wrote:
> Though no one in the list seems to know Akua Dixon, any clue where to
> look information on her?
a quick Alta Vista search
brought up more than a few websites.
the two which looked interesting
were:
http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages/ndca/Akua.htm
http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages/ndca/cc_inkfall.html
both are somehow linked to
a site called Cello City and
the NDCA.
hasta.
Yes. Beautiful, wonderful nature. Hear it sing to us: *snap* Yes. natURE.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 04:33:49 GMT
From: al.t@mtnhdw.com (Al T)
Subject: re: Music appreciation & anti-intellectualism
I think there are two topics being worked at cross purposes here:
1. whether the intellect is critical/useful/helpful to appreciate music.
2. whether it is worth subjecting ones musical appreciation to an intellectual
analysis.
Case 2 would not necessarily happen while listening to music or as a part of
listening to music. It would more likely be a reflective analysis on what sort
of creatures we are that find the sort of pleasure and meaning that we do in
music. Or what sort of creature am I that I respond in such-and-such a manner to
this or that sort of music.
The intellect is useful to me in case 1 above very rarely. Otoh, I try to make
case 2 type questions an important part of whatever I do. I'd argue that they're
important or, at the very least, a critical part of my own particular approach
to the overall enjoyment of life.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 16:39:14 +0200
From: "J.T. de Boer" <J.T.de.Boer@let.rug.nl>
Subject: John Wall
Hi all,
I recently bought a CD by John Wall. His music consists only of
samples and I'm quite impressed by the result. Can anyone give me
more info about him? The title of the album is 'Afterstill'.
Thanks,
Jeroen de Boer
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 16:44:38 +0200
From: "J.T. de Boer" <J.T.de.Boer@let.rug.nl>
Subject: Zorn-article
Hi Zornies,
the may-juni issue of "Neue Zeitschrift f=FCr Musik" (a German magazine
for contemporary music) is totally dedicated to klezmer. There is an
article about Zorn and Radical New Jewish Culture in it. Another
article that might interest you is about a.o. Hasidic New Wave. You
must be able to read German though...
Jeroen de Boer
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 17:14:33 +0000
From: shopkins@globalnet.co.uk (Simon Hopkins)
Subject: John Wall
There's stuff of interest re Wall on state51's ---+motion website:
http://www.tate51.co.uk/motion
Lots else of interest to this list. In point of admission: I've written a
lot of it myself.
Cheers
Simon Hopkins
simon hopkins
a 216 kensington park road london w11 1nr
t/f 00 44 (0)171 727 9329
c 00 44 (0)973 654 276
e simon@state51.co.uk or shopkins@globalnet.co.uk
worldwide representation for:
paul schⁿtze (7░, phantom city)
kevin martin & justin broadrick (techno animal, ice, the sidewinder)
jon hassell
the sons of silence
arashi vs red king
magus designs
nikky twyman on-line editing and proofreading
sh is an associate member of the state51 conspiracy
check out the ---+ motion website:
http://www.state51.co.uk/motion/
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 12:49:19 -0400
From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree)
Subject: cassiber/ground zero
This new gem arrived in my mailbox last week, and I've finally had a
chance to listen to it all the way through. Please bear in mind that
these are first impressions. Patrice has already published the track
listing on this list, so I won't repeat that information.
Cassiber is a semi-improvising trio with Christoph Anders, Chris
Cutler, and Heiner Goebbels, joined for this 1992 concert by Shinoda
Masami on alto. The recording is pretty good, crowd noise kept to a
minimum (a plus for me), and Masami's sax is a good addition on the
few numbers where he joins the rest of the band. They play mostly
from Face We All Know, but some songs from their earlier releases.
For those who are unfamiliar with Cassiber, Anders recites various
texts, in English and German, with accompaniment by the others. There
are instrumental interludes, but most of it has vocals. I'm not an
especially big fan of this genre, but I've been listening to Cassiber
since their first albums, and find their music to be very enjoyable.
The music can be melodic, noisy, ominous and peaceful in turns, and
there are significant differences between these live recordings and
the studio versions which they've performed in the past.
The second disk is music from the first disk, 're-mixed by
Ground-Zero.' One of the reasons I like GZ so much is their capacity
to surprise, and this disk was. The first track is a 20-minute
version of Across the Sky which sounded to me more like Oval's Diskont
94, or perhaps some primitive Finnish techno. There's a gentle
melodic loop which runs almost all the way through this piece, with a
couple of surprises along the way, but overall very peaceful. Nothing
like what I expected! But I ended up shaking my head, wondering what
Otomo would come up with next. Well, next was much more in the
musique concrete line, then a d'n'b piece (!) with beats by Masuko
Tatsuki, and more musique concrete. The final track starts in much
the same vein, but suddenly kicks in with work that would not be out
of place on the standards album, which is also the only track that
features anything like the band lineups which have graced recent GZ
releases. Cassiber references are present on this disk, but not
overwhelmingly so.
Personally, I'm very pleased with the album, but I've always liked
Cassiber and found the GZ surprise to be delightful. However, anyone
looking for a significant amount of music like previous GZ albums
should revise their expectations.
- ---
Caleb T. Deupree
;; Opinions... funny thing about opinions, they can change.
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
(Pablo Picasso)
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V2 #381
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