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Zorn List Digest         Tuesday, May 26 1998         Volume 02 : Number 377



In this issue:
-
       Re: Microtonal musicians
       Re: looking for...
       Filament Live.
       Re: serial music & why Zorn
       everything is as good as everything else
       Kronos in the Katmandu box
       Masada in Argentina
       Re: Recent Goodies
       Feeling = "Anti-Intellectualism"?
       Re: serial music & why Zorn
       Re: serial music & why Zorn
       Re: Recent Goodies

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 18:19:26 -0400
From: "Snap" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Microtonal musicians

Bruno Bossonnette wrote:


>Here's a question for all of you:  Who are the most interesting
>musicians out there who use microtonality?  I've heard a bit of Joe
>Maneri and LaMonte Young, and wouldn't mind knowing more about them, but
>who else is there?  Whether they use just-intonation or another system,
>I'm really curious about this stuff.

    For a generous listing of microtonal - or xenharmonic - music, mosey on
over to ftp://ella.mills.edu/ccm/tuning/papers/discs.html (and good luck
prioritizing your curiosities).

    P.S.: Yesterday I picked up Virgil Moorefield's "The Temperature in Hell
is Over Three-Thousand Degrees" (microtonal and on Tzadik). Quite good.

    P.P.S.: Any gamelan music from Indonesia, which antedates all Western
frolickings with xenharmonica by who-knows-how-many years, is by virtue
microtonal, and arguably the progenitrix for many an overtly curious and
aesthetically petulant composer, i.e., Harry Partch, Lou Harrison, Wendy
Carlos, Larry Polansky. 43-notes per octave or thereabouts. While
entertaining in its own right, the gamelan output wouldn't be what I'd call
an ideal launchpad for those interested, at least not as much as something
by Subotnick, Darreg, Ives, Penderecki,  Dumitrescu, and myriad others of
their ilk, who all in different ways suggest what microtonality means in a
Western context, should that be what your seeking. A majority of  all
"musique concrete" and "electro-acoustic" efforts are microtonal,
conscientiously or un-.
        My personal favorites're:
        Lou Harrison: "Lo Koro Sutro".
        Harry Partch: "Castor and Pollux", "The Bewitched" "And on the
Seventh(")__gosh, anything!
        George Crumb: "Black Angels", "Ancient Voices of Children", "Idyll
of the Misbegotten".
        Jeffrey Harrington: "Acid Bach Suite", "Oneiroscope".

P.P.P.S.: My ultimately favorite KIND of microtonal music is noise. O the
therapeutic sound of two 81/2 by 11 sheets of paper crumbling together
behind the castrato of a Hewlett-Packard 5LX-tra paper jam running the
entire solfeggio (and more) into aural esoterica to which only dogs' and
frogs' ears be properly tuned, ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh . . .
        Death to the Fret!!










- -

------------------------------

Date: 26 May 1998 03:13:29 +0200
From: Mans Engman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: looking for...

[re: Tom Pratt looking for CDs]

_Impropositions_ and _Live at Fasching_ are both in stock at
Skivhugget (www.skivhugget.se). They'll probably ship anywhere
in this galaxy if you ask them nicely and pay the shipping.

Talking about Mats Gustafsson, one of my favourite CDs right now
is _Aaly Trio+Ken Vandermark: Hidden in the stomach_ (SHCD149).
The lineup is Mats on tenor & bari sax, Ken on tenor sax and
soprano & bass clarinet, Peter Janson on double bass, and Kjell
Nordeson on drums. My terminology isn't the best, but I'd describe
this as free jazz with various improvised-instrument-noise parts.
Sometimes it's slow and melancholic, but often very intense and
mind-blowing. IMHO they play truly great; there's an awful lot of
interaction, emotion, noise, and hyper-active drumming. :-)

This is a Silkheart release, and as some of you might know
already (?), they have a web site at www.silkheart.se.

/Mans

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 21:34:18 -0400
From: "Jason J. Tar" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Filament Live.

www.bentcrayon.com put up a MP3 of the recent Filament [Otomo
Yoshihide/Sachiko M] live show in Cleveland.  It's about 23 minutes long,
and probably worth downloading if you're interested.  (I have yet to hear
it, but having witnessed the show I can attest to how good it was.  The
audio might lack without the added excitement of their wonderful playing,
but should still be interesting to hear.)

JJTar

- ---
Peace Hugs and Unity            Jason J. Tar
        W.    W.    J.    D?
                  (What would Jason Do?)
      http://pilot.msu.edu/user/tarjason

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 22:16:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: Christopher Hamilton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: serial music & why Zorn

On Tue, 26 May 1998, Snap wrote:

[a pretty funny parody of pretentious jargon]

>     Now, whether your remark about Chris Gunzel's refusal to extrapolate the
> behavior of his tympanic membranes was intentionally supercillious or just
> impulsively thought up and typed in casual, elbow-in-the-side amiability
> determines whether this obliquy of mine is likewise hawkish or aloof.

After making sure I knew what 'supercilious' meant, neither.  At worst, my
intentions were merely a bit pedantic.  Chris Gunzel seemed to be saying
that discussion of the whys and hows of music appreciation was worthless.
Others have said similar things on this list in the past.  I find such
discussion both enjoyable and useful.  I don't mind if others aren't
interested in that sort of discussion, but it surprises me when they feel
the need to attack it.  Chris's attack was, of course, very gentle and
good-humored, and I'm sorry if the style of my post suggested to him,
Snap, or anyone else that I was offended, hostile, or supercilious.

Chris Hamilton


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 00:58:14 +0000
From: "Charles Gillett" <[e-mail]>
Subject: everything is as good as everything else

On Tue, 26 May 1998 18:14:02 -0400, "Snap" wrote:
> Chris Hamilton wrote:
> >    Trying to answer this question might well teach you something important
> >about yourself or the stars or both.  I'm regularly surprised by the
> >anti-intellectualism adopted by so many people when it comes to music.
>
>     And I myself am not at all surprised by the unerring elitism and
> two-dimensional attempts at aesthetic erudition adopted by those on this
> list who have the unmitigated propensity to objectify and thus coronate
> their personal system of valuing a medium of art which is wholly palatial,
> by that I mean pertinent to one's own tastes,
[etc.]
>     The last thing we need is a musical Rush Limbaugh (who is a big fat
> idiot) flinging his corpulence that way and this, parading down his
> rose-strewn path of righteousness, kicking all thorns onto those who see the
> path not as an end in itself, but as a means toward some nectar of sound.

   I believe Mr. Hamilton was just saying that thinking about why you
like what you like might lead toward a better understanding of who you
are.  I don't think he was telling us that there is a true and right
way to understand and enjoy music.  The point isn't to answer the
question, it's to *try* to answer the question.

   I'd be surprised if you actually think that it isn't worth doing,
that we should wander through life without ever asking "Why?"  And I
don't see how asking yourself "why" has anything to do with elitism
or musical fascism.  If you share the results of your introspection,
I see it as a valuable insight into another point of view; if you
share the results of your introspection and tell me that it's the
only right way to be, then I call you a jerk, but I don't think Mr.
Hamilton was doing this or encouraging this.

   The problem, of course, is that the various aesthetic issues
which are debated at a low level here and on every other list I get
have been wrestled with for a couple thousand years with precious
little advancement.  If you got a group of non-musicians together
and told them to play Beethoven's 5th, the only people who wouldn't
think it was horrid would be a) people who know nothing about the
piece and b) people who think it's all groovy, man, just do what you
feel.  Now, maybe what these non-musicians came up with would be
interesting and fun to listen to, but it wouldn't be Beethoven's
5th--though I wouldn't be surprised if someone argued that it was.
People seem to like to do that sort of thing (witness the argument
on the Robyn Hitchcock list, of all places, over whether D-sharp
is actually the same as E-flat).

   What does that mean?  It seems like the big issue is whether
or not you can take a rather absurd example like mine and develop
it into a coherent and universal aesthetic, and it seems like the
answer is no.  Why do we talk about it?  Hell if I know.  This
kind of talk puts me in a foul mood.  Let's just blow up the planet
and be done with it.  Rap isn't music, Derek Bailey is a faker, and
Bill Laswell has destroyed jazz for an entire generation.


- -- Charles

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 May 98 12:47:09 -0300
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Kronos in the Katmandu box

"Pieces of Africa" (Nonesuch) is perhaps one the most inspired detour
yet for the Kronos.
The album is neatly framed by buoyant pieces by Zimbabwe musician
Dumisani Masaire. Foday Muso Suso's "Tilliboyo" balances Suso's own kora
playing with pizzicato responses from the quartet. Sudanese Hamza El
Din's passionate "Escalay" is -in my opinion- the album's centerpiece;
though tragic, this song will knock you out.
If you want to try nice string playing of African tunes, check this out
and don't miss it.

- -Hugo, from Argentina

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 May 98 14:40:59 -0300
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Masada in Argentina

This excerpt was taken from a local newspaper (Clarin) on May 20th, last
week.

New edition of "Experimenta '98".
Experimental and avant artists will play in Argentina from June to
December '98, as follows.

JUNE 24, 25 & 26
Alvin Lucier, Ron Kuivila and Nic Collins

JULY 10,11 & 12
Jin Hi Kim and Joseph Celli

AUGUST 13,14 & 15
Palinckx (from Holland)- Tony Buck and 15 musicians who will improvise
conducted by Butch Morris

SEPTEMBER 11,12 & 13
Lee Ranaldo, William Hooker and Leah Singer

OCTOBER
Mark Dresser, Bob Ostertag and Eugene Chadbourne- Guy Klusevsek

NOVEMBER
Dr. Nerve, Earle Brown and Michael Schell
Tato Taborda, Chico Mello and Tim Rescala (Brazil)

DECEMBER 11,12 & 13
John Zorn Masada (w/Baron, Zorn, Cohen & Douglas)- Fred Frith Guitar
Quartet- John Sandborn

From Argentina:J. Casalla, D. Bolotin, A. Teran, M. Iannaccone (Sring
Quartet)- Adriana de los Santos (piano)- Jorge Sad & Ensemble.

Incidentally, Buenos Aires is not New York City so it will be amazing to
listen to all these musicians, for the first time ever in many cases.

And Masada, you know...

(very excited)-Hugo, from Argentina




- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 15:06:00 UT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Recent Goodies

Okay, I been away for a week, but I saw Caleb's questioning of Marclay's
Records.  I'd say, yeah, it's definitely a historical collection, some of which
is interesting, and some which sort of drags, but if you liked Black Stucco or
the last piece or, um, Night Music, then you'd probably like Marclay's release
on ReR, which I forget the title of.  There he dedicates each track to a
particular artist and uses only recordings of that artist.  There's your
plunderphonics.  It's next on my to get list, but I've heard "Maria Callas" and
it's excellent.  Plus, I dig Marclay as the master phono-blaster, and so maybe
I'm biased.  In any case, I'd go there.

A fellow plunderphile,
PeterR

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 22:57:11 +0200
From: [e-mail] (Chris Genzel)
Subject: Feeling = "Anti-Intellectualism"?

 On Sun, 24 May 1998, I wrote:

>>    I don't really care why I like the stuff I like. I just like it, and I'm
>>    feeling very comfortable with this. The "why"s and "how"s are not only
>>    different from person to person, but also for me from piece to piece.
>>    Question: do you like watching the stars? why?

 Mr. Hamilton answered:

>    Trying to answer this question might well teach you something important
> about yourself or the stars or both.

 What possible important information could you get by just looking up to the
 sky and watching the stars, getting lost in thoughts and appreciating the
 beauty of a night sky?

> I'm regularly surprised by the
> anti-intellectualism adopted by so many people when it comes to music.

 Actually, my friends would laugh at the idea of me being
 anti- or non-intellectualistic. :)

 There are two ways of enjoying music: on a intellectual level or on a, say,
 visceral one. The first one has to do with analyzing, the second one with
 feeling. Now tell me, how can you appreciate a ballad when saying "ah, there
 are A chords followed by D chords" etc. instead of feeling the melancholy of
 these chords? I won't say you shouldn't analyze music. I often do it myself,
 but I do it to see what's there in a track, how it works, and not to figure
 out why or why not I like it. I like something just because of it.

 May I give you an example of why I can't apply certain characteristics
 (reasons) to music based on which I like or dislike something. One of my
 recent purchases was Ground-Zero's "Revolutionary Pekinese Opera" (thanks to
 the person on the list who recommended GZ!). I really love this record. If
 I'd be asked what exactly is so great about it, I'd say it's so chaotic,
 noisy and full of manic energy that I feel like being high. On the other
 hand there are the Y.Eye tracks on "Naked City", which ... well, I don't
 really dislike them, but I also wouldn't mind if they were missing. And why?
 Because I find them too chaotic and noisy, and Eye's manic energy is some-
 times getting on my nerves. You see, I can name the same reasons for liking
 and for disliking something. The truth is that Ground-Zero feels right for
 me and the Eye tracks don't. This may be (and certainly is) completely
 different for other people, but that's the whole point.

 And snap wrote to Mr. Hamilton:

>     That you failed to extract from what he had said about his attraction to
> Zorn's recordings shows that your attention is channeled toward some red
> herring of a demagogic ideal - or ideals - with which some of us may be
> unaware (they say age is requisite to wisdom) and therefore unconcerned. For
> Chris Genzel HAS just told us why he likes Zorn's music: FOR
> NON-INTELLECTUAL REASONS. [In tandem with some of his personality traits,
> perhaps, albeit intrinsically, the Vedantic method of defrocking things like
> "science" and "reason"(which has been stood upon its head for quite some
> time now) clearly his way of dispensing with demons of sophistry and
> possibly even enriching his listening pleasure.]

 I guess that this adds to my listening pleasure, because I can surrender to
 the flow of the piece, get lost in its sounds, and I often get a good idea of
 what the musicians/composer wanted to express. Actually, more often than not,
 this leads me to liking most music in one way or another.

 Kind regards,
 - Chris.

 ---------------------------------------------
 *    Chris Genzel --- [e-mail]    *
 * Homepage & Herbie Hancock Discography at: *
 *    http://home.t-online.de/home/stamil/   *
 ---------------------------------------------


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 13:56:00 PDT
From: "Jeff Schuth" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: serial music & why Zorn

>>
>    And I myself am not at all surprised by the unerring elitism and
>two-dimensional attempts at aesthetic erudition adopted by those on
this
>list who have the unmitigated propensity to objectify and thus coronate
>their personal system of valuing a medium of art which is wholly
palatial,
>by that I mean pertinent to one's own tastes, and even at times to
one's own
>causality - a sequence of events and fixations in life may lead up to
one's
>preference of a genre over another; an observation as demanded, I know,
but
>entirely arbitrary when all that really might matter to a person is
>gastro-intestinal bliss.
>    Just who the hell do you think your kidding?  Do you always sit and
write an informal response with a thesaurus?  I mean, your not talking
above my level or anything, but the language is not fluent.  Besides, if
you were really that naturally efficient in English, shouldn't your
grammar be perfect?


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 18:48:45 -0400
From: "Snap" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: serial music & why Zorn

Jeff Shuth wrote:


>
>>>
>>    And I myself am not at all surprised by the unerring elitism and
>>two-dimensional attempts at aesthetic erudition adopted by those on
>this
>>list who have the unmitigated propensity to objectify and thus coronate
>>their personal system of valuing a medium of art which is wholly
>palatial,
>>by that I mean pertinent to one's own tastes, and even at times to
>one's own
>>causality - a sequence of events and fixations in life may lead up to
>one's
>>preference of a genre over another; an observation as demanded, I know,
>but
>>entirely arbitrary when all that really might matter to a person is
>>gastro-intestinal bliss.
>>    Just who the hell do you think your kidding?  Do you always sit and
>write an informal response with a thesaurus?  I mean, your not talking
>above my level or anything, but the language is not fluent.  Besides, if
>you were really that naturally efficient in English, shouldn't your
>grammar be perfect?
>
    First of all, I don't even own a thesaurus. Secondly, my grandiloquence
(ahem - I'm sorry, how about "overtly wordy writing or speaking") is a way
of cramming as much information into as brief a space as possible. Why's
everything got to be so simple? Verbosity is like an inside-joke or a
musician's homogeneous dialect based upon preconceptions, much like Zorn's
"The Classic Guide to Strategy". Have you considered yet that my scattergun
approach to words was a deliberate lampooning of what seems to creep its way
onto this list quite often?
    Epistolary vindications aside, I do feel comfortable knowing that I
never confuse "your" (possessive determiner) with "you're" (contraction). So
much for mellifluity.

You're pal,
Snap




- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 15:06:00 UT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Recent Goodies

Okay, I been away for a week, but I saw Caleb's questioning of Marclay's
Records.  I'd say, yeah, it's definitely a historical collection, some of which
is interesting, and some which sort of drags, but if you liked Black Stucco or
the last piece or, um, Night Music, then you'd probably like Marclay's release
on ReR, which I forget the title of.  There he dedicates each track to a
particular artist and uses only recordings of that artist.  There's your
plunderphonics.  It's next on my to get list, but I've heard "Maria Callas" and
it's excellent.  Plus, I dig Marclay as the master phono-blaster, and so maybe
I'm biased.  In any case, I'd go there.

A fellow plunderphile,
PeterR

- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V2 #377
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