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Zorn List Digest         Sunday, May 10 1998         Volume 02 : Number 361



In this issue:
-
       Re: Magazines (& reviews & reviewers)
       Critics
       Re: Sharpish
       Cage
       Re: Magazines
       Magazines
       Recent Goodies
       Serialism

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 15:57:22 -0800
From: George Grella <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Magazines (& reviews & reviewers)

Rusty Crump writes:


> BUT!! I have to say the Penguin Guide to Jazz on CD is the most successful
> volume of reviews and criticism I've ever seen. It was more of a
> page-turner than the most exciting, potboiling, testosterone-soaked crime
> novel in existence. For me, that is.
>
> So, that leads to a question: Does anybody know when the next edition of
> the Penguin Guide is going to be published? I can't wait to read a more
> thorough assessment of Zorn in light of his last four or five years' work.
>

Amen, brother!  The Guide is great, indispensible!  It was given to me
as a Christmas present, and although I already haev a fairly extensive
collection and don't use it that often to guage purchases, it's a
pleasure to read and re-read the discussion of music I already know or
of music I've never imagined.  What is so invaluable, IMO, is how
through the reviews the Guide gives dense and concise musical
biographies of so many musicians.

It's got it's inconsistencies [why are so many Dave Holland records
praised and given three stars, which is "good," not "great"] and it's
got an obvious bias towards English musicians [the Penguin Classical
Guide is the same] but there's nothing else like it.  It's so much more
than a collection of reviews.  I've been wondering, same as you, when
the next editrion is coming out, also very curious about the new Zorn
CDs they may cover, especially in light of their wonderful comment on
him in the last edition as the "ambivalent superstar of the
avant-garde."

gg


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 18:10:39 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Dragon -------- Frog)
Subject: Critics

I didn't say Kremsky was a poor critic, I said he dismissed music I liked
and seemed to have mainstream tastes. The first is an objective fact. The
second is an impression which may or not be true. I actually had a very
integrous discussion with him via post about our differences, and he
wasn't the least bit defensive. I have great respect for the man. But
different musical tastes.

DF "Strawman" Sinner

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- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 03:50:26 +0200
From: Benjamin Pequet <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Sharpish

George,-

Thank you for your answer, that clarifies much of the way I may have
understood some statements you made and I wanted to reply to. Do I have to
say I didn't mean to be personal and offend you ? I am sincerely sorry if I
did.

In your answer you clearly put things right about the meaning in which you
take the word politic, and hence why we can't agree. So do you with
post-modernism.
You say music is a political thing if it wants to be or if listeners make it
so for themselves. No, music is economic and music is politic, not just if
it wants to be (and by the way I have no clue how music could ever chose
anything for itself). My point was that I am really fighting and having a
hard time to find my way into the music I listen to because it is meaningful
to me - be it for esthetic reasons or politic or whatever you wish to
qualify my reasons.
If your status of musician or composer lifts you above all that then what
can I tell you, it's great. For me
whatever I am and wherever I live and however clever and free thinker I try
to be I am not above that, it doesn't work. I can't nor do I want to get rid
of the thought that expressions are screened by an amount of political and
economical parameters, canalized in the press and media, that our tastes are
shaped in a way or another by what we get to listen, etc.
To me this is political, in the way that it affects social life. And it
becomes violent, in the way that as individuals we don't really have a
choice or that our choices are considerably limited, expressions disappear
everyday because they don't get to be listened to.

In my acception that's political also because there are things to do here,
expressions to support and things to make change.
It is a fact we all who are on this list listen to Zorn I guess so I am not
sure what point you try to make,
I hope we all listen to Zorn's work for different reasons that you would
never have me here starting to phrase - and not for some kind of homogenous
big-ball-of-proper-political-thinking-and-political-music-appreciation you
talk about (and that in the first place you imply would be possible, well I
think that's a bit delirious of you).

I think you chose to take a definition of what is political and what is not
that is less inclusive than mine. In my sense then you don't make a
political choice when you think you are making one. But I understand that
you are logical with your way of looking at things.

I really do think that an objectivity has to be reached at another level
that where you see it though. But I understand I have nothing to convince
you of.
Same thing when you talk about a Post-Modern society.

Post-modernity in my acception is for example the point of view of a society
that relies on past experiences and assumes that the same causes will lead
to the same consequences. From the moment mondialisation occured (which is
only one element of post-modernity) don't we have to face that when we touch
on a parameter of the whole system, the change has repercussions at every
esthetic, social, psychological and at any other level you can consider
culture, and at a pace ever-increasing that the world didn't know before ? I
am not talking philosophically, I am talking facts.
Isn't in that environment that Zorn explodes the frontiers between classical
music and the other music, the music-that-is-not-serious ? Isn't Uitti ?
Isn't Sharp ?
Was a change like that only possible before 1950 ?
My understanding, that you may find simple, is that someone like Boulez is
perpetuating a savant difference between classical music and the other
music. Even if numerous examples can be found that he made things evolve, my
point is that the changes he brought about were superficial and only
clouding the issues I am trying to talk about (and I think you do too).

In what you say something strikes me each time, it is when you shield your
opinion behind your status of composer or musician, as if this allowed you a
position outside of the game and hence gave an objective and indiscutable
quality to your statements.
You can decide for you that you are not making politics if you decide not
to, but for me it's a politic statement as well, and with which thus I can't
agree, at any level. But if that's just to do with the definition I have of
politics and you of yours that's fine and I don't want to fight for that, as
long as we understand that our mutual views are valid.

You know, I used the word post-modern and you put capitals to it,
Post-Modernism, and you attribute to it a meaning I don't recognize. You
seem to make it a Country on which some kind of Orthodoxy rules and that
tries to submit the rest of the world, accusing you and who doesn't accept
it of Fascism.
Well again, being against post-modernism doesn't make any sense. How is it
to be against mondialisation and the proliferation of informations, how is
it to be against the liberation of nuclear energy ? If I am against the
internet, so what ? I am not sure what you mean and what you are talking
about that Ligeti rejects post-modernism, I don't think we have the option
to reject what the world has become. Rejecting it, yes but in aknowledging
it first and finding alternatives, proposing action on it. Am I making
myself clear ?

I am sorry if you thought I accused you of being a fascist. I wouldn't like
you treating me of Zorn-worshipper for example so I'm really sorry if I
seemed to be saying that your views were on the edge...

Actually I can't really believe you accused me of defending or representing
some kind of a Zorn-cult in your reply, hell I hate the idea. Did I really
say something that made you think so ?

Otherwise I understand we might get to such a ridiculous situation where you
would for example be ready to quote a booklet (as gospel ?) that you don't
have right there, to denounce and prove wrong some kind of orthodoxy and
fan-worship that you see me represent and defend.
Or you would ask me if I think Zorn (gospel ?) would find appealing the view
you accuse me of.
Maybe you would even get to the point of accusing me of the precise thing
you think I accuse you of.

I haven't been on this list long enough to really see orthodoxy. Except
maybe what I tried to articulate in the precise letter you react to, when I
said people here seem to be very cautious not to talk in a way that might
seem negative, of a musician, or a composer for example.

>Piano Etudes [Ligeti series #6, I believe, performed by Pierre-Laurent
>Aimard, pianist with that horrible Ensemble Intercontemporain, under
>that dreadful old-fart who recorded Zappa for all the wrong reasons and
>who obviously ignored all the signs that one morning he woke up in a
>world that was suddenly Post-Modern, Pierre Boulez].  If that makes

I don't think Boulez woke up in a world that was suddenly post-modern,
that's precisely his problem.

But hey, George. I like your sarcasm too and I understand that you were
pissed off at what I wrote. I repeat my apologies if you felt personnally
offended, it was not my intend.
Besides that I appreciate the valuable information you distil in your
answer, and I'll look forward to read from you again.

Sincerely,  Benjamin



>????  Music is a poltiical thing if it wants to be, or if listeners make
>it so for themselves.  Eisler is consciously political and can be
>listened to and evaluated that way.  Rzewski is consciously poltiical
>and consciously musical and can be listened to either way or both ways.
>Shostakovich tried not to be political but was listened to that way and
>suffered for it.  But does any of this have to be this way?  No.  No
>composer is compelled to make political music and no listener is obliged
>to listen politically.  It's a choice.  Benjamin, if you feel you are
>making a political statement by listening to John Zorn, more power to
>you.  However, the personal IS NOT the political TO ME, and shouldn't
>that be my personal/political choice?  I am on the John Zorn list
>because I like this stuff as MUSIC, which also means that if there's a
>Zorn work I don't like as MUSIC, like "Kristallnacht," then I don't like
>it, regardless of politics, which just clouds all the issues of
>listening and thinking and enjoying, IMO.
>
>For me, that choice means that I have no taste for Eisler, because I
>find his music inferior, regardless of his politics; I love Rzeswki,

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 21:21:17 PDT
From: "Wilfredo Casas" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Cage

In which recording I find Cage's "4'33''"? Or can you recommend some
Cage CD's for me?

I'll appreciate your help.

Thank you,
Juan

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 11:23:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bob Boster <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Magazines

On Thu, 7 May 1998, Michael Howes wrote:

>
> Anybody ever read Tuba Frenzy when it was around? That was solid but I
> haven't seen an issue in a year or so....


new issue just went to the printer, available in maybe 3 weeks...

Bob Boster
sometimes Tuba Frenzy contributor and Chapel Hill expatriate


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 09 May 1998 22:15:26 +0200
From: Vincent Martin <[e-mail]>
Subject: Magazines

In English :
THE WIRE is the most professional
In French :
OCTOPUS, subjects similar to the Wire, but not regular
REVUE ET CORRIGEE : best, concrete music, contemporary, rock, video ...
IMPROJAZZ : very nice interview from Wyatt in the last one
PEACE WARRIOR : including the special Fred Frith (complete discography
ART ZERO : Free Webezine (see address below)
Is there a Web site showing all the links and addresses ?

Vincent
- --
             Alors
les lettres d'un neon surnaturel a l'arete de basalte
     d'un promontoir taille de prismes
guidees par les hesitations d'un solo d'orgue
            ont ecrit
          SAVE YOURSELF       Dashiell Hedayat (Le Bleu Le Bleu)
      Art Zero : http://www.mygale.org/~bsadour/




- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 13:07:39 -0400
From: Brian Olewnick <[e-mail]>
Subject: Recent Goodies

JOHN LUTHER ADAMS    CLOUDS OF UNKNOWING, CLOUDS OF FORGETTING
            (New World)

The other John Adams. Between the title and the new-agey cover design,
I'm sure I would've passed this up on my own, but I was intrigued by an
enthusiastic review given by Kyle Gann in the Voice a couple of months
back. Should've followed my instincts. It's a piece for chamber
orchestra, aggravatingly (to me) mystical in tone (and explicitly meant
to be, according to the composer's liner notes), that hovers in the
territory between Feldman, Anthony Davis and the other Adams, though
coming nowhere near the beauty and brilliance of the former two and only
approaching generic non-Luther Adams. Bland and fuzzy. The drop-off from
first-rate to second-rate Feldman strikes me as precipitous. If anyone
has heard other, better works from this guy, please let me know.

EARLE BROWN        FOUR SYSTEMS        HAT NOW

My first time really listening to Brown and it's a winner. There are two
versions of 'Folio II' for solo (overdubbed) flute performed by Eberhard
Blum (using slide-whistle and vocalisation techniques as well as
'normal' flute-playing) following three calligraphic scores, both
enjoyable. The title track (37 min.), again for overdubbed flutes (the
the score calls for any instrument), is gorgeous. The score, in four
sections, consists of several layers of dashes of varying thicknesses
and lengths for the performer to interpret as he pleases. Blum tends
towards long, held tones with a somewhat harsh edge that give the piece
a sensuous, tactile quality. The work raises the obvious question: How
much is Brown, how much Blum? I'd enjoy hearing descriptions of other
versions of the piece as I imagine they vary widely. Do they all have
'something' of Earle Brown (some, ahem, Brownian movement)?
Recommendations of other Brown work would also be appreciated.

LEE HYLA        WE SPEAK ETRUSCAN        NEW WORLD

I had heard bits of Hyla's Avant release and had been underwhelmed, but
when I found this in the HMV bin for $2.99, I figured it was worth the
risk and, basically, it was. Five pieces arranged symetrically, the
first and fifth for chamber orchestra (the latter a piano concerto), the
second and fourth are string quartets and the central piece is a duet
for baritone sax and bass clarinet, performed by Tim Berne and Tim
Smith. This last is a good bit of fun, with much energetic playing and
writing. I also enjoyed the piano concerto, some of it reminding me a
bit of Anthony Davis' great 'Variations in Dream-Time', if not quite up
to that level. Throughout, Hyla's writing is solid in a kind of jazzy
post-Bartok vein. Not bad.

All for now,

Brian Olewnick

Listening to: Bob Telson's 'The Gospel at Colonus'. Whatever became of
Jevetta Steele? What a voice!

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 17:06:06 +1000
From: Peter Hollo <[e-mail]>
Subject: Serialism

This sounds more like an article from the satirical magazine The Onion
(www.theonion.com) than a real news article but apparently it's genuine.
Speaking as a musician (and indeed one who's not particularly keen on
twelve-tone music on the whole) it seems like it's a joke (note the
"comments" from various minimalists and so on)... what do y'all think?

Actually, rereading it, it seems like it's claiming Serialism was a Nazi
plot (?), which betrays perhaps a lack of knowledge that Schoenberg was
Jewish, if nothing else...

Seen on another list:
>> Composer Webern was Double Agent for Nazis
>>
>> By Heinrich Kincaid
>>
>> .c The Associated Press
>>
>> BERLIN, GERMANY (AP) - Recent admissions by an ex-Nazi official
>> living in Argentina have confirmed what some musicologists have
>> suspected for years: that early twentieth century German composer
>> Anton Webern and his colleagues devised the so-called "serial"
>> technique of music to encrypt messages to Nazi spies living in the
>> United States and Britain.
>>
>> In what can surely be considered the most brazen instance of Art
>> Imitating Espionage to date, avant garde composers of the Hitler
>> years working in conjunction with designers of the Nazi Enigma code
>> were bamboozling unsuspecting audiences with their atonal thunderings
>> while at the same time passing critical scientific data back and
>> forth between nations.
>>
>> "This calls into question the entire Second Viennese School of
>> music," announced minimalist composer John Adams from his home in the
>> Adirondack Mountains.  "Ever since I first encountered compositions
>> by Arnold Schonberg I wondered what the hell anyone ever heard in it.
>> Now I know."
>>
>> Gunned down by an American soldier in occupied Berlin, 62 year old
>> Anton Webern's death was until now considered a tragic loss to the
>> musical world. At the time the U.S. Army reported that the killing
>> was "a mistake", and that in stepping onto the street at night to
>> smoke a cigarette Webern was violating a strict curfew rule.
>>
>> It is now known that Webern was using music to shuttle Werner
>> Heisenberg's discoveries in atomic energy to German spy Klaus Fuchs
>> working on the Manhattan atom bomb project in New Mexico.  Due to the
>> secret nature of the project, which was still underway after the
>> invasion of Berlin, Army officials at the time were unable to
>> describe the true reason for Webern's murder.
>>
>> Hans Scherbius, a Nazi party official who worked with Minister of
>> Propaganda Joseph Goebbels, admitted at age eighty-seven that the
>> Nazis secretly were behind the twelve-tone technique of composition,
>> which was officially reviled to give it the outlaw status it needed
>> to remain outside of the larger public purview.
>>
>> "These pieces were nothing more than cipher for encoding messages,"
>> he chuckled during an interview on his balcony in Buenos Aires.  "It
>> was only because it was 'naughty' and difficult that elite audiences
>> accepted it, even championed it."
>>
>> Physicist Edward Teller, who kept a 9-foot Steinway piano in his
>> apartment at the Los Alamos laboratory, was the unwitting deliverer
>> of Heisenburg's data to Fuchs, who eagerly attended parties thrown by
>> Teller, an enthusiastic booster of Webern's music.
>>
>> Arnold Schonberg, the older musician who first devised the serial
>> technique at the request of the Weimar government of Germany,
>> composed in America to deliver bomb data stolen by Fuchs back to the
>> Nazis, who worked feverishly to design their own atomic weapons.
>>
>> As an example, Scherbius showed Associated Press reporters the score
>> of Webern's Opus 30 "Variations for Orchestra" overlayed with a
>> cardboard template.  The notes formed a mathematical grid that
>> deciphered into German a comparison between the neutron release
>> cross-sections of uranium isotopes 235 and 238.
>>
>> Schonberg responded with a collection of songs for soprano and
>> woodwinds that encrypted the chemical makeup of the
>> polonium-beryllium initiator at the core of the Trinity explosion.
>>
>> And in Japan, Toru Takemitsu took time out from his own
>> neo-romanticism to transmit data via music of his nation's progress
>> with the atom.
>>
>> "The most curious thing about it," says composer Philip Glass in New
>> York City, "is that musicians continued to write twelve-tone music
>> after the war, even though they had no idea why it was really
>> invented.  Indeed, there are guys who are churning out serialism to
>> this day."
>>
>> Unlike the diatonic music, which is based on scales that have been
>> agreed upon by listeners throughout the world for all of history,
>> twelve-tone music treats each note of the chromatic scale with equal
>> importance, and contains a built-in mathematical refusal to form
>> chords that are pleasing by traditional standards.  Known also as
>> serialism, the style has never been accepted outside of an elite
>> cadre of musicians, who believe it is the only fresh and valid
>> direction for post-Wagnerian classical music to go.
>>
>> "Even if this is really true," states conductor Pierre Boulez, a
>> composer who continues to utilyze serial techniques, "the music has
>> been vindicated by music critics for decades now.  I see no reason to
>> suddenly invalidate an art form just because of some funny business
>> at its inception."
>>
>> AP-NY-05-06-98 1716EDT

Yeah, well reading it again, it's certainly a parody... I think?

Peter.
- --
Peter Hollo    [e-mail]    http://www.cia.com.au/raven/
             FourPlay - Eclectic Electric String Quartet
              http://www.cia.com.au/raven/fourplay.html
"Of course, dance music can be a music where you lie on your back and
your brain cells dance" -Michael Karoli of Can, quoted in Wire mag.




- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V2 #361
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