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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #357
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Thursday, May 7 1998 Volume 02 : Number 357
In this issue:
-
Re: James Bond
Shea
Gerry Hemingway in Philadelphia
wha?
Faqts
Re: Avant magazine
american musicians wanted
ducret
Re: Avant magazine
re: Have you heard...?
Kang's theater of mineral NADES
Zappa/Watson
RE: Avant magazine
american musicians wanted again
Re: Zappa/Watson
Re: Music & Jargon
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 10:05:32 +0200
From: Yves Dewulf <yves@inwpent1.rug.ac.be>
Subject: Re: James Bond
Well, I seems that my original statement on the composer of the
James Bond Theme was wrong. Some more evidence:
I found this on a John Barry-fan page:
(http://users.cybercity.dk/~ccc7447/barry2.html)
>> In 1962 in happened. Barry was asked to arrange the title-tune for
the very first James Bond-Movie: Dr.No based on Ian Fleming's novel.
The used title theme is composed by John Barry, disregarding that
Monty Norman is still being credited for the theme, because of the old
contract made in 1962. The disclosure came in 1990 by the late Terence
Young, the director of Dr.No. Barry got 200 pounds for the job in
1962.<<
YVes
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 10:19:23 +0200
From: Yves Dewulf <yves@inwpent1.rug.ac.be>
Subject: Shea
Yesterday was the world-premiere of the
Electric Chamber symphony Nr.1 by David Shea for
Chamber Orchestra (Ictus-ensemble) and Sampler.
It was amazing. Imagine something like Ligeti's Atmospheres meets
Zorn's Elegy meets Carl Stalling and you're not even close to what it
sounded like. Nice Job!
Before the symphony, there was a mind-blowing version of Tex
(piano/sampler) and a solo-sampler version of Satyricon
(nice to see that about half the audience (well-known Belgian
composers included), were putting their
fingers in their ears during the drum'n'bass finale))
YVes
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 09:53:26 -0400
From: Alan E Kayser <aek1@erols.com>
Subject: Gerry Hemingway in Philadelphia
<HTML>
Zorn listers:
<P>The Gerry Hemingway Quartet will be in Philadelphia on May 22.
Check out the info at
<BR><A HREF="http://www.erols.com/aek1">http://www.erols.com/aek1</A>
<BR><A HREF="http://www.cdchoice.com">http://www.cdchoice.com</A><BR CLEAR=BOTH>
<BR>
<BR><A HREF="http://www.cdchoice.com"></A>
<BR><A HREF="http://www.cdchoice.com"></A> </HTML>
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 10:45:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org>
Subject: wha?
> Nathaniel Doward quotes Ben Watson:
> However, what he does contribute is a sense of freewheeling absurdity
> that academic composers find impossible to attempt without sounding
> tiresome. ...
"academic" is synonymous with tedium in classical music. why bother with
the comparison? is zappa only interesting when contrasted with the driest
of academic composers?
b
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 17:29:03 +0200
From: Benjamin Pequet <benjamin@club.integral.be>
Subject: Faqts
Also I was wondering... where actually to find information about the Zorn ?
I mean the person and his work. I don't have the opportunity to be roaming
the net through hundreds of sites now, so I ask if there are some sites I
should consider ? Other than the Knit's ?
Probably this is a very trite request, but I don't know where to find the
faqs either. And this could be of interest for not just me but if that's too
frequently asked questions you can email me privately and sorry for taking
space on your hard discs.
I was told some time ago that he doesn't give interviews and that the
sources should be what he writes in the booklets of his cds. Is that still
true ? Is there a place on the net where these texts are posted ? And where
these texts and other things are commented, sociological perspective or so ?
Well, thanks a lot. Benj
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 10:31:22 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com>
Subject: Re: Avant magazine
On Wed, 6 May 1998, Lang Thompson wrote:
> The new issue of Cadence lists a few issues of a magazine called Avant. Is
> it worth getting and do the cassettes with it have any unreleased music?
If it's the same magazine that I picked up a copy of recently, It's
wonderful -- makes The Wire looks like Teen Beat.... Wow, looking at the
Cadence listing for Avant issue 5, it looks like it's the one. I'm
ordering ASAP. Thanks for the pointer!
- - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \|||
||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \||
|/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \|
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 18:06:33 +0200 (MSZ)
From: BJOERN <bjoern.eichstaedt@student.uni-tuebingen.de>
Subject: american musicians wanted
well,
this is a bit off-topic but i am sure some of the people on this list can
help me:
we (some free improv musicians from tuebingen/germany) got a relatively
big amount of money from our local GERMAN-AMERICAN INSTITUTE to do a
series of concerts with free improvising musicians from the states....
that means..some of us will play with the musician comin from abroad..
since it is not THAT much money we are looking for musicians who are in
germany or near germany between october 97 and mai 98 and who are
interested to play here (i guess we`ll be able to pay a few hundred
dollars....)
anyone who is a musician and is interested please contact me...
if you know musicians please forward this email to em...
\
thankx
BJOERN
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 12:31:42 -0400 (EDT)
From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org>
Subject: ducret
i picked up the new marc ducret solo guitar cd this weekend @ tim berne's
paraphrase show here in d.c. the disc starts out with some distorted,
energy-sound playing reminiscent of sonny sharrock's _guitar_, ian
williams heavier riffing in storm & stress, and of course ducret's own
spazzed-out fretwork on berne's _pace yourself_. subsequent songs are
cleaner and more minimal. ducret manages to skirt around the edges of
the more conventional jazz guitar idiom without ever sounding conventional.
the recording sounds great and from what i can tell, it doesn't appear to
have any overdubs.
like the other screwgun releases, _un certain malaise_ is packaged in
a tortoise-style, brown cardboard case, but what really sold me was the
cover's robotic spanking motif.
b
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 18:30:02 +0200
From: "Stephane Vuilleumier" <vuilleumier@micro.biol.ethz.ch>
Subject: Re: Avant magazine
may I formulate some objections on Avant Magazine
related to Wire...
It has more to do with Jazz than the current Wire, no question.
But the graphics and layout of Avant magazine make it
a very difficult read (or you can't photocopy them).
Some articles are great (the one on Morton Feldman springs to mind),
but others really read like a local newspaper blurb for
a fast-food store that just has opened.
The CDs are great and often contain unreleased stuff
(eg. Parker/Casserley), but the music often almost treads
on the trad side. The concept is to showcase one label per CD,
so you often end up with a clear picture of what label
carries mostly stuff you should NEVER buy...
BTW, is the issue 6 out yet? this is meant to be a monthly,
and number 5 came out ages ago...oh well, at least the subscription
was cheap.
Stephane
- -------------------------------------------------------------------
Stephane Vuilleumier
Mikrobiologisches Institut
ETH-Zurich Tel: (+41) 1 632 33 57
ETH-Zentrum/LFV Fax: (+41) 1 632 11 48
8092 Zurich email: svuilleu@micro.biol.ethz.ch
Switzerland http://www.micro.biol.ethz.ch/~svuilleu
- -------------------------------------------------------------------
- -----Original Message-----
From: Joseph S. Zitt <jzitt@humansystems.com>
To: Lang Thompson <wlt4@mindspring.com>
Cc: zorn-list@lists.xmission.com <zorn-list@lists.xmission.com>
Date: Mittwoch, 6. Mai 1998 17:35
Subject: Re: Avant magazine
>On Wed, 6 May 1998, Lang Thompson wrote:
>
>> The new issue of Cadence lists a few issues of a magazine called Avant.
Is
>> it worth getting and do the cassettes with it have any unreleased music?
>
>If it's the same magazine that I picked up a copy of recently, It's
>wonderful -- makes The Wire looks like Teen Beat.... Wow, looking at the
>Cadence listing for Avant issue 5, it looks like it's the one. I'm
>ordering ASAP. Thanks for the pointer!
>
>- ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
>|||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \|||
>||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \||
>|/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \|
>
>
>-
>
>
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 13:31:23 +0100
From: Dan Given <dlgiven@julian.uwo.ca>
Subject: re: Have you heard...?
Brian Olewnick asked if anyone had heard:
> Braxton/Newton (Lauren) Composition 192 Leo
One of the Ghost Trance compositions. Braxton is playing repetitive
motifs, on his usual large arsenal of reeds, Newton is singing letters and
numbers. I guess if you are interested in hearing this for 62 minutes,
pick it up. It is... interesting? different?..., I don't think I will
listen to it often. Not wholly unenjoyable, but low on my list of fave
Braxton's (as you know, Brian, that is a long list!)
Dan
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 20:11:15 +0200
From: "Artur Nowak" <arno@silesia.top.pl>
Subject: Kang's theater of mineral NADES
Can anybody share some feelings about Eyvind Kang's recent release?
I'm pretty confused about this music, some pieces are Zorn-filmworks-like
(good), some medieval (hmmm...), some done with reagge-dubs and vocals (grrrrr),
some are very oriental (yes!); it seems to be too eclectic to me. Kang is
supposed to be very promissing musician and composer - at least the Tzadik
propagandist professes so.
BTW: who is the guy, who writes the comments for Tzadik releases spine wrappers?
Artur
____________________________________________________________________
Artur Nowak
www.silesia.top.pl/~arno/emd/pl40/artists/f/frisell_bill/default.htm
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 21:30:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: William York <wyork@email.unc.edu>
Subject: Zappa/Watson
As for ben Watson, while his writing is interesting and entertaining, I
don't put a lot of stock in his reviews because he can't get through more
than a few without citing Adorno or whatever. Some of his reviews in the
Wire are pretty absurd. Oh, but I definately wouldn't say he
underestimated the influence of Varese on FZ's music. It seems like he
mentioned it on every other page.
Re: Zappa, I would think that if he had never recorded with Boulez or the
LSO his overall career would not be at much of a loss. The whole idea of
being 'legitimate' or that classical music is by definition superior to
other forms really gets in the way, even with high culture/low culture
types like Zorn or Zappa. While I like some of the things they've done in
classical settings, I think it's often more interesting and enjoyable to
hear them working with out ideas in more popular formats. I think playing
"The Black Page" during a dance contest in front of a big rock crowd is a
bigger achievement than working with Boulez, and I would put almost any
Mothers album against any of his classical work. But that's just my
perspective of course.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 07:35:34 +0100
From: ScottRussell <ScottRussell@scottishmedia.com>
Subject: RE: Avant magazine
- --MimeMultipartBoundary
Content-Type: text/plain
> On Wed, 6 May 1998, Lang Thompson wrote:
>
> > The new issue of Cadence lists a few issues of a magazine called
> Avant. Is
> > it worth getting and do the cassettes with it have any unreleased
> music?
>
> If it's the same magazine that I picked up a copy of recently, It's
> wonderful -- makes The Wire looks like Teen Beat.... Wow, looking at
> the
> Cadence listing for Avant issue 5, it looks like it's the one. I'm
> ordering ASAP. Thanks for the pointer!
>
I really feel I have to take issue with Joseph on this point. Avant (and
I'm assuming we're talking about the UK publication) is a worthy enough
magazine but it is seriously marred in two ways. Firstly it has the
WORST layouts I have ever seen in a magazine (and I speak as a former
print/design house professional). It is amateurishly laid out with too
much fussiness over effects and esoteric typefaces. This is worsened by
an incomplete understanding of printing which means pages are often
difficult to read because of too much or too little ink coverage,
inappropriate choice of inks or simpy layouts which are too busy.
The second problem is the quality of the writing. The standard of many
articles in Avant is that of the enthusiastically amateurish.
Gramatically and syntactically many pieces simply do not read well at
all. I certainly disagree with your asessment that Avant makes The Wire
look like 'Teen Beat'. Whatever you may think of The Wire (it is
certainly esoteric, many of it's writers are deliberatley obtuse and
have their own agendas and it can run to 'pretentious') it is a mature
publication with writers who are capable of expressing arguments
(however outlandish) in a logical and cohesive manner (most of the
time!). It also has some of the best magazine design you could wish to
see, stylish but always legible which, lets face it is the point of a
magazine.
I don't mean to dismiss Avant entirely, I'm glad to see another
publication try and address the outer fringes of music and I hope to
watch it develop into something really interesting, but it has a very
long way to go. Remember The Wire has been running for the best part of
twenty years!
My advice to others is seek out Avant by all means but don't mistake
it's earnestness for sophistication.
Scott Russell
- --MimeMultipartBoundary--
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 10:39:54 +0200 (MSZ)
From: BJOERN <bjoern.eichstaedt@student.uni-tuebingen.de>
Subject: american musicians wanted again
sorry,
of course i was talkin bout october 98 to may 99...not 97 to 98
BJOERN
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 08:20:45 -0500
From: Rusty Crump <dmcrump@sunset.backbone.olemiss.edu>
Subject: Re: Zappa/Watson
>As for ben Watson, while his writing is interesting and entertaining, I
>don't put a lot of stock in his reviews because he can't get through more
>than a few without citing Adorno or whatever. Some of his reviews in the
>Wire are pretty absurd. Oh, but I definately wouldn't say he
>underestimated the influence of Varese on FZ's music. It seems like he
>mentioned it on every other page.
>
>Re: Zappa, I would think that if he had never recorded with Boulez or the
>LSO his overall career would not be at much of a loss. The whole idea of
>being 'legitimate' or that classical music is by definition superior to
>other forms really gets in the way, even with high culture/low culture
>types like Zorn or Zappa. While I like some of the things they've done in
>classical settings, I think it's often more interesting and enjoyable to
>hear them working with out ideas in more popular formats. I think playing
>"The Black Page" during a dance contest in front of a big rock crowd is a
>bigger achievement than working with Boulez, and I would put almost any
>Mothers album against any of his classical work. But that's just my
>perspective of course.
>
>
>-
I agree with you, but with one addition. I have a hunch that if the Boulez
and LSO albums hadn't happened, "The Yellow Shark" would never have
occurred to the Ensemble Modern, and that would be a major loss to the FZ
canon. I have this image of someone in the Ensemble listening to one of the
LSO albums and saying, "This is scheisse. Wouldn't this be valuable if it
were done RIGHT!?"
Which brings up a question to the Zornoscenti on the list -- are there any
Zorn albums with which JZ was as unhappy about the playing as FZ was with
the LSO? It seems to me that JZ's had a lot more luck (or control) in that
department than FZ did.
But then there are transcendent moments like Uncle Meat, the Yellow Shark,
and the 1974 Helsinki concert. Wow!
Rusty Crump
Oxford, Mississippi
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 08:52:17 -0800
From: George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com>
Subject: Re: Music & Jargon
Chris Hamilton writes:
> I started to write a lengthy, point-by-point criticism of George's
> criticisms of the Watson quote, but I decided it would be petty. Two main
> points worth briefly mentioning were: (1) The quote is an excerpt from a
> vastly larger work, and shouldn't be taken as a complete critical
> discussion of Zappa's work. (2) The quote compares Zappa negatively to
> Darmstadt composers specifically; George's eloquent defense of the breadth
> of contemporary European art music is thus misdirected, and in fact serves
> to support Watson's final point. What really set me off was the
> following:
>
> On Mon, 4 May 1998, George Grella wrote regarding a lengthy Ben Watson
> quote:
>
> > His class-based comments are incoherent. The symphony orchestra is the
> > traditional vehicle of expression for symphonic composers, not for an
> > economic/social class. I can imagine the number of composers who would
> > have been amazed had they found themselves classed as bourgeois. But
> > Watson can't seem to admit that music was created out of the desires and
> > ideas of the composers, not out of bourgeois demands.
>
> You objected to bringing ideology into discussions of music, but the
> romantic individualism you defend in the above is as much
> an ideology as Watson's Marxism. Similarly you seem perfectly happy to
> use jargon in your criticisms of Watson, but you nail him for using
> different jargon. It comes off (to me at least) as if you're trying to
> smuggle in your own ideology without actually arguing for it. I doubt
> this is your intention, but you might want to be more careful about making
> presuppositions of your own when chastising others for theirs.
>
> (I might add I think ideological lenses can sometimes shed light on
> music, so long as one isn't blinded to other perspectives by them.)
>
> Chris Hamilton
> Sensitive Former Marxist
>
> P.S. Where might I look in Varese's and Stravinsky's works for absurdity?
> I know some work by each, but just the big famous stuff, and I don't hear
> it there.
>
Chris, I understand that the quote from Ben Watson was an excerpt; I
can't, and wouldn't want to begin, comment on the entire
subject/article, what concerned me in the quote itself was the type of
jargon that not only obfuscates the issue - music - but makes no sense
in its own right. It passes too frequently for criticism, IMO. In that
respect I can only work with the context it provides me, i.e. Zappa vs
Darmstadt; if there was a discussion of the greater breadth of music in
the quote provided, obviously my reponse would have been different.
I have to completely disagree with your last full paragraph, though. I
don't see how, in any way, the notion that composers create music out of
their own needs, interests and desires as autonomous human beings is
ideology. It's reality, fact! I'm speaking as a composer, firmly in
the contemporary context of the western tradition, but I am confident
that I can speak in general for composers from the initial beginnings of
the symphony orchestra in the Baroque to the present day. Again,
composers who write for the orchestra write the pieces they write, the
bourgeoisie as a class is not writing squat for the orchestra. This is
so obvious to me I'm baffled I have to point it out; it is the
individual doing the work, not the class system.
There's some implied aspects to this that I think are mistaken. One is
the common misconception that composers are compelled, either directly
or implicitly, to write music that the bourgeois patrons of the
orchestra want to here. This is not, nor never has been, the truth,
except perhaps for the most crave, forgettable composers. The entire
history of orchestral music is full of instances where pieces have been
misunderstood and/or rejected by their contemporary audiences. This is
hard to understand from our perspective, because most of that music is
so common to our listening experience, has had so much time to permeate
itself among listeners and other composers. Also, the experimental
nature of much of the music of the past is now part of a history of
"archaic" techniques. In it's day, the work of C.P.E. Bach was highly
experimental, Haydn [even while supported by the Emporer] was doing
deeply innovative and new things with the developing forms, Mozart was
commonly rejected and lay fallow for most of the 19th century, and
Beethoven was considered a shocking avant-gardist. When Schumann's 2nd
Symphony premiered, no one had ever heard polyphony in that context
before, and the Berlioz "Symphony Fantastique" was beyond comprehension
to it's first audiences. I could go on and on, listing works through
Bruckner, Mahler, Debussy, Stravinsky, Vaughn Williams [the 4th],
Sibelius, Ives [who was an insurance executive, no less!] al the way to
works by Scelsci, Kancheli, Zimmerman, Dutilleux and Vivier I have heard
performed in the past 12 months. The symphony orchestra, especially in
its current state in American cities, is supported by mainly bourgeois
dollars, that is indisputable. But composers who write music for it are
writing their own music, regardless of what the bourgeoisie, desires. I
cannot see how this, when all the jargon is set aside, can be
questioned. To do so, one would have to begin by defining/describing
the contemporary music the bourgeoisie wants to hear their orchestra
plays [as if they are even aware of contemporary music] and then prove
that composers are writing that music!
And regards your P.S., I first want to say I didn't mean to imply
absurdity in Varese, because I've never heard a sense of humor in his
work, but for Stravinsky, you can start with the "Grand March" of
"L'Histoire du Soldat," and look for the snippet of "Anchors Aweigh" in
"Concerto for Piano and Wind Instruments." Of course, he's not the
first, there's a whole history of jokes and absurdity in music, with
some of the most famous examples being the Haydn "Farewell Symphony,"
Mozart's "Musical Joke," the entire third movement of the Mahler 1st
Symphony and a great deal of the work of Charles Ives.
gg
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V2 #357
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