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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #1017
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Thursday, July 27 2000 Volume 02 : Number 1017
In this issue:
-
saint german
Massacre
Judge Shuts Down Napster
BET on Jazz schedule
Re: Judge Shuts Down Napster
Re:Panthalassa
Re: ?Improv?
Re: Rebirth Of Post-cool
Re: saint german
Caine Promo for Trade
Re:Panthalassa
Re: Lombardo/Frith/Laswell/Zorn review
Re: Panthalassa
Re: Lombardo/Frith/Laswell/Zorn review
on my travels
re:Panthalassa
Dave Douglas' interview
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 14:38:44 +0100 (WET DST)
From: Ricardo Reis <l43384@alfa.ist.utl.pt>
Subject: saint german
Hi zorn fellaws! for the one's who liked saint-germain i would
advise to listen also to:
Orchester 33 1/3 (info on http://plagdichnicht.sil.at/eorch.php3 )
and
ki-oku, DJ Krush and Toshinori Kondo (tanabe music publishing)
sorry for the non-zorn related...
Ricardo Reis
"NON SERVIAM"
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 11:30:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ryan Novak <ryan_novak@yahoo.com>
Subject: Massacre
>Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 18:22:14 +0200>
>From: "Marcin Gokieli" <marcingokieli@go2.pl>
>Subject: Odp: Lombardo/Frith/Laswell/Zorn review
>Definitely
>oneof the best live
>shows i've seen. Frith made me almost cry: his
>vision,
>quickness, melodism
>were incredible. He's realy a great master and maybe
>the greatest improviser
>now (as Miles is gone).
>The whole thing was filmed, and broadcasted on FM, so
>it should be
>relatively easy to find some tape of it (as soon as
>it
>is broadcasted on TV,
>i'll let you know).
Hi,
Well, you certainly got me interested. Please do keep
us posted.
- ---Ryan Novak
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
http://mail.yahoo.com/
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 20:42:14 -0400
From: "Ljova" <L@Ljova.com>
Subject: Judge Shuts Down Napster
A moment of silence, please.
http://www.inside.com/story/Story_Cached/0,2770,7292_9,00.html
Fortunately, my music is still free. :)
Best,
Ljova
- --------
Lev "Ljova" Zhurbin
L@Ljova.com
http://mp3.com/Ljova/
"Do not fear mistakes - there are none."
-Miles Davis
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 21:45:30 -0400
From: Lang Thompson <wlt4@mindspring.com>
Subject: BET on Jazz schedule
My upgraded cable system now carries the BET on Jazz channel. It shows a
Live at the Knitting Factory show; tonight's had Elliot Sharp. Does
anybody know where there's a schedule for this show or the entire channel?
The BET website is a horrible corporate one that promotes "special events"
but then doesn't tell you when they're playing.
LT
- -------------------------------------------
Adventures In Sound
http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures.htm
Full Alert Film Review
http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/fafr.htm
Funhouse
http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/funhouse.htm
"Where Do You Want to Go Today"
Somewhere you can never take me!
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 21:10:25 -0400
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>
Subject: Re: Judge Shuts Down Napster
On Wed, Jul 26, 2000 at 08:42:14PM -0400, Ljova wrote:
> A moment of silence, please.
>
> http://www.inside.com/story/Story_Cached/0,2770,7292_9,00.html
>
>
> Fortunately, my music is still free. :)
And tomorrow's headline will be that the industry realizes that Gnutella
had already made the Napster company irrelevant and obsolete except,
perhaps, as a poster child.
- --
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |
- -
------------------------------
Date: 27 Jul 2000 05:42:56 -0000
From: "Tim Keenliside" <timkeen@disinfo.net>
Subject: Re:Panthalassa
On Wed, 26 Jul 2000 08:00:00 -0400 "Neil H. Enet"
<nilugo@usa.net> wrote:
>Hello to all,
>
> I purchased Miles Davis/Bill LAswell's Panthalassa a
long time ago, but I'm
>not too sure what is that Bill Laswell actually did with
Miles work. I
>guess my question is what's that "reconstruction" all
about?
>
>Thanks
>
>Neil H. Enet
>------------
>Sorry, but I just don't get this aspect of Laswell's
"work", what is the point after all of revisiting and
stripping down something that was perfect(i.e. 'In A
Silent Way') to begin with? His remix/reconstruction works
sound like ambient versions of those awful 'Stars On 45'
dance medley records from the '80s! There is nothing to be
gained from this exercise, one is better off listening to
the original works, and in Laswell's case I feel he would
be much better off devoting his seemingly inexhaustible
energies to original work...remember, this is just an
opinion, but if this trend continues I suspect that at
some point in the (near?)future, listeners will only be
able to listen to remixed, remastered, rerecorded
'versi
_____________________________________________________________
Email your boss can't read - sign up for free disinfo.net email
at http://www.disinfo.com, your gateway to the underground
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 11:27:03 CEST
From: "Andreas Dietz" <andreasdietz@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: ?Improv?
>In other words the music will organically find its own name. >>
>
>but someone has to create that name, be it a musician or a writer or a
>label
>owner. I don't think the term dangerous improv is perfect either, which is
>why I'm asking for opinions/suggestions.
>
>my favorite suggestion so far (via private e-mail) is Pokemon improv
>(because
>you have to collect them all.)
a bit late, but I was on the road for some days. My two cents: no parachute
improv (to keep Zorn-content high). Sometimes the parachute malfunctions if
present.
Andreas
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 11:36:37 CEST
From: "Andreas Dietz" <andreasdietz@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Rebirth Of Post-cool
>I don't know too much about Wolleson. All I've heard him playing on is
>this, Bar Kokhba and the Live in NY/Germany 1994 CD. Can anyone toss out
>some more recommendations? What about that Dim Sum Slip Job album?
I can recommend 'The Sun Died' with Ellery Eskelin, Marc Ribot and Wollesen.
They are doing some Soul Jazz (Gene Ammons etc.) on the highest level. Most
recently Wollesen is performing with Steven Bernstein┤s Sex Mob.
Andreas
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 12:00:28 +0200 (MET DST)
From: stephen.fruitman@idehist.umu.se (Stephen Fruitman)
Subject: Re: saint german
> ki-oku, DJ Krush and Toshinori Kondo (tanabe music publishing)
That=B4s a lovely, underestimated record. Stephen
- -------------------------------------
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Lena Berggren, PhD
Department of Historical Studies
University of Umea
SE-901 87 Umea
SWEDEN
Lena.Berggren@histstud.umu.se
Phone +46 (0)90 786 96 19
Mobile +46 (0)70 539 81 40
=46ax +46 (0)90 14 33 74
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 12:01:11 +0200 (MET DST)
From: stephen.fruitman@idehist.umu.se (Stephen Fruitman)
Subject: Caine Promo for Trade
I have a copy of a promotional CD sent out to reviewers along with Uri
Caine=B4s _Goldberg Variations_ that I would like to offer for trade. It is
roughly an hour long and features an in-depth interview with Caine about
his project, interspersed with cuts from the album. If interested, get in
touch with me privately at <stephen.fruitman@idehist.umu.se>
All the best, Stephen
- -----------------------------------------------------
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Lena Berggren, PhD
Department of Historical Studies
University of Umea
SE-901 87 Umea
SWEDEN
Lena.Berggren@histstud.umu.se
Phone +46 (0)90 786 96 19
Mobile +46 (0)70 539 81 40
=46ax +46 (0)90 14 33 74
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 07:28:32 -0400
From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <cdeupree@erinet.com>
Subject: Re:Panthalassa
At 05:42 AM 7/27/00 -0000, Tim Keenliside wrote:
>
>Sorry, but I just don't get this aspect of Laswell's
>"work", what is the point after all of revisiting and
>stripping down something that was perfect(i.e. 'In A
>Silent Way') to begin with?
One of the points for Panthalassa (not so much for the other remix
projects) is that there is no original, that Miles' output during that
period was already a reconstruction by Teo Macero from extensive jam tapes
recorded in the studio, and therefore that Laswell's reconstruction from
the original masters was as valid as Macero's which was released under
Miles' name.
- --
Caleb Deupree
cdeupree@erinet.com
Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance
like nobody's watching.
- -- Satchel Paige
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 15:21:12 +0200
From: "in.out" <in.out@wanadoo.fr>
Subject: Re: Lombardo/Frith/Laswell/Zorn review
hello philozorner,
I am very surprised by all the good reactions around
Zorn/Laswell/Frith/Lombardo show in Paris=2E The sound was good but for me i=
t
was a very bad performance :an hour an ten minutes long of five long pieces
and one real encore (the second one was a weak bonus track)=2E Yes the sound
was ok, a little bit loud but clear=2E Zorn played as usual in this type of
band ; Fast, free, powerful but, with no real inspiration=2E Frith start ver=
y
quiet, not very present, adding, from time to time, colours to the music=2E
Cases of Laswell and Lombardo are difficult=2E Laswell subaquatic bass sound
was not the kind of effect to play with in this kind of circumstances,
covering the other instruments=2E Lombardo is for sure a good drummer=2E Thi=
s
night he was to heavy for the music to play=2E Of course on the two first
track he played right but from the brillant duet between Zorn & Frith he
needed to play lighter and with some nuances, unfortunatly he hammered from
the beginnig to the end=2E
By the end of the show they all understood that they need to play different
and went into the "painkiller dub style"=2E But Blade runner was not
painkiller : Laswell failed, Lombardo is not Mick harris=2E
A dub"A love supreme" for the encore is not enough to save the show=2E
French press, Le Monde highlight that the show was "the success" of this
year La villette edition but concluded that the show was a mess )=2E=2E=2ESo=
me
Parisians I met the days after talk about zorn Paris shows as a
"malediction" (remember Houdini/Painkiller show at Banlieu bleu)=2E
Laswell need to come in France with Massacre soon=2E Frith did his best and
Zorn not playing like past performances with a power band like this=2ELombar=
do
prooved me the day after that Fantomas was exactly his kind of band !
For thoses who wants the proof of what I say, this show is avalaible to
trade=2E=2E=2EE-mail me privatly please=2E
michael Carsenti
mp: Funkadelic "Maggot Brain"
- -------------------------------------------
In-Out Cd Store
15 avenue N=F4tre Dame
06000 Nice
Tel/Fax : +33 (0)4 93 80 54 54
e-mail : in=2Eout@wanadoo=2Efr
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 11:14:46 -0400
From: "Neil H. Enet" <nilugo@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Panthalassa
Personally, I like the album very much. I don't know if it was a good
starting point, but it was my first Miles CD!!!! I was just starting to get
into Jazz and I've heard of Miles (of curse) and of Bill Laswell and his
experimentations, so I decided to give it a try when I saw it in the record
shop. I liked it very much, almost instantly, but I didn't know what those
reconstructions meant, so I was scared that it didn't represent Miles work.
But now that I know Miles a little bit more, I think it was a good starting
place, it really showed me a little bit of what Miles is all about.
I understand it includes never before heard music from those sessions, so I
don't see why the regular Miles fan doesn't approve it, in spite of the
reconstruction thing.
Well, that's just my opinion on Panthalassa. :-)
Neil H. Enet
- ------------
NP. DAVID SLUSSER: delight at the end of the tunnel
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 16:19:47 GMT
From: "Kristy Shugg" <kshugg@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Lombardo/Frith/Laswell/Zorn review
Michael said -
>Lombardo is for sure a good drummer. This night he was to heavy for >the
>music to play. Of course on the two first track he played right >but from
>the brillant duet between Zorn & Frith heneeded to play >lighter and with
>some nuances, unfortunatly he hammered from
>the beginnig to the end.
My experience of this show was that the drumming was fairly intense for a
lot of the time, and that whenever it started to drop in intensity and
Lombardo fell into something quieter and more intricate, zorn was at his
side urging him to beef it up again.
It seemed to me that Lombardo was being directed by Zorn for a lot of the
show, and just about killing himself to give a bigger and bigger sound and
maintain the intensity. I guess it comes down to personal preference
whether that 'hammering' was good to listen to, and I'm not sure what
lombardo's own preference is but hats off to him for responsiveness and for
what I saw as extreme attentiveness to the other performers.
For me, the Paris show was the best thing I've been to for a long time -
good, clear sound, great venue, attentive audience, players obviously
enjoying themselves and playing well. as someone who until recently lived
in australia, where i'm not sure if these guys have _ever_ played, it was an
eye opener.
- - Kristy
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 20:01:58 +0100
From: "Alastair Wilson" <wilsonah@hotmail.com>
Subject: on my travels
Apologies for doing this, but I know there's some Belgian residents on the
list:
I plan to be in Belgium for a few days in the period Aug 14 - 27. Are there
any interesting gigs I should plan my visit around?
Please e-mail me privately.
Thanks
Alastair
"If noise means uncomfortable sound, then pop music is noise to me."
Masami Akita
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 20:04:32 -0400
From: Taylor McLaren <paste@interlog.com>
Subject: re:Panthalassa
MEEP! "Tim Keenliside" <timkeen@disinfo.net> wrote:
>...but if this trend continues I suspect that at
>some point in the (near?)future, listeners will only be
>able to listen to remixed, remastered, rerecorded
>'versi
Recognizing that the above was just an opinion and not a doom-saying
exercise, I have to wonder if this is necessarily a bad idea. I mean,
record fairs and used music stores are *always* going to exist, so it's not
as though it's going to be completely impossible to seek out the original
version(s) of the works being revisited by mix translators like Laswell
(are there any others, Mobile Fidelity and Co. aside?). I don't really see
anything to distinguish between the preserve-and-optimize intentions
behind, say, _Panthalassa_ and the Automator's _Bombay the Hard Way_ other
than the extent to which the producers' tweaking stands out to the
untrained or unfamiliar ear.
I'm not trying to argue that Laswell's attempts at improving upon
pre-existing recordings have been terribly successful, but as an attempt at
expanding the language of sampling laterally (massaging the structure of an
existing piece of music to bring out different nuances or meanings, rather
than lifting elements to carry their meanings into other contexts), I think
it's a neat idea.
- -me
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 21:42:50 -0300
From: "Hugo Linares" <hlinares@utenet.com.ar>
Subject: Dave Douglas' interview
Hello Zornheads!
Dave Douglas and Misha Mengelberg will play tomorrow in Buenos Aires (party
time!); I had the opportunity to ask Dave some questions (thanks again,
Maestro Steve!) and I'd like to share his answers with the List.
I hope you enjoy it.
Hugo.
>QUESTIONS TO MR. DAVE DOUGLAS:
>
>1) Regarding the upcoming duo show in Buenos Aires, is this the first time
>you play with Mr. Misha Mengelberg? What about the repertoire you are going
>to play? Are you planning to do a duo record?
Hello Hugo Linares,
Happy to hear from you and that you are interested in my visit to Argentina
with Misha Mengelberg (my daughter, Mia, is also coming for some
sight-seeing...).
I have played with Misha in several different situations, including
inviting him to play with my own quartet. I most enjoy playing his music as
he is one of the greatest and most overlooked composers of the 20th
century. We are planning to make a record together in quartet with Brad
Jones and Han Bennink. In Buenos Aires we will make a special, first time
approach to playing in duo.
>
>2) Due to your wide range of musical interests, have you ever listened to
>Argentinian composer and bandoneon player Astor Piazzolla or any
>other Argentinian composer? Any opinions?
Of course I am a big big fan of Astor Piazzola (and also Pablo Ziegler). I
have been asked if I would play any of his music, and on reflection I feel
that it is so perfect that I wouldn't know how to touch it. Perhaps I need
to learn it better first, but I would be happy to be invited to learn and
play his music.
>
>3) Who did you have as models for musicans? Other trumpet players you
>admire?
My musical models are mostly composers/visionaries who have devised their
own world of music-making, not necessarily trumpet players. Miles Davis,
Igor Stravinsky, Stevie Wonder, John Coltrane, John Cage, Joao Gilberto,
Mary Lou Williams. This list is at best partial.
Trumpet players: Miles Davis, Woody Shaw, Don Cherry, Roy Eldridge, Baikida
Carroll, Roy Campbell, Cuong Vu, Herb Robertson, Graham Haynes, Butch
Morris, and so many more. I love them all and am interested in the full
breadth of trumpet music for this new century.
>
>4) Regarding your collaboration with Cibo Matto band; are you planning to
>record again with that band?
Just last month I was in the studio again with Yuka Honda, the brilliant
composer/sampler player from Cibo Matto. Another deeply inspiring
experience.
>
>5) Sometime ago you referred to John Zorn "as a very inspirational person"
>[there I go again];
>how would you concern about the other members of Masada?
Masada is like a family for me, as I feel close to each member and our
reunions are like catching up with where each of us has been. It's one of
the groups in which I feel the most direct communication between the
players on stage. I also feel lucky to get to play with Joey Baron in my
Sextet and Greg Cohen in Charms of the Night Sky.
>
>6) How would you refer to drummer Jim Black and guitarrist Brad
>Schoepach? [Shepik, he changed it]
Also like family, as the Tiny Bell Trio goes back to 1991, has made four
records, and is still continuing to play together. We have a dynamic which
I feel is completely unique, very quick reactions to each other and a very
intuitive sense of how to hold this difficult music together.
>
>7) A couple years back you talk about the possibility of doing a duo record
>with brilliant pianist Myra Melford; what about that?
Hugo, if you have a record label we could do it tomorrow :-)
But seriously, both of us have been so busy with other projects in the last
few years. I'm sure it is something that will eventually happen.
>
>8) Have you received any critics in USA or in the American alternative
>circuit having just signed to major label RCA Victor? In case you had; did
>you mind about those critics?
Criticism is healthy, it's how we grow. However, I work so hard on music
that there is no place for a lot of the gossipy business talk that passes
for criticism. Each project I do is different and illuminates a different
aspect of how I would like to hear music. Because of that it is very common
for certain people to like one project and not the others. That is
inevitable, but also something that I am working very hard against. As I
erase my own boundaries and limits, I am also hoping that many listeners
will be able to understand and follow that process as well.
Some good criticism has come from hard core new music fans (many of whom
followed me from the beginning) who always want the newest, most
"experimental", "non-idiomatic" (as if such a thing could exist!), radical
musical visions. Perhaps there is disappointment that not everything I do
falls into that territory. I enjoy very much listening to and playing music
in this continuum, but that is not always where the music takes me. A trap
I have also caught myself in -- that "moderness" in itself is an artistic
goal. I am still interested in links to history, in making references,
drawing connections, having a multiplicity of ways of expressing myself.
I think it is interesting that we see these references in so many areas of
new music right now. Having thrown out the bath water, we are still left
with the baby, and a lot of musicians are trying to figure out what to do
with that. Still, it's good to be reminded that while most of my criticism
has come from the mainstream establishment in the U.S. (despite the
critics' awards, most of the mainstream booking establishment does not take
this music seriously, with a few notable exceptions), there is a strong and
impassioned following for adventurous music.
>
>9) Miles Davis said sometime he felt better in front of European audiences
>than American ones; have you got a similar feeling regarding your constant
>tours in those different locations?
It is interesting to me that audiences around the world are so different.
Even within the U.S. the feeling differs from one city to another. I
certainly have some favorite places to play: Florence, Italy; Ann Arbor,
Michigan; Ghent, Belgium; Village Vanguard, NYC. As usual, I live for the
differences, I get bored any other way. We musicians are very affected by
the aura of the audience, I think many people are unaware of this. I am
looking forward to experiencing the audience in Buenos Aires and Cordoba.
Hope to meet you there.
Best wishes,
Dave Douglas
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V2 #1017
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