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Zorn List Digest        Friday, July 14 2000        Volume 02 : Number 1003



In this issue:
-
       Re: new dream syndicate cd
       re: Review: Dave Douglas' Witness, Tonic, 7/13/00 (long)
       Re: new dream syndicate cd
       live electronics redux (was: Dave Douglas' Witness)
       Terry Riley
       e-mail oddities
       Re: e-mail oddities
       Re: e-mail oddities
       Re: live electronics redux (was: Dave Douglas' Witness)
       Re: new dream syndicate cd
       Stockhausen, Reich, Eno
       Odp:  Dave Douglas' Witness, Tonic, 7/13/00 (long)
       classical zorn (was Odp: aeco-->jz(content provided))
       Re: Steve Reich
       Re: Steve Reich
       18 hrs of jzz

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:28:00 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: new dream syndicate cd

On Fri, 14 Jul 2000 11:29:49 -0400  Joseph Zitt wrote:
>
> One thing I've noticed, though I haven't done an exact count: it
> strikes me that every person who has championed Young's point of
> view and narrative of the music's history has identified himself as
> either a close friend of his or has worked directly with him (at
> the Dream House or elsewhere). Those who believe that other narratives
> might be valid seem to come from a wider circle. Is this an accurate
> perception? Why is this so?

It is almost obcene to ask such question :-).

I have also the same feeling (similar to what you see in a religion).

    Patrice.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 13:37:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: James Graves <[e-mail]>
Subject: re: Review: Dave Douglas' Witness, Tonic, 7/13/00 (long)

Any news on an album release for this group? I loved the original Mahfouz,
and have been eagerly awaiting more electronic stuff from Dave. I have a
feeling that this group is not going to play outside of NYC, what with the
high number of members and low ticket sales. Oh well,

Oh, and thanks to y'all for the Reich recommendations, he's at the top of
my wish list right now.

>The All Night Flight is by Terry Riley. As for Reich,
>try Music for 18 Musicans.

Whoops...

Jamie


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 12:39:27 -0400
From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: new dream syndicate cd

BTW, I should point out that my message might have appeared to
be more in context on the MELA Foundation list, on which a similar
but much more verbose and active discussion is raging. It was
only after I sent the message that I realized that it was part of
the Zorn-list discussion, not that one. D'oh. But still relevant :-)

On Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 10:28:00AM -0700, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:
>
> On Fri, 14 Jul 2000 11:29:49 -0400  Joseph Zitt wrote:
> >
> > One thing I've noticed, though I haven't done an exact count: it
> > strikes me that every person who has championed Young's point of
> > view and narrative of the music's history has identified himself as
> > either a close friend of his or has worked directly with him (at
> > the Dream House or elsewhere). Those who believe that other narratives
> > might be valid seem to come from a wider circle. Is this an accurate
> > perception? Why is this so?
>
> It is almost obcene to ask such question :-).
>
> I have also the same feeling (similar to what you see in a religion).
>
>     Patrice.
>
> -

- --
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| [e-mail]           http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Jerusaklyn                  http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music    Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 13:38:02 CDT
From: "Kristopher S. Handley" <[e-mail]>
Subject: live electronics redux (was: Dave Douglas' Witness)

Steve Smith wrote:
>an evening of challenging listening.

Speaking truth _with_ power, indeed.  Though I hate you for tempting me with
another band I'll never hear.  ;>

Apropos: could any "acoustic" instrumentalists on the list who use live
electronics/ processing---or anyone who plays _with_ such musicians, knows
them, or just goes to shows---describe your set-up?  I'm curious what kind
(generically) of portable equipment and techniques come off well live, with
only the instrumentalist herself working the controls.  Some recorded/live
examples by famous people that come to mind are Kondo Toshinori
w/Brotzmann's Die Like a Dog Quartet; Joe McPhee solo (at least a couple
years ago); 99 Hooker; perhaps Miles Davis (though I always thought his
playing in that period sounded like relentless sludge); Barry Guy; and Hank
Roberts.  I can't think of any others, right off.  What do _ya'll_ use?

- ----s

________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 12:59:33 -0600
From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki  (S) " <[e-mail]>
Subject: Terry Riley



>Oh, and thanks to y'all for the Reich recommendations, he's at the top
>of my wish list right now.
>
>>The All Night Flight is by Terry Riley. As for Reich,
>>try Music for 18 Musicans.
>
>Whoops...
>
>Jamie

Riley also has some really good material (and a lot of mediocre stuff IMO).
There's a set of his music being released as individual CDs on organ of
corti.  "All Night Flight" is one of these (#4).  Another one worth checking
out is Dorian Reeds (Organ of Corti 2). I still haven't heard the most
recent organ of corti "Music for the Gift."
His epic has been aluded to in this Reich discussion but in case you missed
it that one's called "in C."  There are two full recordings that I've heard
(along with a psycadelic rock version from canada on organ of corti 2 - they
don't even play the pulse until about 3'00").  The original version - score
included in the liner notes - is on CBS.  There is also a 25th aniversary
recording on New Albion.  These might be of interest too.

Matt Wirzbicki

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 13:11:11 -0600
From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki  (S) " <[e-mail]>
Subject: e-mail oddities

Hey, I'm sorry to waste a little bit of space with a rather foolish question
but I hope I can be pardoned here because I've been confused about this for
a while.

What do these two things mean:

1)When a word appears as such: _word_  often connected without spacing to
other words as in: word1_word2_word3 ??
Do people intend to do this?

2) what does this mean: *word* ??
I see this one quite a bit.

I've done alright with the various AFAIK and IMHO type abreviations but I
can't seem to understand what's going on here.

Replying in private might be good unless you think other people are also
confused by this.

thanks
Matt Wirzbicki

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 15:23:42 -0400
From: "Jesse Kudler" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: e-mail oddities

> 1)When a word appears as such: _word_  often connected without spacing to
> other words as in: word1_word2_word3 ??
> Do people intend to do this?

Not sure about this one.

> 2) what does this mean: *word* ??
> I see this one quite a bit.

I use that for the equivalent of italics or emphasis.

And, as long as I'm here, may I ask a question?  What does "ODP" stand for?
I've figured out that it means "off-topic," but I can't come up with a
plausible phrase for it.

Thanks,
Jesse



- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 15:27:50 -0400
From: Dan Hewins <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: e-mail oddities

At 3:23 PM -0400 7/14/00, Jesse Kudler wrote:
>  > 1)When a word appears as such: _word_  often connected without spacing to
>>  other words as in: word1_word2_word3 ??
>>  Do people intend to do this?
>
>Not sure about this one.

I take _this_ to mean that the author intends for the word to be underlined.

Dan Hewins (who hates the "LOL" email acronym)

NP: Dirt Nap "Below the Speed of Sound" (awesome midwestern emo-core
band... don't you just love these sub-sub-genres?)

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 12:25:25 -0700
From: Reuben Radding <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: live electronics redux (was: Dave Douglas' Witness)

At 01:38 PM 7/14/00 -0500, Kristopher S. Handley wrote:

>Apropos: could any "acoustic" instrumentalists on the list who use live
>electronics/ processing---or anyone who plays _with_ such musicians, knows
>them, or just goes to shows---describe your set-up?  I'm curious what kind
>(generically) of portable equipment and techniques come off well live,
>with only the instrumentalist herself working the controls.  Some
>recorded/live examples by famous people that come to mind are Kondo
>Toshinori w/Brotzmann's Die Like a Dog Quartet; Joe McPhee solo (at least
>a couple years ago); 99 Hooker; perhaps Miles Davis (though I always
>thought his playing in that period sounded like relentless sludge); Barry
>Guy; and Hank Roberts.  I can't think of any others, right off.  What do
>_ya'll_ use?

I use as little as I can get away with. I'm primarily an acoustic bass
player, but I use electronics when it will serve the music, or if a leader
asks for it. Even in situations where my function is still "acoustic" I
often amplify using a "Realist" pickup and a small SWR amp. For larger
situations I use a bigger rig, but I try to avoid it. I sometimes use a
volume pedal in very loud situations so I can back off to acoustic volume
without having to use my hands on knobs and interrupt the music.

Using "stomp box" effects pedals designed for guitar can be a somewhat
unsatisfying experience with the upright bass because they are often
designed with higher frequencies in mind. Usually this (combined with the
relative lack of focused signal from the instrument) makes for a
less-dramatically "proccessed" sound. Also, many effects require different
ratios of mix (processed vs. the original signal) at different volumes,
since at low volumes there is still a lot of sound coming from the
instrument itself, competing with the sound coming from the amplification
system. So, in short, I find that using signal processing on the bass works
best at higher volumes.

The effect I've used the most often is a digital delay pedal (DOD) and
lately I've had some fun with an Alesis Microverb. The Microverb has a
control to amplify input as opposed to just output. This is a good thing. I
use it in line, rather than using the effect loop feature of my amp. I
usually can get better drive this way, though if I was using a multi-effect
rackmount style unit like the Alesis Quadraverb I might try the effect loop
for more cleanliness. The most effects I ever used on the upright was when
I toured with Marc Ribot's Shrek. Marc wanted me to imitate sounds from
techno records he was into at the time, and to be able to alternate between
standard acoustic sounds and electronic noise at the drop of a hat. So, my
setup for that tour was my bass into a Schertler pickup, into a MXR Blue
Box, which is a combonation distortion/compressor and octave divider
(sometimes I borrowed Marc's DOD Buzz Box which sounded more extreme), then
into my Boss Volume Pedal, and then into my Digital Delay. At out New York
gig I tried using a wah-wah pedal, but it was really tuned to higher
frequencies and it only sounded good if I was playing very high. More
hassle than it was worth.

The best use of effects I've heard someone use on an acoustic instrument
was probably Erik Friedlander. Last time I saw him he had a nice rackmount
system full of goodies and custom presets that sounded really great. I
believe he has some info up on his website about what he uses, so check it out.

- -Reuben Radding


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 15:32:48 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: new dream syndicate cd

The narratives are not that interesting , or at least not as interesting as
the drama of Van Halen or Creedence Clearwater Revival.

What's valid is the music, and it is sublime!

Steve

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 21:52:06 +0200
From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Stockhausen, Reich, Eno

I've listened to Stockhausen stuff only recently. What i heard
were some early electronic compositions (two wergo CDs). I do not have them,
but I must say that I rarely listened to some music that would be as close
to the way i hear sounds then this stuff . What i loved about it was the mix
of acoustic and electronic sounds - everything recored aoustically, and very
inspiring. The great care for every sounds that happens. While I can't give
any actual titles (although I;m sure that those were the pieces dicussed
here) I can only recommend him very strongly.
    As to Reich, I second all the support for 'music for 18 musicians'. I've
seen it performed live in Warsaw a few years ago by Steve Reich & Musicians
and was really impressed. they also played 'drumming', and it was also very
OK.  But IMO 'minimalist music' master is without doubt Brian Eno. Some of
his things is really incredible - the 'Shutov Assembly', for example. His
early pop albums are also great. Are there any other Eno fans here?
Marcin Gokieli
[e-mail]
Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you
are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor



- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 22:16:27 +0200
From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp:  Dave Douglas' Witness, Tonic, 7/13/00 (long)

Well, i guess that there might be loads of posts on this topic, but - Are
there going to be any recordings of that band in any near future?
Marcin Gokieli
[e-mail]
Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you
are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 20:37:50 +0200
From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: classical zorn (was Odp: aeco-->jz(content provided))

Matt Mitchell wrote:
> BTW, his classical pieces are far superior to his Masada pieces, which I
feel
> are a dime a dozen.

That's something I would like to learn more about.
I've got one Zorn 'classical' CD, the Angelus Novus. I like it quite a bit -
i'm not that enthousiast about the first, orchestral piece, but I like very
much the chamber stuff. I 've got some other stuff on different records(the
quartet on spillane, the tunes on 'music for children').
What are the other albums worth recommendation? Especially, what is aporias
like?

(BTW- ain't that silly to call that music - or Straivinskys, or Webern's
etc - classical ? They have nothing to do with anything classic at all.
Orchestral, yes, acoustic, OK, but classical?)

Marcin Gokieli
[e-mail]
Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you
are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor



- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 16:52:09 -0400
From: Nils <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Steve Reich

Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]> wrote:

> On Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 12:27:41PM -0400, Dan Hewins wrote:
> > A whole-heartedly agree with this recommendation.  Even though it
> > seems like "to remix" means to add in hip-hop or otherwise dance-ish
> > beats to whatever it is that's being remixed, the remixes of Reich's
> > pieces keep the spirit of Reich's music intact.  Some are better than
> > others, of course, but to an extent, they all are recognizably Reich.
>
> I'll have to disagree with this. Much of the heart of Reich's music is
> its rhythmic and metric subtleties, and putting plodding 4/4 beats
> under it is like taking a flowing painting and superimposing a
> graph paper grid on top, or taking a microtonal piece and forcing it
> into equal temperament. While what you get is mildly intersting, it
> utterly loses the point of the original.

Ummm, in my opinion the point of a remix is to change the sound of
the original material, in a meaningful and interesting way.  The
point of that Reich Remixed cd was precisely this.  There's a lot
more than beats overlaid here: effects, voices, etc.  In overview,
this disc has particularly special meaning because so much of
electronica owes a huge debt to Reich's music and his ideas.  For
example, compare Music for 18 Musicians to something like Autechre's
Tri Repetae... the structural basis for the sonic evolution within
each piece is very similar.  Repetition is used in a guarded sense,
with stepwise additions and modifications.  The blocks of repetition
that occur in a lot of 'intelligent' electronica (eg. Autechre,
Photek, Bisk) are very strongly reminiscent of the way Reich put
together much of his music.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 16:00:45 -0400
From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Steve Reich

On Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 04:52:09PM -0400, Nils wrote:

> Ummm, in my opinion the point of a remix is to change the sound of
> the original material, in a meaningful and interesting way.

Well, yes, but I found the changes neither interesting nor
particularly meaningful. While Reich may have influenced these artists,
what they do when using his music as source removes what was
interesting about the material.

- --
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| [e-mail]           http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Jerusaklyn                  http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music    Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 15:39:19 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: 18 hrs of jzz

i think there's some kinda rule about not posting things that are too long, but
mrizzi's away and this is interesting.

np: joe morris + mat maneri [soul search]

Ken Burns tackles history of jazz in 18-hour documentary series
By Ellen Gray
Knight Ridder Newspapers
(KRT)
PASADENA, Calif. - We watched "Baseball." We watched "The Civil War." But will
an America that's lately flipped for Regis Philbin's shiny ties and "Survivor's"
rat-eating castaways make it through 18 hours of "Jazz"?
Ken Burns thinks so.
"I've always wanted to reach a mass audience ... I see PBS as the biggest and
best classroom in the country," the documentary filmmaker told members of the
Television Critics Association.
"You remember that 'The Civil War' and 'Baseball' and some of the other long-
form shows are among the highest-rated," he said. ("The Civil War" was the top-
rated series in the history of American public television, drawing 40 million
viewers during its 1990 premiere, only to be outstripped by the 18-hour
"Baseball," which drew more than 45 million in 1994.)
"We're not looking for that in doing 'Jazz,"' he said of the project, which has
been in the works for six years and is scheduled to premiere on PBS in January.
"I'm still making a film that will satisfy - first me - with an eye toward
appealing to everyone, not just the jazz cognoscenti," he said.
"I mean, we want a little old lady in Dubuque tapping her toes to the music,"
Burns said. "And not just (Louis) Armstrong, but also some of the other, later,
more 'difficult' stars like Ornette Coleman, and we think we've made them
accessible."
As for the length, "that may be a bad thing ... or it may actually be a great
thing: Do you really think you can watch for 18 hours?" he said.
No, there's no $1 million prize for viewers who go the distance, but "we have
hour, two-hour episodes, just like everybody else. It'll be there when you want
it," thanks to an agreement by many PBS stations to air each episode two or
three times apiece, he said.
"Jazz" is the third part of a trilogy that Burns sees as exploring, among other
things, the American "fault line" of race.
"Let us make no mistake, jazz was invented by African-Americans, but it was
generously shared with the rest of the world," he said.
The making of "Jazz" proved to be as much of an education to its maker as the
previous two pieces.
"When I began this project, I had only three or four jazz CDs in my very
extensive collection," said Burns, who'll turn 47 July 29 and describes himself
as "a child of rock 'n' roll."
"I actually ran a record store when I was a teen-ager, knew of all these
players, but I was not a jazz fan, as I knew nothing about the military history
of the Civil War and nothing about the history of baseball (before he started
those projects). But in the course of this, I can't find the rest of my other
CDs, I listen to nothing but jazz of all stripes now, and it's taken over my
life. And the great delight has been to get to know these people very well and
to share with the broad audience," he said.
And if the broader audience develops an equal hunger for the music, Burns hopes
to be ready for them.
Besides a sampler CD that just skims the surface of the series - which includes
490 separate pieces - there will be a five-CD set. Currently in negotiations:
"best of" CDs representing 22 artists, including material they recorded on
different labels.
"What's happened in jazz now is that they're so fragmented across labels that
you can't get the 'best of' a particular artist," he said. "We have been forging
together alliances among record labels, and we believe - knock on wood - that by
the time we get out ... we hope and trust that our 22 individual 'best of' will
be the best of," he said.
So now that he's finished the project he's been talking about for several years,
what's next for Burns?
"I'd love to do Dr. King. And I'd also like to do something on the landscape, a
biography of the landscape. So my partner on 'Lewis and Clark' and (his current
project) 'Mark Twain,' a guy named Dayton Duncan, and I are exploring a project
on the history of parks, but not a travelogue as much as biographies of the
land," he said.
As for another 18-plus-hour epic, "I can imagine lots of different things:
immigration, the railroad, there's stuff I get ideas about all the time."



- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V2 #1003
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