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2000-07-13
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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #1002
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Friday, July 14 2000 Volume 02 : Number 1002
In this issue:
-
Re: Stockhausen (was new dream syndicate cd)
Re: Review: Dave Douglas' Witness, Tonic, 7/13/00
Re: new dream syndicate cd
Re: new dream syndicate cd
eyvind kang
Re: new dream syndicate cd
Re: Steve Reich
Re: Stockhausen (was new dream syndicate cd)
Re: Steve Reich
Re: new dream syndicate cd
Re: Stockhausen (was new dream syndicate cd)
Re: Stockhausen (was new dream syndicate cd)
Re: Steve Reich
Re: new dream syndicate cd
Re: new dream syndicate cd
Re: Steve Reich
Re: Steve Reich
Re: new dream syndicate cd
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 07:11:50 -0400
From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <cdeupree@erinet.com>
Subject: Re: Stockhausen (was new dream syndicate cd)
At 12:27 AM 7/14/00 EDT, JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote:
>
><< I'm trying to order some damn Stockhausen from the label over there.
>Anybody have an inside scoop on Verlag's "Kontakte" (as compared to the
record
>called "Kontakte Refrain Zyklus" and "Zodiac Boxes"? >>
>
>the one you probably want (the all-electronic version) is on catalog number
>3, Elektronische Musik 1952-1960.
As Jon alludes, Kontakte exists in two versions, one all electronics, and
the other the electronics with piano and percussion. The electronics is
the same in both cases. I prefer the instrumental version, but YMMV.
Zyklus is for percussion solo, and Refrain is piano and two percussionists
(I think). The Zodiac boxes are late Stockhausen and are the original
incarnation, in music boxes, of twelve melodies which he later used in much
of his work. Most folks, myself included, don't care much for late
Stockhausen, so I wouldn't recommend the Zodiac boxes. If you really want
to order from Stockhausen Verlag (at new lower prices!), take Jon's advice
and spring for Hymnen (number 10) and Microphonie/Telemusik (number 9). If
you win the lottery, get From the Seven Days (number 14).
As an aside, I've ordered from SV twice, both times sending a plain old US
check, and both times receiving a package after a couple of months. Very
easy, but no feedback until the package arrives.
>also, if you decide to take the plunge for Hymnen at some point (so
>expensive, but so worthwhile), the one you probably want is the four disc
>set, catalog number 40. and the disc with Telemusik is also amazing, but my
>copy's lent out now, so I don't know that number.
- --
Caleb Deupree
cdeupree@erinet.com
Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance
like nobody's watching.
- -- Satchel Paige
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 13:18:38 CEST
From: "Andreas Dietz" <andreasdietz@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Review: Dave Douglas' Witness, Tonic, 7/13/00
>From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com>
>
>The nine members of Witness were deployed in a variety of ways during
>the course of the evening's two sets. On occasion the counterpoint
>between sections - winds (Douglas, clarinetist/saxophonist Chris Speed,
>euphonium/tuba player Joe Daley), strings (violinist Joyce Hammann,
>cellist Peggy Lee, bassist Drew Gress) and percussion (mallet
>percussionist Bryan Carrott, drummer Mike Sarin, drum machine player
>Ikue Mori) - was explicit.
AFAIK this project was a composition on behalf of the german new music
festival Donaueschinger Musiktage and premiered under the title 'Speaking
Truth To Power' on 10/15/99. The line up was near Douglas, Speed, Gress,
Carrott, Mori and Sarin, Josh Roseman - trombone, Erik Friedlander - cello,
Mark Feldman - violin. I┤ve heard the live broadcast and was really
impressed - definitetly more than expected.
Andreas
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 09:24:20 -0400
From: Perfect Sound Forever <perfect-sound@furious.com>
Subject: Re: new dream syndicate cd
It's sad to see all the La Monte bashing going on here. First of all, the Creative
Loafing article about the Dream Syndicate was filled with inaccuracies- they obviously
didn't check their sources and took what they heard at surface value.
As for La Monte's current activies, he's taken his Forever Bad Blues Band to Europe
for a show this year (see http://lamonteyoung.com/news.htm) and put on regular
concerts at his performance space, the Dream House (275 Church, NYC), showcasing work
his work along with rare recordings and performances of works by Terry Jennings,
Richard Maxwell and others as well as works by new, younger composers. Also, the
all-day Pandit Pran Nath memorial concerts that they put on are wonderous
experieinces.
The Dream House itself is an incredible environment that's open on Thursdays and
Saturdays. The earth-shaking tones generated there are such that when you walk around
the space, you're every move changes the sounds you hear a little (sometimes a lot).
Anyone who isn't a believer should definitely visit the Dream House and sign up on
their mailing list to hear about future concerts happening there.
Best,
Jason
- --
Perfect Sound Forever
online music magazine
perfect-sound@furious.com
http://www.furious.com/perfect
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 09:32:24 -0400
From: David Beardsley <xouoxno@virtulink.com>
Subject: Re: new dream syndicate cd
"Patrice L. Roussel" wrote:
>
> On Thu, 13 Jul 2000 20:18:51 -0400 David Beardsley wrote:
> >
> > "Alastair Wilson" <wilsonah@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I think it's depressing that we have to "pick sides" on the whole Dream
> > > Syndicate thing. What is La Monte Young scared of?
> >
> > Getting ripped off. Duh!
>
> And ripped off of what?
Not getting what he expects to get for his art.
Not having control means getting ripped off.
I'm sure John Zorn doesn't like getting ripped of either.
> I keep on reading on how fantastic he is and everytime a record comes out
> (not often), I only read disappointements or even worst, wishy-washy
> comments.
At http://lamonteyoung.com there are pages for press
on the Well Tuned Piano & Forever Bad Blues Band releases.
(of course they wouldn't put bad press up there silly)
> I have seen artists being dumped for less than that... Seriously, what
> has LaMonte Young done in the past twenty years that matters? I am sure
> that some people on the list have attended some of his concerts. Are we
> really missing something or is he simply a house built on sand?
The Dream House in NYC is still going strong,
they're planning on re-opening in the Fall after
they renew the lease. I've spent a lot of time there,
the light & sound enviroment never fails to blow me
away.
I was at the BAM performance of Chronos Kristalla
(1990,string quartet) performed by the Kronos Qt.
in '95 or '96?. 90 mins or so of open string harmonics.
I wouldn't mind hearing that again.
I heard two nights of the Forever Bad Blues Band
at the Knitting Factory in June of '96. I went to
the first night thinking "I didn't understand the
piece on the cd" only to really enjoying the concert
enough to return for the second nights performance.
This band toured quite a bit until this concert,
then there was a break until a concert in Italy
last May. I hear it was so amazing that they want to
release it on DVD. I know from hearing a rehearsal
in the Dream House (June or July '99) the piece has
changed a bit.
I've heard him sing raga, simply amazing.
As for the Well Tuned Piano, I've never heard this work performed
live, but the out-of-print Gramavision release knocks
me out. To be able to have that focused concentration
for 5 hours - amazing.
Of course I'm somewhat biased.
And his name is spelled: La Monte - with a space.
- --
* D a v i d B e a r d s l e y
* xouoxno@virtulink.com
*
* 49/32 R a d i o "all microtonal, all the time"
* M E L A v i r t u a l d r e a m house monitor
*
* http://www.virtulink.com/immp/lookhere.htm
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 00:02:16 +1000
From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au>
Subject: eyvind kang
I was just wondering whether Kang had ever played his Tzadik-type material
live, apart from the odd tune with the Secret Chiefs - i.e. has he ever
done full shows dedicated to that material?
Julian.
(non-music-related bit... sorry, but i just thought there may be some
interest)
Well, it's kind of related in that I know some people will be interested in
making money to purchase all the albums mentioned on this list! Anyway, I
got sent one of those annoying pyramid scheme things recently, the only
thing is it seems it may actually work for a change. If you're interested
to give it a read, just email and say so...
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 07:02:18 -0700
From: "s~Z" <keith@pfmentum.com>
Subject: Re: new dream syndicate cd
>>>(I mean, Beefheart was/is an asshole, too.) <<<
Is this from personal experience?
Talk to Bruce Fowler or Brave Midnight Hat Size if you would like to get a
different perspective.
Asshole is a dynamic, not an individual characteristic, at least in this
case.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:25:04 -0400
From: David Beardsley <xouoxno@virtulink.com>
Subject: Re: Steve Reich
PSF wrote:
> As for favorite Reich recordings, you can't go wrong with the 1978 ECM
> version of Music for 18 Musicians. Completely transcendent.
But incomplete. The post-ECM recordings contain extra material that
didn't fit the time constrants of the ECM vinyl.
db
- --
* D a v i d B e a r d s l e y
* xouoxno@virtulink.com
*
* 49/32 R a d i o "all microtonal, all the time"
* M E L A v i r t u a l d r e a m house monitor
*
* http://www.virtulink.com/immp/lookhere.htm
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:37:37 EDT
From: JonAbbey2@aol.com
Subject: Re: Stockhausen (was new dream syndicate cd)
In a message dated 7/14/00 7:10:05 AM, cdeupree@erinet.com writes:
<< If you really want to order from Stockhausen Verlag (at new lower prices!)
>>
wow, thanks for the tip. the prices aren't bad at all now.
<<If you win the lottery, get From the Seven Days (number 14).>>
any sort of brief description of this? I know it's from his week-long opera.
is there much singing? is the music primarily acoustic or electronic?
<<take Jon's advice and spring for Hymnen (number 10) and
Microphonie/Telemusik (number 9).>>
other Stockhausen Verlag CDs I'd recommend (after the two essential ones
above) are Kurzwellen (13) and Sternklang (18).
Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 08:00:57 -0700
From: "s~Z" <keith@pfmentum.com>
Subject: Re: Steve Reich
This live recording of '18 Musicians' is worth a listen as well.
VARIOUS ARTIST
"UTOPIA AMERICANA"
NewTone Records - nt 6707 2 cd
1.Allen Ginsberg - Hum Bomb (3.05)
2.Steve Reich - Music for 18 Musicians (part I&II) (11.25)
3.Michael Galasso - Baroque (2.33)
4.Ben Neill - Bal (5.32)
5.John Cage - Third Construction (11.20)
6.David Behrman - A Traveller's Dream Journal(EWR-LAX)(6.53)
7.Pauline Oliveros - A Woman Sees How the World Goes with No Eyes /7.20)
8.Steve Lacy - Pannonica (7.36)
9.John Zorn/ Andrea Centazzo - First Environment for Sextet (13.14)
10.Allen Ginsberg - Father Death Blues(3.22)
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 08:11:15 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Subject: Re: new dream syndicate cd
On Fri, 14 Jul 2000 09:24:20 -0400 Perfect Sound Forever wrote:
>
> It's sad to see all the La Monte bashing going on here. First of all, the Creative
> Loafing article about the Dream Syndicate was filled with inaccuracies- they obviously
> didn't check their sources and took what they heard at surface value.
I would not call questioning bashing. Any holy cow deserves once in a while a little
bit of questioning, assuming that we still have our critical judgement turned on
(which, I agree, is not the natural way to deal with holy cows).
Thanks for the comments on actual performances of LaMonte Young. I might even try to
see him if he happen to stop in Portland!
Patrice.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 08:20:18 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Subject: Re: Stockhausen (was new dream syndicate cd)
On Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:37:37 EDT JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote:
>
> <<If you win the lottery, get From the Seven Days (number 14).>>
>
It is a long cycle composed in the late '60s and, for me, the beginning of my
lack of interest in Stockhausen's music (specially after such landmarks as
TELEMUZIK, MIKROPHONIE, HYMNEN). I could be wrong, but it might be the first
composition for which he used the term "intuitive music". The music sounds
fairly improvised, with singing. Kind of dadaist/happening mood (at least on
AUS DEN SIEBEN TAGEN, the only part that I am familiar with).
Patrice.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 08:42:57 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Subject: Re: Stockhausen (was new dream syndicate cd)
On Fri, 14 Jul 2000 07:11:50 -0400 "Caleb T. Deupree" wrote:
>
> to order from Stockhausen Verlag (at new lower prices!), take Jon's advice
> and spring for Hymnen (number 10) and Microphonie/Telemusik (number 9). If
> you win the lottery, get From the Seven Days (number 14).
Wasn't EMF carrying some of the Verlag catalog in the US?
Anybody knows if OPUS 71 is still available?
Patrice.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 08:44:40 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Subject: Re: Steve Reich
On Fri, 14 Jul 2000 08:00:57 -0700 "s~Z" wrote:
>
> This live recording of '18 Musicians' is worth a listen as well.
But 11:25 of 18 MUSICIANS is like a 7" version of IN C :-).
Patrice.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 12:07:24 -0400
From: Perfect Sound Forever <perfect-sound@furious.com>
Subject: Re: new dream syndicate cd
"Patrice L. Roussel" wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Jul 2000 09:24:20 -0400 Perfect Sound Forever wrote:
> >
> > It's sad to see all the La Monte bashing going on here. First of all, the Creative
> > Loafing article about the Dream Syndicate was filled with inaccuracies- they obviously
> > didn't check their sources and took what they heard at surface value.
>
> I would not call questioning bashing. Any holy cow deserves once in a while a little
> bit of questioning, assuming that we still have our critical judgement turned on
> (which, I agree, is not the natural way to deal with holy cows).
I agree too. It's healthy to question 'facts.'
The reason that I'm so contentious about this is that Tony Conrad has been battling with La
Monte for years now, trying to rewrite history. Conrad's been winning this so far mainly
because he is much better at PR than La Monte is.
Best,
Jason
- --
Perfect Sound Forever
online music magazine
perfect-sound@furious.com
http://www.furious.com/perfect
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 09:19:50 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Subject: Re: new dream syndicate cd
On Fri, 14 Jul 2000 12:07:24 -0400 Perfect Sound Forever wrote:
>
> The reason that I'm so contentious about this is that Tony Conrad has been battling with La
> Monte for years now, trying to rewrite history. Conrad's been winning this so far mainly
> because he is much better at PR than La Monte is.
Not sure about that, if he was so good at PR, he would not have had to repeat
the same hackneyed story for almost three decades :-).
I am happy that the record is finally out because Conrad will stop talking
about that.
It is just amazing to see that maybe one of the record with the highest
expectations in avant milieux finally comes out and the comments are
underwhelming, to say the least (although THE WIRE was really upbeat,
but you have sometimes to take reviews from THE WIRE with a grain
of salt).
Patrice.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 12:27:41 -0400
From: Dan Hewins <dan@synsolutions.com>
Subject: Re: Steve Reich
A whole-heartedly agree with this recommendation. Even though it
seems like "to remix" means to add in hip-hop or otherwise dance-ish
beats to whatever it is that's being remixed, the remixes of Reich's
pieces keep the spirit of Reich's music intact. Some are better than
others, of course, but to an extent, they all are recognizably Reich.
It is strange to me about remixes. Because if it is a remix of the
original music, where did the beats come from? Obviously, for the
most part, they are inserted. In the case of a Tortoise remix, I can
see how the remixer could 'cut and paste' beats out of the drum track
to create more and other beats but I can't remember hearing any trap
kit or drum machine beats in any of Reich's music...
Dan Hewins
At 6:56 PM -0400 7/13/00, Nils wrote:
>It's also worthwhile to check out the recent Nonesuch record
>'Reich Remixed,' which renders his most popular stuff to beats
>(ie remix). And believe it or not, some of that is quite
>satisfying.
>
>-
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 11:43:56 -0400
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>
Subject: Re: Steve Reich
On Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 12:27:41PM -0400, Dan Hewins wrote:
> A whole-heartedly agree with this recommendation. Even though it
> seems like "to remix" means to add in hip-hop or otherwise dance-ish
> beats to whatever it is that's being remixed, the remixes of Reich's
> pieces keep the spirit of Reich's music intact. Some are better than
> others, of course, but to an extent, they all are recognizably Reich.
I'll have to disagree with this. Much of the heart of Reich's music is
its rhythmic and metric subtleties, and putting plodding 4/4 beats
under it is like taking a flowing painting and superimposing a
graph paper grid on top, or taking a microtonal piece and forcing it
into equal temperament. While what you get is mildly intersting, it
utterly loses the point of the original.
- --
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 11:29:49 -0400
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>
Subject: Re: new dream syndicate cd
On Fri, Jul 14, 2000 at 09:32:24AM -0400, David Beardsley wrote:
>
> "Patrice L. Roussel" wrote:
> >
> > On Thu, 13 Jul 2000 20:18:51 -0400 David Beardsley wrote:
> > >
> > > "Alastair Wilson" <wilsonah@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I think it's depressing that we have to "pick sides" on the whole Dream
> > > > Syndicate thing. What is La Monte Young scared of?
> > >
> > > Getting ripped off. Duh!
> >
> > And ripped off of what?
>
> Not getting what he expects to get for his art.
> Not having control means getting ripped off.
> I'm sure John Zorn doesn't like getting ripped of either.
The issue keeps revolving over whether it is strictly his art.
Since he views himself as sole composer, he doesn't want to get
ripped off by having to share credit with others. Since Cale and
Conrad view themselves as co-composers, they don't want to get
ripped off by not being given that credit.
> I was at the BAM performance of Chronos Kristalla
> (1990,string quartet) performed by the Kronos Qt.
> in '95 or '96?. 90 mins or so of open string harmonics.
> I wouldn't mind hearing that again.
I have a bootleg cassette of it somewhere. The recording is
dodgy, but the piece is quite beautiful.
(There was a massive bootleg series of red-cased cassettes of
music relating to the Velvet underground circulating some years
ago. Two tapes were of Young's work, one containing Chronos
Kristalla and another containing the Black Record and several
other pieces. Until the real things come along, they're the
best thing out there.
And no, folks, don't ask me to dupe them.)
> Of course I'm somewhat biased.
One thing I've noticed, though I haven't done an exact count: it
strikes me that every person who has championed Young's point of
view and narrative of the music's history has identified himself as
either a close friend of his or has worked directly with him (at
the Dream House or elsewhere). Those who believe that other narratives
might be valid seem to come from a wider circle. Is this an accurate
perception? Why is this so?
- --
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V2 #1002
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