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1997-02-24
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From: zorn-list-owner@xmission.com
To: zorn-list-digest@xmission.com
Subject: zorn-list Digest V2 #64
Reply-To: zorn-list@xmission.com
Errors-To: zorn-list-owner@xmission.com
Precedence:
zorn-list Digest Tuesday, 25 February 1997 Volume 02 : Number 064
In this issue:
really Otomo's Ground Zero?
Tim Berne in Louisville, KY
Cul de Sac Live(s),with E#/Zeena/Bachir Attar @The Cooler, etc.
Re: really Otomo's Ground Zero?
I'm new
Re: I'm new
Re: I'm new
Cobra - Tokyo Operations Disc
Re: Cobra - Tokyo Operations Disc
Re: Cobra - Tokyo Operations Disc
Blind Idiot God
Re: I'm new
Re: Blind Idiot God
Re: I'm new
Re: Cobra - Tokyo Operations Disc
Re: I'm new
Torture Garden etc
Re: recommendations
Re: I'm new
Butch Morris CD's
Butch Morris
Re: Torture Garden etc
See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the zorn-list
or zorn-list-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 09:14:52 -0800
Subject: really Otomo's Ground Zero?
Does anybody know the following record:
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*** - THE HAIR & SKIN TRADING CO./JO IN NINE G HELL: various artists
This record features Elevenate, Flat Truck, Torque, Monkies, Kak, Where's
Gala, Ground Zero, $1000 Pledge, The Final Nail, Pipeline.
1993 - Beggar's Banquet (USA), BEG 07863 66136-2 (CD)
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Could it really be the Ground Zero of Otomo Yoshihide?
Thanks,
Patrice.
------------------------------
From: thayes@iglou.com (Todd Hildreth)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 17:38:04 GMT
Subject: Tim Berne in Louisville, KY
Just a note to let everybody know that Tim Berne's Bloodcount will be
making am appearance here in Louisville, KY on Marsh 14th. If you're
interested in this, email me and I'll keep you posted as I find out
more info.
Todd
- ---=20
http://www.webcom.com/groove/javamen/welcome.html
------------------------------
From: JoLaMaSoul@aol.com
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 18:01:26 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Cul de Sac Live(s),with E#/Zeena/Bachir Attar @The Cooler, etc.
Greetings, fellow appreciators of fine music,
Just wanted to plug the Cul de Sac tour, which will start off in NYC @
The Cooler on Wed. 2/26. Sharing the bill will be Elliott Sharp/Zeena
Parkins/Bachir Attar (from The Master Musician's of Jajouka) Doors at 8pm,
show at 9pm. The Cooler is located on West 14th St., and their phone # is
212-229-0785. Stops along the tour include Philly, Chicago, and Michigan, in
case these lists are wondering why I've posted with them, too.
Cul de Sac maintains a website @:
http://www1.shore.net/~csf/culdesac.htm
You can hear a 60 sec.sample of the tune "Doldrums" here and read the critics
raving about Cul de Sac.
The tour line-up will be:Robin Amos (analog and digital synths, sampler)
Glenn Jones (guiotar, bazooki)
Jonathan LaMaster(bass, violin.Filling
in for Chris Fujiwara)
Michael Knoblach (drums and percussion)
You can also catch Cul de Sac in the following places:
Thurs. 2/27 Phildelphia: Dragon's Den, 3210 Chestnut , on the Drexel
Univ.campus
with Bardo Pond and The Dealers
Fri. 2/28 Charlottsville, VA @ The Tokyo Rose Sushi and Bands (804-963-5478)
with Last Days of May and Carl P. (ex. Dream Syndicate)
Sat. 3/1 Durham, NC @ Duke Univ
Sun. 3/2 Greensboro, NC @ ? with Raymond Break
Mon. 3/3 Washington, DC @ The Black Cat Backroom (202-667-4527) with Tone
Tues. 3/4 Athens, GA @ Atomic Cafe, 140 E. Washington St. with Elf Power
(Members of Neutral Milk and Olivia Tremor Control)
Wed. 3/5 Atlanta, GA @ Dottie's (404-523-3444) ?
Thurs. 3/6 Birmingham, AL @ ??
Fri. 3/7 Memphis, TN @ Barristers, 147 Jefferson St. with Hot Monkey
Sat. 3/8 Columbia, MO? KC? Wanna book us?
Sun 3/9 ??
Mon. 3/10 Lawrence, KS @ Replay Lounge (913-838-4510) with Rome
Tues. 3/11 Chicago, IL @ Lounge Axe, 2438 N. Lincoln with Rome
Wed. 3/12 Bloomington, IN @ The University somewhere? with Rome
Thurs. 3/13 ?? Your midwestern town, USA??
Fri. 3/14 Grand Rapids, MI @ ?
Sat. 3/15 Detroit, MI @ Alvin's (313-538-4962) with Rome
Sun. 3/16 Cleveland, OH @ Speak in Tongues
Mon. 3/17 Pittsburgh, PA @ Charlie's? The Beehive? With ?Dim Sum Clip Job??
Tues. 3/18 Providence, RI @ ??
Hope to see folks at some of these shows!! Come introduce yourselves, I'd
love to meet one and all of ya!
Jonathan LaMaster
Unsound Productions/ Boston Creative Music Alliance
------------------------------
From: mool@sirius.com (Allan)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 20:19:59 -0800
Subject: Re: really Otomo's Ground Zero?
Patrice asked:
> Does anybody know the following record:
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>*** - THE HAIR & SKIN TRADING CO./JO IN NINE G HELL: various artists
>
> This record features Elevenate, Flat Truck, Torque, Monkies, Kak, Where's
> Gala, Ground Zero, $1000 Pledge, The Final Nail, Pipeline.
>
> 1993 - Beggar's Banquet (USA), BEG 07863 66136-2 (CD)
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Could it really be the Ground Zero of Otomo Yoshihide?
While I can't say that I've heard the record in question, I know that it's
not a "various artists" compilation, the listing is in error. It's the
band Hair & Skin Trading Co., an spin-off from Loop (cousin to Main), and
so therefore Ground Zero, Kak, etc. are all song titles, not band names.
There was also a rap group a few years back by the name of Ground Zero,
their record featured a Bootsy Collins cameo. Somebody should arrange for
Bootsy to do something with Otomo's Ground Zero, I suggest.
- --Allan Horrocks
------------------------------
From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@ctech.smtc.mtcs.tec.me.us>
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 18:33:28 -0500
Subject: I'm new
Hello,
My name is Tom Pratt, I'm a 15 year old guitar player and fairly new
fan of John Zorn. I have Masada 2 and 3 and Bar Kokhba but that's it.
I've heard Naked City (with the dead gangster) but don't own it. My
musical interests include Medeski, Martin & Wood, Dave Douglas, Mark
Feldman, Bill Frisell, Joey Baron, Human Feel, Anthony Braxton, Mark
Dresser, Jonas Hellborg, Bill Frisell, Erik Friedlander, Eric Dolphy,
Miles Davis, Grachan Moncur III, and lots of other stuff. As you can
see, most of these people lead to John Zorn in some way. Anyway, I'm
looking to find more albums out by John Zorn that I would like. I know
that his music ranges a lot from album to album but any sort of
recommendations would be appreciated. Glad to be here!
-Tom Pratt
------------------------------
From: martinj@SONOMA.EDU
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 16:38:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: I'm new
Hi, and welcome aboard!
Two words: TORTURE GARDEN. THis was my first zorn album, and it started
me off right. 42 songs, 24 minutes...What more could you ask for?
Also, Painkiller's execution ground double cd. Umm...incredible.
For more straighter stuff, get every masada album you can find, because
they all equally kick ass. Especially the 1994 live one (may take a bit
to find it). If you want to get both feet right in to his weirdness, get
a classic guide to strategy. OH! Very importantly, check out FILMWORKS
2! I think everyone will agree that it is truly something special.
there are some EXTREME zorn collecters on this list that could do about a
million times of a better job of advising you, but this should get your
feet into some of his main stuff. Ok. THat's all. Take care.
j
------------------------------
From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu>
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 22:36:07 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: I'm new
On Sat, 22 Feb 1997 martinj@SONOMA.EDU wrote:
> Two words: TORTURE GARDEN. THis was my first zorn album, and it started
> me off right. 42 songs, 24 minutes...What more could you ask for?
> Also, Painkiller's execution ground double cd. Umm...incredible.
> For more straighter stuff, get every masada album you can find, because
> they all equally kick ass. Especially the 1994 live one (may take a bit
> to find it). If you want to get both feet right in to his weirdness, get
> a classic guide to strategy.
I'd second all of the above. _Torture Garden_ is included on the CD
_Grand Guignol_. Note that _A Classic Guide to Strategy_ is
solo reed improvisation. Of the studio Masada albums, which are easier to
find and not bootlegs, many Zorn fans seem to give the edge to _Masada 3_.
OH! Very importantly, check out FILMWORKS
> 2! I think everyone will agree that it is truly something special.
I'm surprised by this one. Is there really a consensus on this? I like
it fine, but I like it less than the other _Filmworks_ discs.
I'd also recommend _Cobra_ as the best example of Zorn's game
compositions. (Go for the Hat Hut version if possible, and avoid the
Knitting Factory Works version, unless you turn into a completist.) Also
_The Big Gundown_ for his work as an arranger of other people's
compositions, and _Yankees_ for group improv. Obviously, the above is a
big list; you should dive into whatever portion of it most
interests you.
Chris Hamilton
P.S. Welcome to the list, Tom. I accidentally deleted your initial post,
so I apologize if I've recommended anything you already have.
------------------------------
From: chavez@netrax.net (Chavez-Paul)
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 00:30:06 -0800
Subject: Cobra - Tokyo Operations Disc
I'm curious to know if people would recommend this disc. My curiosity was touched from
reading the list of instruments used. I don't have the other Cobra discs (but I've
heard them and thought they were ok). I enjoy the Masada series, Bar Kokhba,
Filmworks, as well as the Naked City stuff (except Radio).
I was wondering if Tokyo Operations is mellow or noisey and spastic. Any input is
appreciated.
Paul
NP: Dead C - Repent
------------------------------
From: IOUaLive1@aol.com
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 01:13:51 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Cobra - Tokyo Operations Disc
In a message dated 97-02-24 00:33:25 EST, chavez@netrax.net (Chavez-Paul)
writes:
> I enjoy the Masada series, Bar Kokhba,
> Filmworks, as well as the Naked City stuff (except Radio).
I'm just wondering how you can not like this? Especially since it isn't that
unsimilar to the first Naked City disc.
------------------------------
From: Scott Russell <srussell@cims.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 10:09:29 +0000
Subject: Re: Cobra - Tokyo Operations Disc
> I was wondering if Tokyo Operations is mellow or noisey and spastic. Any input is
> appreciated.
>
Paul, the short answer is, all of the above!
The Tokyo Cobra features the usual variety of players but the music
veers from traditional-ish (and I mean that term relatively) Japanese
music to full-on screaming improvisation and stops at most points in
between. It has a distinctly different character to the original NY
Cobra which features the by now fairly familiar mix of improvisation
and skewed scribbling around. Tokyo Operations is a good disc but
remember that Zorn doesn't play on it. It will also help if you are
familier with other Japanese underground acts such as Otomo Yoshihide,
Musica Transonic and Keiji Haino as their influence is distinctly
audible.
Scott Russell.
------------------------------
From: Matt Moffett <chaos@tamos.gmu.edu>
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 11:22:29 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Blind Idiot God
I just picked up their self titled album on SST, and have fallen in love
with it. How does their material on Avant compare to this album?
thanks
Matt
------------------------------
From: silver whale <tkorpipa@siba.fi>
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 18:34:05 +0200 (GMT+0200)
Subject: Re: I'm new
On Sun, 23 Feb 1997, Christopher Hamilton wrote:
> _Torture Garden_ is included on the CD
> _Grand Guignol_.
I don't have GG (and I kick myself again just now for not buying it),
but... Isn't half of TG on Naked City 1 (the dead gangster)? I mean,
there's 45 or so tracks on TG. I think TG is spread on both CD versions
of NC1 and GG.
teemu
OnNow: Air Liquide:'Red'
- -------------
e-mail: tkorpipa@siba.fi "Follow that rat!"
Ruumen: http://www.siba.fi/~tkorpipa/ruumen.html - Fox Mulder -
------------------------------
From: xander@sirius.com
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 09:08:10 -0800
Subject: Re: Blind Idiot God
>I just picked up their self titled album on SST, and have fallen in love
>with it. How does their material on Avant compare to this album?
I have no idea it compares, but I've got the album ("Cyclotron") on Avant
and just isn't my cup of tea, so, that said, if anyone wants to take a
chance on it, it yours for ... how about US $11, including 1st class
postage within the US. For Canada add $1, elsewhere add $2. Checks are
fine, some non-US currencies accepted. Please e-mail me directly if you're
interested.
Hmm, probably the same thing goes for the Pig Pen disc on Avant and some
other stuff, but I need to listen to it again.
Alexander
xander@sirius.com
------------------------------
From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu>
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 20:52:36 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: I'm new
On Mon, 24 Feb 1997, silver whale wrote:
> I don't have GG (and I kick myself again just now for not buying it),
> but... Isn't half of TG on Naked City 1 (the dead gangster)? I mean,
> there's 45 or so tracks on TG. I think TG is spread on both CD versions
> of NC1 and GG.
ARGH! My bad. 33 of 45 tracks are on _Grand Guignol_. Enough, I think,
to make it a reasonable substitute.
Chris Hamilton
------------------------------
From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu>
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 21:08:08 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Cobra - Tokyo Operations Disc
I like it a lot. It's more accessible than the Hat Hut version, with more
obvious genre references. It's not mellow, but I can play it in the
middle of the night without annoying my neighbors. However, if you're not
into the more improv-oriented parts of Zorn's work, I couldn't recommend
it as a good way in.
Chris Hamilton
------------------------------
From: martinj@SONOMA.EDU
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 12:03:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: I'm new
The tape & lp versions of torture garden only have half the songs that the
cd t.g. does. Grand Guignol has the supplemental tracks. The gangster
album has some, but not all of the additional tracks.
On Mon, 24 Feb 1997, silver whale wrote:
> On Sun, 23 Feb 1997, Christopher Hamilton wrote:
>
> > _Torture Garden_ is included on the CD
> > _Grand Guignol_.
>
> I don't have GG (and I kick myself again just now for not buying it),
> but... Isn't half of TG on Naked City 1 (the dead gangster)? I mean,
> there's 45 or so tracks on TG. I think TG is spread on both CD versions
> of NC1 and GG.
------------------------------
From: Scott Russell <srussell@cims.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 08:29:50 +0000
Subject: Torture Garden etc
The tape & lp versions of torture garden only have half the songs that
the cd t.g. does. Grand Guignol has the supplemental tracks. The
gangster album has some, but not all of the additional tracks.
Patrice
Regarding the above comment,I'm a little confused about the thrash
tracks that make up Naked City/Torture Garden/Grand Guignol. I'm sure
if I'd read your discography thoroughly I'd know this but, are they
all from the same sessions? I know they are duplicated across these
discs but my understanding was that TT is duplicated on GG. I didn't
realise there were also duplications from NC? Am I wrong here? Does
the TT CD have even more tracks? Lastly I did look for the European CD
of TT as we discussed but I can't find it. A friend tells me he thinks
he has seen one on Earache but...
I'd appreciate your expert guidance.
Scott Russell.
------------------------------
From: silver whale <tkorpipa@siba.fi>
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 11:43:05 +0200 (GMT+0200)
Subject: Re: recommendations
On Mon, 24 Feb 1997, Matthew Ross Davis wrote:
> If you don't buy GG because it has repeated material
> on it, you do yourself a diservice, as you miss a whole different side of
> Zorn and Naked City.
No no no. I really kick myself for not getting it yet (and do it once
again, excuse me for a sec... outch!) I really liked Messien (sp?) at one
time (still do) and I'm very interested to hear their version. The problem is,
however, that I have a 100-something list of records to get, and GG, for
some reason (maybe because Avant disks - it is on Avant, isn't it? - are
so phukin' expensive here) always got dropped out of my list then I had
money. Stupid me...
teemu
- -------------
e-mail: tkorpipa@siba.fi "Follow that rat!"
Ruumen: http://www.siba.fi/~tkorpipa/ruumen.html - Fox Mulder -
------------------------------
From: silver whale <tkorpipa@siba.fi>
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 11:47:37 +0200 (GMT+0200)
Subject: Re: I'm new
On Mon, 24 Feb 1997 martinj@SONOMA.EDU wrote:
> The tape & lp versions of torture garden only have half the songs that the
> cd t.g. does. Grand Guignol has the supplemental tracks. The gangster
> album has some, but not all of the additional tracks.
Well, I may be nitpickin' here, but I once had the TG lp (just loaned)
and it had lots of tracks from NC1 (speedball, I die screaming etc etc)
I've never even seen the cd of TG so I may not be qualified to make any
further comments... :)
Who could set the record straight? Anyone has the CDs for TG, GG _and_ NC1?
Maybe we should look at the discography? :) Where is it, BTW?
teemu
- -------------
e-mail: tkorpipa@siba.fi "Follow that rat!"
Ruumen: http://www.siba.fi/~tkorpipa/ruumen.html - Fox Mulder -
------------------------------
From: Jan-Wen Lu <janwenlu@cerebus.asiaonline.net.tw>
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 19:30:31 +0800
Subject: Butch Morris CD's
Hi,
I've been trying very hard to find Butch Morris' "Current Trends In Racism
In Modern America" and "Homeing" CD's. Both released by Sound Aspect Sound
in Germany. Does anyone know where to mail-order them? Or they were out of
print? Thanks.
Best regards,
Jan-Wen Lu
Taipei County, Taiwan
- --
Jan-Wen Lu E-Mail address: janwenlu@asiaonline.net.tw
------------------------------
From: Scott Russell <srussell@cims.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 11:56:51 +0000
Subject: Butch Morris
Can anyone tell me anything about TESTAMENT: A CONDUCTION COLLECTION
by Lawrence "Butch" Morris. This is a 10 disc set of Morris conducting
various ensembles. I know very little about his music but feel I would
enjoy it based on the ensembles listed.
While I'm on the subject does anyone know anything about the Los
Angeles Free Music Society. I've been reading about them with some
interest but the only available recording is yet another 10 cd set.
Again, I'd appreciate any information anyone could provide.
Thanks in advance
Scott Russell.
------------------------------
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 08:07:47 -0800
Subject: Re: Torture Garden etc
On Tue, 25 Feb 1997 08:29:50 +0000 Scott Russell wrote:
>
> The tape & lp versions of torture garden only have half the songs that
> the cd t.g. does. Grand Guignol has the supplemental tracks. The
> gangster album has some, but not all of the additional tracks.
>
> Patrice
>
> Regarding the above comment,I'm a little confused about the thrash
> tracks that make up Naked City/Torture Garden/Grand Guignol. I'm sure
> if I'd read your discography thoroughly I'd know this but, are they
> all from the same sessions? I know they are duplicated across these
> discs but my understanding was that TT is duplicated on GG. I didn't
> realise there were also duplications from NC? Am I wrong here? Does
> the TT CD have even more tracks? Lastly I did look for the European CD
> of TT as we discussed but I can't find it. A friend tells me he thinks
> he has seen one on Earache but...
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
094 - TORTURE GARDEN: Naked City
1/ Blood is Thin (Zorn) 1:00
2/ Demon Sanctuary (Zorn) 0:38
3/ Thrash Jazz Assassin (Zorn) 0:45
4/ Dead Spot (Zorn) 0:31
5/ Bonehead (Zorn) 0:51
6/ Speedball (Zorn) 0:37
7/ Blood Duster (Zorn) 0:13
8/ Pile Driver (Zorn) 0:33
9/ Shangkuan Ling-Feng (Zorn) 1:14
10/ Numbskull (Zorn) 0:29
11/ Perfume Of A Critic's Burning Flesh (Zorn) 0:24
12/ Jazz Snob Eat Shit (Zorn) 0:24
13/ The Prestidigitator (Zorn) 0:43
14/ No Reason To Believe (Zorn) 0:26
15/ Hellraiser (Zorn) 0:39
16/ Torture Garden (Zorn) 0:35
17/ Slan (Zorn) 0:23
18/ Hammerhead (Zorn) 0:08
19/ The Ways Of Pain (Zorn) 0:31
20/ The Noose (Zorn) 0:10
21/ Sack Of Shit (Zorn) 0:43
22/ Blunt Instrument (Zorn) 0:53
23/ Osaka Bondage (Zorn) 1:14
24/ Igneous Ejaculation (Zorn) 0:20
25/ Shallow Grave (Zorn) 0:40
26/ Ujaku (Zorn) 0:27
27/ Kaoru (Zorn) 0:50
28/ Dead Dread (Zorn) 0:45
29/ Billy Liar (Zorn) 0:10
30/ Victims Of Torture (Zorn) 0:22
31/ Speedfreaks (Zorn) 0:29
32/ New Jersey Scum Swamp (Zorn) 0:41
33/ S & M Sniper (Zorn) 0:14
34/ Pigfucker (Zorn) 0:23
35/ Cairo Chop Shop (Zorn) 0:22
36/ Fuck The Facts (Zorn) 0:11
37/ Obeah Man (Zorn) 0:17
38/ Facelifter (Zorn) 0:34
39/ N.Y. Flat Top Box (Zorn) 0:43
40/ Whiplash (Zorn) 0:19
41/ The Blade (Zorn) 0:36
42/ Gob Of Spit (Zorn) 0:18
Recorded in Brooklyn, New York City and Tokyo 1989-1990
John Zorn: alto, vocals; Bill Frisell: guitar; Wayne Horvitz: keyboards;
Fred Frith: bass; Joey Baron: drums; Yamatsuka Eye: vocals.
1990 - Shimmy-Disc (USA), S-039-CS (CT)
1990 - Shimmy-Disc (USA), (45 RPM 12")
1990 - Earache (UK), Mosh 28 (LP)
1990 - Earache (UK), Mosh 28 CD (CD)
1990 - Earache (UK), Mosh 28 MC (CT)
1991 - Toy's Factory Records (Japan), TFCK-88557 (CD)
1993 - Shimmy-Disc (USA), 039 (CD)
1996 - Tzadik (USA), TZ ???? (CD)
Note: all the songs except (2,6,7,18,24,26,36,37,39) are also available on
GRAND GUIGNOL (1992).
Note: (2,6,7,18,24,26,36,37,39) were previously released on NAKED CITY
(1990).
Note: the Tzadik reissue is not released yet (planned for March 18, 1997).
Note: the Tzadik reissue also includes LENG TCH'E (1992).
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
End of zorn-list Digest V2 #64
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