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zorn-list Digest          Tuesday, 4 February 1997      Volume 02 : Number 060

In this issue:

    weak Charles Gayle?
    Re: Zorn book blurb
    Re: Zorn book blurb
    Kang's CD/Horvitz show
    Henry Hills/JZ
    Re: New Eyvind Kang album?
    masada 4
    Re: Henry Hills
    Re: hobah/Leng T'che
    Re: FAQ addition
    Re: New Eyvind Kang album?
    Re: masada 4
    Derek and The Ruins
    Re: Derek and The Ruins
    Archery
    Re: Archery
    Re: Henry Hills/JZ
    Re: Horvitz show, Julian Priester
    Re: Zorn book blurb
    Re: Horvitz show, Julian Priester
    Re:Archery
    skopelitis
    Re: skopelitis

See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the zorn-list
or zorn-list-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Christopher Hamilton <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 22:01:50 -0500 (EST)
Subject: weak Charles Gayle?

On Mon, 3 Feb 1997, Caleb Deupree wrote:

> And the more emotional an artist is, the less likely that s/he will carry it
> off on every recording (Charles Gayle is another example of this).

Y'know, I've been pretty stunned by the consistency of Gayle's work.  For
someone working in a style which is often perceived as limited and/or
dated, he gets a hell of a lot of mileage out of it.  Maybe I've just been
lucky in my purchases, but the five records I have vary from really good
to excellent. I'd choose between them basically only on the basis of
accompaniment (or lack thereof) and Gayle's doubling on other instruments.
Which Gayles are the ones to avoid?

Chris Hamilton
[e-mail]



------------------------------

From: Jeff Spirer <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 19:53:14 -0800
Subject: Re: Zorn book blurb

At 11:08 AM 2/3/97 -0800, Bob Boster wrote:

>or "badge of honor" should rank as somehow larger than life.  And if a
>larger than life figure that's important to you expresses an opnion, than
>of course you'll value it more than the opinion of some shlub you meet in
>a bar....

This is probably true, but if I compare the larger than life figure to my
sister, whose tastes are very close to mine, I probably prefer my sister.
And by valuing hers more than the shlub in the bar and John Zorn (or any
other larger than life figure), I will probably be a happier person.

On the other hand, there is something to be said for the idea that the shlub
in the bar may turn me onto something I had no idea existed.  And given that
I have the time to interrogate the shlub in the bar, which I probably cannot
do with the larger than life figure, I might end up ahead.

Jeff Spirer
http://www.hyperreal.com/axiom/
Axiom Records/Material Communications


------------------------------

From: Jeff Spirer <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 19:53:12 -0800
Subject: Re: Zorn book blurb

At 10:08 AM 2/3/97 -0700, david m rothbaum wrote:

>i agree with this as well but i think its also important to point out that
>since music or any art for that matter isnt created in a vaccum.  to be
>inspired to compose or play write etc you are inspired by something in
>particular certianly at first.  and this is strickly dictated by owns one
>taste.  even in the most original works there is, however vague, a
>reference point to something somewhere.

This gets into the concept that context is important to understanding art, a
concept that I believe originated with the intellectual elite-ization of
art.  In fact, art that is "great" transcends all reference points, all
context, all social boundaries, and that is its greatness.  It brings people
together regardless of where they started and where they end up.

Some of this is accomplished by the ability to tap into the imagination and
allow people to create their own reference points and their own contexts.
As an example, I have been listening to North African music for the last ten
years and find it to be something of a spiritual experience.  In my mind, I
have an image of North Africa that was constructed by the music, and not
vice versa.  In all likelihood, I will find North Africa to be quite
different, and possibly inferior, to my fairly complex mental image when I
visit next year.  But that will probably not impact how I feel about the
music in the long term as I will continue to construct new ways of
responding to the music.

>and by this way of thinking i
>happen to think mr. zorn has exceptional "taste".  in his music there are
>direct refrences or combinations of musical/artistic/philosophical
>infulences. i dont think i have to point out the specific references in his
>work.  another point too,  you could say that his taste dictates who a
>givin composer/musician works with and again this is a testament to his
>good taste.  i would never agree that one should iconify anyone but i would
>if i could love to spend a week going through mr zorns record collection.

I don't really agree with most of this.  First of all, "exceptional taste"
is relative to what one likes.  I can introduce you to plenty of people who
think Kenny G has "exceptional taste."  What you might want to say is that
you think that John Zorn has similar taste to yours.  The next issue is
references in music and what that means about the musician.  I don' know
John Zorn, but some of the musicians whose music I deeply respect have taste
radically different than mine regardless of what influences show in their
music.  I am reminded of a  musician who I particularly liked whose record
collection was almost entirely country music.  What *he created* was
radically different, and showed radically different influences, from what he
was interested in when not creating.

For the same reason, I disagree with the statement that taste dictates who
someone works with.  A lot of people who are on or would have been on this
list were extremely surprised when Henry Threadgill chose to have David
Sanborn play with him.  And the interesting thing about it was that
Threadgill was able to find something inside of Sanborn that none of us who
commented on it (myself included) had ever been able to see in Sanborn.  And
it is important to note that Threadgill probably made a better album by
choosing someone that resonated with what he was trying to do rather than
someone that would fit any pattern.

OK, end of diatribe.


Jeff Spirer
http://www.hyperreal.com/axiom/
Axiom Records/Material Communications


------------------------------

From: Todd Bramy <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 20:19:25 -0800
Subject: Kang's CD/Horvitz show

Eyvind Kang's "Sweetness of Sickness". I've heard it. One person said to me
that this release has given many people reason to believe that Kang was
borne of the the belly of the beast. This became much clearer to me after
listening. Kang makes the mostly sweetly disturbing sounds on the violin
I've ever heard. Ever since I first saw him with Zorn a few years ago in a
cobra here in Seattle, I've sung his praises. I looked forward to his full
length release, to help me articulate to others what a great player he is.
But the playing I know him for is scarce on this release. Instead, layers
of wrenching electric noises, short bursts of mania, and "I can't believe
that's a violin" sounds dominate. There will be much written about this
release, I assure you.

I saw Kang play this last Saturday at the OK Hotel here in Seattle, as a
player in Wayne Horvitz's latest "four-and-one ensemble".  Here is the
lineup:
Wayne Horvitz: piano, electronics
Eyvind Kang: violin
Julian Priester: trombone
Reggie Watts: keyboards
Tucker Martine: electronics & processing

With my musical articulation ending somewhere around "the show was great, I
was floored", I hope one of my more musical Seattle brothers will review
this show with more insight. Hello?

Todd

`````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
"One doesn't discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore
for a very long time."
Andre Gide
`````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
Kick Media
Todd & Camarie Bramy            http://www.oz.net/~tbramy
Seattle, Wa                               [e-mail]
`````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````



------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (keefe j murren)
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 23:27:31 -0500
Subject: Henry Hills/JZ

Hey guys,
    I've got two questions.

1 Can anyone provide some information on Hills? When did he start? what
else has he done?

2 On Saturday night, Hills introduced his first film as "the MTV video" I
didn't know exactly what he ment. On the next two he told who the patron
was (JZ and himself respectively--Osaka Bondage and Igneous Ejaculation).
What's the scoop?

OK i have a third. Has Zorn commissioned any other films besides Osaka Bondage?

Keefe



------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Herb Levy)
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 20:26:22 -0800
Subject: Re: New Eyvind Kang album?

>Has Eyvind Kang made a cd called "Sweetness Of Sickness"?

yes

>Has anybody heard it?

yes

It's primarily solo (though often overdubbed);

more consistently noise improv oriented than the Tzadik disc'

looks very good, though the alternative (non-jewel box) packaging is a
little too small for getting the disc out very easily;


It's on Rabid God Incubator; their address is P O Box 20664, Seattle, WA  98145



Herb Levy
[e-mail]



------------------------------

From: David Newgarden <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 04:22:14 -0500 (EST)
Subject: masada 4

I heard that Masada 4 was coming out as a 100-record 78 rpm set with a few
seconds on each side.

------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (David FENECH)
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 97 10:34:02 +0100
Subject: Re: Henry Hills

  > OK i have a third. Has Zorn commissioned any other films besides Osaka Bondage?
  >

I don't know. But there is a new french band who plays improvised
things with elcetronics (it sounds a little bit like VOICE CRACK)
and their name is OSAKA BONDAGE. I saw them live last year and it
was quite good impro (not AMM , but some excellent parts).

They have issued a tape, and will soon release a LP on a french label
called NUMERO ZERO AUDIO. I can give you more details if you want.

david FENECH - One man band


------------------------------

From: Scott Russell <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 10:09:51 +0000
Subject: Re: hobah/Leng T'che

> A while ago the thought struck me that one could compose a song that consisted entirely of different endings.

Jascha

Isn't this what Neil Young did with Arc-Weld? I haven't heard it,
unfortunately, but the extra disc which came with the initial release
of the Weld live album apparently contained a 25 minute collage of
feedback endings from live performances. This sounds very like your
idea.

Scott Russell

------------------------------

From: Scott Russell <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 12:49:37 +0000
Subject: Re: FAQ addition

Caleb Deupree wrote:
>
> I think the attached discussion of Haino's work is worthy of inclusion in
> the FAQ, as I wondered about the same thing myself ...

How about an archive of short reviews? I don't know how we would
maintain this but I, for one, would find it quite valuable to read
opinions about hard to get albums.

Further to this, is anyone interested in swapping live tapes or am I
offending people?

Scott Russell.

------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 08:26:20 -0800
Subject: Re: New Eyvind Kang album?

On Mon, 3 Feb 1997 20:26:22 -0800  Herb Levy wrote:
>
> >Has Eyvind Kang made a cd called "Sweetness Of Sickness"?
>
> yes
>
> >Has anybody heard it?
>
> yes
>
> It's primarily solo (though often overdubbed);
>
> more consistently noise improv oriented than the Tzadik disc'
>
> looks very good, though the alternative (non-jewel box) packaging is a
> little too small for getting the disc out very easily;
>
>
> It's on Rabid God Incubator; their address is P O Box 20664, Seattle, WA  98145
            ^^^^^^^^^

Inoculator :-).

    Patrice.

------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 08:30:09 -0800
Subject: Re: masada 4

On Tue, 4 Feb 1997 04:22:14 -0500 (EST)  David Newgarden wrote:
>
>
> I heard that Masada 4 was coming out as a 100-record 78 rpm set with a few
> seconds on each side.

Only 100?

I would have prefered the Mystic Fugu Orchestra on 78RPM :-).

    Patrice.

------------------------------

From: Torsten Nielsen <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 18:16:38 +0100 (MET)
Subject: Derek and The Ruins

Derek Bailey and The Ruins will be playing in London April 3. Where can I
get tickets? Where will they be playing?

ANY help would be appreciated!

Jonas

------------------------------

From: N Vassiliou <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 23:27:17 GMT
Subject: Re: Derek and The Ruins

> Derek Bailey and The Ruins will be playing in London April 3. Where can I
> get tickets? Where will they be playing?
>
> ANY help would be appreciated!
>
> Jonas

Is this true?Where did you hear it?

Nick V.



------------------------------

From: Larry Solomon <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 17:09:10 -0700
Subject: Archery

Does anyone here know if Archery has been released yet on CD? If so, how
can I get a copy? I have the old LP version and think that it is one of
Zorn's best works. I'd sure like to hear it on CD.
- --

Best!

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
Larry Solomon
The Center for the Arts            http://www.AzStarNet.com/~solo
Tucson, AZ
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 16:19:53 -0800
Subject: Re: Archery

On Tue, 04 Feb 1997 17:09:10 -0700  Larry Solomon wrote:
>
> Does anyone here know if Archery has been released yet on CD? If so, how
> can I get a copy? I have the old LP version and think that it is one of
> Zorn's best works. I'd sure like to hear it on CD.

Not yet.

    Patrice.

------------------------------

From: Christopher Hamilton <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 19:49:21 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Henry Hills/JZ

On Mon, 3 Feb 1997, keefe j murren wrote:

> 1 Can anyone provide some information on Hills? When did he start? what
> else has he done?

I didn't take notes when I saw Hills presenting some of his work a couple
of years ago in Pittsburgh, but as I recall the earliest work dated back
to the late 70's and was done in California.  The early stuff included a
cutup of a guy speaking and some wonderfully meditative (my reaction)
speed collages of fairly static landscapes and cityscapes.  Later works
included a promotional cutup for Elektra reminiscent of John Oswald's
stuff, and a recent piece on Bali, which frankly struck me as
condescending, like something put together by a tourist board for rich
Western tourists.  But it may have been intended ironically.  The high
point was a speed collage from ca. 1985 of various Manhattan scenes
including seconds-long footage of a number of improvisers including Arto
Lindsay, Derek Bailey, and David Moss playing sheet metal at a crowd of
bemused onlookers.  Aside from the celebrity factor, this piece was
fascinating and headspinning.  Sorry I don't remember titles.

> 2 On Saturday night, Hills introduced his first film as "the MTV video" I
> didn't know exactly what he ment. On the next two he told who the patron
> was (JZ and himself respectively--Osaka Bondage and Igneous Ejaculation).
> What's the scoop?

Again trusting to my spotty recollection, the MTV video was "Gotham".  It
was made for MTV play, and shown on that blessed channel only once.
"Osaka Bondage" was commissioned by Zorn, presumably for his private
amusement and the kinds of gallery-type showings you and I saw.  Hills did
"Igneous Ejaculation" on his own initiative as a gift for Zorn.  There's
another film not presented as a video, but using as a soundtrack Zorn's
Weill arrangement from _Lost in the Stars_.  It's sort of a colorful,
subdued dance piece.

Note: My memory is very bad at times, and I wouldn't bet on the accuracy
of any of the above.  Anyone who knows better should jump in and soundly
slap me down.

Chris Hamilton
[e-mail]



------------------------------

From: Christopher Hamilton <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 19:53:09 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Horvitz show, Julian Priester

On Mon, 3 Feb 1997, Todd Bramy wrote:

> I saw Kang play this last Saturday at the OK Hotel here in Seattle, as a
> player in Wayne Horvitz's latest "four-and-one ensemble".  Here is the
> lineup:
> Wayne Horvitz: piano, electronics
> Eyvind Kang: violin
> Julian Priester: trombone
> Reggie Watts: keyboards
> Tucker Martine: electronics & processing

Seeing Julian Priester's name in this lineup is a very pleasant surprise.
Is he living in Seattle now?  Is this an ongoing band?  Will this lineup
be recording?  Inquiring minds want to know...

Chris Hamilton
[e-mail]



------------------------------

From: Christopher Hamilton <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 20:09:49 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Zorn book blurb

On Mon, 3 Feb 1997, Jeff Spirer wrote:

> This gets into the concept that context is important to understanding art, a
> concept that I believe originated with the intellectual elite-ization of
> art.  In fact, art that is "great" transcends all reference points, all
> context, all social boundaries, and that is its greatness.  It brings people
> together regardless of where they started and where they end up.

I sort of agree with Jeff here, but I thought I'd say a word or two in
defense of those darned intellectual elitists.  Art can be understood in
many different ways.  One way you might want to understand a piece of art
is in terms of its context (or one of its contexts: personal,
art-historical, social, whatever).  In that case, obviously context is
useful.  But there are plenty of other ways to understand art that
don't require any knowledge of context.  Art critics often like to talk
about context, I'd guess, because it's much easier to say something
about that than to really get inside the work.  One of the things
distinctive about great (I won't put it in quotes) art is that the process
of understanding it just goes on forever.  It's bigger than anything we
can say about it, and so we can talk about it forever, or just sit there
and bask in its power.

End of defense. 8^)

Chris Hamilton
[e-mail]



------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 17:17:58 -0800
Subject: Re: Horvitz show, Julian Priester

On Tue, 4 Feb 1997 19:53:09 -0500 (EST)  Christopher Hamilton wrote:
>
>
>
> On Mon, 3 Feb 1997, Todd Bramy wrote:
>
> > I saw Kang play this last Saturday at the OK Hotel here in Seattle, as a
> > player in Wayne Horvitz's latest "four-and-one ensemble".  Here is the
> > lineup:
> > Wayne Horvitz: piano, electronics
> > Eyvind Kang: violin
> > Julian Priester: trombone
> > Reggie Watts: keyboards
> > Tucker Martine: electronics & processing
>
> Seeing Julian Priester's name in this lineup is a very pleasant surprise.

In fact Julian has been playing with Horvitz for a while (I saw him the
New York Composers Orchestra a couple years ago).

> Is he living in Seattle now?  Is this an ongoing band?  Will this lineup
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Yes.

> be recording?  Inquiring minds want to know...

Yep. This is all I know for the moment:

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*** - ???: Wayne Horvitz

  Wayne Horvitz: piano; Julian Priester: trombone; Eyvind Kang: violin; Tucker
  Martin: live processing; Reggie Watts: keyboards.

    1997 - Intuition (Germany), ??? (CD)

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In fact, after a very quiet 1996 year, many records with Horvitz are announced
in the near future:

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*** - ZONY MASH: Wayne Horvitz

  Wayne Horvitz: Hammond B3 organ; Tim Young: guitar; Fred Chalenor: bass;
  Andy Roth: drums.

    1997 - Knitting Factory Works (USA), KFW 201 (CD)

  Note: not released yet.

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*** - NOTORIOUS: Bill Frisell

    Recorded in Nashville

    1997 - Nonesuch (USA), ??? (CD)

  Note: not released yet.

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If all the tracks of the Zony Mash are like the one on NEW YORK DOWNTOWN (new
compilation from Knitting Factory Works), I am looking for it with hardly
contended impatience!!!!

There are few others, but still uncertain about the release date.

    Patrice.

------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 20:36:51 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re:Archery

isn't archery planned for rerelease in tzadik's upcoming parachute years
3CD set?

- -a.

------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 17:52:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: skopelitis

Hello.  This actually doesn't relate to zorn.  Bill laswell does a lot of
work with nicky skopelitis, and produced an album of his called "next to
nothing" in 1989 on virgin records.  I was wondering if anyone had a copy
that they'd be willing to record.  Even better if anyone knows where I
could find it (I'm just assuming it's out of print).  Thanks
Josh Martin
[e-mail]

------------------------------

From: Jeff Spirer <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 20:04:37 -0800
Subject: Re: skopelitis

At 05:52 PM 2/4/97 -0800, [e-mail] wrote:
>Hello.  This actually doesn't relate to zorn.  Bill laswell does a lot of
>work with nicky skopelitis, and produced an album of his called "next to
>nothing" in 1989 on virgin records.  I was wondering if anyone had a copy
>that they'd be willing to record.  Even better if anyone knows where I
>could find it (I'm just assuming it's out of print).  Thanks

Downtown Music Gallery in NYC carries this CD in its re-release on Caroline.
I think it is out of print again, but it was in print just a few years ago,
and the last time I was there, they told me that they could get copies.
There was also vinyl available on this and that occasionally surfaces used.

They can be reached at [e-mail] or by calling 212 directory assistance.


Jeff Spirer
http://www.hyperreal.com/axiom/
Axiom Records/Material Communications


------------------------------

End of zorn-list Digest V2 #60
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