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zorn-list Digest         Thursday, 30 January 1997     Volume 02 : Number 057

In this issue:

    Zorn at Carnegie Hall
    Re: Zorn at Carnegie Hall
    Carnegie Hall
    Paris 1992 concert
    Re: University: a big waste of time
    Re: Zorn a fake?
    Zorn at KF
    serpentine
    masada 4 - now available?
    Re: masada 4 - now available?
    Re:Serpentine
    Re:Serpentine
    Re:Serpentine
    bungle list/zorn-mori-patton/help
    Re: Carnegie Hall
    Re: Zorn at KF
    Re: Carnegie Hall
    Requia for Piano and Orchestra @ Carnegie
    ribot
    Re: ribot
    Re: Daves Sanctuary

See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the zorn-list
or zorn-list-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 21:34:30 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Zorn at Carnegie Hall

Did anybody out there see the Carnegie Hall debut of ZORN, FRISELL, JOEY
BARON, etc??  They played a couple of Sundays ago, and the was some sort of
lecture before the show.  I am really curious.

[e-mail]

------------------------------

From: "Yeah-shure, Nah...er...ve'-so'n" <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 22:34:17 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Zorn at Carnegie Hall

> Did anybody out there see the Carnegie Hall debut of ZORN, FRISELL, JOEY
> BARON, etc??  They played a couple of Sundays ago, and the was some sort of
> lecture before the show.  I am really curious.

Carnegie hall?!?

- -jascha


------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (keefe j murren)
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 01:08:51 -0500
Subject: Carnegie Hall

Sorry if this is long, but...

I saw the performance at carnegie hall on january 12. If i could find the
play bill i would post exactly what was performed, but perhaps someone else
can provide that. Of the pieces played however, zorn's was the most
interesting.

It was concieved as a requiem for 7 different people who have ment
something to him. He mentioned a few in the pre-performance discussion:John
Cassavetes, marlene dietrich, his dad, francis bacon,and three others.
(again perhaps someone else can fill in the blanks). The performance was
given by the American Composers Orchestra and zorn's work was comissioned
by Stephen Drury--the pianist who performed it.

The first piece played was written by a professor at Princeton named Mackey
and involved Joey Baron and Bill Frisell improvising against fixed
orchestra arrangements. Frankly speaking i was unimpressed by the piece as
a whole. There were points where the groove was pretty cool and as always
Joey Baron stole the show--even from Frisell. Frisell seemed preocupied
with switches and knobbs though he had some truly lyrical passages. All in
all, I would have prefered to hear Frisell and Baron blow minus the
orchestra.

THe next piece was by a composer named Sessions that I don't remember well
enough to comment except that i wasn't really moved by it. then there was a
Low Harrison arrangement of a John Cage piece for Toy Piano and finally
zorn's Requia For Piano and Orchestra.

Zorn's piece was at least exciting and at best truly compelling. It
employed a lot of extended techniques like bowing cymbals and claping
hands. He had boy sapranos for the Francis Bacon section and brought the
percusionists out for the section devoted i believe to a flamenco dancer
whose name i can't recall. The piano parts were amazing and stephen Drury
was incredible. He danced all over the keyboard in lightning fast bursts.
(He wore an oversize white sport jacket and white slacks plus some white
tennis shoes and a wacky tie). Zorn said his approach to orchestration and
composition when writing for orchestra was to treat the ensemble as a
potential group of smaller ensembles or chamber groups. He had various
members of the orchestra playing with each other at various points in the
piece even employing duos and solos. He also wrote out all the parts. As
far as i could gather there was no improvisation. He didn't directly say
that Drury was not at all imporivising though i got the idea that his part
was completely written out as well. The piece was deffinately good. As a
whole it was slow and contemplative. Zorn deffinately got reactions of
excitement from the crowd. I would like to hear more from zorn in this
department.

- --By the way does anybody know anything about zorn's other compositions
commissioned by Drury? Are they available?

i hope this helps.

keefe



------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Jacques Oger)
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 11:33:08 +0100
Subject: Paris 1992 concert

I was there.
I mean the Paris 1992 concert everybody is talking about (Houdini-De Sade).
It took place on april, 22.
In fact it was not in Paris but very near : in Saint-Ouen (a town in the
proletarian suburbs, we call it "the red belt or red suburbs" because many
inhabitants vote for the communist party) during a festival called "Blue
Suburbs" :-).
This always lasting festival is sponsorized by the mayors of several towns
of this suburb (all of them are communists). But most of people who are
attending the concerts come from Paris. Especially for this Zorn concert.
So we can say that taxes paid by the workers in these poor towns are used
to organize concerts for the rich parisian people. I hope some other french
guys are reading this message, maybe they don't agree with this a little
provocative point of view, just let me know, directly if you want.
Well, what to say about this concert ? Of course it was very provocative.
Patrice gave some details. The videos (musicians on stage couldn't see
them) on 2 little TV sets (JZ asked bigger ones, but it was refused) showed
lesbianism/SM and scatology. JZ wanted all people to leave the concert. It
didn't occur. On the first rows, there were (near the videos) the official
guests : the mayor of the city, people with great responsabilities in the
culture ministery government, sponsors VIPs=8A So you understand why there
was some trouble in the air !
To my point of view, at this time, I would prefer the music played live by
Naked City.
The musicians were :
A. Lindsay (voice, readings), B. Frisell (guit), F. Frith (bass), Anthony
Coleman and Steve Dury (synth), W. Winant (perc), J. Baron (dms), Mike
Patton (screams). John Zorn didn'play at all. Maybe he was tired because he
had played just before (first part with Painkiller - B. Laswell, M.
Harris).
The trio (BF,FF,JB) finished the concert with the piece called "Leng
Tch'e". That was good (easy listening).
I was told that some musician(s) on stage didn't know about the porn
videos. It's hard to believe, but who knows ?

So JZ has a provocative reputation in Paris and France.
Of course, His last concert (with Masada) was very different.

=46or people who like to read french, there is a good article in "Le Monde"
(issued on january 27 1997) about the true story of Masada.

Jacques







------------------------------

From: DANIEL BITTON <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 12:25:16 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: University: a big waste of time

Music at university is a pretty retarded concept, at least the way it's
done most places.  You take a bunch of unrelated courses that attack you
with different knowledge from five different places at once instead of
developing them all in an integrated manner, but for me as a self-taught
musician it's been important for me to take some courses just to see what
I need to teach myself, and how not to teach it to myself. I mean if
you're trying to be an improviser you've gotta spend all day sitting
around lifting solos off records and blowing your own solos, learning how
to hear and how to familiarize yourself with your instrument enough so
that your hands say what your brain thinks before you're even aware of it
so it's like you hands are doing the thinking.  It's like developing a
second mouth.  Theory and harmony are important, but the best way to
learn them is to dissect whatever thing you happen to be passionately in
love with and studying on your horn that way you're just putting names on
concepts that your ear already hears. That way if you're studying a solo
of a tune that makes you cry you're learning technique and therory al at
the same time in an integrated manner.
    School tends to throw you the harmony vs the technique from
completely different almost unrelated angles and you absorb them all at
once working on assignments for each subject instead of one assignment or
study integrating all subjects, so you don't
get the time to focus or digest until later which doesn't allow for
developing your own voice and methods of thinking and hearing, which is
what being an imporviser in the jazzthing gerne is all about.
    Yusef Lateef says something like (I'm quoting from memory)
My goal as a teacher is to provide students with certain ideas and
concepts so as to motivate them to teach themselves what they desire to know.
Ain't he hip?

------------------------------

From: Peter Risser <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 97 13:46:42 -0500
Subject: Re: Zorn a fake?

- -- [ From: Peter Risser * EMC.Ver #2.5.03 ] --

I know it's a late entry, but still, the feeling is the same.

The question here is, is Zorn a fake, not is he good or bad.  The answer
lies in the definition of fake.  Fake, I assume, means someone who is
pretending to be someone he is not.  This does not apply to Zorn.  I don't
think he has ever represented himself as anyone besides a guy who loves
music.  And to this end, I think he is very real.  Whether he is a good or
bad player, is irrelevant at that point.

Milli Vanilli were fakes.
John Zorn, not a fake.

In the meantime,
Peter

- --
=====================
Group 42, Inc.
www.group42.com
[phone]
=====================


------------------------------

From: Matt Walsh <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 97 18:09:00 PST
Subject: Zorn at KF

>Feb. 1 The Short Films of Henry Hills
>Naked City videos: Gotham, Osaka Bondage, Ignaceous Ejaculation
>        plus Heretic and The Little Lieutenant of the Loving God
>        (All Zorn soundtracks, though Zorn himself isn't expected to
show.)
>Feb. 9 Painkiller (with Ted Epstein subbing for Mick Harris)
>Feb 21 Zorn and Yamataka Eye (that's evidently the new "official"
spelling
>of Eye's name, Zorn spelled it out very slowly for me...)
>March 2 Zorn and Arto Lindsay (on a bill with Mainliner and Ruins)

Does anyone from the Philadelphia (or Jersey - on the way) area plan (or
interested) in going to any of these? I'd love to go, but never being in
NYC makes me leary of driving there. Respond to me privately.

Also, is there anyway for us to obtain these short films?

Matt Walsh
[e-mail]

------------------------------

From: SUGAR in their vitamins? <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 20:02:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: serpentine

the Hans Bennick (sp?) and Dave Douglas
album was just reviewed on NPR tonight.
sounds excellent. is this the one that
was released on SoulNote a few months
ago which was so difficult to find?

hasta.

Yes.  Beautiful, wonderful nature.  Hear it sing to us: *snap*  Yes.  natURE.


------------------------------

From: hywel davies <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 11:29:45 -0800
Subject: masada 4 - now available?

i don't want to get your hopes up but feb.'s issue of 'the wire' has an
ad from depth charge records ([e-mail]) offering MASADA
4 for sale - anybody any news?!

------------------------------

From: N Vassiliou <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 14:18:36 GMT
Subject: Re: masada 4 - now available?

> i don't want to get your hopes up but feb.'s issue of 'the wire' has an
> ad from depth charge records ([e-mail]) offering MASADA
> 4 for sale - anybody any news?!

is that Depth Charge Records in York, UK? I go there quite often and I haven't noticed anything...

Nick V...



------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Lisa Given)
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 09:31:10 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re:Serpentine

Serpentine is on Songlines, the small Canadian label that also released the
first Tiny Bell disc.

It is a great album.  Finally, a recording session which comes close to
capturing Bennink's energy.  Having seen him a couple of times, I am always
disappointed with recordings of him (not that they aren't good, but he
always seems more subdued than on stage).  Serpentine, recorded in a studio,
has him ranging from his array of tiny percussive things to some of the best
all out bashing I have heard him do.  I recommend this disc to anyone.

Dan


------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Tony Reif)
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 11:56:55 +0000
Subject: Re:Serpentine

>Serpentine is on Songlines, the small Canadian label that also released the
>first Tiny Bell disc.
>
>It is a great album.  Finally, a recording session which comes close to
>capturing Bennink's energy.  Having seen him a couple of times, I am always
>disappointed with recordings of him (not that they aren't good, but he
>always seems more subdued than on stage).  Serpentine, recorded in a studio,
>has him ranging from his array of tiny percussive things to some of the best
>all out bashing I have heard him do.  I recommend this disc to anyone.
>
>Dan

Not to mention some really nice brushwork on a couple of old standards...

Since this small Canadian label has been lurking on Zorn-list for some
months, maybe it's time to say hello. And if I could put in a plug for some
other fine artists such as Ellery Eskelin, Ben Monder, Andy Laster, BABKAS,
Patrick Zimmerli (whose Slines CD Kevin Whitehead reviewed on Fresh Air in
November), Paul Plimley, Human Feel, Rob Reddy, Francois Houle, who all
have CDs on Slines....

Anyone who'd like more info can email me offlist for a descriptive catalog
and/or bibliography by artist of reviews etc.

Two more things. The Plimley disc is an ECD and may be of interest to
musicians on the list who are working with non-traditional grooves. The
CD-ROM portion, which btw has won a bunch of important multimedia awards,
includes a piece called Rhythm Runes with specific directions for rehearsal
and small-group performance and an interactive demo.

There's also an introductory compilation out, The Songlines Anthology,
which includes otherwise unreleased takes and sessions of most of the
Slines artists and some guests. It's not just a thrown together sampler
though and has been getting really good reviews. As our CDs may be hard to
find currently in the stores (although our new distributor, Allegro, should
be getting them out there starting in a couple of weeks), I'd like to make
the following special offer to anyone on the list: order 2 Songlines CDs
and get the sampler free. Or, if you just want to hear the Anthology for
now, send me $10 and I'll apply the savings to a future order of two or
more CDs.

Tony Reif (Songlines Recordings)



------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Lisa Given)
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 15:15:40 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re:Serpentine

>Since this small Canadian label has been lurking on Zorn-list for some
>months, maybe it's time to say hello. And if I could put in a plug for some
>other fine artists such as Ellery Eskelin, Ben Monder, Andy Laster, BABKAS,
>Patrick Zimmerli (whose Slines CD Kevin Whitehead reviewed on Fresh Air in
>November), Paul Plimley, Human Feel, Rob Reddy, Francois Houle, who all
>have CDs on Slines....

I didn't know yopu were on this list Tony, or would have left the
description of Serpentine to you.

As for the rest of the label (I think I have all the releases) all are
exceptional.  There are none which I wouldn't recommend to anyone on this
list, or anyone interested in the current state of jazz/improvised music.
The standout for me, alongside Serpentine, is the Ellery Eskelin disc.  If
anyone is interested in taking advantage of Tony's deal of buying two and
getting the sampler free, I would recommend Serpentine and the Eskelin as a
great intro to one of the best labels around (a little Canadian pride coming
through here :)).

And the sampler is the best buy I have heard of for a label compilation, as
the material is all unavailable elsewhere.  Worth having if only for the 10
minute Tiny Bell track.

Dan


------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Stefan Negele)
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 97 23:03:11 MEZ
Subject: bungle list/zorn-mori-patton/help

> Does anyone have the address for the Mr Bungle list?

There's one official one (where Trey Spruance sends out any infos on his
current projects) write to   [e-mail]  to get on that one.

and there's that Caca Volante mailing list, which also features Faith No
More, John Zorn or basically any related.  the address for that one is
"[e-mail]"   (as usual with Majordomo, send "s ubscribe cv-list"
to that address to get on the list. WARNING: It's pretty much screwed up at
the moment, means we get double posts and shit like that, hopefully someone
fixes that pretty soon.

Saw john Zorn jan 17 with Ikue Mori and Mike Patton @ Slim's in SF. It was
an 'okay show'. I got somehow the feeling that they were just goofing around
and just doing some stuff to kill some time. Ikue Mori created some awesome
effects with.. ummm.. whatever she had. a drum machine or something. I
couldn't see that thing and she was barely moving. just sitting there and
pressing some buttons. Patton as usual just screamed and created some sound
effects with his little keyboard and feed back box. it gets pretty redundant
after seeing that a couple of times. John zorn again.. hate to say it..
'as usual' added a little sax squeak here and a little improv scream there.
the only amazing thing he did was a 10min straight sax solo towards the end
of the second set. he tried to tell the soundboard guy to turn up the volume
before he started it and the next time he could talk to someone or give
instructions was 10 mins later.  the encore had just patton putting a tape in
and adding some keyboards meldies to it. after that a bunch of quiet giggeling
emerging into a load scream and some noise. also the good old feedback thing
was there, before the show ended. all in all I wasn't that excited about it
and being able to compare such a thing I'd prefer the Slusser/Patton/Bennink
thing I saw last august in Saalfelden (Austria). that one was way more
listenable, but then again.. listenable doesn't automatically mean good.
oh well..

Finally, I'd like to get more info on Zorn shows from the past. I'm doing
this database thing with Faith No More and Mr.Bungle (live shows reviews
and setlist and whatever else there is) at  http://cv.org/database  and
as you might see there's also a John Zorn section. I know there are many
other Zorn pages on the net but I haven't seen one who covers that live stuff,
so anyone who wants to be a part of that thing send setlists/show dates
reviews of shows or whatever else you want to share about John Zorn to me
and I'll add it to the database. I appreciate your help. Thanks for reading.

Stefan

- --
EMail:        [e-mail]  [e-mail]
WWW:   http://munich.netsurf.de/Stefan.Negele  http://cv.org/database



------------------------------

From: "Yeah-shure, Nah...er...ve'-so'n" <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 17:44:22 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Carnegie Hall

the description of this show sounds really interesting...are there any
plans to immortalise this musical creation on little shiney plastic discs?
That's probably the only way i could hear it.

- -jascha


------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Steve Smith)
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 18:50:22 -0500
Subject: Re: Zorn at KF

Matt Walsh wrote:

>>Feb. 9 Painkiller (with Ted Epstein subbing for Mick Harris)

>Does anyone from the Philadelphia (or Jersey - on the way) area plan (or
>interested) in going to any of these?

I know I posted this once before, but just to be VERY certain since I got a
call from someone planning to drive in from Atlantic City... the Painkiller
gig is definitely off, Laswell wasn't available.  As soon as I know what
Zorn will be doing that day I'll post it.

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Smith
Public Relations Manager
Knitting Factory / Knitting Factory Works
74 Leonard St., New York, NY 10013 [phone] ext. 22
[e-mail]
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------



------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Steve Smith)
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 18:50:13 -0500
Subject: Re: Carnegie Hall

>the description of this show sounds really interesting...are there any
>plans to immortalise this musical creation on little shiney plastic discs?
>That's probably the only way i could hear it.
>
>-jascha

Couldn't tell you about the Mackey piece, although I know Nonesuch has no
plans for it at the present (they've already got Frisell's next two albums
in the can, the next one being the "notorious" country music album recorded
with Wayne Horvitz in Nashville).  The Zorn piano and orchestra piece is
being recorded (or perhaps was recorded live) for Tzadik.  Probably won't
be released before fall or later, my guess.

Frisell fans, by the way, should pick up the new issue of GQ (!) for a
pretty great Frisell article.  And if that sounds bizarre, wait till you
see the upcoming William Parker feature in Esquire (!!!).

Steve

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Smith
Public Relations Manager
Knitting Factory / Knitting Factory Works
74 Leonard St., New York, NY 10013 [phone] ext. 22
[e-mail]
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------



------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (keefe j murren)
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 19:24:00 -0500
Subject: Requia for Piano and Orchestra @ Carnegie

On Tuesday Jan. 28 Jascha wrote in reference to the Carnegie Hall piece:

>are there any plans to immortalise this musical creation on little shiney
>>plastic discs?
>That's probably the only way i could hear it.

An article on Stephen Drury the New YOrk Times said that the concert at
Carnegie Hall of Zorn's Requia for Piano and Orchestra was being recorded
for Avant. I'm clueless as to the expected release date though past
experience with Avant makes me sceptical about it ever being released (New
Traditions).

keefe



------------------------------

From: Josh Miller <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 01:44:56 -0800
Subject: ribot

this may sound like a stupid question, but could anyone tell me how to
pronounce marc ribot's last name? see, i do this little college radio
show and i want to play stuff from the rootless cosmopolitans record,
but it's pretty embarassing when you don't know how to pronounce a name.
i'd appreciate it if someone could help me out. thanks a lot.

    josh

------------------------------

From: "M.Ho" <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 97 9:45:14 EST
Subject: Re: ribot

It's pronounced "ree-bo".
>
> this may sound like a stupid question, but could anyone tell me how to
> pronounce marc ribot's last name? see, i do this little college radio
> show and i want to play stuff from the rootless cosmopolitans record,
> but it's pretty embarassing when you don't know how to pronounce a name.
> i'd appreciate it if someone could help me out. thanks a lot.
>
>     josh
>

------------------------------

From: "M.Ho" <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 97 12:53:40 EST
Subject: Re: Daves Sanctuary

>
> I saw the performance of this (the first?) on December 27th, 1995, when this
> group opened for Masada.  I thought it was incredible.  The drummer was
> Dougie Bowne, and he was wild!  James Genus played upright bass.  I wish I
> had a recording of it, because I cant really recall any specifics about it,
> but I liked it!
>
>
>
 I am crazy about Dougie Bowne's drumming. Does anyone know what he's
been up to for the past several years?  All I have is stuff he did
with John Lurie and the Lounge Lizards and also Kazutoki Umezu.
- -Mary

------------------------------

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