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Subject:   zorn-list Digest V2 #36
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zorn-list Digest         Tuesday, 26 November 1996     Volume 02 : Number 036

In this issue:

    Re: zorn-list Digest V2 #35
    In Memoriam Gilles Deleuze
    Ocean of Sound
    Re: Ocean of Sound
    Re: In Memoriam Gilles Deleuze
    Re: (Zorns film music)
    ReL drum and bass
    Re: Ocean of Sound
    Re: MTV Clifford Ball Special review
    Ambient & Paint
    Frith on Zorn (very long)
    Re: In Memoriam Gilles Deleuze
    Re: Baron's ear protection
    hard to find
    Re: a few comments on recent list-events
    Seigen Ono
    Re: MTV Clifford Ball Special review--uh, whoops
    Re: Seigen Ono
    Re: a few comments on recent list-events
    Re: Seigen Ono
    Re: Seigen Ono

See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the zorn-list
or zorn-list-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (star leigh wall)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 11:09:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: zorn-list Digest V2 #35

>>Zorn has not performed with Mr. Bungle at any shows on the Disco Volante
>>tour (nor in the past to my knowledge).

>Er, is this correct? I think I remember postings to this list noting at
>least a couple of SF Bungle shows with Zorn. And I believe Zorn goes
>uncredited on the Mr. Bungle debut, playing on "Love is a Fist" (am I
>right?).

i should clarify that i mean 'performed' as in live bungle shows.  as far
as i know, zorn did play on love is a fist on the album, and bungle members
have definitely played with zorn at various live shows, but not bungle
shows.



------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 21:38:18 -0500
Subject: In Memoriam Gilles Deleuze

This is a bit off-topic but i've been trying to find an electronica
compilation called In Memoriam Gilles Deleuze released by the German label
Milles Plateaux.  Several mail-order companies have it in their catalog but
are currently sold out and say there's some kind of distributor difficulties
that'll take some time to resolve.  Does anybody know where i can get it?

Thanks,
Lang Thompson
http://members.aol.com/wlt4/index.htm

------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 21:47:48 -0500
Subject: Ocean of Sound

The compilation album is great though a bit hard to find; almost as good is
Toop's companion Crooning on Venus which focuses on the voice.  However, i'm
really posting because i think most people on this list would really like the
book, which i think is destined to be a milestone.  Toop is a perceptive
critic with wide tastes so he's able to draw (in a nicely understated way) a
lot of connections.  The book is published in the US by Serpent's Tail which
you probably can order even through a chain bookstore.

Best, Lang Thompson
http://members.aol.com/wlt4/index.htm

------------------------------

From: Christopher Hamilton <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 01:22:59 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Ocean of Sound

On Sat, 23 Nov 1996 [e-mail] wrote:

>  Toop is a perceptive
> critic with wide tastes so he's able to draw (in a nicely understated way) a
> lot of connections.


A bit too understated for my taste.  I thought the book was
disappointingly anecdotal.  But the anecdotes are good ones, so if that's
what you're looking for...


Chris

Chris Hamilton
Dept. of Philosophy
University of Pittsburgh
Pittsburgh, PA
USA



------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 10:02:08 -0800
Subject: Re: In Memoriam Gilles Deleuze

The In Memorium Gilles Deleuze 2cd set is great.  I had a lot of trouble
finding it, but it turned up at record store near where I live.  They
might still have it so heres their e-mail address:  [e-mail]
It's pretty expensive though, like $28.  I was looking in the Cd case for
Book of Heads and it a has Zorn discography that mentions all of these
releases with assorted sports titles, does anyone know where to get
these, or even what they are

  Thanks
 Jed
[e-mail]

[e-mail] wrote:
>
> This is a bit off-topic but i've been trying to find an electronica
> compilation called In Memoriam Gilles Deleuze released by the German label
> Milles Plateaux.  Several mail-order companies have it in their catalog but
> are currently sold out and say there's some kind of distributor difficulties
> that'll take some time to resolve.  Does anybody know where i can get it?
>
> Thanks,
> Lang Thompson
> http://members.aol.com/wlt4/index.htm

------------------------------

From: Torsten Nielsen <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 15:46:55 +0100 (MET)
Subject: Re: (Zorns film music)

On Sun, 17 Nov 1996, Kevin Neales wrote:

> I was checking out the imdb web site and ran Zorn's name.  They list a few
> movies that he has composed music for that I haven't heard of.  They are
> Thieve's Quartet, Hoelderlin Comics, Maoghai(aka Sadistic City).  Has
> anybody seen any of these movies.   Are the available on video.

Sadistic City was shown at a film festival here in Denmark, earlier this
year. I didn't see it, but I heard that it was very good, and that Zorn
soundtrack was also good, and worked well with the film.
I believe that Sadistic City is what the Japanese call a "pink movie",
which is something like softcore porn. The main character is played buy
the great japanese actor (and pop star?!?) Tomoroh Taguchi, who is also
in the two Tetsuo films, which I think Zorn likes quite a lot...
All I know about Thieves Quartet is that it was the first time Zorn
played with Baron, Douglas and Cohen as a quartet...

Has Zorn written any liner notes for Filmworks 3, 5 & 6? I think the ones
in the first Filmworks were very interesting...

Jonas

------------------------------

From: "Yeah-shure, Nah...er...ve'-so'n" <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 15:14:44 -0500 (EST)
Subject: ReL drum and bass

All this talk of d'n'b prompted me to borrow Squarepusher's "Feed Me Weird
Things" and listen to it very closely (i'd heard it before in a car, but
wasn't paying too much attention).  WOW!!!!!!!  Thank you all for bringing
this topic up, as Squarepusher is like nothing i've ever heard
before...except maybe at raves, but at the time i was prbably too busy
dancing.  It sounds vaguely like jazz drum solos played at 78 rpm, put
through an effects processor, and re-edited at random.....it sounds
strange....it sounds wonderfull......it sounds like, ahhhhhhhhhhh - music!

Actually, it sounds vaguely like other things i've heard before.  Jazz
drum solos have already been mentioned, but to my mind (and maybe only to
my mind) people who like the crazy drum sensibilities of d'n'b might
really get into solo Tabla recordings.  Zakir Hussain and Ustad
Alla Rakha have CD out on Moment Music (Zakir's label) of a live Tabla
duet recorded a few years ago.  These are two of the best Tabla players
around right now, and together they make for a dizzy listening experience.

BTW, i found Richard James' (aka Aphex Twin) liner notes to the Squarepusher
album to be amusing.  Here's some of it, for those interested:

"Someone had just gotten glassed right in front of me at the george robey
pub, Finsbury, North London, and i was thining i wish i had stayed at
home in my studio.  Oh, i might as well stay and watch the bloke with the
bass guitar who keepswandering around behing the Dj booth.  That, i
thought, is almost certainly going to be good for a laugh.  The next
thing i felt was a fuzzy vibration as momophonic sound waves that had
travelled from the other side of the room at the speed of light,
compressing the air and displacing the smoke of ten spliffs, hit me in
both ear bones simultaneously.  It was Mr. Jenkinson, who was turning my
heartbeat into the sound of a ring piece modulated resonant phaselocked
trapezoid backwards edit phlanged kick drum.  He made the sound of
ambulances turn into slide trombones and the sound of a secretary filing
her nails into a 24-piece string section.  When my partner Grant
Wilson-Clarriarge saw Tom spasmodically twitching in order to play a
funky bassline in time with a 347 bpm drum and bass track, he thought he
should either be commited or recorded...(snip)...The Squarepucher is
someone who wonders what the holes of a flute sound like without the
flute.  Sound like sound never sounded before.  Richard Rogers and Julie
Andrews gave us the sound of music, John Cage and Simon Garfunkel gave us
the sound of silence and now the Squarepusher gives us the SOUND of SOUND"

- -jascha

------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (jonathan kaye)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 23:14:38 -0500
Subject: Re: Ocean of Sound

>The compilation album is great though a bit hard to find;
>
>Best, Lang Thompson
>http://members.aol.com/wlt4/index.htm

i ordered my copy from cd universe (www.cduniverse.com) and they delivered
it within a week. a bit expensive though ($36 u.s. including shipping i
think).

jon



------------------------------

From: "Charles Gillett" <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 22:26:04
Subject: Re: MTV Clifford Ball Special review

On Sun, 24 Nov 1996 21:52:59 -0500 Ellis wrote...
>High praise from the Plattsburgh mayor,

Aw, you didn't mention the best part--the mayor walking through the
camping area saying, "I don't want to sound ignorant, but what's a nug?"

It sounded like the fans around him told him it was a kind of cookie,
but I'm not sure.


- -- Charles




------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 00:55:51 PST
Subject: Ambient & Paint

ZORN

for those of you in the New York City area, if you don't know already,
Zorn has a new piece premiering at the Knitting Factory at 8pm in the
main space, for 2 pianos, 2 violins & 2 keyboards. its called
Duras.......a composition inspired by the writings of Marguerite
Duras........

and later on downstairs............

STRAYLIGHT - an experimental ambient world music improv. trio

Geoff Gersh-guitar
Jason Finkelman-African/Brazilian percussion, voice
Charles Cohen-analog Buchla synthesizer
with performance painting by Mike Speranza
@ 11pm in the Alterknit Theater

------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 02:16:12 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Frith on Zorn (very long)


I transcribe below a translation of the statements by Fred Frith about his
collaboration with John Zorn and about improvisation music, on the occasion
of a duo concert by both at the 1988 FIMAV in Quebec (October 8, 1988).
The concert and statements were transmitted by Radio Canada and the
translation was made from a tape of that FM transmission. Because I think
that it complements very well the statements by Frith, I also transcribe
here part of the response given by John Zorn to Derek Bailey, about the
same subject matter and as published in Derek Bailey, 1993: Improvisation,
Its Nature and Practice in Music, New York: DaCapo Press (Pp. 75-76). As
Patrice has indicated in his post to the list some time ago, there seems
to be a convergence of two conceptions or, better, two ways of considering
and, ultimately, playing free improvisational music in that collaboration
between Zorn and Frith.

Before proceeding, I have three points to make here.

First of all, my apologies for taking so long to finish the translation.
However, I have been away for the last two weeks as I had to go to
Portugal for very urgent family matters. I've been now trying to
put some order in my E-mail and the thousand and one confusing things
I found waiting for me when I came back. Among them, of course, to
finish this translation: what I just did.

Secondly, I received so many requests to E-mail it when ready that I
decided, if the list-owner allows it, to post the translation to the whole
list. To do it, I reduced it as much as possible, editing out all
references with no relation to the main theme. I hope my English is
understandable -- but both the list-owner or those interested can correct
my spelling, my grammar, etc. The important thing, for me, was to
communicate the real meaning and sense of what Frith said in French about
improvisation, about Zorn, and about his collaboration with Zorn. I know
that translators are "traitors" to the original (tradottore-traidore) but
I really tried to keep the meaning of Frith's statements as close to the
original as possible

Finally, for those who requested cassettes with copies of the full tape,
that is to say including the concert by Zorn and Frith (the presenter
calls it "Nine Variations on a Theme of Improvisation"), please contact me
again to my E-mail address.

Josey
__________________________________________________________________________

*** The statements by Fred Frith (October 8, 1988):

1.

Since the first day I arrived in New York I met people who were playing
improvised music. Because I was there, I was invited to be part of a great
band mainly composed by New-Yorkers but also by some musicians from other
parts of the United States, from Alabama or from California. That band had
been put together by John Zorn

Consequently, and since my arrival at the United States, I know a little
about improvised music as played by John Zorn.

Also since then, and throughout the last eight or nine years, we have been
playing together, as a kind of free improvisation duo. This is not a
permanent or regular thing but, every year, we play various concerts
together. These concerts have now become very special occasions for
both of us.

2.

To play music which is improvised it does not seem necessarily a good idea
to make plans beforehand. This is my experience.

When I had no practice playing this type of music, particularly solo, I
used to design plans of execution before the concerts. But I
soon discovered that those plans limited my spontaneity and that the
result was not free improvised music but a kind of series of linked
musical effects (a series of effects with links between them). And they
made my music very stiff.

It was only when I became convinced not to make plans in advance that I
really started to understand and learn how to play improvisational music.

3.

I also learned a lot with John Zorn because he is someone with a very
important musical force. Nowadays he is very famous but I discovered
this much before, when he had a small group of musicians around him in
New York, those musicians who wanted to play and work with him. He was
then completely unknown, he was not yet somehow fashionable and the media
didn't even want then to hear his name.

Things are, of course, very different now. John has become very famous and
this is very good -- very good also for all those who have been around him
all those years because now they can finally have better conditions to
work with him.

4.

(About FIMAV, the Victoriaville Festival, its audience and the "excellent"
conditions it offers to modern music and its players, etc).

5.

When I play with John Zorn as an improvisational duo, there is now
a kind of communication between us that is not very easy to explain. This
is because we have been playing so often together. We don't need, anymore,
to speak about what we play or look for and try to discover what are our
common structures.

Improvised music is something that is related with intuition. But
intuition is also something that probably can be developed by improvised
music.

Stockhaussen himself has said, already twenty five years ago, that
intuition is not something that exists or comes to the musician in some
days to disappear in others. Intuition is, rather, something that we can
learn with practice. When we have experience we can make musical
decisions immediately, on the spot, without having conscience of
making them. This is what I try to achieve when I am playing.

6.

For me, the duo is the ideal formation to play free improvised music. If
one has more than two persons then it becomes very complex. On the other
hand, if one plays and improvises alone, in solo, then it becomes like
some kind of a theatrical event, a way to present oneself to the audience.
But with a duo, there is the possibility of a kind of communication which
is essential to exist all the time.

This is the type of communication I have achieved with John when we
play together. It is indeed a surprising kind of communication which,
even after all these years, always surprises me.
_________________________________________________________________________

** Statements by John Zorn: reproduced from Derek Bailey, 1993:
Improvisation, Its Nature and Practice in Music, New York: Da Capo Press
(Pp. 75-76)

"I grew up in a scene of improvisors who over the course of the years
developed personal languages on our instruments. We grew through playing
with each other, listening to all kinds of music and creating a personal
approach towards our instrument.... What I was really fascinated with
was finding a way to harness these improvisors' talents in a compositional
framework without actually hindering what they did best -- which is
improvising. An improvisor wants to have the freedom to do anything at
any time. For a composer to give an improvisor a piece of music which said
"play these melodies then improvise -- then play with this guy -- then
improvise -- then play this figure -- then play this figure -- then
improvise', to me, that was defeating the purpose of what these people had
developed, which was a very particular way of relating to their
instruments and to each other. And I was interested in those
relationships.

"I don't talk about any sounds that anybody might make, I talk about the
improvisors themselves: "you can play with this person if you choose to or
in alternation with that person. But what you play is totally up to you
and who you decide to play with is up to you"" .
_____________________________________________________________________________



------------------------------

From: john shiurba <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 23:43:30 -0700
Subject: Re: In Memoriam Gilles Deleuze

>  I was looking in the Cd case for
> Book of Heads and it a has Zorn discography that mentions all of these
> releases with assorted sports titles, does anyone know where to get
> these, or even what they are

Lacrosse is on "School"
Hockey is on "Pool"
and Archery is on "Archery"
I don't believe Fencing and Rugby have ever been released.
There are others that aren't listed, for ex. Pool and Dominos

Much of this is slated for reissue soon, on the 3cd Parachute Years thing.
- --



[e-mail]

http://www.sfo.com/~shiurba

------------------------------

From: Friedrich Feger <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 09:58:34 +0100
Subject: Re: Baron's ear protection

hi folks,

is it possible that Joey Baron suffers from Tinitus? Many of the musicians
that I know, especially drummers, have had a temporary hearing loss, and
after that nothing is like before.

Fritz Feger

------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Mark Perlson)
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 10:26:32 -0500
Subject: hard to find

I happen to know where you can find Masada 7 & the new Derek Bailey
(Guitar, Drums n Bass).  If anyone is interested, please email me directly.

Enjoy!
Peace.

Mark

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Mark Perlson
Knitting Factory Works - Label Manager
74 Leonard St  NYC 10013
ph 212-219-3006  fax [phone]

www.knittingfactory.com



------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 12:56:33 -0800
Subject: Re: a few comments on recent list-events

On Fri, 22 Nov 1996 22:28:56 -0500  Landon Thorpe wrote:
>
> star leigh wall wrote:
>
> Last thing: Jeff and Patrice, do we really want such needling by two of our
> most well-listened list-denizens?

Jeff and I have a huge intersection of musical interests. I guess, we need
sometimes to disagree :-). Don't worry, should be over now.

    Patrice.

------------------------------

From: Kurt Gottschalk <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 20:46:01 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Seigen Ono

I just picked up a used CD by Seigen Ono with no notes except for musician
listings. Beautiful stuff. Zorn is on a few tracks with Frisell and
others. Also the old Ribot/Nolet Jazz Passengers line-up and some stuff
with John Lurie, Bill Frisell, Jill Jaffe and the imcomprable tuba player
Bob Stewart. It's apparently runway music written for Commes des Garcons
(a French clothing designer or something) recorded in'97 and '89. Can
anyone give me more info on Ono? I need to know.

kurt


------------------------------

From: "Charles Gillett" <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 20:24:31
Subject: Re: MTV Clifford Ball Special review--uh, whoops

On Sun, 24 Nov 1996 22:26:04 ,
[e-mail] wrote...
<some crap having nothing to do with Zorn>

Ha.  Aren't I clever.  That was *supposed* to be a personal e-mail
to someone I know from rec.music.phish.  Ugh.  Sorry about that.

Unfortunately, I don't have anything to say about drums n bass, and
I haven't gotten any Zorn-related CDs recently so I can't talk about
those...I'm wasting your time.  Sorry.


- -- Charles




------------------------------

From: Jeff Spirer <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 21:37:31 -0800
Subject: Re: Seigen Ono

At 08:46 PM 11/25/96 -0500, Kurt Gottschalk wrote:
>I just picked up a used CD by Seigen Ono with no notes except for musician
>listings. Beautiful stuff. Zorn is on a few tracks with Frisell and
>others. Also the old Ribot/Nolet Jazz Passengers line-up and some stuff
>with John Lurie, Bill Frisell, Jill Jaffe and the imcomprable tuba player
>Bob Stewart. It's apparently runway music written for Commes des Garcons
>(a French clothing designer or something) recorded in'97 and '89. Can

Excellent music for time travel.


>anyone give me more info on Ono? I need to know.

There are two volumes of this, it was runway music, I prefer Volume 1 for no
quantifiable reason.

Jeff Spirer
http://www.hyperreal.com/axiom/
Axiom Records/Material Communications


------------------------------

From: Jeff Spirer <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 21:37:34 -0800
Subject: Re: a few comments on recent list-events

At 12:56 PM 11/25/96 -0800, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:
>
>On Fri, 22 Nov 1996 22:28:56 -0500  Landon Thorpe wrote:
>>
>> star leigh wall wrote:
>>
>> Last thing: Jeff and Patrice, do we really want such needling by two of our
>> most well-listened list-denizens?
>
>Jeff and I have a huge intersection of musical interests. I guess, we need
>sometimes to disagree :-). Don't worry, should be over now.

Certainly is.



Jeff Spirer
http://www.hyperreal.com/axiom/
Axiom Records/Material Communications


------------------------------

From: "M.Ho" <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 96 9:59:15 EST
Subject: Re: Seigen Ono

What is the title of this album and on what label?

>
> I just picked up a used CD by Seigen Ono with no notes except for musician
> listings. Beautiful stuff. Zorn is on a few tracks with Frisell and
> others. Also the old Ribot/Nolet Jazz Passengers line-up and some stuff
> with John Lurie, Bill Frisell, Jill Jaffe and the imcomprable tuba player
> Bob Stewart. It's apparently runway music written for Commes des Garcons
> (a French clothing designer or something) recorded in'97 and '89. Can
> anyone give me more info on Ono? I need to know.
>
> kurt
>
>


------------------------------

From: Jeff Spirer <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 07:49:04 -0800
Subject: Re: Seigen Ono

At 09:59 AM 11/26/96 EST, M.Ho wrote:
>What is the title of this album and on what label?

There are two:

Commes des Garcons, Volume 1
Commes des Garcons, Volume 2

Both on Virgin Venture.

Mine appear to be intended for Europe, not sure if they were ever released
as domestically in the US.

Jeff Spirer
http://www.hyperreal.com/axiom/
Axiom Records/Material Communications


------------------------------

End of zorn-list Digest V2 #36
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