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1996-06-18
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From: zorn-list-owner@xmission.com
To: zorn-list-digest@xmission.com
Subject: zorn-list Digest V2 #1
Reply-To: zorn-list@xmission.com
Errors-To: zorn-list-owner@xmission.com
Precedence:
zorn-list Digest Wednesday, 19 June 1996 Volume 02 : Number 001
In this issue:
Frisell goes uptown
joey baron info?
arto lindsay
Re: joey baron info?
Re: arto lindsay
Tzadik Releases
Re: arto lindsay
Joey Baron's dynamics
Bob James
Re: Joey Baron's dynamics
Re: Bob James
Re: Joey Baron's dynamics
Re: Bob James
Tzadik
Re: Bob James
Zorn Compositions
Vacation Soon, Takers?
Re: Tzadik or acappella
Re: Joey Baron's dynamics
Re: Tzadik or acappella
Re: Tzadik or acappella
Tzadik listings updated at last
Tzadik URL (oops...)
Re: Joey Baron/discography
Medeski, Martin and Wood
See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the zorn-list
or zorn-list-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: IOUaLive1@aol.com
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 18:19:22 -0400
Subject: Frisell goes uptown
I caught Frisell's new quartet last night at the Iridium in NYC. I thought
they were great. A lot of people I've talked to don't like the new quartet,
but I thought it fit together nicely. I was especially impressed with Eyvind
Kang, he compliments Frisell's music really well.
I just wished he hadn't played at the Iridium. People who've been there know
what I'm talking about. It's a dinner club and the people there think the
band is there to provide background music. It actually wasnt that bad, I was
expecting worse.
I think a place like that draws people in who don't even know who the artists
is, they just want to go out that night and spend some bucks in a swanky jazz
club. There were definitely some people there last night who didn't get it.
At the table to my left were two ladies in their sixties, two tables down
from me was a guy in a three piece suit, and a guy behind me was wearing a
Tshirt that said "I'm a dickhead". How's that for a jazz club?
------------------------------
From: "Yeah-shure, Nah...er...ve'-so'n" <jwnarves@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca>
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 01:30:12 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: joey baron info?
Where would one look if one wanted to read about joey baron? Is he the
sort of person who gets interviewed a lot?
- -jascha
------------------------------
From: Torsten Nielsen <zoopsi@inet.uni-c.dk>
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 10:42:24 +0200 (METDST)
Subject: arto lindsay
What happened to the new Arto Lindsay cd? I thought it was going to be
released in May. The Knitting Factory doesn't answer my emails...
------------------------------
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 09:53:06 -0700
Subject: Re: joey baron info?
On Sat, 15 Jun 1996 01:30:12 -0400 (EDT) "Yeah-shure, Nah...er...ve'-so'n" wrote:
>
>
> Where would one look if one wanted to read about joey baron? Is he the
> sort of person who gets interviewed a lot?
What a coincidence! The current issue of DRUMMER (the magazine) has an extensive
article on Joey.
Patrice.
------------------------------
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 09:58:01 -0700
Subject: Re: arto lindsay
On Sat, 15 Jun 1996 10:42:24 +0200 (METDST) Torsten Nielsen wrote:
>
> What happened to the new Arto Lindsay cd? I thought it was going to be
> released in May. The Knitting Factory doesn't answer my emails...
As far as I know, KF only said "Released in 1996", which lives some
margin :-).
Patrice.
------------------------------
From: andrewm@ix.netcom.com (Andrew Marks )
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 1996 05:58:47 -0700
Subject: Tzadik Releases
Anyone know where to find reviews of any of the
Tzadik releases? I'm interested in finding out
more about the following releases. They looked
pretty interesting:
Li Chin Sung Past
Eyvind Kang 7 Nades
Haino Keiji Tenshi No Gijinka
Zuni Zuba Jehovah
I would appreciate hearing from anyone on the
list that owns any of these.
------------------------------
From: Steve Smith <ssmith@kochint.com>
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 09:35:19 -0400
Subject: Re: arto lindsay
At 10:42 AM 6/15/96 +0200, you wrote:
>What happened to the new Arto Lindsay cd? I thought it was going to be
>released in May. The Knitting Factory doesn't answer my emails...
>
It's being issued by Bar/None in July, and hits stores on the 23rd of that
month. It's a Brazilian affair called "O Corpo Subtil (The Subtle Body)"
and includes Brian Eno, Ryuichi Sakamoto, Mark Ribot, Nana Vasconcelos,
Melvin Gibbs, Yuka Honda (Cibo Matto), Bill Frisell, Dougie Bowne, Cyro
Baptista and Amadeo Pace (Blonde Redhead). Bar/None describes it in their
release info as "thoughtful and fairly restained, roughly in a Brazilian
style as opposed to Arto's noise/downtown rock."
Steve Smith
ssmith@kochint.com
------------------------------
From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu>
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 15:14:41 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Joey Baron's dynamics
I've (gulp) never really cared for Joey Baron's drumming. While I've
always acknowledged his mastery of rhythm, space, and texture, he's
always struck me as paying very little attention to dynamics. In other
words, his masterful rhythms, spaces, and textures mostly seemed to
played at the same medium-loud volume. (One big exception: Baron's
playing on Frisell's _Have A Little Faith_.)
However, I'd also never seen Baron play live until quite recently. I
caught Masada two days ago here in Pittsburgh, and Baron's drumming
really blew me away. Greg Cohen's bass wasn't even miked for most of the
set, and Baron's use of dynamics, particularly in his interplay with
Cohen. was amazing.
Here's my question: Was I just crazy before, or has anyone else
noticed this problem in Baron's recorded work (particularly with Zorn and
Frisell)? If anyone else has noticed a problem with Baron's dynamics on
record, I'd welcome speculation as to the cause of the problem. I'll
start: Could the problems with Baron's dynamics on record be a result of
the way his drums are miked in the studio?
cjh
Chris Hamilton
Dept. of Philosophy
University of Pittsburgh
USA
chhst9@pitt.edu
------------------------------
From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu>
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 15:24:14 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Bob James
Here's one that's been bugging me for years:
There's a guy named Bob James listed on "tapes" on both versions of
"Cobra" on the Hat Hut issue, as well as on several tracks on _The Big
Gundown_. Could this possibly be the same Bob James of treacly fuzak
fame? (Think Bob James & Earl Klugh.)
I know it sounds crazy, but... The _Penguin Guide_ does list the Zorn
appearances under James the fuzak guy in the index. And, more
interestingly, James the fuzak guy did record an ESP album in the sixties
which I've heard described as a mix of free jazz and _musique concrete_.
Any takers?
cjh
Chris Hamilton
Dept. of Philosophy
University of Pittsburgh
USA
chhst9@pitt.edu
------------------------------
From: Glenn Astarita <gastarit@comm.net>
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 16:11:37 -0500
Subject: Re: Joey Baron's dynamics
Here's my question: Was I just crazy before, or has anyone else
noticed this problem in Baron's recorded work (particularly with Zorn and
Frisell)? If anyone else has noticed a problem with Baron's dynamics on
record, I'd welcome speculation as to the cause of the problem. I'll
start: Could the problems with Baron's dynamics on record be a result of
the way his drums are miked in the studio?
cjh
Chris Hamilton
Dept. of Philosophy
University of Pittsburgh
USA
chhst9@pitt.edu
Well, being a drummer myself I find Baron's sense of dynamics to be one of his
great gifts ! Listen to the straightahead drumming on Randy Brecker's Live at
Sweet Basil's cd. Of course I'm pointing out something that's unrelated to
Zorn !!!!!
glenn
------------------------------
From: Glenn Astarita <gastarit@comm.net>
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 16:11:40 -0500
Subject: Re: Bob James
Here's one that's been bugging me for years:
There's a guy named Bob James listed on "tapes" on both versions of
"Cobra" on the Hat Hut issue, as well as on several tracks on _The Big
Gundown_. Could this possibly be the same Bob James of treacly fuzak
fame? (Think Bob James & Earl Klugh.)
I know it sounds crazy, but... The _Penguin Guide_ does list the Zorn
appearances under James the fuzak guy in the index. And, more
interestingly, James the fuzak guy did record an ESP album in the sixties
which I've heard described as a mix of free jazz and _musique concrete_.
Any takers?
cjh
I kinda doubt its the same B James. However, James did record with Chet Baker
and Gerry Mulligan on a 2 lp Vol I and Vol II set for CTI records back in the
70's. Never heard of any affiliation with Zorn.....
glenn
<---- End Included Message ---->
------------------------------
From: Stickman <stickman@warwick.net>
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 19:37:12 -0700
Subject: Re: Joey Baron's dynamics
Christopher Hamilton wrote:
>
>, he's
> always struck me as paying very little attention to dynamics. In other
> words, his masterful rhythms, spaces, and textures mostly seemed to
> played at the same medium-loud volume. (One big exception: Baron's
> playing on Frisell's _Have A Little Faith_.)
>
> However, I'd also never seen Baron play live until quite recently. I
> caught Masada two days ago here in Pittsburgh, and Baron's drumming
> really blew me away. Greg Cohen's bass wasn't even miked for most of the
> set, and Baron's use of dynamics, particularly in his interplay with
> Cohen. was amazing.
>
> Here's my question: Was I just crazy before, or has anyone else
> noticed this problem in Baron's recorded work (particularly with Zorn and
> Frisell)? If anyone else has noticed a problem with Baron's dynamics on
> record, I'd welcome speculation as to the cause of the problem. I'll
> start: Could the problems with Baron's dynamics on record be a result of
> the way his drums are miked in the studio?
>
First, which of Baron's work are you referring to, in regards to his
poor dynamics?
second, I think you've answered your own question(as every philosopher
should, unless of course you're into that, answer a question, create
another question thing). The trend is to always have an equal, level,
mix in the studio. When something's not leveling at the right volume, a
compressor gets put on, to "equal" it all out. I found Masada live to be
spectacular, the dynamics floored me. But i've always felt the studio
albums don't translate it as well, in fact, i've taken friends to see
them, and then played them the CD's, for this reason. The CD's reflect
great players, the live experience displays brilliance.
third, if you don't have it yet, get Frisell's live CD, with Baron.
- - STICKMAN
------------------------------
From: thayes@iglou.com (Todd Hildreth)
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 04:29:05 GMT
Subject: Re: Bob James
On Mon, 17 Jun 1996 15:24:14 -0400 (EDT), you wrote:
>
>
> Here's one that's been bugging me for years:
>
> There's a guy named Bob James listed on "tapes" on both versions of
> "Cobra" on the Hat Hut issue, as well as on several tracks on _The Big
> Gundown_. Could this possibly be the same Bob James of treacly fuzak
> fame? (Think Bob James & Earl Klugh.)
>
> I know it sounds crazy, but... The _Penguin Guide_ does list the Zorn
> appearances under James the fuzak guy in the index. And, more
> interestingly, James the fuzak guy did record an ESP album in the sixties
> which I've heard described as a mix of free jazz and _musique concrete_.
>
> Any takers?
>
> cjh
>
I know that Bob James started as an avant guardist (supposedly so did
Barry Manilow), so maybe he's kept that vision on the back burner and
pulls it out occassionally for a Zorn gig. I don't know though. Once
you've lost it you've usually lost it for good. (look at Jan Hammer)
Todd
------------------------------
From: N Vassiliou <nv102@mailer.york.ac.uk>
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 15:25:49 +0100 (BST)
Subject: Tzadik
I recently bought Adult Themes for Voice(Mike Patton) and i think it is
amazing. I always liked Patton's work but i could'n believe he could make
those sounds with just his voice and a microphone. All the themes are
amazing, and very funny, especially "the one-armed man vs 9 killers".
Also, has anybody listened to the Zubi Zuva CD? I would very much like to
hear some opinions.
Thanks
Nicholas Vassiliou
------------------------------
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 08:55:25 -0700
Subject: Re: Bob James
On Mon, 17 Jun 1996 15:24:14 -0400 (EDT) Christopher Hamilton wrote:
>
>
>
> Here's one that's been bugging me for years:
>
> There's a guy named Bob James listed on "tapes" on both versions of
> "Cobra" on the Hat Hut issue, as well as on several tracks on _The Big
> Gundown_. Could this possibly be the same Bob James of treacly fuzak
> fame? (Think Bob James & Earl Klugh.)
That's a different Bob James.
> I know it sounds crazy, but... The _Penguin Guide_ does list the Zorn
> appearances under James the fuzak guy in the index. And, more
> interestingly, James the fuzak guy did record an ESP album in the sixties
> which I've heard described as a mix of free jazz and _musique concrete_.
But the ESP record is by the fuzak Bob James. You imagine a James fan
buying it for complete list :-).
Because of his early experimental credits (he studied with Bob Ashley, etc)
I always thought that it could be the same person who appears on few Zorn
records.
Patrice.
------------------------------
From: Andy Marks <amarks@parrot.mts.com>
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 96 13:05:58
Subject: Zorn Compositions
Does anyone know if Zorn has any compositions
(such as Spillane, Elegy, RedBird, Kristallnacht)
in the works for release soon? I enjoy these releases
much more than improv. type stuff or Masada. If not,
then what has he been up to lately that will likely
be showing up in stores later this year?
- -------------------------------------
E-mail: amarks@parrot.mts.com
Date: 6/18/96
Time: 1:5:58 PM
This message was sent by Chameleon
- -------------------------------------
------------------------------
From: rizzi@netcom.com (m. rizzi)
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 11:47:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Vacation Soon, Takers?
I'm leaving in 3 weeks for a cross-country road
trip for the months of July and August.
I'd prefer to get a volunteer (with majordomo
experience) to maintain the list while I'm
gone. Anyone interested?
If not, I can leave the list on auto-pilot
and hope there are no major problems. This
would also mean, that people not able to
auto-unsubscribe and subscribe would have
to wait until I return. There's an outside
chance I could fanagle (sp?) Internet
access from friends and strangers while
travelling ("Hey buddy, spare an Internet
connection in exchange for yardwork").
For the technical voyeurs, running the
list involves
* manually subbing problem accounts
* manually unsubbing problem accounts
* notifying list members that their
mail bounced and needs to be resent
* removing accounts that for some
reason won't accept mail.
Drop me a note, if you are the chosen one.
cheers,
mike rizzi
zorn-list-owner@xmission.com
p.s. The digest is still in the shop, parts
have been ordered, they are in transit
somewhere between Thailand and Salt Lake City.
Ship a tithe of Jolt cola to the fine folks
at xmission.com as an offering.
- --
rizzi@tfs.com ------------------------------------------- rizzi@netcom.com
- -=work=- "Another nerd with a soulpatch" -=home=-
http://www.meer.net/~browbeat/
- -------- browbeat magazine, po box 11124, oakland, ca 94611-1124 ---------
------------------------------
From: Barry Gilbert <barry.gilbert@internetmci.com>
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 17:09:33 -0500
Subject: Re: Tzadik or acappella
- -- [ From: Barry Gilbert * EMC.Ver #2.3 ] --
- -------- REPLY, Original message follows --------
Subject: Tzadik
I recently bought Adult Themes for Voice(Mike Patton) and i think it is
amazing. I always liked Patton's work but i could'n believe he could make
those sounds with just his voice and a microphone. All the themes are
amazing, and very funny, especially "the one-armed man vs 9 killers". Also,
has anybody listened to the Zubi Zuva CD? I would very much like to hear
some opinions.
Thanks
Nicholas Vassiliou
- -------- REPLY, End of original message --------
Zubi Zuva is hilarious and outright weird, a word I don't use frequently.
These guys don't come across as trained vocalists. They rarely seem to 'hit
notes' but there is occasionally harmony. It's most imteresting for their
minimalism-like use of rhythms. Some of the pieces, for example, have
overlays of various different time signatures, similar to some of Moondog's
compositions. All in all, just kinda weird.
I'm actually thinking of putting together a special radio program here of
avant and weird acappella. What comes to mind so far are David Moss, Phil
Minton, The Four Horsemen, Zubi Zuva, The Longshoremen...
Any others ideas?
Barry Gilbert
Boulder, CO
------------------------------
From: IOUaLive1@aol.com
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 20:41:43 -0400
Subject: Re: Joey Baron's dynamics
In a message dated 96-06-17 15:28:45 EDT, you write:
>
>
>I've (gulp) never really cared for Joey Baron's drumming. While I've
>always acknowledged his mastery of rhythm, space, and texture, he's
>always struck me as paying very little attention to dynamics.
He's always struck me as one of the most dynamic drummers in the world.
> In other
>words, his masterful rhythms, spaces, and textures mostly seemed to
>played at the same medium-loud volume. (One big exception: Baron's
>playing on Frisell's _Have A Little Faith_.)
>
> However, I'd also never seen Baron play live until quite recently. I
>caught Masada two days ago here in Pittsburgh, and Baron's drumming
>really blew me away. Greg Cohen's bass wasn't even miked for most of the
>set, and Baron's use of dynamics, particularly in his interplay with
>Cohen. was amazing.
>
> Here's my question: Was I just crazy before, or has anyone else
>noticed this problem in Baron's recorded work (particularly with Zorn and
>Frisell)? If anyone else has noticed a problem with Baron's dynamics on
>record, I'd welcome speculation as to the cause of the problem. I'll
>start: Could the problems with Baron's dynamics on record be a result of
>the way his drums are miked in the studio?
I guess it depends on what records you are talking about- he's on sooo many.
I think Naked City's Grand Guignol and Heretic have some pretty dynamic
drums, and well recorded too.
I don't know, I guess I never noticed a problem at all with his dynamics, on
record, and definitely not live!
I've seen him a dozen times and he is one of the greatest.
------------------------------
From: insulin@slip.net (Marc Kate)
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 22:24:22 -0800
Subject: Re: Tzadik or acappella
>I'm actually thinking of putting together a special radio program here of
>avant and weird acappella. What comes to mind so far are David Moss, Phil
>Minton, The Four Horsemen, Zubi Zuva, The Longshoremen...
>Any others ideas?
Why, yes!
Some obvious ones, I guess:
Yoko Ono, Diamanda Galas, Makigami Koichi, Masonna . . . .
But also, I must suggest you check out Florence Foster Jenkins.
She was a very well-off society woman (in the 20's I believe) who fancied
herself a singer. Occasionally, she would gather her New York Society
crowd for recitals and had quite a following. However, her voice was
hideous. I don't think she ever knew though because her friends didn't
want to hurt her feelings, or perhaps when you're rich enough, you don't
need talent (or honest friends). Great story. She does a version of the
Queen of the Night aria that is just too painful to hear. She makes
Masonna sound melodic. She is available on cd. RCA I think.
Happy listening.
Marc Kate
415-826-4012
insulin@slip.net
------------------------------
From: lamerikx@win.tue.nl (Frankco Lamerikx)
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 09:59:53 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: Re: Tzadik or acappella
> >I'm actually thinking of putting together a special radio program here of
> >avant and weird acappella. What comes to mind so far are David Moss, Phil
> >Minton, The Four Horsemen, Zubi Zuva, The Longshoremen...
> >Any others ideas?
>
> Why, yes!
>
> Some obvious ones, I guess:
> Yoko Ono, Diamanda Galas, Makigami Koichi, Masonna . . . .
>
A not so obvious one is the one that started this thread, Mike Patton. He must
be included, since his solo album on Tzadik is an outstanding effort. Just look
at the way the titles reflect the feel of eacht theme - amazing. Most amazing,
however, is the fact that most of the sounds you hear can't be recognized as
being produced by either voice or microphone. There are some of those outer
space/underwater sounds you also hear in Mr. Bungle's The Bends, and a lot of
almost Merzbow-like noises.
On the subject of Masonna, does anyone have any recommendations?
Frankco.
------------------------------
From: Steve Smith <ssmith@kochint.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 12:19:45 -0400
Subject: Tzadik listings updated at last
Hello everyone. Just wanted you to know that, at long last, the complete
Tzadik listings on the Koch website have been updated. They are now current
through the nine releases coming in August 1996 (including the two-CD
Chamber Masada recording "Bar Kokhba"), plus mentions of releases even
further off (Naked City and Painkiller reissues, more film music) and lots
of useful and amusing links. If you're interested, go, go, go. And I
promise it'll get more and more refined as I learn more about programming.
See ya,
Steve Smith
ssmith@kochint.com
------------------------------
From: Steve Smith <ssmith@kochint.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 12:31:46 -0400
Subject: Tzadik URL (oops...)
I'm sorry, I'm sorry... overzealous little dope that I am, I forgot to
mention that the url for the Tzadik part of the Koch website is
http://kochint.com/tzadik.html ---
sorry about that.
Steve Smith
ssmith@kochint.com
------------------------------
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 16:54:24 -0700
Subject: Re: Joey Baron/discography
On Thu, 30 May 1996 19:37:53 -0700 stickman@warwick.net wrote:
>
> Hey Patrice, how about putting this topic in order & spoon feeding us a complete Joey
> Baron Discography? I know you have the neccessary info, oh keeper of the Zorn
> discography-
Don't I take care of enough discographies like that? I had in mind to do a
Joey Baron one day, but not so early :-).
Patrice.
------------------------------
From: "Wilson, King of Prussia" <wilson@suba.com>
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 19:34:21 -0500
Subject: Medeski, Martin and Wood
A grovel for the masses....
I'm looking for some live tapes of Medeski, Martin and Wood. In
particular, I'm looking for their shows with Zorn and Ribot, and for their
recent Chicago shows. If anyone has anything, I'd really like to trade.
BTW I live in chicago, and am hoping someone who was taping when MM+W was
here wants to do me a favor, and burn me a great copy off a master.
but I'm not holding my breath....
read icculus
------------------------------
End of zorn-list Digest V2 #1
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