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utah-firearms-digest      Sunday, January 9 2000      Volume 02 : Number 172




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 25 Dec 99 16:15:00 -0700
From: [e-mail] (SCOTT BERGESON)
Subject: GOUtah! Alert #38 - 22 December 1999 2/2

[ ...Continued From Previous Message ]
It's Your National Forest - KEEP OUT!
Received 18 December 1999 from Weldon Clark, Member of the NRA Board of
Directors

If you enjoy any outdoor activities in your National Forests your days are
numbered. Bill Clinton is going to put a stop your recreation with a stroke
of the pen. What will be effected? Mountain Biking, Horse Back Riding,
ATV's, Motorcycles, Hunting, Fishing, etc.

How will he do this? By blocking your access by motorized vehicle to some
50 Million Acres of your own land. It's as simple as that.

Think this is more "Black Helicopter" conspiracy ranting? Look at your
Forest Service WEB site: http://www.roadless.fs.fed.us

When you look at this WEB site use your head and take the time to look
past their simple sounding pronouncements of what they say they are up to.
Look at what they're bragging about in the "in the news" section. Note that
this has nothing to do with partisan politics or the right/left battles.

This act by Bill Clinton completely bypasses the congress and the checks and
balances against abuse of power which are the bases of our freedom. In Part
One of this plan, there will be a prohibition on "road building" in National
Forests. On the surface this seems like a small thing. But when you see them
talk about maintaining the safety of existing roads know that they plan to
close all "unmaintained" roads. By doing thing this you will no longer have
vehicle access to some 380,000 miles of your own roads.

In Part Two they finish the job by banning all "off road vehicles" from use
in "roadless" areas.

Perhaps you consider yourself an environmentalist and support this. But
consider; if you allow this to become law by royal decree, to pass
unchallenged, the next time a non-environmentalist President gets into
office he can use the same precedent to reverse the will of congress like
Clinton by Royal Edict.

The sword of tyranny cuts both ways.

Maybe you're a mountain biker who thinks this just gets dirt bikers, etc.
Don't fall for that "get the other guy" trap. Look at what the folks behind
this are really after, the complete prohibition of human activity in our
national forests.

So they play you against the dirt bike folks, or the hunters against the
ATV guys - makes no difference; if those of us who use National Forests for
legitimate purposes don't hang together and support each other's rights -
we shall all hang separately.

YOU MUST ACT TO STOP THIS. HERE'S HOW:

1. Please contact the Blue Ribbon Coalition for the very latest
information on the biggest land grab in American history:
http://www.sharetrails.org/choice.html

2. Forward this email to everyone you know.

3. You must send a written objection during the comment period or you will
lose your legal standing to object after this passes: Here's how you do it.

Use this form: http://www.fs.fed.us/r2/roadless/Roadless_Public_Comment_Form.ht

Write your comments to the:
USDA Forest Service-CAET,
Roadless Areas NOI,
PO Box 221090,
Salt Lake City, Utah, 84122.

Fax them at 801-517-1021

email them at: roadless/[e-mail]

4. Call and write to your U.S. Congressional Delegation, especially Jim
Hansen (R-1st District of Utah):

http://www.congress.nw.dc.us/wnd/

5. Forward this message.

Other nifty links to your governments efforts to keep you out of your land:
http://www.fs.fed.us/r2/roadless/roadless.html
http://www.more.abcnews.go.com/sections/science/DailyNews/forests991013.html
http://www.fs.fed.us/r2/roadless/Roadless_Questions_and_Answers.htm

GOUtah Note: Regardless of where you stand on the Utah environmental and
wilderness debate, remember that if you don't have private vehicle access
to public lands, they in essence become private, restricted reserves. No
one is going to walk from Salt Lake to Delta or Dirtwater with all their
hunting gear or camping kit on their back. If you can't get to where you're
going with a private vehicle. you're out of luck. Act on this today.

Give the Gift of Freedom for Christmas

We at GOUtah! wish you and yours a very happy holiday season. While the
holidays are indeed hectic and sometimes the real meaning gets lost in the
commercial clutter, GOUtah! suggests you gather your loved ones around you
and tell them what the gift of freedom means to you. Discuss as a family
what you can do today to insure the gift of freedom is passed to the next
generation tomorrow.

Set aside the price of at least one Christmas present this year and donate
that cost to a worthwhile cause, one actively involved in protecting gun
rights and individual freedom. A local or national gun-rights group, a
local or state pro-gun political candidate, a youth firearms program or
some other similar cause would very much appreciate your financial support
and involvement.

Buy a friend a membership in the NRA or some other gun rights group. Buy a
friend a gun-rights book. Take a friend shooting. Buy them a Utah CCW
training class. Become a pro-gun delegate in your political party.
Volunteer your time to a pro-gun candidate's campaign or to a gun-rights
organization.

Give the gift of freedom every Christmas! It starts with you!

GOUtah! Gun Rights (and Wrongs) QuoteWatch.

"Yeah, (Leavitt's) finally heard the message. It's not a new message,
but I think he's clearly heard it this time." -- Rob Bishop, Chair of
the Utah Republican Party, regarding Gov. Mike Leavitt's public retreat
from his vocal leadership of the Utah anti-gun movement, as reported
in the Salt Lake Tribune, 18 December 1999

"I think the conservative faction has frightened the governor, and made
him feel squeamish about his own leadership." -- Ted Wilson, Director
of the Hinkley Institute of Politics at the University of Utah, and the
spokesperson for the Utah anti-gun petition coalition, as reported in
the same article in the Salt Lake Tribune, 18 December 1999

"I can see now (Leavitt) has no stomach for such a fight." -- Steve Gunn,
spokesperson for Utahns Against Gun Violence, from comments made in the
Salt Lake Tribune, 17 December 1999.

This concludes the GOUtah! Political and Legislative Alert #38 - 22
December 1999.

We hope this information will be of assistance to you in defending your
firearms rights. Remember that getting this information is meaningless
unless YOU ACT ON IT TODAY. If you just read it and dump it in the trash,
your gun rights, and the gun rights of future generations go in the trash
with it. Get involved, get active and get vocal!

Copyright 1999 by GOUtah! All rights reserved.



- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 25 Dec 99 16:15:00 -0700
From: [e-mail] (SCOTT BERGESON)
Subject: LPU: Fwd: UPS needs your "e-mail gift" ASAP!

- -----
To: [e-mail]
From: [e-mail]
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 18:59:53 EST
Subject: LPU: Fwd: UPS needs your "e-mail gift" ASAP!

Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 12:24:57 -0600
From: "Chris W.Stark" <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail]

- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
[Sorry, munging in transmission corrupts that.]

GUN OWNERS ALLIANCE
!!ALERT!!
Chris W. Stark - Director
P.O. Box 1924
Crosby, Texas 77532-1924
Ph. [phone] Fax [phone]
http://www.GOA-Texas.org
email: [e-mail]

12/24/1999

UPS needs your "e-mail gift" ASAP!

Copyright 1999 by Gun Owners Alliance (GOA-Texas).
Republication permitted ONLY if this e-mail alert
is left intact in its original state.

Since it is the season for giving (supposedly), we certainly hope you have
remembered our Boycott against UPS, and have given them the gift of your
e-mail, like the one below from a dedicated activist who subscribes to the
GOA-Texas e-mail alerts. For those of you who would like to read about this
boycott, go to:

http://www.goa-texas.org/UPS-5.htm
http://www.goa-texas.org/UPS-6.htm

If you cannot access websites, e-mail us that you would like us to e-mail
you the old alerts, and we will do so.

Here are the e-mail addresses for UPS, AirBorne Express and RPS. Give them
the gift they so richly deserve: Your disgust for their anti-gun policies.

National Media Relations - Norman Black
Voice - 404-828-7593
Pager - 888-856-8816
E-Mail - [e-mail]

International Media Relations - John Flick
Voice - 404-828-6346
E-Mail - [e-mail]

Reputation Management - Peggy Gardner
Voice - 404-828-6051
E-Mail - [e-mail]

Marketing and Olympics - Susan Rosenberg
Voice - 404-828-6130
E-Mail - [e-mail]

Executive Communications - Steve Soltis
Voice - 404-828-4029
E-Mail - [e-mail]

Public Affairs - Tad Segal
Voice - 202-675-3381
E-Mail - [e-mail]

Information Technology - Joan Schnorbus
Voice - 201-828-4937
E-Mail - [e-mail]
Louisville, Kentucky

UPS Airline - Ken Shapero
Voice - 502-329-6522
E-Mail - [e-mail]


Here is the RPS e-mail WEB FORM to tell them the good news:
http://www.shiprps.com/cgi-win/rcu100ex.exe?func=3Dentry
(previous e-mail address we gave for RPS has been blocked!)
["=3D" is also a result of munging, but I don't know the correction]


Here are some AIRBORNE EXPRESS e-mail addresses to tell them the good news:
[e-mail]
[e-mail]

THE UPS BOYCOTT LIVES ON!!!


Dear Sir,

I just finished shipping the last of my Christmas gifts last week. I wanted
to let you know that I avoided UPS and spent $30.32 to ship via the US Postal
Service specifically because of your recent actions regarding the shipping of
handguns. While my $30.32 means very little to you, there are over 60 million
gun owners in America, and many of us have sworn to boycott your company.

There are other simple and effective actions that you could have taken to
combat theft of handguns shipped via your company - actions that would not
dump the entire burden and cost on legitimate handgun consumers. Instead, you
chose to require all handguns to be shipped by your expensive next-day air
option. This is your choice to make - just as the choice is mine to make to
refuse to do business with a company hostile to gun owners and the gun industry.

If your company should chose to adopt a more reasonable approach to securing
handgun shipments, I may bring my business back to UPS. Until that time, every
gift and business package I have to ship will be carried by the US Postal
Service.

Sincerely,

(name omitted for privacy)

Help Support the work of Gun Owners Alliance! Go to:
http://www.goa-texas.org/members.htm

Copyright 1999 by Gun Owners Alliance (GOA-Texas). Republication
permitted ONLY if this e-mail alert is left intact in its original
state. The views herein do not necessarily reflect the views of
any other individual or organization, than Gun Owners Alliance
(GOA-Texas). We do not officially represent Gun Owners of America.
Go to http://www.goa-texas.org/TXsig.htm for more information.

TO SUBSCRIBE TO OUR E-MAIL ALERTS, send an e-mail to: [e-mail]
...and in the body of the message, type the word "subscribe".



- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Dec 99 11:23:00 -0700
From: [e-mail] (SCOTT BERGESON)
Subject: WARNING: UPS theft problem damages your rights 2/2

[ ...Continued From Previous Message ]
biggest federal gun-trafficking investigation in Maryland in years.

"It was of major significance to us," she said. "The sole purpose
of getting these guns on the street was to put them in the hands of
criminals. The fact that you had so many guns out there, it brings
up people's greatest fears."

Battaglia said she met with UPS officials last summer to discuss ways
to prevent thefts. She praised the company's new shipping policy for
guns. "I was amazed at how responsive they were," she said.

UPS says it aggressively investigates all reports of stolen or missing
firearms.

But the local gun dealer whose shipments were stolen at Landover said
he also had trouble getting UPS to investigate the missing weapons.

According to documents filed in federal court, the thieves at the UPS
distribution center at 8325 Ardwick-Ardmore Rd. began discreetly,
taking a gun or two at a time, spaced several days apart.

The first gun -- a Smith & Wesson .357-caliber revolver -- was taken
on Feb. 18, when a box addressed to Maryland Small Arms, an Upper
Marlboro gun dealer, vanished from the premises.

Eight days later, a UPS driver delivered another package to Maryland
Small Arms that had been sent by Springfield, Mass.-based Smith &
Wesson. The gun dealer refused the package, because the box had been
tampered with. Two 9mm semiautomatic pistols were later determined to
be missing, according to court records.

Three UPS package loaders -- Darris Marlon Banks, 19, of Temple Hills;
Carlos Ramon Jones, 28, of Landover; and Anthony Rondell Barnett, 28,
of Lothian -- have been convicted in the weapon thefts. All worked the
overnight shift at Landover, making $10.75 an hour.

Banks was the first to figure out that packages addressed to Maryland
Small Arms contained firearms and that they were easy to steal,
according to court records. He tipped off Barnett, who pulled Jones
into the scheme.

On March 3, according to affidavits filed by the ATF, Banks grabbed a
box off the conveyor belt and carried it into the back of a brown UPS
delivery truck on the loading line. All three men jumped inside, where
Banks sliced open the package and pulled out four Smith & Wesson
semiautomatic pistols.

Banks handed the weapons to Barnett, who in turn gave them to Jones,
according to court records. Jones took off his jacket and stuffed the
guns in the sleeves so he could sneak them out of the building. The
workers re-sealed the empty package. Later that morning, it was
delivered to Maryland Small Arms.

Carl Roy, a manager at the store, said employees called UPS several
times about the gun thefts but couldn't get the company to respond.
"UPS wouldn't do anything," he said. "We complained and complained,
but they wouldn't even come out to take a report."

Meantime, the thieves grew more brazen. On March 19, they stuck a new
address label on a package containing 10 Smith & Wesson .357-caliber
revolvers and had the whole shipment delivered to Banks's home in
Temple Hills, according to court records. On March 24, they did the
same thing to a box of nine Beretta semiautomatic pistols that had
been ordered by Maryland Small Arms.

Authorities say the thieves resold the guns quickly on the street for
about $300 on average, a hefty discount from their suggested retail
prices of $450 to $650.

One of the 9mm semiautomatic pistols that were stolen on Feb. 26 was
used less than 36 hours later in a carjacking in Temple Hills, records
show. Police say Dante Devon Hamm, 20, of the 2500 block of St. Claire
Drive in Temple Hills, stole a 1994 Lexus ES 300 at gunpoint from
Johnny's Sub Shop on Iverson Street. D.C. police spotted the car a few
hours later and arrested Hamm at the wheel.

According to authorities, Hamm bought the pistol from Banks, his
longtime neighbor and friend. Hamm has pleaded guilty to federal
charges of carjacking and use of a handgun in a crime of violence.
He is to be sentenced Jan. 10.

Another gun stolen from the UPS distribution center surfaced on May
25, when Prince George's police arrested Kenneth Vincent Francis, 22,
of the 2400 block of Iverson Street in Temple Hills, and charged him
with possession of cocaine and marijuana, according to authorities.

Police say Francis was carrying a Beretta .45-caliber semiautomatic
pistol. He later told ATF agents he had bought the gun in early April
for $350 from a convicted cocaine dealer who had acquired the firearm
from Banks.

The UPS gun theft ring was broken up in late March, when ATF agents
obtained a search warrant and found two of the stolen weapons at
Banks's home in Temple Hills. Banks later cooperated with investigators
under a limited-immunity agreement and provided information that led
to the arrests of Jones and Barnett.

Banks pleaded guilty to one count of possessing stolen firearms and is
awaiting sentencing in federal court. Jones pleaded guilty to the same
charge and was sentenced to 30 months in prison. Barnett pleaded guilty
to one count of theft of firearms and was sentenced to four months in
prison.

Records also show that Jones had a long criminal history before he
was hired by UPS in May 1997. He was convicted of manufacturing and
distributing cocaine in November 1990, according to Prince George's
County Circuit Court records. Four years later, he was charged with
first-degree murder in what prosecutors described as a "drug-related
homicide." The charge was dropped when two witnesses refused to
testify, court records show.

Godlewski, the UPS spokesman, said the company does conduct background
checks of all job applicants. But he acknowledged that some criminals
slip by.

"UPS believes that most people are honest," he said.
"Are bad apples going to get through? Absolutely."

1999 The Washington Post Company

- -----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this
material is distributed without profit or payment to those who
have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information
for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For
more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
- -----------------------

UPS Boycott

As you probably know, UPS announced that it no longer accepts ground
shipment of handguns. Moreover, for practical purposes air shipment
is now likely to require you to go to a UPS office:

Handguns may only be shipped via Next Day Air, Next Day Air Early AM
and Next Day Saver with the "Adult Signature Required" label properly
affixed. Handguns are prohibited from the UPS Ground system, SonicAir
BestFlight Service, On-Call Air Pickup, Internet Shipping, Letter
Centers (drop Boxes), or One-time Pickup requests. UPS will accept
handguns from Daily Pickup accounts & Customer Counters. Packages [with]
handguns must be segregated. The driver or clerk must be informed which
packages contain handguns. Authorized Shipping Outlets & Commercial
Counters are prohibited from accepting any firearms for UPS.

UPS Corporate Headquarters
United Parcel Service of America, Inc.
55 Glenlake Parkway, NE
Atlanta, GA 30328
1-800-PICK-UPS (1-800-742-5877)
UPS E-Mail:
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]

RPS e-mail WEB
http://www.ups.com

AIRBORNE EXPRESS e-mail:
[e-mail]
[e-mail]

Also see Leroy Pyle's UPS boycott site
http://www.paulrevere.org/boycottups/

From The 2ndAmendmentNews Team

Feel free to forward our alerts.

What To Do If The Police Come To Confiscate Your Militia Weapons:
see http://www.2ndamendment.net

To join, send text "SUBSCRIBE 2nd-Amendment-News" to [e-mail]

Cordially Yours,
The 2ndAmendmentNews Team



- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Dec 99 11:23:00 -0700
From: [e-mail] (SCOTT BERGESON)
Subject: WARNING: UPS theft problem damages your rights 1/2

- -----
To: [e-mail]
From: "Weldon Clark" <[e-mail]>
Subject: WARNING: UPS theft problem damages your rights
Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 20:16:41 -0500

WARNING: UPS theft problem damages your rights
Here's something to send to your acquaintances:

The news article below shows that UPS has a big employee theft problem,
which we never would have heard about if they were not stealing firearms.
The thefts are not surprising when you consider UPS' attitude and whom
they hire to handle your valuables. When nothing happened, the three UPS
cargo handlers - one of them a convicted crack dealer - grew bolder...
They grabbed entire packages...slapped on new address labels and had
[UPS] deliver them home for free... 'UPS wouldn't do anything' [said
the gun store manager]...We complained and complained, but they wouldn't
even...take a report.'

If you used to use UPS in your shipping you might call 1-800-PICK-UPS
every time you ship and tell them why you won't be using them.

Source: Washington Post
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/metro/A30332-1999Dec23.html
When Guns Don't Arrive at Their Destinations
By Craig Whitlock
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, December 24, 1999; Page A1

Even the men convicted of stealing guns from the United Parcel Service
distribution center in Landover were surprised by how easy it was
to pick them off the conveyor belt and get them out of the building.

They started cautiously, slicing open cardboard boxes addressed to
a Prince George's County gun shop, removing one or two handguns and
taking them out by hiding them under their clothes.

When nothing happened, the three UPS cargo handlers -- one of them a
convicted crack dealer -- grew bolder, according to affidavits filed
in U.S. District Court in Greenbelt. They grabbed entire packages
filled with revolvers and semiautomatic pistols, slapped on new
address labels and had their employer deliver them home for free.

Before they were arrested by federal agents in March and April, the
three UPS workers stole 29 handguns and sold them on the streets for
$250 to $350. One of the firearms was used in an armed carjacking
less than 36 hours after it was stolen from a UPS shipment. Only
eight have been recovered.

Authorities say the UPS case illustrates how -- despite increasingly
strict controls on gun sales to individuals -- package delivery firms,
where security is often lax, often are an easy target for criminals
intent on obtaining weapons.

"Criminals are going to go to the path of least resistance," said Mike
Campbell, a spokesman in the Baltimore office of the Bureau of Alcohol,
Tobacco and Firearms, which investigated the UPS thefts. "They are
going to find whatever way they can to get the guns. So if they can
find somebody on the inside to help them, they will."

In 1998, 941 firearms were reported stolen from interstate shipments,
most of them from commercial carriers such as UPS, according to ATF
figures. But federal officials concede that they have no idea how
many of the estimated 5 million guns that are shipped each year by
commercial carrier are stolen.

Licensed gun dealers and manufacturers are required by federal law
to report all firearms thefts to the ATF, but there is no such
requirement for package delivery companies. Some carriers report
gun thefts voluntarily, but the ATF declined to provide a breakdown
on losses reported by each company.

"Theft from interstate shipments has always been a problem because
there are such large numbers of guns being sent," said Jeffrey R.
Roehm, an ATF spokesman in Washington.

Roehm said UPS "has been overwhelmingly cooperative" with investigators
and has assisted in numerous undercover operations. But he added that
it can be difficult to sniff out gun thieves in the company's sprawling
shipping network.

In general, firearms can be shipped only to licensed dealers,
manufacturers and wholesalers. To deter thefts, federal law
dictates that packages containing guns must be shipped in
plain wrappers that bear no indication of their contents.

About 80% of the guns shipped in the United States move through UPS.
The U.S. Postal Service is legally barred from shipping handguns
through the mail, although it can deliver shotguns and rifles for
licensed dealers.

UPS spokesman Bob Godlewski said "several hundred" guns are stolen from
the Atlanta-based company each year, although he declined to be specific.

Many of the thefts in the UPS system, big and small, have proved to be
inside jobs plotted by employees. In August, a UPS employee from Charles
County was indicted on federal charges of possessing a stolen handgun
and crack cocaine after he was shot during an altercation with two ATF
agents who were trying to interview him in a firearms trafficking case.
Federal authorities say the man, Anthony Gray, 20, of Waldorf, and
another UPS worker stole three guns from the company's Waldorf
distribution center in July.

In 1992, a UPS driver from Alexandria was charged with stealing more than
850 handguns from his route and selling them to finance his crack-cocaine
business. Many of the firearms were shipped via UPS by Interarms Inc.,
of Alexandria, one of the world's largest gun dealerships. The driver,
Bernard G. Fuller, was sentenced to 12 years in prison without parole.

In October, after the thefts from its Landover distribution center,
UPS changed its rules and now requires all handguns to be sent by
next-day-air service, the form of delivery also required by Federal
Express Corp. and Airborne Freight Corp. That method allows packages
to be tracked more closely and reduces the time they are sitting around,
making them less vulnerable to thieves, according to UPS officials.
Rifles and shotguns, however, can still be sent by standard ground
delivery, which is cheaper.

But some gun dealers criticized UPS, saying the company has forced
them to pay more to have guns delivered overnight but has done little
else to improve security.

"They're punishing us for their incompetence," said Sanford Abrams,
owner of Valley Guns in Towson and vice president of the Maryland
Licensed Firearms Dealers Association. "We're livid that we have to
pay for UPS's inefficiency and lack of security. They should secure
their facilities and check the backgrounds of their employees to make
sure they aren't hiring criminals."

Godlewski, the UPS spokesman, said the change was made "to minimize
the risk, even though it might be more expensive for the consumer.

"In the end, it's this game of trying to keep guns out of the bad guys'
hands and limiting the number of people who have access to them."

He said he did not know how many guns have been stolen since the policy
went into effect, but he acknowledged that the new system is not foolproof.
"If somebody really wants to get in there, they'll get in there," he said.

Indeed, ATF agents and local authorities are still looking for the
culprit who stole six handguns in late October from a UPS distribution
center in Ventura, Calif. The weapons, which were sent in accordance
with UPS's new rules, were addressed to a gun dealership called
Shooters Paradise.

George Rice, the owner, said that over the past two years, 70 guns
being shipped to his two stores through UPS have not been delivered.
He criticized the company's security division as slow and lackadaisical.

"The people they have checking [the problem], I don't think they could
catch anybody if they did it right in front of them," he said. "They
would never follow through. Every time I contacted them, it was like,
'Oh, it's no big deal.' It's asinine. Everybody knows the guns are all
going right to the streets, to the gangs."

U.S. Attorney Lynne A. Battaglia said the UPS case in Landover was the
[ Continued In Next Message... ]


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 22:25:51 -0700
From: "larry larsen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: CCW instructors

I read in the paper how the insturctors in "Northern" Utah have come up with
some standards for the teaching of the CCW.

I live in So Utah, and have never been approached by any of these fellow
instructors.  So to all of you who care, and also those of you who don't, I
give this response.

It is my opinion that anyone who wants a CCW should have it.  But the state
requires that a form of insturction be taken.   So in conformance with that
there are certian things that are taught.   Adding to these requirements is
a mistake,   whether  or not some feel it is for the public good.  We should
be looking for ways to remove requirements not add to them.  The
constitution does not state that only people who can hit a certain target at
a certain distance have the right to defend themselves.  That is STUPID.   I
don't say that it is ok not to be able to hit what you aim at.  But who is
to say what is approiate and what is not.  I know for a fact that I can
outshoot 99% of all the instructors in the state, so should my shooting
level be the gauge?  Or should we pick someone elses with a lower skill
level? If we do, and  the permit carrier takes a shot and misses,  and hits
granny by mistake, should we hold whoever said it was ok to make the
standard lower than what I can shoot responsible?

I am saying my support for change goes to those who lesson the requirement
and come closer to what the constitution is saying,  not to a group of
instructors who want to be rule makers and dictators.

Larry Larsen

http://larsenfamily.com/cc/



- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 16:53:13 -0700
From: "David Sagers" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fwd: Can you imagine?

Received: from THIOKOL.COM
    (gw2zz.thiokol.com [209.37.209.131])
    by icarus.ci.west-valley.ut.us; Mon, 03 Jan 2000 09:22:27 -0700
Received: from UTAH-Message_Server by THIOKOL.COM
    with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 03 Jan 2000 09:24:14 -0700
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.2
Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 09:23:48 -0700
From: "Neil W. Sagers" <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail], [e-mail]
Subject: Can you imagine?

Can you imagine working at the following Company? It has a little
over
500 employees with the following statistics:

  *29 have been accused of spousal abuse
    *7 have been arrested for fraud
  *19 have been accused of writing bad checks
*117 have bankrupted at least two businesses
     *3 have been arrested for assault
   *71 cannot get a credit card due to bad credit
   *14 have been arrested on drug-related charges
     *8 have been arrested for shoplifting
   * 21 are current defendants in lawsuits

*In 1998 alone, 84 were stopped for drunk driving

Can you guess which organization this is? Give up?


It's the 535 members of your United States Congress. The same
group that perpetually cranks out hundreds upon hundreds of new laws
designed to keep the rest of us in line.



- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 11:14:57 -0700
From: charles hardy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fw: Davis County--Meeting with State Senator Terry Spencer--HIGH PRIORITY!

Sounds like they could use a large turnout to politely but firmly let the
good Senator know he needs to support our right to own and carry guns.

NOTE that an RSVP to the email below is requested of those planning to
attend.

==================================================================
Charles C. Hardy
<[e-mail]>

- --------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "David A. Hansen" <[e-mail]>


Notice of Meeting with State Senator Terry Spencer, who represents much
of
Davis County.  This meeting will be on January 14 at 7:30 p.m. at the
home of
Dave Farrell (address below).

We need all the attendance at this meeting we can get in order to impress
upon
Terry Spencer the importance of his standing up for the Second Amendment
and
not continuing his compromises of late.  Spencer holds a key position on
the
Senate Judiciary Committee, which tends to see most of the Second
Amendment
legislation that comes before the legislature. Lately Spencer has been
promoting a bill that would make it illegal for citizens to own firearms
for a
period of three years if they commit certain misdemeanors.  We need to
make it
clear to Spencer that if there are misdemeanors so serious as to require
the
revocation of Second Amendment rights that these misdemeanors ought
rather to
be re-classified as felonies in order to keep from sliding down the
slippery
slope that could eventually make all misdemeanors grounds for loss of
Second
Amendment rights for umteen number of years.  Spencer claims that the
majority
of people in Davis County support this legislation.  Let's make it clear
to him
that just because a majority supports it, it does not make it right to go
against the State Constitution which stipulates that only felons can have
firearm privileges revoked.  Spencer has also argued that even though
this law
goes against the State Constitution, certain court cases have set the
precedent
that allow these infringements.

Spencer seems to be on the edge of deciding whether to support Second
Amendment
issues.  We need to firmly--but politely--encourage him to stand up for
what is
Constitutionally correct.  Please come and bring your pro-Second
Amendment
friends.  I would like to get a count of the number who will be attending
and
how many you are bringing with you.  Please email me this information
when you
know. ([e-mail])

Dave Farrell's home is at 180 E. Shepard Lane, Kaysville.

Farrell's home is actually west of I-15. To get to his home, from highway
89,
go west on Shepard Lane, the road by Smiths and Kmart in
Farmington. Continue to go west past the Country Club, cross over the
freeway
and his house is about the seventh house (pink and grey colored) on the
left,
after you cross the bridge over
the interstate..

I look forward to seeing all of you there.

Dave

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 00:24:49 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: FW: 2nd Amend. Action Alert

Utah Shooting Sports Council E-mail Action Alert

A coalition made up of the Utah Parent Teacher Association (PTA), the Utah
Education Association (teachers union), some non- LDS church leaders, and
assorted anti-gun extremist is trying to get an anti-gun initiative on the
November 2000 general election ballot.  This deceptively titled "Safe to
Learn, Safe to Worship Act" will prohibit licensed concealed carry permit
holders from carrying firearms in houses of worship, universities, schools,
and private homes. The coalition is busy collecting the thousands of
signatures needed to get it on the ballot.  If enough signatures are
obtained in the required number of counties by June 1st, it will appear on
the November 2000 ballot for passage or defeat by Utah voters.

The news media spin is that the initiative is needed to keep guns out of
schools.  They have created the impression that this will stop juveniles,
gang members or psychos. This is false.  This initiative is not aimed as
Harris and Klebold type juvenile gunmen, or serial rapists, or murderers, or
carjackers, or kidnappers. This is aimed only at the 30,000 Utahns with
concealed carry permits who have been cleared by the Department of Public
Safety and passed an FBI background check. The above mentioned bad guys are
already banned from having guns in schools, churches, or anywhere else by
existing laws, but you won't hear that from the media.  Most of the people
gathering supporting this initiative have NOT even read the complete
initiative, and do not understand what it actually requires.

Every gun owner needs to fight this proposal.  This is NOT just about
concealed carry permit holders.  This is a major assault on the ability of
law abiding citizens to possess guns for self defense.  It is also part of a
larger campaign to relentlessly enact restrictions on the legal manufacture,
sale, transfer, ownership, possession, or use of any type of gun by any
person. This includes deer rifles and trap or skeet shotguns, ugly assault
rifles and beautiful antique flintlocks, cheap surplus guns and expensive
custom guns, small-easily concealed guns and guns too big to hide.  They
hate all guns and gun owners and are targeting one segment at a time. The
anti gun fanatics are trying to nibble away at any edge they can find. This
fight is important to ALL gun owners, not just the 30,000 Utahns with
Concealed Carry Permits.  YOU and YOUR guns may be next on their list!

The language on this bill is complicated and technical. Few people will
bother to read it.  The full text of this bill is available from the Utah
Lieutenant Governor's Office at
http://governor.state.ut.us/lt_gover/guninitiative.htm. You need to review
this and tell everyone you know to REFUSE TO SIGN THE PEITITIONS to put the
initiative on next year's ballot.  You especially need to talk with parents
of school age children and others who attend PTA meetings and encourage
everyone to speak out against this initiative in the PTA meeting.

Ten points to keep in mind when discussing the initiative:

(1)   There has never been a shooting in a school caused by a concealed
carry permit holder anywhere in Utah or the nation.

(2)   Two of the recent school shootings were stopped by private citizens
with guns.  The shooting in Pearl, Mississippi, was stopped when the
assistant principal retrieved his gun from his car and confronted the
shooter.  No shots were fired.  The shooting at the Edinboro, Pennsylvania,
school dance was stopped when a citizen leveled a shotgun at the attacker
and told him to stop. Again no shots were fired.  These are details that the
media tries to hide.

(3)   Research by Professor John Lott of Yale University (formerly with the
University of Chicago) reveals that most mass public shootings take place in
gun free zones.  Places were the attackers know they will not meet any armed
resistance.

(4)   Even radio's strongest supporter of children and safety, Dr. Laura
Schlessinger, has decided that allowing law abiding citizens with permits to
carry concealed weapons is a good idea, including in schools and churches.
You can read Dr. Laura's column in the October 10, 1999 Deseret News.

(5)   This initiative defines a public or private pre-school or child care
facility as a school.  This means if you home school or do any day care in
you home you could be barred from having guns in you home.

(6)   If you take night classes at any school in the state, and have to walk
out to a dimly lit parking lot at night you will be unable to protect
yourself.

(7)   This will ban hunter safety classes, gunsmithing courses, JROTC owned
guns, competitive shooting sports, and even guns in museums on school or
church property.

(8)   This initiative would require a concealed carry permit holder or any
one legally in possession of a gun to get special permission to enter a
private residence with a firearm, making their carrying of a gun common
knowledge. They will become a more likely target for a criminal seeking a
gun.. Convicted rapists, child molesters, murderers, drug dealers, burglars,
or even people like Ted Bundy or Jeffrey Dahmer do not need to ask special
permission to enter a private residence.  But law abiding citizens will have
to ask first!

(9)   Churches and Houses of worship already have the power to keep
concealed carry permit holders off their property.  Mere posting of a sign
or verbal notification to permit holders is sufficient to forbid them from
entering when armed.

(10)  Some religious leaders reportedly support the ban on guns in churches
on theological grounds, claiming that guns have no place in sanctuaries or
places of worship. If they don't want guns on their property they ALREADY
have the means to ban them. The theological objection to guns is
hypocritical, as these leaders are happy to make exceptions for on and off
duty police officers. Imposing theological positions by passing laws is a
clear violation of the separation between church and state. Religious groups
should be allowed to worship as they see fit, free from government imposed
rules of any sort. Will these same churches support a ban on communion wine
because it is offensive to the theology of some other churches?

- -

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End of utah-firearms-digest V2 #172
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