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utah-firearms-digest    Saturday, February 13 1999    Volume 02 : Number 126




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 17:01:43 -0700
From: "larry larsen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Concealed Guns Will Still Go to Church, School

Just the world council of churches the LDS church does not belong.
Larry

- -----Original Message-----
From: S. Thompson <[e-mail]>
To: Scott Bergeson <[e-mail]>
Cc: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 2:54 PM
Subject: Re: Concealed Guns Will Still Go to Church, School


>Thanks, Scott!
>
>The Coalition of Religious Communities claims to represent "most major
>faiths in Utah", so I'd assume someone from the LDS Church is a member.  In
>my opinion, their representative epitomizes the very absence of religious
>values.  She's arrogant, unwilling to discuss other points of view, knows
>EXACTLY what everyone else "should" do, and presumes that she is the final
>arbiter of what constitutes "proper" worship.  She even went to far as to
>imply that for children to see their parents carrying firearms constituted
>some sort of "child abuse".
>
>What hasn't been published (nor will it ever be) is the tone of the
>dialogue at the hearing.  The anti-gun people were unanimous that gun
>owners are some sort of "vermin" who should not be allowed to participate
>in civilized society.  "We don't want _those_ people in places like schools
>or churches" sort of nonsense.  It sure sounded like "hate speech" to me.
>
>Personally, I'm sick of it.  I'm tired of being treated like a cockroach
>when I'm a law abiding citizen who takes responsibility for myself and my
>family.  I DO belong in schools, my synagogue, and even the Olympics.  I'm
>certainly more law-abiding than the members of the IOC/SLOC - and they get
>bodyguards.
>
>I think it's time we all get off the back of the bus and just say NO to gun
>control.
>
>Sarah
>
>At 11:20 AM 2/10/99 -0700, you wrote:
>>Notice that, like on Elder Jensen's interview where he called
>>for a multi-party system but Dan Harrie changed that to allege
>>support for the "two-party system", Dan Harrie continues to lie.
>>He knows quite well that homeowners and church officials have
>>full authority to ban anything they like from their premises,
>>and that this bill would instead ban guns from homes and churches
>>unless both the gun and home/meetinghouse owners jump through
>>numerous hoops in advance. He also spins the polls by not
>>accurately reporting the questions asked and the responses
>>given.
>>
>>Notice also that iodine-grabber LaMont Tyler was the sole
>>Republican voting for this bill, and that Dave Jones openly
>>admits he is not concerned about crimes of violence in churches
>>and schools. Perhaps these five scoundrels (the three Democrats
>>on the Committee in addition to Tyler and Jones) actually favor
>>them? Kudos to the eight decent members of the House Judiciary
>>Committee.
>>
>>BTW, what is "the Coalition of Religious Communities"?
>>Is the LDS Corporation of the President on it?
>>
>>Scott
>>
>>http://www.sltrib.com/02101999/politics/politics.htm
>>
>>Utah Politics
>>Concealed Guns Will Still Go to Church, School
>>
>>BY DAN HARRIE THE SALT LAKE TRIBUNE
>>
>>Utah lawmakers on Tuesday rejected public opinion polls and defeated a
>>bill that would ban concealed weapons from schools and churches and give
>>homeowners and Olympic venues clear authority to prohibit firearms.
>>
>>"We have a responsibility to not do just what is popular at the moment
>>but to push principles that are wise and just," said Rep. John Swallow,
>>R-Sandy.
>>
>>Swallow joined with seven other members of the House Judiciary Committee
>>to defeat House Bill 92 on a 8-4 vote. All three Democrats on the
>>committee and Republican Rep. LaMont Tyler, chairman of the panel, voted
>>for the measure.
>>
>>Polls have consistently shown the majority of Utahns favor prohibiting
>>firearms from schools and churches.
>>
>>Supporting the bill sponsored by Minority Leader Dave Jones, D-Salt Lake
>>City, was Republican Gov. Mike Leavitt, the Utah PTA, the Coalition of
>>Religious Communities and the state Commission on Criminal and Juvenile
>>Justice.
>>
>>But gun-rights proponents clearly had the numbers at Tuesday's public
>>hearing, with more than 100 people jammed into the Capitol room and
>>spilling out into the hallway.
>>
>>"Not one child will be safer because of this bill," insisted Rob Bishop,
>>gun lobbyist and chairman of the Utah Republican Party. "You may feel
>>warm and fuzzy inside, but it doesn't solve the problem" of violence in
>>schools or other places.
>>
>>Retired Salt Lake City police Lt. Dennis Tueller called it "foolishness"
>>to prohibit legally licensed concealed firearms in schools and churches.
>>
>>"We're giving the predators in society a better target zone for them
>>to attack," Tueller said.
>>
>>But sponsor Jones countered that his measure did not seek to eliminate
>>the right to carry concealed weapons, just to impose some modest
>>restrictions.
>>
>>"There are some places that guns just don't need to be," Jones said.
>>"I don't believe guns belong in schools."
>>
>>Jones said the main purpose of his proposal was to prevent accidental
>>shootings, not crimes of violence.
>>
>>Gun-rights advocates repeatedly have challenged those in favor of
>>restrictions to point out any examples of injuries or death caused
>>by Utah's approximately 22,000 licensed concealed-weapons carriers.
>>
>>Utah PTA lobbyist Paula Plant recounted several instances where
>>concealed weapons had caused safety concerns in schools.
>>
>>In one case, a substitute teacher took out his concealed weapon and
>>showed it to his class, Plant said. Another time, a parent carrying
>>a concealed weapon displayed the gun to a teacher during a conference
>>and suggested the teacher should act in a certain way.
>>
>>"Those kinds of situations do not make children feel safe in school,"
>>said Plant, and she questioned the training of concealed-permit holders.
>>
>>Linda Hilton, director of the Coalition of Religious Communities, evoked
>>morality in her pleas to keep guns out of churches.
>>
>>"It is morally the right thing for you to do," Hilton said. "Bringing a
>>weapon into a holy and sacred place violates everything that a holy and
>>sacred place stands for."
>>
>>Copyright 1999, The Salt Lake Tribune
>
>
>-
>
>


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Feb 99 07:15:00 -0700
From: [e-mail] (SCOTT BERGESON)
Subject: FW: ALERT!!! TIME TO KILL SB 122!!!

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:14:22 -0700
From: Jim Dexter <[e-mail]>
To: LPUtah Forum <[e-mail]>
Subject: FW: ALERT!!! TIME TO KILL SB 122!!!

Now that HB 92 is dead, it's time to kill its evil twin.

- ----------
TIME TO KILL SB 122!!!

Ok, folks, Waddoups will not completely destroy the bill and it may come up
as early as THIS Friday.  We hope the rest of the Senate and House will
hear the voice of Utahns.  Let's move on a quick education campaign.
Quietly, convincingly, and firmly engage your Senator and Representative in
dialogue and attempt to bring him to our side.  We now need to:

(1) Blitz the ENTIRE SENATE AND HOUSE with e-mail messages (addresses
below).  Tell them to look out for -- and vote no on -- SB 122.  Keep in
mind that this bill will probably pass the Senate.  The true battle will
likely be in the House;

(2) Make personal phone calls, e-mails, faxes, letters, and visits to YOUR
SENATOR AND REPRESENTATIVE (numbers below).  Attempt to engage them as
meaningfully and as often as you can;

(3) Press the Senate Energy, Natural Resources and Agriculture committee
members with additional e-mails.  These people tend to fall in the
leftist-elitist category and might best be approached with arguments that
center on their pride.  For instance, the Olympic Commander will not have
much in the way of legislative oversight:

[e-mail] (Beverly Ann Evans)
[e-mail] (Leonard Blackham)
[e-mail] (Joseph Hull)
[e-mail] (Millie Peterson)
[e-mail] (Lorin Jones)


Remember, we don't deserve to be treated like criminals or second class
citizens -- we are law-abiding Utahns.  In Utah's history of concealed
weapons permits, not one concealed weapons permit holder has EVER committed
a violent crime.  NOT ONE.  We don't need an Olympic Commander to lord over
us and our legislature, we don't need gun control, and we don't need SB 122.

DO NOT PROCRASTINATE!  Start now and do something every day until this bill
is dead!


House Address:
Senate phone: [phone]
Senate fax: [phone]
House phone: [phone]
House fax: [phone]


HOUSE
[e-mail] (Gerry Adair)
[e-mail] (Jeff Alexander)
[e-mail] (Sheryl Allen)
[e-mail] (Eli Anderson)
[e-mail] (Patrice Arent)
[e-mail] (Loretta Baca)
[e-mail] (Trisha Beck)
[e-mail] (Ralph Becker)
[e-mail] (Chad Bennion)
[e-mail] (Ron Bigelow)
[e-mail] (Jackie Biskupski)
[e-mail] (Duane Bourdeaux)
[e-mail] (DeMar Bowman)
[e-mail] (Afton Bradshaw)
[e-mail] (Mel Brown)
[e-mail] (Katherine Bryson)
[e-mail] (Perry Buckner)
[e-mail] (Judy Buffmire)
[e-mail] (Don Bush)
[e-mail] (Craig Buttars)
[e-mail] (Mary Carlson)
[e-mail] (Blake Chard)
[e-mail] (David N. Cox)
[e-mail] (Gary Cox)
[e-mail] (Greg Curtis)
[e-mail] (Margaret Dayton)
[e-mail] (Marda Dillree)
[e-mail] (Carl W. Duckworth)
[e-mail] (Ben C. Ferry)
[e-mail] (Fred J. Fife)
[e-mail] (Lloyd Frandsen)
[e-mail] (Kevin Garn)
[e-mail] (David Gladwell)
[e-mail] (Brent Goodfellow)
[e-mail] (James Gowans)
[e-mail] (Neil A. Hansen)
[e-mail] (Wayne Harper)
[e-mail] (Thomas Hatch)
[e-mail] (Neal Hendrickson)
[e-mail] (Bill Hickman)
[e-mail] (Dave Hogue)
[e-mail] (Kory M. Holdaway)
[e-mail] (Bryan Holladay)
[e-mail] (Dennis Iverson)
[e-mail] (Bradley Johnson)
[e-mail] (Keele Johnson)
[e-mail] (David Jones)
[e-mail] (Brad King)
[e-mail] (Susan Koehn)
[e-mail] (Becky Lockhart)
[e-mail] (Karen W. Morgan)
[e-mail] (Joseph Murray)
[e-mail] (Lowell Nelson)
[e-mail] (Loraine Pace)
[e-mail] (Tammy Rowan)
[e-mail] (Carl Saunders)
[e-mail] (Jack Seitz)
[e-mail] (Ray Short)
[e-mail] (Lou Shurtliff)
[e-mail] (Richard Siddoway)
[e-mail] (Gordon Snow)
[e-mail] (Marlon O. Snow)
[e-mail] (Martin Stephens)
[e-mail] (Nora Stephens)
[e-mail] (Michael Styler)
[e-mail] (John Swallow)
[e-mail] (Jordan Tanner)
[e-mail] (Matt Throckmorton)
[e-mail] (Lamont Tyler)
[e-mail] (David Ure)
[e-mail] (Richard Walsh)
[e-mail] (Glenn Way)
[e-mail] (Bill Wright)
[e-mail] (David Zolman)


SENATE
[e-mail] (Edgar Allen)
[e-mail] (Ron Allen)
[e-mail] (Lane Beattie)
[e-mail] (Leonard Blackham)
[e-mail] (Gene Davis)
[e-mail] (Mike Dmitrich)
[e-mail] (Beverly Ann Evans)
[e-mail] (Mont Evans)
[e-mail] (Karen Hale)
[e-mail] (Parley G. Hellewell)
[e-mail] (Lyle Hillyard)
[e-mail] (Scott Howell)
[e-mail] (Joseph Hull)
[e-mail] (Lorin Jones)
[e-mail] (Paula F. Julander)
[e-mail] (Peter C. Knudson)
[e-mail] (Al Mansell)
[e-mail] (Ed Mayne)
[e-mail] (Robert Montgomery)
[e-mail] (Robert Muhlestein)
[e-mail] (Howard Nielson)
[e-mail] (Millie Peterson)
[e-mail] (Steven Poulton)
[e-mail] (Terry Spencer)
[e-mail] (David Steele)
[e-mail] (Howard Stephenson)
[e-mail] (Pete Suazo)
[e-mail] (John Valentine)
[e-mail] (Michael Waddoups)




- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Feb 99 07:15:00 -0700
From: [e-mail] (SCOTT BERGESON)
Subject: Dan Harrie lies again!

Notice that, like on Elder Jensen's interview where he called
for a multi-party system but Dan Harrie changed that to allege
support for the "two-party system", Dan Harrie continues to lie.
He knows quite well that homeowners and church officials have
full authority to ban anything they like from their premises,
and that this bill would instead ban guns from homes and churches
unless both the gun and home/meetinghouse owners jump through
numerous hoops in advance. He also spins the polls by not
accurately reporting the questions asked and the responses
given.

Notice also that iodine-grabber LaMont Tyler was the sole
Republican voting for this bill, and that Dave Jones openly
admits he is not concerned about crimes of violence in churches
and schools. Perhaps these five scoundrels (the three Democrats
on the Committee in addition to Tyler and Jones) actually favor
them? Kudos to the eight decent members of the House Judiciary
Committee.

BTW, what is "the Coalition of Religious Communities"?
Is the LDS Corporation of the President on it?

Scott

http://www.sltrib.com/02101999/politics/politics.htm

Utah Politics
Concealed Guns Will Still Go to Church, School

BY DAN HARRIE THE SALT LAKE TRIBUNE

Utah lawmakers on Tuesday rejected public opinion polls and defeated a
bill that would ban concealed weapons from schools and churches and give
homeowners and Olympic venues clear authority to prohibit firearms.

"We have a responsibility to not do just what is popular at the moment
but to push principles that are wise and just," said Rep. John Swallow,
R-Sandy.

Swallow joined with seven other members of the House Judiciary Committee
to defeat House Bill 92 on a 8-4 vote. All three Democrats on the
committee and Republican Rep. LaMont Tyler, chairman of the panel, voted
for the measure.

Polls have consistently shown the majority of Utahns favor prohibiting
firearms from schools and churches.

Supporting the bill sponsored by Minority Leader Dave Jones, D-Salt Lake
City, was Republican Gov. Mike Leavitt, the Utah PTA, the Coalition of
Religious Communities and the state Commission on Criminal and Juvenile
Justice.

But gun-rights proponents clearly had the numbers at Tuesday's public
hearing, with more than 100 people jammed into the Capitol room and
spilling out into the hallway.

"Not one child will be safer because of this bill," insisted Rob Bishop,
gun lobbyist and chairman of the Utah Republican Party. "You may feel
warm and fuzzy inside, but it doesn't solve the problem" of violence in
schools or other places.

Retired Salt Lake City police Lt. Dennis Tueller called it "foolishness"
to prohibit legally licensed concealed firearms in schools and churches.

"We're giving the predators in society a better target zone for them
to attack," Tueller said.

But sponsor Jones countered that his measure did not seek to eliminate
the right to carry concealed weapons, just to impose some modest
restrictions.

"There are some places that guns just don't need to be," Jones said.
"I don't believe guns belong in schools."

Jones said the main purpose of his proposal was to prevent accidental
shootings, not crimes of violence.

Gun-rights advocates repeatedly have challenged those in favor of
restrictions to point out any examples of injuries or death caused
by Utah's approximately 22,000 licensed concealed-weapons carriers.

Utah PTA lobbyist Paula Plant recounted several instances where
concealed weapons had caused safety concerns in schools.

In one case, a substitute teacher took out his concealed weapon and
showed it to his class, Plant said. Another time, a parent carrying
a concealed weapon displayed the gun to a teacher during a conference
and suggested the teacher should act in a certain way.

"Those kinds of situations do not make children feel safe in school,"
said Plant, and she questioned the training of concealed-permit holders.

Linda Hilton, director of the Coalition of Religious Communities, evoked
morality in her pleas to keep guns out of churches.

"It is morally the right thing for you to do," Hilton said. "Bringing a
weapon into a holy and sacred place violates everything that a holy and
sacred place stands for."

Copyright 1999, The Salt Lake Tribune



- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Feb 99 07:15:00 -0700
From: [e-mail] (SCOTT BERGESON)
Subject: Re: Concealed Guns Will Still Go to Church, School

On Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:54:29 -0700 S. Thompson replied:

> The Coalition of Religious Communities claims to represent "most major
> faiths in Utah", so I'd assume someone from the LDS Church is a member.

I'll call them and the Church to ask. If anyone already knows or
beats me to it, please copy to [e-mail]. The
Coalition of Religious Communities is located at 347 S. 400 East,
364-7765. From what I gather, 16 denominations in Utah are
represented, among which are the Christ United Methodist Church
at 2375 E. 3300 South, the Park City Community Church, and Our
Saviour's Lutheran Church at 2500 E. 3900 South.

> I DO belong in ... my synagogue.

What is your synagogue's (the officials', since buildings don't have
attitudes) view towards worshippers being armed, and these bills, and
is it or a parent body a member of the Coalition?

Scott



- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Feb 99 06:02:00 -0700
From: [e-mail] (SCOTT BERGESON)
Subject: FW: Text for GOUtah! Leg alert #4 for 10 Feb 1999 1/2

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, Feb 10, 1999, 11:00 PM
From: Gavin Wallace <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Text for GOUtah! Leg alert #4 for 10 Feb 1999

GOUtah! Gun Owners of Utah

Utah's Uncompromising, Independent Gun Rights Network. No Compromise. No
Retreat. No Surrender. Not Now. Not Ever.

Today's Maxim of Liberty:

What we obtain too cheap we esteem too lightly - 'tis dearness that gives
everything its value.

- -Thomas Paine

In order to better serve the Utah firearms owner, we're revising our
GOUtah! legislative alert format. Beginning with this issue, we'll be
giving you a shorter daily update of the changes in status, committee
hearing and floor votes scheduled and action required on time-critical
bills and issues. At the end of every week we'll provide you with a full
review of the past week's events, status of all bills being monitored and
a preview of what to expect in the coming week. We ll also hold our major
policy and support materials for the week-in-review issues. This will
help us cut down on the transmission time for our fax alerts, which is
taking nearly 20 hours each day due to the large volume of subscribers.

We are also working on establishing a website for GOUtah!, which you will
be able to access anytime day on night to get the latest updates and to
get back issues of these alerts and other important information on
firearms freedom in Utah. We'll keep you posted!

If you wish to continue to receive this information under the GOUtah!
banner, you need to do nothing. If you wish to be added to or taken off
the GOUtah! list, please send an e-mail to [e-mail] or send a
fax to [phone] asking to be added to or removed from the GOUtah!
list. If you wish to forward or share this copyrighted information with
others, you are welcome to do so, on the condition that you pass along
the entire document intact and unmodified, and that GOUtah! is clearly
indicated as the original source of the material.

Thank you. Now, let's all get to work! Our rights and freedoms need to
be protected today!

GOUtah! Political and Legislative Alert #4- 10 Feb.1999

Utah State Legislature

You may reach your Utah State Legislator at the following numbers:

Utah House of Representatives: Phone [phone] or Fax [phone]
Utah State Senate: Phone [phone] or Fax [phone]
Utah State Legislature Website: www.le.state.ut.us

The Utah State Legislature is now in session and considering the
following gun-related bills:

Utah State House of Representatives

HB 92 - Weapons and Explosives Restrictions on Private Property,
Schools Churches and Olympic Venues.- Rep. David Jones (D-Dist. 25)

Recommended Position: Strongest Possible Opposition

Status: Tabled in hearing before the House Judiciary Committee- Next
Committee meeting 8:00AM Thursday 11 February 1999 in Room 223 of the
Utah State Capitol.

Action Required: Contact your Utah State Representative at [phone]
or by E-mail asking them to STRONGLY OPPOSE any further restrictions as
to place, time or circumstances on the ability of Utah's gun owners or
CCW holders to possess firearms for any lawful purposes.

STATUS UPDATE AS OF NOON 9 FEB 1999: Due in great part to your combined
efforts, in the House Judiciary Committee hearing of 9 February 1999, HB
92 was tabled on a vote of 7 to 4. Reported as voting against our position
and in favor of moving the bill out of committee were Reps. Gary Cox, Neal
Hendrickson, Patrice Arent and Lamont Tyler. Making the motion to table
the bill was Rep. Bill Hickman.

This means HB 92 is in 'limbo,' and it will appear on the future Judiciary
Committee agendas. There it will remain like a smoldering bomb until it is
sent back to Rules Committee or lifted from the table by a 2/3rds vote of
the committee and either defeated or passed out of the House Judiciary
Committee. This action means after all the crowds leave, committee members
may act out of the glare of the public and media spotlight. Only one other
bill is on the Judiciary Committee's agenda for their next meeting on
Thursday, 11 February 1999 8:00AM in Room 223 at the Capitol. This one
could blow up again at any time.

IT IS CRITICAL THAT EVERYONE IMMEDIATELY CONTACT THE FOLLOWING HOUSE
JUDICIARY COMMITTEE MEMBERS: Reps. Glenn Way, Chad Bennion, Katherine
Bryson, Greg Curtis, Bill Hickman, Marty Stephens, John Swallow to THANK
THEM FOR THEIR SUPPORT in tabling this bill and GETTING THEIR FIRM PROMISE
TO VOTE AGAINST ANY ATTEMPT TO LIFT THE BILL FROM THE TABLE OR PASS IT OUT
TO THE HOUSE FOR FURTHER CONSIDERATION. This is the most critical and
dangerous gun bill before the Utah Legislature at this time. YOU MUST ALL
ACT IMMEDIATELY TO PREVENT THIS BILL FROM GOING ANY FURTHER! The opposition
and the media will be out in force stumping for this bill, so you must
counter that effort with an even stronger effort of your own.

Utah House of Representatives: Phone [phone] or Fax [phone]

Email Addresses of House Judiciary Committee Members:

[e-mail] (Bill Hickman) [e-mail] (Chad
Bennion) [e-mail] (Greg Curtis) [e-mail]
(Katherine Bryson) [e-mail] (Martin Stephens)
[e-mail] (John Swallow) [e-mail] (Glenn Way)

This bill would create an open-ended list of prohibited locations and
situations for firearms possession at schools, churches and in any private
residence, including by valid Utah CCW holders. Violation would be a class
'C' misdemeanor. These prohibitions would be permanent. Also allows Director
of Utah DPS to declare any Olympic venue or site a 'controlled access area'
which prohibits all firearm possession by anyone including valid Utah CCW
holders. Violation would be a 3rd degree felony. Bill would become effective
upon the Governor's signature and Olympic provisions won't sunset until end
of year 2002, some 10 months after the Olympics close. Intent is clearly to
destroy current Utah CCW permit program and with it your rights of
self-defense.

Points to make with Legislators include: Utah CCW holders and lawful
firearms owners are not a threat to themselves or the public and have
behaved in an exemplary manner. If we trust school teachers and school
staff with the education of our children, we should be able to trust them
to be safe and responsible if they choose to possess a firearm for lawful
self-defense. If a church wishes to prohibit their members from possession
of a firearm as a condition of membership, they may do so, but such
prohibition is not binding on non-members and is not a matter of civil or
criminal law. Restrictions on self defense and possession of an instrument
thereof do not emerge from or attach to ownership or control of property,
and would create an unworkable nightmare of restricted areas and locations.
No property owner has the right to endanger your safety or restrict your
ability to protect yourself. Utah's CCW holders are not now and will not
be a security risk to the athletes, officials or spectators of the 2002
Olympics. Olympic organizers reportedly will provide some 3500 private
bodyguards to Olympic VIP s, but seek to deny you the same ability to
protect yourself and your family. You re getting stuck with the Winter
Olympic hassle and the tax bill, so don t let your gun rights go down
the tube as well.
[ Continued In Next Message... ]



- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Feb 99 06:02:00 -0700
From: [e-mail] (SCOTT BERGESON)
Subject: FW: Text for GOUtah! Leg alert #4 for 10 Feb 1999 2/2

[ ...Continued From Previous Message ]
HB 237 - Department of Public Safety Fee Consolidation - Rep. Blake Chard
(R-Dist. 15)

Recommended Position: Strong Opposition

Status: Passed House Committee and is on House Floor for Floor Vote.
Floor amendments are expected and could reinstate or even increase these
fees. This bill must be defeated.

Action Required: Contact your Utah State Representative at [phone]
or by E-mail asking them to OPPOSE any shift in firearms permit fee
setting authority from the Legislature to any executive branch of
government, including DPS.

This bill gives full authority to the Utah Department of Public Safety to
set numerous fees and create new fees for their services including Brady
background checks and CCW permit applications and renewals. Amendments
offered have reduced proposed initial fee increases from $15.00 back to
$7.50 for Brady, from $50.00 back to $35.00 for a CCW application, and from
$25.00 to $15.00 for CCW renewals. DPS may create new fees including $10.00
for a replacement permit and $7.50 for a late renewal fee.

The basic problem remains that DPS may increase fees at a whim by
administrative rule, and give all authority in this area to an un-elected
bureaucracy. Information from DPS suggests these fees and proposed fee
increases cannot be justified based on their costs, and the potential for
raising such fees to an abusive, punitive of prohibitive level to discourage
retail firearms purchase or lawful carrying of a firearm for self-defense by
Utah citizens is very high. Raising these fees could mean only the rich may
afford to purchase or carry a firearm. All oversight of such fee structures
and use fees must be kept under the authority of the State Legislature and
their normal budgetary and fiscal oversight.

Utah State Senate

SB 122 - Controlled Access Areas in Olympic Venues - Sen. Mike Waddoups
(R-Dist 6)

Recommended Position: Strong Opposition

Status: Senate Energy, Natural Resources and Agriculture Committee. The
bill will be heard on Friday 12 February 1999, at 8:00 AM in Room 414 of
the State Capitol.

Action Required: Action Required: Contact your Utah State Senator TODAY at
[phone] or by E-Mail and ask them to OPPOSE this bill. Also contact
the members of the Senate Energy, Natural Resources and Agriculture
Committee.: Senators Beverly Evans, Leonard Blackham, Lorin Jones, Joseph
Hull, Millie Peterson. and ask them to oppose the bill in committee.

Senate Email addresses for Senate Energy, Natural Resources and Agriculture
Committee. include:

[e-mail] (Beverly Ann Evans) [e-mail] (Leonard
Blackham) [e-mail] (Joseph Hull) [e-mail] (Millie
Peterson) [e-mail] (Lorin Jones)

Language is virtually identical to David Jones' HB 91 with regard to
restricting Olympic venues. (See comments on HB 91) In light of the
ongoing corruption now becoming apparent among IOC, USOC and SLOC
officials and politicians, it is unthinkable that Utah's finest citizens,
after demonstrating a lifetime of responsible moral and ethical behavior
should be stripped of their right and ability to defend themselves.

Several other local 'gun rights' groups, as reported in the mainstream
press, appear to be endorsing or supporting this bill, or offering only
marginal resistance. There are some reports of attempts by some 'gun
rights' groups to rewrite the bill, but all attempts seem to embrace the
concept that CCW holders are some sort of security risk and must be banned
from the Olympic venues. GoUtah! finds this concept unacceptable and will
not be a party to this compromise language or embrace the concept of CCW
holders as a high risk group in any manner. If you personally think you
shouldn't be lawfully carrying a firearm at an Olympic event, that's your
choice, but don t presume to make that decision for someone else.

SB 204 - Items Prohibited in Correctional Facilities - Sen. Mike Waddoups
(R-Dist 6)

Recommended Position: Strong Opposition

Status: Passed by Unanamous vote of the Senate Transportation and Public
Safety Committee on Wednesday, 10 February 1999. The bill now goes before
the entire Senate on a "fast-track" via the Consent Calender.

Action Required: Contact your Utah State Senator TODAY at [phone]
or by E-Mail and ask them to OPPOSE this bill.

This bill would further weaken the existing 'secure facilities' law by
allowing any location or facility serving or contracting with any
Corrections agency to ban CCW of other legal firearms on or near their
grounds, including shared parking areas, sidewalks and other public access
settings. These facilities could include treatment centers for substance
abusers, halfway houses or other residential settings, private correctional
facilities, juvenile offender foster care homes and other similar settings.
Also potentially included are properties set aside for state or local
correctional facilities, including future sites. Imagine breaking the law
for pheasant hunting for entering onto state or county property that is set
aside for a future jail that won't be built for 10 years!

Existing secure facilities laws are currently adequate, and if these
settings need to be secure areas, they must comply with current secure
facilities laws and conditions. This bill must be opposed and defeated.


The GOUtah! Political Scoreboard for 10 Feb. 1999

Won: HB 26 - Withdrawn by Sponsor

Pending Win: HB 92 - Tabled in House Judiciary Committee 9 Feb 1999

Pending Loss: SB 91 - Passed Both House and Senate and Enrolled for Gov's
Signature.

Lost: None as yet.

That concludes the GOUtah! Political and Legislative Alert #3 for 9 Feb.
1999. We hope this information will be of assistance to you in defending
your firearms rights. We will have more information for you throughout the
Utah Legislative Session.

Remember that getting this information is meaningless unless YOU ACT ON IT
TODAY. If you just read it and dump it in the trash, your gun rights, and
the gun rights of future generations go in the trash with it. Get involved,
get active and get vocal!

Gavin Wallace Blue '96 R1100RTL


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Feb 99 06:02:00 -0700
From: [e-mail] (SCOTT BERGESON)
Subject: Re: Concealed Guns Will Still Go to Church, School

On Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:54:29 -0700 S. Thompson replied:

> The Coalition of Religious Communities claims to represent "most major
> faiths in Utah", so I'd assume someone from the LDS Church is a member.

The Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of
Latter-day Saints isn't a member of the Coalition of Religious Communities.

Scott



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Date: Fri, 12 Feb 99 06:02:00 -0700
From: [e-mail] (SCOTT BERGESON)
Subject: FW: gun maker liability jury trial fiasco

Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 20:14:29 -0800
From: Steve Washam <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail]
Cc: [e-mail], [e-mail]
Subject: gun maker liability jury trial fiasco

[e-mail] wrote:

>NEW YORK (AP) -- A federal jury found several gun makers
>liable Thursday in seven New York City-area shootings
>because of negligent marketing practices.  Other
>manufacturers were cleared.

NPR reported today before the verdict that there was one
juror holding out for acquittal in what NPR termed an
attempt at jury nullification.  The independent thinker was
reportedly concerned that a decision against gun makers
would set a bad precedent.  According to NPR, other jurors
reported this non-conformance to the judge, and asked that
the troublesome juror be removed.  The judge instructed the
jurors that they may not judge the law, and must find
according to the directions he had given them.

Steve Washam
to the best of his fuzzy memory




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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 17:59:17 -0700
From: "S. Thompson" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Concealed Guns Will Still Go to Church, School

At 07:15 AM 2/11/99 -0700, you wrote:

>> I DO belong in ... my synagogue.
>
>What is your synagogue's (the officials', since buildings don't have
>attitudes) view towards worshippers being armed, and these bills, and
>is it or a parent body a member of the Coalition?

I honestly don't have hard answers to your questions.  No one's ever
brought up the subject of worshippers being armed.  I did once ask if there
was anything in Jewish religious law that would prohibit a Jew from
carrying firearms, or if such behavior would be considered incorrect, and
was told that no such prohibitions exist.

While I wasn't even aware of the Coalition until a couple of days ago, I'd
be extremely surprised if my synagogue were a member of it.  Synagogues are
much more autonomous than LDS churches, so it's entirely possible that some
Jewish synagogues or organizations are members, although I certainly hope
not! <g>

Sarah

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 00:08:55 -0700
From: "S. Thompson" <[e-mail]>
Subject: SB 122 - The Good, The Bad, The Ugly

As most of you know, SB 122 (Olympic Gun Control) was heard by the Energy,
Natural Resources and Agriculture Committee this morning.

Sen. Waddoups presented a substitute bill immediately before the hearing,
so no one got more than about 5 minutes to look at it, and most never even
saw it.  Obviously no one read it carefully.  While this is unfortunate,
apparently final language wasn't completed until last night.

The bill has been almost completely rewritten.  Substantive changes:
1. Adds that "the division" (DPS or BCI) may not deny suspend or revoke a
concealed firearm permit solely for a single conviction for an infraction
violation of 76-10-5."  This sounds like it protects CCW holders from
having their permits revoked for infractions, but I have problems with the
"may not" which I think should read "shall not".  Otherwise it's still at
the discretion of BCI.   (Any legal experts out there?)
2.  Limits the Olympics section of the bill to "between Jan 25, 2002 and
April 1, 2002.
3.  The "Olympic Commander" language remains.
4.  It does not define Olympic venue "secure areas", but does require that
they be marked, and have clearly marked entrances with metal detectors.
5.  Provides that the Commander MAY provide secure weapons storage areas.
This is worthless, unless the language is changed to SHALL provide.
6.  Requires that the state shall assume liability "for any injury where an
individual can establish that: if a person licensed to carry a concealed
fireams had been able to access the concealed firearm, the injury would not
have occurred to the individual or others."  This does NOT include
liability for improper or negligent actions on the part of Olympic security.
7.  Penalty is a class B misdemeanor if it involves a firearm "knowingly or
intentionally" transported.  This would appear to protect someone who
simply forgot he was carrying, although I suspect he could still be
prosecuted.  Woody Powell says this should be changed to "knowingly AND
intentionally".
8.  SURPRISE!  Churches and private residences are back.  The new SB 122
provides that a "person, including a person licensed to carry a concealed
firearm after having received notice that firearms are prohibited, may not
knowingly and intentionally transport a firearms into a house of worship or
a private residence.  Notice can be verbal or by posting a sign.  Violation
is an infraction.

Discussion:
1. If the "may not" language is changed to "shall not", this would benefit
gun owners since current law a CCW permit may be suspended for an infraction.
2.  The limits are acceptable, assuming one believes a gun ban is acceptable.
3.  The Olympic Commander is Craig Dearden, Commissioner of Public Safety.
I believe Commissioner Dearden is an honorable man.  However, this is too
much power to invest in one person, especially since he may be subject to
pressure from the many federal agencies involved.
4.  This needs to be clarified to require clearly visible boundaries, i.e
building walls, fences, etc.  It would also theoretically be possible to
fence off public areas (such as the Gallivan Center) and declare them
"secure facilities".  While I have no reason to believe this WILL be done,
the law needs to be tightened.
5.  "May provide" is nonsense.  It's like saying you "may" pay your taxes
if you so choose.  SLOC says they will not provide safe storage because it
"costs money" and they can't afford it.  Considering what's being spent on
the Olympics, this is a rather lame excuse.  Also, there is no requirement
that the secure storage be in reasonable proximity to the event or the
entrance.
6.  Both SLOC and the State have said that they absolutely will not accept
liability.  (They also claim no one will insure them, although outside
sources tell me this is not true.)  The committee also voiced objections to
the liability language but felt it should be removed on the Senate floor.
Expect this section to be stricken.
7.  I'm not sure if this is a problem or not.  The changes suggested by
Powell seem reasonable.
8.  While I find this language offensive, it does tend to clarify existing
criminal trespass law, which already provides that a church or private
residence owner/lessee may ask anyone to leave their property.  It also
reduces the penalty from a misdemeanor to an infraction.  However, there
are some potential problems with this language.  One concern is that this
does not require churches or private residences to accept liability for the
consequences of banning firearms.  More important, it gives decision-making
authority to "the owner, lessee, or person with lawful right of possession".
These three entities may be in conflict.  Can an owner prevent a lessee
from keeping firearms on his property?  Can a mortgage company prevent a
home-owner from keeping firearms?  It seems to me (and I'm not an attorney)
that such conflicts would inevitably arise and would have to be decided by
the courts.  (Input from attorneys welcome again!)

Sen. Waddoups introduced the bill by saying that he believes the bill is an
undue restriction of Constitutional rights, and that he would personally be
happy if it were killed.  He is sponsoring it because he believes that by
doing so he can protect gun owners from more restrictive bills.  He also
mentioned that he had received threats in connection with this bill.

Based on the new language, USSC chose to support this bill.  USSC feels
that, although offensive, this bill is the best that gun owners are likely
to do, and an Olympic gun ban is inevitable.  They would rather support
this bill than see a more restrictive bill passed by someone else.

Speaking in favor of the bill:
Elwood Powell, Chair, USSC
Leonard Wojcik, USSC
Rob Bishop, USSC
Bill Shaw, SLOC
William Nash, Utahns Against Gun Violence (who opposed the church and
private residence language as being too weak).

Speaking in opposition to to the bill:
Sarah Thompson for Nolympics
Bill Szas (great job!)
Jim Dexter, Chair, Libertarian Party of Utah
Steve Stromness, Grassroots
Janalee Tobias, Women Against Gun Control
Charles Bradford (retired legislator)

Committee members present: Beverly Evans (Chair), Lorin Jones, Joseph Hull,
Millie Peterson.  Senator Evans was an excellent chair, and allowed
everyone who wished to speak a reasonable time to do so.  However, several
attendees noted that it was clear that the committee members had decided
how to vote before they even saw the bill language.  We had the pretense of
participatory democracy, but it was really all a show.

Sen. Lorin Jones distinguished himself with his impassioned defense of our
rights:  "This is one of the most blatant infringements on the
Constitutional rights of American citizens that I have ever seen in my
life."  He went on to say that disarming citizens would not have prevented
the Munich Olympics massacre, and invoked the memories of the Nazi death
camps.  He also objected to the inclusion of churches and private
residences.  Thank you Sen. Jones!

Sen. Peterson moved to pass the bill out favorably, Sen. Hull made a minor
(and unobjectionable) amendment, and voiced concern about the liabiity
provisions.  The bill was passed with a favorable recommendation, by a vote
of 3-1, with Sen. Jones opposed.

SUMMARY:  SB 122 was passed out of committee favorably.  It will now go to
the Senate floor.  I expect that the liability language will be removed
from the bill on the Senate floor.  The secure storage language is
unenforceable.  The church and private residence language is unnecessary,
and at least needs clarification.  In other words, SB 122 is still
unacceptable, and should still be OPPOSED.

WHAT YOU CAN DO:
1. Contact Senator Lorin Jones and thank him for his support.  He was the
sole vote against this bill and should know he has our support and gratitude.
2. Contact as many members of the Senate as possible and ask them to OPPOSE
SB 122.  Do what you can to educate them about the problems with the bill,
Make sure you contact your OWN senator!
3.  While it is entirely appropriate to tell your elected representatives
that they will win (or lose) your vote based on how they vote, but
otherwise, DO NOT MAKE THREATS.   It does not reflect well on us when bill
sponsors say they have been threatened.
4. Governor Leavitt supports gun control.  Please let him know your
thoughts on this issue.
5.  Remember: This is NOT about personalities.  I believe that the members
of USSC, Rob Bishop, Mike Waddoups and all involved are doing what they
believe is correct, even if I don't necessarily agree with them.  This is
about PRINCIPLE!  The bill should be opposed because it needlessly
restricts the constitutional rights of gun owners who have done nothing to
deserve it.  If you believe that innocent gun owners should not be
penalized because of the actions of criminals and terrorists, you should
OPPOSE SB 122.

You should, of course, consider all viewpoints carefully.  Other points of
view are available at:
GOUtah!  http://www.slpsa.org/goutah!  (This site seems to be down at the
moment.)
USSC  http://www.UtahShootingSports.org
Remember that YOU have the responsibility to be an informed citizen.  No
one can do that for you.

Apologies again for the length (and lateness) of this post.  It's been a
long, dismal day.

Sarah



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End of utah-firearms-digest V2 #126
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