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Subject: utah-firearms-digest V2 #73
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utah-firearms-digest     Wednesday, June 17 1998     Volume 02 : Number 073




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 11:16:29 -0600
From: "larry larsen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: stalone

type Mr. Stalone a letter and send it to:
Fan Mail: 7685 Debeaubien Dr.  Orlando, FL 32835  USA

Larry S. Larsen
http://larsenfamily.com/russian_stove/
_=_____________________________!
 <|------==(______)--------              |____|
  |/////_____________45 ACP___|___|
   \       /|(    )/
   /      /) ___|
  /     o/
 /       /
/o___/


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 11:17:07 -0600
From: "larry larsen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fw: Stallone on Guns in America

- -----Original Message-----
From: larry larsen <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Sunday, June 14, 1998 11:03 AM
Subject: Fw: Stallone on Guns in America


|type Mr. Stalone a letter and send it to:
|Fan Mail: 7685 Debeaubien Dr.  Orlando, FL 32835  USA
|
|-----Original Message-----
|From: SCOTT BERGESON
|Date: Sunday, June 14, 1998 12:05 AM
|Subject: Stallone on Guns in America
|
|
||
||---------- Forwarded message ----------
||Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 17:05:04 -0700
||From: Liberty or Death <[e-mail]>
||To: [e-mail], [e-mail],
||    [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail]
||Subject: Stallone on Guns in America
||
||QUOTE BY SYLVESTER STALLONE ABOUT GUNS
||
||MRC
||6/12
||
||The only way to make America safe: go house to house and confiscate
||every gun. Reacting to the shooting death of Phil Hartman, actor
||Sylvester Stallone who is best known for glamorizing in his Rambo
||films military weapons not even the NRA wants legal, urged the repeal
||of the 2nd amendment.
||
||MRC entertainment analyst Tom Johnson transcribed his ranting from a
||June 8 segment on Access Hollywood, the show carried by NBC-owned
||stations and syndicated to other markets.
||
||Stallone conceded, "I know we use guns in films," but insisted the
||time has come "to be a little more accountable and realize that this
||is an escalating problem that's eventually going to lead to, I think,
||urban warfare."
||
||Access Hollywood then showed a clip from a comment he made in London
||a few weeks ago: "Until America, door to door, takes every handgun,
||this is what you're gonna have. It's pathetic. It really is pathetic.
||It's sad. We're living in the Dark Ages over there."
||
||"Over there"? Yes, the man who wants to control what Americans have
||in their homes is now living in England. Back to Stallone's interview
||with the show, he demanded that the 2nd amendment be abandoned: "It
||has to be stopped, and someone really has to go on the line, a certain
||dauntless political figure, and say, `It's ending, it's over, all bets
||are off. It's not 200 years ago, we don't need this anymore, and the
||rest of the world doesn't have it. Why should we?'"
||
||- Monte
||
|| --------------------------------------------------------------------
||  "Maybe freedom's just one of those things that you can't inherit."
||               - Peter Bradford, in the film "Amerika"
|| --------------------------------------------------------------------
||
||
||
||-
||
||
|
|


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 22:20:59 -0600
From: "larry larsen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fw: SLC/Ogden gun shows

can't some of you northerners help this fellow?
larry
- -----Original Message-----
From: 4414 ACS/B <[e-mail]>
To: 'larry larsen' <[e-mail]>
Date: Sunday, June 14, 1998 2:54 PM
Subject: RE: SLC/Ogden gun shows


|OK, Thanks anyway.
|Rick
|
|> ----------
|> From: larry larsen[SMTP:[e-mail]]
|> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 1998 7:14 PM
|> To: 4414 ACS/B
|> Subject: Re: SLC/Ogden gun shows
|>
|> Rick,
|> Sorry I can't help you very much, I live in St. George, and am not up
|> on the
|> SLC gun shows.  But I forwarded your message and they can tell you
|> about it.
|> Larry
|> -----Original Message-----
|> From: 4414 ACS/B <[e-mail]>
|> To: '[e-mail]' <[e-mail]>
|> Date: Sunday, June 14, 1998 5:17 AM
|> Subject: SLC/Ogden gun shows
|>
|>
|> |Mr. Larsen:
|> |
|> |Hello. I'm writing you from overseas. I'm active duty USAF and reside
|> in
|> |Layton. I'll return to Utah around 4 July.  Can you tell me if there
|> are
|> |any upcoming gunshows in the SLC/Ogden areas (Jul-Aug timeframe)?  I
|> |have no other access to this info.  I ask for two reasons:
|> |
|> |1) I'm looking to purchase a Glock, and
|> |2) I'm looking to take the CCP class which I know is offered at some
|> gun
|> |shows.
|> |
|> |Would you happen to be the same person?
|> |
|> |Thanks,
|> |
|> |Rick Charles
|> |
|> |[e-mail]
|> |[phone]
|> |
|>
|


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 13:53:45 -0700
From: DAVID SAGERS <[e-mail]>
Subject: stalone -Forwarded

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To: "utah firearms" <[e-mail]>
Subject: stalone
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 11:16:29 -0600
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type Mr. Stalone a letter and send it to:
Fan Mail: 7685 Debeaubien Dr.  Orlando, FL 32835  USA

Larry S. Larsen
http://larsenfamily.com/russian_stove/
_=_____________________________!
 <|------==(______)--------              |____|
  |/////_____________45 ACP___|___|
   \       /|(    )/
   /      /) ___|
  /     o/
 /       /
/o___/


- -



- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 15:35:25 -0700
From: DAVID SAGERS <[e-mail]>
Subject: [Fwd: Fw: NRA - House Judiciary comm. June 10] -Forwarded

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Subject: [Fwd: Fw: NRA - House Judiciary comm. June 10]
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Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 20:24:06 -0800
From: Jon Roland  <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fw: NRA - House Judiciary comm. June 10
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We need letters to Congress on this.

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------

TESTIMONY OF TANYA K. METAKSA
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR
NATIONAL RIFLE ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA
INSTITUTE FOR LEGISLATIVE ACTION
ON H.R. 3949
THE "NO GUN TAX ACT OF 1998"=20

HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON CRIME
JUNE 11, 1998=20

Chairman McCollum, members of the subcommittee, I thank you for inviting=20
me to testify in support of the "No Gun Tax Act of 1998," introduced by=20
the gentleman from Georgia, Mr. Barr.=20

I represent the nearly three million members of the National Rifle=20
Association. Our members come from all walks of life, and from all=20
levels of American society. I can certainly testify to you from personal=20
experience -- answering my phone and reading my e-mail -- that our=20
members were extraordinarily unhappy when press accounts began to appear=20
about the FBI's plan to charge a "user fee" for background checks=20
conducted under the Brady Act's permanent instant check system.=20

They had good reason to be concerned. The proposed fee is nothing less=20
than a federal gun tax on the exercise of Second Amendment rights by=20
law-abiding Americans. It is unauthorized by any applicable law, and it=20
will have its greatest impact on low-income Americans and on funding for=20
state conservation programs.=20

Mr. Chairman, as you know, the NRA was very closely involved in the=20
drafting of the Brady Act's language concerning the instant check=20
system. During those discussions, the idea of charging a fee for=20
background checks was not only considered, but rejected on the basis=20
that identifying the rare criminal or other prohibited person who=20
attempts a commercial gun purchase is a public good, and paying for it a=20
public responsibility. As a result, the Brady Act contains no language=20
authorizing the charging of a fee, nor have Brady Act supporters ever=20
tried to amend the Act to allow for such a fee.=20

Instead, the FBI points to appropriations language passed before the=20
Brady Act, in 1991, which was intended to allow for fees on employment-=20
or licensing-related background screening through the National Criminal=20
Information Center (NCIC), which is a separate system from the National=20
Instant Check System (NICS). Obviously, the 1991 language the FBI refers=20
to couldn't have been intended to allow for a fee under an Act that=20
wasn't passed until two years later.=20

The next question is, who will bear the burden of this new gun tax? At=20
the individual level, it will fall most heavily on ordinary working=20
Americans of modest means. For many Americans -- including some who must=20
hunt for subsistence rather than for sport, as well as those most=20
vulnerable to crime and most sorely in need of firearms for self-defense=20
- -- a tax of thirteen to thirty dollars will be a prohibitive addition to=20
the cost of a simple, affordable hunting rifle or self-defense handgun.=20

Beyond that, the added cost will likely have an adverse effect on the=20
overall level of gun sales, which will be a major drain on the funds=20
collected through the Pittman-Robertson excise tax. That tax, which gun=20
owners have willingly paid for over sixty years, funds state fish and=20
game agencies and wildlife conservation programs, which could well=20
suffer from the imposition of this new tax.=20

Finally, we have concerns about the tax from administrative and=20
jurisdictional grounds. The FBI has essentially conjured the authority=20
to levy a tax. Since it derives its authority for the tax from the=20
imagination, only the imagination limits the tax we will be charged=20
today and how much more we might be charged tomorrow. Moreover, the FBI=20
has also created the authority to obtain and retain the taxes collected=20
- -- directly -- rather than transfer the funds to the Treasury. The FBI=20
is a highly respected law enforcement team. It is not, however, the U.S.=20
Congress. If the agency perceives a need for a budget increase, it=20
should make its case before Congress, not start collecting new taxes=20
from American gun owners.=20

As an aside, I'd like to mention another concern that many members have=20
brought to my attention. Although I am aware this isn't an FBI matter,=20
it certainly is troublesome. At some of the federal seminars on the=20
instant check system, licensees have been told that a background check=20
will be required for returns of firearms to their owners, both by=20
pawnbrokers and by gunsmiths.=20

The law says that a background check is required for a "transfer" of a=20
firearm. Yet in these cases, there is no change in title or ownership --=20
that is, no "transfer" -- of the firearm; a pawned firearm is still=20
owned by the individual while it is held as collateral for a loan, and=20
of course a firearm that is brought to a gunsmith or factory for=20
customization or repair is still owned by the individual who wants the=20
work done. It is a legal absurdity to say that a gun owner who sends a=20
defective firearm back to the factory, or brings a gun to his local=20
gunsmith for a minor repair, has performed a "transfer" for purposes of=20
the Gun Control Act and should have to undergo a background check to get=20
back his own property. To charge a fee in this situation just adds=20
insult to injury. We would urge the FBI and the BATF to remedy this=20
situation administratively, and if it is not remedied, we hope the=20
subcommittee will consider an appropriate legislative solution.=20

I would like to turn to the second section of Representative Barr's=20
bill, which would forbid the FBI to retain records of approved checks.=20
As I said earlier, the NRA worked very closely with this subcommittee=20
during the drafting of the Brady Act, and I am sure many of the members=20
of the subcommittee will remember that maintaining the privacy of gun=20
owners was of paramount importance to us then, as it is now.=20

For that reason, the Brady Act clearly states that upon approval of a=20
firearms transaction, the instant check system "shall ... destroy all=20
records of the system with respect to the call (other than the=20
identifying number and the date the number was assigned) and all records=20
of the system relating to the transfer." 18 USC =A7922(t)(2).=20

The Act doesn't say that the records can be maintained for 18 months. It=20
doesn't say that the FBI can decide to do whatever it wants to do with=20
the records. It says the system "shall destroy" the records.=20

This is consistent with other provisions of federal law, such as the=20
Firearms Owners' Protection Act of 1986, which stated in part, that no=20
"rule or regulation ... may require that records required to be=20
maintained under this chapter or any portion of the contents of such=20
records, be recorded at or transferred to a facility owned, managed, or=20
controlled by the United States, or any political subdivision thereof,=20
nor that any system of registration of firearms, firearms owners, or=20
firearms transactions or dispositions be established." Pub.L. 99-308,=20
May 19, 1986, 100 Stat. 456.=20

Even more outrageously, the FBI is proposing to violate the Brady Act=20
itself, which specifies that:


"No department, agency, officer, or employee of the United States may -=20

"(1) require that any record or portion thereof generated by the system=20
established under this section may be recorded at or transferred to a=20
facility owned, managed, or controlled by the United States or any State=20
or political subdivision thereof; or=20

"(2) use the system established under this section to establish any=20
system for the registration of firearms, firearm owners, or firearm=20
transactions or dispositions except with respect to person, prohibited=20
by section 922 (g) or (n) of title 18, United Stated Code State law,=20
from receiving a firearm." Sec. 103(I), Public Law 103-159, 107 Stat.=20
1542 (Nov. 30, 1993).=20


We believe that the FBI would be hard pressed to explain how their=20
proposed 18-month record retention squares with these prohibitions,=20
since they clearly are planning to retain portions of required records=20
in a federal facility, and to establish a de facto system of=20
registration of firearm transactions and gun owners themselves.=20

The creation of a gun registration system is possibly the most dangerous=20
step the federal government can take toward destroying Americans' Second=20
Amendment rights. The lessons of history are vivid in the minds of gun=20
owners who value their rights. From gun confiscation schemes launched by=20
the former Soviet Union against Lithuania to turn-guns-in-or-go-to-jail=20
policies in California, gun lists become gun losses, and gun owners know=20
it. In December, 1993, when the gun owner licensing scheme known as=20
'Brady II' was introduced by Handgun Control, Inc., and Rep. Charles=20
Schumer, the proposal drew immediate fire from law enforcement.=20
Fraternal Order of Police President Dewey Stokes said he opposed "a=20
situation where we have gun registration." Echoing this sentiment was=20
South Carolina FOP President Charles Canterbury who said, that law=20
enforcement officers "are adamantly opposed to registration of guns.=20

Time after time, firearms registration systems have led inexorably=20
toward firearms confiscation, despite all the promises of anti-gun=20
politicians, bureaucrats, and media figures. In New York City, for=20
example, the New York Times editorialized that the city's 1967 rifle=20
registration law was "... not ... to prohibit but to control dangerous=20
weapons." In 1991, following passage of a new city gun ban, some owners=20
of legally registered rifles received letters ordering them to turn in=20
those firearms. Just last year in Washington state, Initiative 676 -- a=20
gun owner licensing and registration scheme -- was soundly rejected by=20
voters 71 to 29 percent. It appears axiomatic that registration is=20
anathema to liberty.=20

Mr. Chairman, the NRA has supported instant check systems for ten years,=20
based on our desire to create an efficient system to effectively screen=20
criminals from buying guns at the retail level while protecting the=20
privacy of honest gun owners. In 1993, we believed that the permanent=20
provisions of the Brady Act had created such a system. But the FBI's=20
plans to use the system to burden gun buyers with an unjustified and=20
unauthorized tax on their right to keep and bear arms, and to create an=20
intrusive and unlawful gun owner registration system, have sorely=20
strained our support.=20

In conclusion, I would urge the subcommittee to heed the words of Chief=20
Justice Marshall, who stated that "the power to tax is the power to=20
destroy." I would add that the power to register firearms is the power=20
to confiscate them. Representative Barr's bill would prevent the FBI=20
from violating the letter and intent of the Brady Act in both of those=20
areas and restore the instant check to the purpose for which it was=20
intended.

[Neither the National Rifle Association of America nor any entity it=20
represents has received any federal grant, contract, or subcontract in=20
the current and preceding two fiscal years.]=20
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Constitution Society, 1731 Howe Av #370, Sacramento, CA 95825
916/568-1022, 916/450-7941VM         Date: 06/14/98  Time: 20:24:06
http://www.constitution.org/     mailto:[e-mail]
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D


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- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Jun 98 20:14:00 -0700
From: [e-mail] (SCOTT BERGESON)
Subject: So much Due Process

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 21:35:16 -0400
From: "Mark A. Smith" <[e-mail]>
To: SNET <[e-mail]>, PIML <[e-mail]>,
    L & J <[e-mail]>,
    David Rydel <[e-mail]>,
    Boris Tiraspols <[e-mail]>
Cc: Ray Southwell <[e-mail]>,
    Norm Olson <[e-mail]>
Subject: So much Due Process

I have a copy of this letter, and it is available for faxing.
Remember when Comrade Clinton was elected? He fired EVERY U.S.
Attorney in the country, and replaced them with his personally
selected yes men, or should I say henchmen?

The police-state tactics demanded by this US Attorney are in
total disregard of the 4th Amendment. Isn't it too bad that
this bill will put the burden of proof on the government where
it belongs? What is wrong with that?! Isn't that what the
Constitution is about? H.R. 1835 would stop the unconstitutional
seizure and forfeiture of money and property. Just think, they
would actually need real evidence for a change, to stop what
they have been doing now for many years.

Call your elected representatives and support H.R. 1835
as soon as possible.

Mark Smith
__________________________________________________________________

                                        U.S. Department of Justice
 [U.S. DoJ Seal]
 [phone]                         United States Attorney
                                        Eastern District of Michigan
                                        211 W. Fort Street
                                        Suite 2001
                                        Detroit, Michigan 48226

                                        May 15, 1998

Dear Fellow Law Enforcement Officer:

At the beginning of this Congress, Congressman Henry Hyde and John
Conyers introduced a bill (H.R. 1835) which would significantly
curtail asset forfeiture. In response to strong opposition of federal,
state and local law enforcement to this bill, the Department of Justice
worked with Congressmen Hyde and Conyers to produce a compromise bill
(H.R. 1965), which the House Judiciary  Committee approved last summer.
This bill would achieve reforms to civil forfeiture that would be
accepetable to the Department and enhance forfeiture in certain respects.

We now understand that because of vocal opposition to H.R. 1965 from
the anti-forfeiture activists whose goal is to diminish our ability
to use this law enforcement tool, Chairman Hyde has decided to abandon
this compromise bill and advance a version of the original bill. Passage
of a bill based upon H.R. 1835 would be very harmful to law enforcement
at the federal, state and local levels. For example, H.R. 1835 places
the burden of proof on the government to prove forfeiture by "clear and
convincing evidence," places the burden to the government to disprove
the innocent owner defense, gives seized property back to the defendant
pendingtrial (allowing it to be depleted or hidden), and takes money
from the asset forfeiture fund intended to benefit law enforcement and
uses it to pay for defense counsel. Any reduction in federal asset
forfeitures would be reflected in the amount of sharing with state and
local law enforcement.

The Department of Justice continues to favor the compromise bill
and wants to work to ensure that forfeiture is both tough and fair.
You should feel free to contact your elected representatives if you
oppose the passage of a bill based on H.R. 1835.

                                        Sincerely,

                                        <signature>

                                        SAUL A. GREEN
                                        United States Attorney


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 08:39:27 -0700
From: DAVID SAGERS <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re:  "Crank Up the Enola Gay" -Forwarded

    Duke,

    [...]
    " . . . Bataan Death March, the Rape of Nanking, the brutalization
of prisoners (a lesson well-learned by the Vietnamese, but I digress)...
    [...]

    In every enterprise, no matter the size, it is the leadership which
sets the pace, the theme, the modus operandi, the limits of acceptability:
the code of conduct.

    Let us not fault another for his or her ability to learn and produce
something better than we, let us learn from out mistakes - and theirs -
and step forward with the confidence that we can still do what needs to
be done better than before. It is imperative that we understand where
that mindset of the Japanese comes from and in doing so, we will also
understand what drives them to be the way they are. Merely poking
insults at them may appease our own puerile desires to effect some sort
of temporary psychological relief, but we achieve nothing by it.

    Remember here, that the Japanese citizen is subject to the same
brand of idiotic and socialistic mind control as we Americans, only their's
is much more pervasive.
    Our cultures are so far divided, that we can not hope to effect a
change within their system in a reasonable period of time to show them
that liberty is a concept which knows no parallel to that of their own.

    Allow me this: If we gunnies know that by reaching out to our
non-gunnies and showing them that being one isn't a bad thing - and can
in fact be a _good_ thing - then let's do it likewise with those foreign
peoples. Heck, who knows, maybe one of them will inspire a whole
culture to change!

ET
- ------------------------------------------------------
. . . . Convinced that the republican is the only form of government which
is not eternally at open or secret war with the rights of mankind, my
prayers and efforts shall be cordially distributed to the support of that
we have so happily established. . .
Thomas Jefferson
- ------------------------------------------------------
    Now, if only we could reclaim our republic . . .
ET

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X-Comment: Anti-Gun-Ban list

    Duke,

    [...]
    " . . . Bataan Death March, the Rape of Nanking,
the brutalization of prisoners (a lesson well-learned by
the Vietnamese, but I digress)...
    [...]

    In every enterprise, no matter the size, it is
the leadership which sets the pace, the theme, the modus
operandi, the limits of acceptability: the code of conduct.
    While the very essence of the acts perpetrated
upon the Chinese peoples in the last great war was in fact
a signature of the mindset of those who conducted that
war, what happened at Nanjing was perhaps minor in its
extent when considering the other travesties conducted
against man by man, in still other epochs.

    In that matter of who would be building what
and where, I hasten to remind the writer that while we
Americans had the edge from approximately the middle
of WWII to its end, it was indeed the greedy capitalists
who decised to dump the edge in the name of more and
more money in the form of market share.
    Nothing against capitalism here, just that
when money is the only motive, it usually results in a
mindset that is the equivalent of rapacious avarice.
    I don't need to run the gamut of history which
immediately proceded WWII to provide you with the painful
examples of what happened to U.S. industry.
    The single most important factor which inspired
the Japanese was the thinking of a U.S. citizen in the name
of Edward Demming. Demming tried his darndest to get U.S.
industry, especially the automotive portion to adopt his
statistical process control. But it seems that what worked
darned well during the war wasn't on the minds of the
greedy bastards who were the captains of industry.
    If you could make it cheap - not inexpensive, but
cheap - enough to sell anywhere and reap a large profit,
then that is exactly what happened.
    Oh, and don't forget, the only other major player
who was able to produce a significant product immediately
following WWII was Australia, since its industry wasn't
destroyed by the war. But compared to the output of the
U.S., it was insignificant.

    Let us not fault another for his or her ability to
learn and produce something better than we, let us learn
from out mistakes - and theirs - and step forward with
the confidence that we can still do what needs to be
done better than before. It is imperative that we understand
where that mindset of the Japanese comes from and in
doing so, we will also understand what drives them to be
the way they are. Merely poking insults at them may appease
our own puerile desires to effect some sort of temporary
psychological relief, but we achieve nothing by it.

    Remember here, that the Japanese citizen is
subject to the same brand of idiotic and socialistic mind
control as we Americans, only their's is much more pervasive.
    Our cultures are so far divided, that we can not
hope to effect a change within their system in a reasonable
period of time to show them that liberty is a concept which
knows no parallel to that of their own.

    Allow me this: If we gunnies know that by reaching
out to our non-gunnies and showing them that being one isn't
a bad thing - and can in fact be a _good_ thing - then let's do
it likewise with those foreign peoples. Heck, who knows, maybe
one of them will inspire a whole culture to change!

ET
- ------------------------------------------------------
. . . . Convinced that the republican is the only form of
government which is not eternally at open or secret war
with the rights of mankind, my prayers and efforts shall be
cordially distributed to the support of that we have so
happily established. . .
Thomas Jefferson
- ------------------------------------------------------
    Now, if only we could reclaim our republic . . .
ET


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 08:47:59 -0700
From: DAVID SAGERS <[e-mail]>
Subject: Clinton Wants Brady Extended

Clinton Wants Brady Bill Extended

.c The Associated Press

 By JIM ABRAMS

WASHINGTON (AP) - The administration hopes to extend the Brady Act
five-day waiting period for handgun purchases, which is due to expire in
November, a senior White House official said Sunday.

``We think that's a priority because it has worked effectively,''
presidential adviser Rahm Emanuel said on NBC's ``Meet the Press.''

The 1993 Brady Act set up the waiting period and required the
establishment of a national system to perform instant checks on
would-be gun buyers. Under the act, the nationwide instant check
system replaces the waiting period on Nov.
30 this year.

The waiting period is designed to weed out convicted felons and others
who are barred from buying guns. It gives local law enforcement
agencies time to check criminal records before a gun permit is issued.
Backers say the waiting period can also head off crimes of passion by
imposing a cooling off period on legal gun buyers.

``There is good common sense to the five-day cooling-off period,''
Emanuel said. Twenty percent of guns used in murders are bought
within the week of the murder and ``we think the cooling off period is
very, very important'' in stopping crimes of passion, he said.

In 1996, police checked the backgrounds of 2.6 million would-be handgun
buyers, with 70,000 sales blocked because of felony records and other
reasons.

The new instant check system will use a network of computers
administered by the FBI to give on-the-spot approval to legal gun buyers
and flag unauthorized buyers. A gun dealer will be notified within three
days whether to reject any flagged sale or go ahead with it.

Tanya Metaksa, the main lobbyist for the National Rifle Association, said
similar instant check systems are superior to waiting periods and are
already working in 19 states.

``Nobody to date has even suggested that we go and keep the five-day
wait,'' she said in an interview.

While supporting the instant background checks, the NRA is pushing
legislation to stop the FBI from imposing a gun tax to pay for the reviews.

``They plan also to charge like $30,'' NRA association president Charlton
Heston said on NBC. ``I don't approve of that.''

Attorney General Janet Reno last week urged states to administer the
background checks, using the FBI system, rather than relying on FBI
manpower.
The Justice Department said the FBI plans to charge $13 to $16 per
background check to states that don't do their own.

Reno said the check system, designed to handle up to 15,000 requests
an hour, is on track to go nationwide in November.

Emanuel said the administration's top gun control goal this year is
congressional passage of laws requiring child safety locks on all
handguns and extension of the Brady Act to juveniles. Emanuel said the
White House is also looking at legislation making parents responsible for
gun crimes committed by their children.

AP-NY-06-14-98 1344EDT



- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 12:46:45 -0700
From: DAVID SAGERS <[e-mail]>
Subject: Resource from the anti-gunners (fwd) -Forwarded

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To: Multiple recipients of list <[e-mail]>
Subject: Resource from the anti-gunners (fwd)
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment: Anti-Gun-Ban list

On Jun 13, Bob Mueller wrote:

[-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------]

Courtesy of Join-Together, we hear that---

"To assist you in your efforts, we have prepared this Sample Law section
outlining a handful of gun laws which are commonly introduced at the state
level. These laws are intended to provide you with sample legislation that
has been successfully enacted in various states. "

They also mention a brochure: Addressing Gun Violence Through Local
Ordinances: A Legal Resource Manual for California Cities and Counties  -
this from the Legal Community Against Violence in SF, CA.

It might be worthwhile to browse through some of the info there and use it
to be go ahead and get ready to block any of these proposals if/when they
are introduced in your area. Sorry I don't have a better URL, but they use
frames at JTO, so go to http://www1.jointogether.org/gv/ , and get to the
Strategy |Public Policy section.

______________________________________
Bob Mueller
Second Amendment Research Network -
http://www.infinet.com/~bmueller/Index.html

D, 6/52 ADA Alumni Association Commander
http://www.gather.com/d652ada/

[------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------]

- --
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
           *****       Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel!        *****
- ----------------+----------+--------------------------+---------------------
An _EFFECTIVE_  | Insured  | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no
weapon in every | by COLT; |         --   Max Plank   | weapon sell his
hand = Freedom  |   DIAL   | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a
on every side!  | 1911-A1. | word.   --   The Bible   | sword.--Jesus Christ
- ----------------+----------+--------------------------+---------------------


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 21:06:48 -0600
From: "larry larsen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fw: Rambo the hypocrite

Got this from another mailing list.
larry
- -----Original Message-----
From: Sean Collinsworth <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Monday, June 15, 1998 12:34 AM
Subject: Rambo the hypocrite


|Dear Gentlepeople,
|
|I find it rather ironic that Mr. Stallone would like to confiscate
|firearms back in the US. If one would run him in the state of California,
|he would come back with dozens and dozens of firearms under his name.
|Point of fact, he has a CCW and would always carry concealed. I know this
|for a fact because I have stopped him twice (vehicle stops) and been
|involved in the countless calls when his bodyguards would beat the shit
|out of someone when his ex, Brigdette, would start fights. Stallone would
|always appear and would tell the handling unit, out of courtesy, he was
|carrying. Of course his bodyguards, all off duty or ex cops, would also
|be carrying.
|
|Once again the elite and privileged mandate their hypocrisies on the
|masses.
|
|Regards,
|Sean Collinsworth
|www.voirdire.com
|
|


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 21:09:08 -0600
From: "larry larsen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: more stallone

. Interestingly, Stallone could not get a
concealed carry in L. A. County. So when ever he was filming in some
Podunc county in CA, he would show up, give a photo of himself to the
local chief of police and get another CCW for a different gun (one gun,
one CWW).

Larry S. Larsen
http://larsenfamily.com/russian_stove/
_=_____________________________!
 <|------==(______)--------              |____|
  |/////_____________45 ACP___|___|
   \       /|(    )/
   /      /) ___|
  /     o/
 /       /
/o___/


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 11:38:16 -0600
From: [e-mail] (Charles Hardy)
Subject: [American Spirit]

- ----BEGIN FORWARDED MESSGE----
A Frenchman, an Englishman, and a New Yorker were captured by a fierce
Amazon tribe. The chief comes to them and says, "The bad news is that
now that we've caught you, we're going to kill you, and then use your skins
to build a canoe.  The good news is that you get to choose how you die."

The Frenchman says, "I take 'ze poison." The chief gives him some
poison, the Frenchman says, "Vive la France!" and drinks it down.

The Englishman says, "A pistol for me, please." The chief gives him a
pistol, he points it at his head says, "God save the queen!" and
blows his brains out.

The New Yorker says, "Gimme a fork." The chief is puzzled, but he shrugs and
gives him a fork. The New Yorker takes the fork and starts jabbing himself
all over the stomach, the sides, the chest, everywhere.  There's blood
gushing out all over, it's horrible.

The chief is appalled, and screams, "What are you doing???"  The New
Yorker looks at the chief and says, "So much for your canoe, you savage!"


- ----END FORWARDED MESSAGE----

- --

Charles C. Hardy        | If my employer has an opinion on
<[e-mail]>            | these things I'm fairly certain
801.588.7200 (work)        | I'm not the one he'd have express it.

"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men,
 undergo the fatigue of supporting it." -- Thomas Paine

- -

------------------------------

End of utah-firearms-digest V2 #73
**********************************