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utah-firearms-digest      Wednesday, May 6 1998      Volume 02 : Number 054




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 May 98 19:55:00 -0700
From: [e-mail] (SCOTT BERGESON)
Subject: Protesters in five states ask gun makers to step up controls

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sun, 03 May 1998 00:31:29 -0600
To: "72113.1673"<[e-mail]>
From: "EAGLEFLT -- uNITED STATES THEATRE COMMAND --David E. Rydel"
 <[e-mail]>

>>>>

Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 17:58:46 -0700
From: [e-mail]
Organization: CWA
To: Al Olson

Ladies & Gentlemen:

Here they go again. The anti-gun nuts now want an end to hollow point
bullets!

You know, if it were /_really_/ about saving lives they'd ban alcohol
again -- or even cars. If it were /_really_/ about saving lives, they'd
be damanding action on the fact that 100,000 people die each year from
fatal reactions to /_prescribed_/ medicines. (Only 5,000 to 10,000
people die each year from taking /_illegal_/ drugs) If it were /_really_/
about saving lives, these anti-gun activists would push for a ban on
the consumption of alcohol outside a person's private home, which would
drastically cut down the number of alcohol-related automobile deaths.
But it's not about saving lives: It's about disarming the citizens.

All these gripes are just a ploy. When the BATF got their asses shot off
trying to do a fund raiser at a church congregation's expense at Waco,
Clinton took notice. He knew the FBI's own crime figures showed that
semi-automatic long guns were used in less than two-tenths of all gun
crimes committed, yet he pushed through the Assualt Weapons Ban. Why?
Because he and that baby-butcher Janet Reno didn't want their storm
troopers breaking down doors in fear of their lives. Clinton wants to
disarm American's from owning the same kind of weapons his own forces use
in order to gain a tactical advantage over the citizens the government
finds disagreeable. Well, Mr. Clinton, we aren't going to allow that.
You can pass any law you want to, but we will not be disarmed from those
weapons necessary to the preservation and efficiency of the Militia
without a very bloody fight. History has consistently proven that a
disarmed citizenry always leads to genocide, and we, the American
Militia, know that history very, very well.

Carl F. Worden
Liaison & Intelligence Officer
Southern Oregon Militia


Protesters in five states ask gun makers to step up controls

8.07 p.m. ET (008 GMT) May 2, 1998

SPRINGFIELD, Mass. (AP) Protesters marched outside America's largest
handgun maker Saturday to demand safeguards they say will cut down on
the thousands of gun deaths that happen each year.

"We are holding the gun industry responsible because they have refused
to design, advertise and market their products to save the lives of
children,'' said Arlene Locicero, 58, of Hawthorne, N.J.

Locicero, whose daughter was one of six people killed in a 1993 shooting
aboard a Long Island commuter train, was among 150 people protesting
outside Smith & Wesson.

The protest was one of several scheduled to be held Saturday outside
the country's largest gun makers in Connecticut, Georgia, Maryland,
Massachusetts and Virginia.

Protesters laid out 5,285 pairs of shoes to represent the number of
young people age 19 and under who died from gunshots either by homicide,
suicide or accident in 1995, the latest year for which statistics were
available.

The Silent March protesters as they called themselves want weapons
manufacturers to make guns childproof, drop laser sights and hollow-point
bullets, display prominent warning labels on guns, reduce production and
raise prices.

"I think the gun manufactures have created this environment,'' said
Tina Johnstone, the Silent March founder whose husband was killed in
San Francisco in 1992. "The country is awash in handguns that are
killing people.''

About 100 people showed up in Southport, Conn., to protest at Sturm,
Ruger & Co. Another hundred protested in Baltimore. Maryland is home
to the gunmaker Beretta.

"I think it's far more important that we work together,'' said Nancy
Fenton, executive director of Marylanders Against Handgun Abuse.

Gunmakers, she said, "can become the best salesman for firearm safety.
They really have the opportunity, and we feel they have the responsibility
to provide that kind of education.''

Congress is now considering a child access prevention bill intended to
educate parents about proper gun storage.

Ed Shultz, Smith & Wesson's CEO and president, said his company already
sells guns with trigger locks and takes many of the measures suggested
by the protesters.

However, "There is no substitute for proper training of those that are
using firearms.'' He said gun owners must learn the importance of safe
storage that keeps guns away from children.

About 50,000 people died in gun-related violence between 1985 and 1995.



- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 May 98 19:55:00 -0700
From: [e-mail] (SCOTT BERGESON)
Subject: Welcome to Gestapo Amerika 1/2

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 10:56:12 -0400
From: Patricia Neill <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail], [e-mail]

I just sent this off to the Idaho Observer. I'm a little late on delivery,
and the paper goes to press tomorrow, so it may or may not get published,
depending on whether the editor buys my flimsy excuses or not. I've been
trying to call Mr. Evan Nappan, but he's not available/out of the area,
etc., so I can't yet produce an address for Mr. Schaefer's defense fund, but
will as soon as someone let's me know what it is, or the Nappan answers the
phone. Contribute. And let's find some dirt on these New Jersey Gestapo.
Patty

Welcome to Gestapo Amerika
Patricia Neill (c) 1998

Can there be any more reasonable doubt that we as a country have been
overtaken by Gestapo police, BATF, FBI, IRS, EPA organizations that have
taken Hitler's techniques and now use them regularly?

In New Jersey, an FFL licensed gunsmith was attacked in his household. He
was seriously abused, as was his wife and stepson. The BATF made the
charges, but the New Jersey Police "served the search warrant."

How much longer, people, will we put up with this?

Good friends of Mr. Schaefer have contributed their opinions to this
horrible story. Their long-term friendships of Mr. Schaefer speak for
themselves. I will quote a few things they have to say before you read
what occurred early in the morning of April 22, 1998.

From Charles Riggs: "John is 53 and a veteran of the U.S. Army, works
in computers with one of the largest phone companies in the country,
holds an FFL, andis a gunsith andconsultant in on firearms and ammunition.
His clients have included police departments in the past."

More from Mr. Riggs: Mr. Schaefer is a Christian, a gun owner, knowledgable
about weaponry, and is thus scheduled for attack by the BATF, although this
raid was carried out by the New Jersey State Police. The charges against him
for not filling out a form correctly or whatever come from the BATF. The
NJSP, seemingly having taken some drugs to make them even more evil and
unlawful, attacked his home and family.

Immediately after the word of John Schaefer's attack by the BATF/NJSP went
on the net, some media donkey kicked in with slurs of how he deserved
it--because he was a "felon"--although from the reports, this "reporter"
got his information directly from the cops in question, in the same manner
all the mainstream "reporters" got their "news" about the Branch Davidians
from the BATF. The NJST kicked, hit, sprayed with pepper spray. Just read
Mr. Shaefer's own words about what happened to him.

Does this ring any bells to anyone? Isn't this precisely how the Jews were
treated in Germany when Hitler came to power? Apparently "gun owners" are
the new Jews, the new victims. Can't let the little people have guns.

I cannot write about this: I refuse to be objective over such abuses. Mr.
Schaefer's story follows. A contact with friends of his, and a phone number
for his attorney comes next. He will have a defense fund. Contribute what
you can. If you do not, then do not expect help from others when it happens
to you.

I would have liked to have written a good "news" article about this, but
frankly, I am too angry to do so. Emotions do have a place in "news"
reporting. I want you all to react, and strongly.

Unless, of course, you want to live in the Nationalist Socialist Germany of
Hitler's time. Or in the Communist regime of Good Ol' Uncle Joe Stalin. Both
men are responsible for the murder of millions. First thing they did was to
take any weaponry away from whom they conside the "serfs." For a time, in
America, we have not been "serfs." Shall we willingly return to that state?
Shall we put up with Gestapo?

It is up to you. The minority of us who are angry, and who hate these
Gestapo attacks will be the first killed. Then your Glorious Leaders will
come for you.

I will not be a slave. Neither will Mr. John Schaefer. Call his attorney,
write to the people with "power" over his case, and help out. Or don't. And
cry later.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 May 98 19:55:00 -0700
From: [e-mail] (SCOTT BERGESON)
Subject: Welcome to Gestapo Amerika 2/2

In the words of John Schaefer himself, here's what happened.

"At 7:15 this morning (4/22) over a dozen machine-gun armed agents of
the NJ State Police broke down my front door and invaded my home screaming
obscenities. We were rousted from our beds at gun point. I was ordered to
the floor, and when I couldn't get down on my knees fast enough because of
my artificial knee and arthritis I was kicked to the floor, and my back and
neck repeatedly stomped. When one trooper yanked on my arm that had been
injured several years ago and I yelled in pain I was Maced [pepper sprayed,
ED] and then kicked in the head at least twice resulting in a bloody lip and
head pain. Of course none of the storm troopers were wearing name tags. We
were forced into our living room, made to stand about in handcuffs for
about four hours in our pajamas while they trashed the house.

"They took all of my firearms, MOST of the ammunition (go figure), my
cartridge collection of US military ammo, my lead ingots and a couple of
buckets of cast bullets, all of my business records, and get this, my
Gunsite 260 certificate (they left my 499 certificate), and my NRA
Instructors certificate. They panicked at a dummy 60mm mortar round (the
kind you can pick up in surplus stores) and a blue dummy 100lb "practice
bomb" (empty sheet metal casing) yet left a couple of M79 practice grenade
rounds that were on display in my office.

"My wife and stepson were verbally abused and my stepson was grabbed
and roughed up by one young punk agent and threatened when he asked for
some clothes.

"All of the agents were pacing nervously about pointing their weapons all
over and were REALLY psyched up. They were really enjoying what they were
doing. I overheard several comments about "well we got another gun nut."
They joked about the fact that I was in excruciating pain from my shoulder
and knee. One storm trooper wanted to know what my "fucking problem was."
I was finally taken to the local PD where I was at least treated with a
little respect and compassion.

"I was finally released on $7,500 bail and my wife took me to the
hospital were I was x-rayed, catscanned and given some serious pain
medication and released. None of the hospital staff could believe what
happened to me.

"When I finally got back to our house I was amazed to find that they had
left ammunition in my vault, and a lot of reloading components in my basement.

"We have retained a big time attorney (NRA member) but have no idea how we
are going to afford him and my retirement papers are in.

"Your prayers for my family and I will be greatly appreciated in this
terrible time."


Mr Schaefer, by the advice of his attorney, is keeping quiet. A good idea.
You can contact his attorney, however, and learn the address for the defense
fund.


New Jersey links:
Gov. Christine Todd Whtiman (R)
http:/www.state.nj.us/governor/contact.htm

NJ Division of Criminal Justice
http://www.state.nj.us/lps/dcj/index.htm
email: [e-mail]

John and Sue Schaefer's Home page:
http://home.sprynet.sprynet/frfrog
(don't bother them personally, they got enough on their plate)

Friends:

[e-mail]
Charles Riggs: http:/www.wk3.com

Mr. Schaefer's attorney, who is also handling his defense fund is Evan
Nappen, in Eatontown, NJ (732-389-8888).


note from Mr. Schaefer to me:


Patty:

Cas asked me to drop you a note.

Sorry I haven't returned your messages but I have been inundated with mail.

I have been asked by my attorney, Evan Nappen, in Eatontown, NJ
(732-389-8888) not to make any comments other than, I am NOT a felon.
PERIOD. Such action is reasonable and prudent in any legal matter.

Evan is also handling the legal defense fund for me.

Thanks for your support.

John Schaefer

- --
__________________________________________________
John C. Schaefer         [e-mail]
Excalibur Associates     FAX: [phone]
People's Republic of NJ  http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/frfrog

"He who goes about unarmed in paradise had better
be sure that that is where he is." -- James Thurber
___________________________________________________


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 08:06:31 -0700
From: DAVID SAGERS <[e-mail]>
Subject: WACO video -Forwarded

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X-Comment: Anti-Gun-Ban list

- ------------------------------------------
get gun books and all books at:
http://thePentagon.com/training
(a portion goes to pro-gun groups)
- ------------------------------------------

You can use the following link to order the videotape of "Waco: The
Rules of Engagement," the oscar-nominated documentary. small commissions
to pro-gun groups.  non-profit.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0966210506/gunssavelives/


THANKS
- --
Don't agonize.  Organize.
http://GunsSaveLives.com


(Opinions here are personal and not those of any organization.)


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 08:53:04 -0700
From: DAVID SAGERS <[e-mail]>
Subject: Chris VanOcur -Forwarded

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Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 08:42:32 -0600
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Greetings,

If you saw the Cover Story regarding the debate on the right to carry
concealed weapons on Channel 4 as reported by Chris VanOcur on Wed., April
29, you may want to offer Chris VanOcur some feedback.

Here's my personal thoughts on the Cover Story:

Channel 4 has always made an attempt to present a balanced story on the gun
issue.  I've received several media inquiries from Channel 4 asking for my
humble opinion  :)   I've referred them to several incidents of examples of
people using guns for self-defense and/or people who have been positively
affected by guns in their life and they've reported them.  If Channel 4
continues to receive positive feedback from people who believe in the RKBA,
they will most likely continue to present both sides of the story.

Of special interest is that Chris VanOcur told me that he cleared the story
with people who work at the station who have conceal carry permits.  In
dealing with the media with this issue, I've found that many camera crew
members are gun owners and believe in the RKBA.  They just love it when
people stand up to protect the 2nd Amendment and will cover the story if
they have time.

I mean, heck, it sure seems like they're making a lot better effort than
Channel 5--with their latest editorial on "Girls and Guns."

Chris VanOcur's phone number:  975-4413

Chris's E-mail:  [e-mail]

Thanks for your patriotism!

Janalee Tobias  :)


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 12:55:53 -0700
From: DAVID SAGERS <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: WalMart Donates to anti-gun cause (fwd) -Forwarded

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Subject: Re: WalMart Donates to anti-gun cause (fwd)
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X-Comment: Anti-Gun-Ban list

On May 05, John Wilson wrote:

[-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------]

Steve Jones wrote:

> ALERT: Wal-Mart Supports Anti-Gun Group in Missouri
>
> This problem is occurring in Missouri, but the issue is national.
> Please
> help.
>
> Missourians against Handgun Violence (MAHV) is the most prominent
> anti-gun
> organization in Missouri, and lobbies against the interests of lawful
> gun
> owners at every turn.  The Spring issue of their  newsletter is on the
>
> street, and contained an item that gun owners may find shocking.  I
> have
> now verified that Wal-Mart intends to financially support this
> organization.
>
> On "Mitzvah Day" this Sunday May 17th, MAHV will have a booth at
> Wal-Mart
> on St. Charles Rock Road in St. Ann Missouri where they will raise
> funds,
> promote trigger locks, and conduct a "say no to guns" art session for
> young
> children.  Im sure the MAHV will have an ample supply of red crayons
> standing by.  Wal-Mart has pledged to match any funds the MAHV raises.
>
> Phone calls and letters to the store manager, a Mr. Tom Yarbrough,
> explained the concerns of gun owners, and offered to provide trained
> firearms experts from the Second Amendment Coalition of Missouri
> (SACMO) to
> set up an educational booth to explain the limitations and the dangers
> of
> misapplying trigger locks, and to show the public how to safely use
> them in
> an overall scheme of safe firearms storage.  Yarbrough declined.

I jusy got off the phone with the store manager Tom Yarbrough, first off
I must say he was extreamly
and causiously NICE to me.

I told him I was very concerned about what I had heard on the internet
about the fund raiser by MAHV
Mr. Yarbrough told me he had only learned of this issue yesterday, and
that he had an NRA member call him
and inform him of this situation. He told me that he told this NRA
member that the issue was not a done deal.
and that the NRA member told him he was going to put it out over the
internet anyway.

I went ahead and told him I was a pro-gunner and an NRA member to get
that out of the way and I told him
I was also a stock holder. I informed him that I was trying to approach
this issue with him as a stock holder.

 I thought this would get better results then the pro-gun stand.  It
don't matter to me what they think motivates
me, all I care about is the end result. I think if the stock holders as
well come out and express their concern
it will help greatly.

He listened to everything I said to him, I told him I could not believe
Wal-Mart would get involved
in such a politicaly charged issue and that it was unwise to open
themselves up to such an issue as this.
I expressed to him that it would be best if Wal-Mart would just stick to
helping out the Childrens
Merical Network and like causes. He told me that thats one of the
reasons he was doing this in the
first place because Wal-Mart lets individual stores donate so much money
per year to charities.
( which is indeed true )  But I told him I do not think that this gun
control organization is considered a charity
and that you would not even be able to deduct contributions on your
tax's.

He told me that this group did have a tax letter, so I guess he was
saying it was classified as a charity.

I asked him to reconsider and elect not to hold this event and he said
they were going to rethink thier decision
to hold this thing. He told me that his store was approched by this
organization and was asked if they could
just setup a booth and hold a small fund raiser.  I then questioned
their decision to match the funds which led
us to the point I typed above about the Miracle Network. I myself DO NOT
believe this organization is
listed as a charity but that is just my belief nothing more.


Thats what happened on my end, my own personal opinion of the matter :::

Remember this is my opinion of mine based on how this guy acted with me
on the phone.

The manager seemed scared, like he got himself into something far bigger
then he ever expected. He seemed willing
to cave in if he caught enough slack from this.  He seemed really
worried about the fallout from this since
it has been posted on the Internet.


Of course I helped out his fear, I told him I have been on Internet for
a long time and when something like
this gets spread on the internet, he would have about 2 days before his
phone will be jammed. He seemed
quite concerned.


I know Wal-Mart, and Wal-Mart has and will at times yank a manager from
a store or demote them for screwups
like these. They pretty much let the managers of the stores handle their
own local stuff pertaining to this sort of thing.
That is as long as they dont screwup. I dont think this will result in
something happening like this though. Usually
they will be warned a number of times before something drastic happens.
But then again mabye this guy already
messed up in the past, you never know.


Anyway everyone needs to call the local store where this is happening
and the Wal-Mart headquarters.
It may help prevent this in the future.

John
[e-mail]

[------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------]

- --
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
           *****       Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel!        *****
- ----------------+----------+--------------------------+---------------------
An _EFFECTIVE_  | Insured  | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no
weapon in every | by COLT; |         --   Max Plank   | weapon sell his
hand = Freedom  |   DIAL   | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a
on every side!  | 1911-A1. | word.   --   The Bible   | sword.--Jesus Christ
- ----------------+----------+--------------------------+---------------------


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 13:07:05 -0600
From: "S. Thompson" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Wal-Mart boycott again

>ALERT: Wal-Mart Supports Anti-Gun Group in Missouri
>
>This problem is occurring in Missouri, but the issue is national.  Please
>help.
>
>Missourians against Handgun Violence (MAHV) is the most prominent anti-gun
>organization in Missouri, and lobbies against the interests of lawful gun
>owners at every turn.  The Spring issue of their  newsletter is on the
>street, and contained an item that gun owners may find shocking.  I have
>now verified that Wal-Mart intends to financially support this organization.
>
>On "Mitzvah Day" this Sunday May 17th, MAHV will have a booth at Wal-Mart
>on St. Charles Rock Road in St. Ann Missouri where they will raise funds,
>promote trigger locks, and conduct a "say no to guns" art session for young
>children.  Im sure the MAHV will have an ample supply of red crayons
>standing by.  Wal-Mart has pledged to match any funds the MAHV raises.
>
>Phone calls and letters to the store manager, a Mr. Tom Yarbrough,
>explained the concerns of gun owners, and offered to provide trained
>firearms experts from the Second Amendment Coalition of Missouri (SACMO) to
>set up an educational booth to explain the limitations and the dangers of
>misapplying trigger locks, and to show the public how to safely use them in
>an overall scheme of safe firearms storage.  Yarbrough declined.
>
>After taking time to consider the matter, Mr. Yarbrough has specifically
>refused to amend his plans.  Yarbrough said of MAHV "They are against
>handgun violence, not against handguns."  And then asked, "Are you an NRA
>member?"  When I said yes, he said "Oh."  I don't know what his purpose in
>asking that question was, and don't know if NRA members should feel less
>welcome in his store than other customers.
>
>So, we can expect MAHV to deliver their message of fear and ignorance to
>the public at the St. Ann store on the 17th, and can further expect WalMart
>to write them a check at the end of the day.  Speaking as a gun owner and
>frequent Wal-Mart customer, I am outraged that any place I shop would take
>the profit from my business and turn it against me like this.  I will not
>stand for it, and know you will not either.
>
>Wal-Mart national HQ has specifically refused to address the issue.  If you
>dont mind the long wait on hold, you might want to share your thoughts on
>that.  The number is (800) WAL-MART (925-6278).  More effective might be
>calls or letters to the district manager and the store manager:
>
>Ronny Hayes, District Manager
>1307 Highway K
>OFallon, MO 63366
>[phone]
>
>Tom Yarbrough, store manager
>10835 St. Charles Rock Road
>St. Ann, MO 63074
>[phone] or fax at [phone].
>
>You may also want to email copies to [e-mail] in order to
>demonstrate to their national headquarters the fact that this is a matter
>of concern to gun owners.
>
>Do not let this pass without your voice being heard.
>
>As I write this, there are only 13 days until the event.   If we respond
>immediately, it may well be possible to convince Wal-Mart that it would be
>a mistake to provide financial support to an anti-gun organization.  Last
>year, activism played a role in getting a local business organization to
>rescind their financial support of MAHV.  It is time to act again.  Call or
>write today.
>
>I originally spoke with Yarbrough on Wednesday April 12th.  After having
>been given adequate time to consider my input, on Monday May 4th he
>encouraged me not to alert you, saying "We may change our minds, and you
>would look pretty silly protesting an event that isn't going to happen."
>Of course that was merely a tactic designed to keep us quiet.  I'm not
>about to let that happen.
>
>If anyone gets any form of verbal or written response either locally or
>nationally, I'd appreciate a copy or brief summary.  I can be reached at
>[e-mail], or faxed at 314-451-5624.
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>| Steve Jones                     | "Outdoor Guide Magazine" - Hunting  |
>| [e-mail]          | & Fishing in Missouri & Illinois.   |
>| http://www.evenstar.com/sjones/ | Call [phone] for a free copy. |
>|-----------------------------------------------------------------------|
>|  "KTRS OUTDOOR GUIDE".  Live hunting & fishing talk Sunday evenings   |
>|  from 7 till 8 Central time at http://www.a-zuc.com/azlive.ram using  |
>|  RealAudio from http://www.real.com.  Talk Radio St. Louis, 550-KTRS. |
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------


This part is from Sarah:

I received the following text of the MAHV newsletter article from a reader
yesterday, but at that time was not able to confirm at what level this
decision was made.  If, as noted above, it is a national policy (or the
national HQ refuses to intervene), then I'd agree that a nationwide
protest/boycott is indicated.

>From: Missourians Against Handgun Violence newsletter spring 1998
>
>Making a Difference
>
>MAHV has 60 trigger locks, donated  by Master Lock.
>They are available free of charge to people who have
>children and guns in their home. Donations are appreciated
>to allow us to continue this program. The cost of each lock is
>approximately $8.
>
>Shaare Emeth is asking for volunteers to help distribute MAHV
>information and trigger locks. On "Mitzvah Day," May 17, MAHV
>will have a booth at WalMart on St. Charles Rock Road to
>encourage parents to buy locks for their guns at home.
>There will be a "Say No to Guns" art session for younger children.
>
>A UNIQUE OPPORTUNITY To Help
>
>WalMart will match any funds MAHV can raise, so we are
>looking for baked goods donations for May 17. If you can
>contribute cookies, cakes, pies or brownies, please call
>MAHV at 997-6301. AND if you have any other ideas for
>money raising at this May 17th event, call MAHV immediately.
>WalMart has generously offered to have their greeters
>stationed at the entrance with donation jars for MAHV.


Since I've also been asked about "Mitzvah Day", I'm including the follwing
commentary.  The opinions expressed are mine alone, and I'm solely
responsible for any errors or misinterpretations.

    There is no such holiday or occasion as "Mitzvah Day"; it's a term made up
by Shaare Emeth.  (Shaare Emeth, by the way, means "Gateway of Truth" - a
name which nicely belies its propagation of politically-correct,
anti-Jewish lies.)  Mitzvah most properly refers to a religious
commandment, i.e. one of the commandments prescribed by G-d in the Bible or
by the rabbis.  More recently a "mitzvah" has taken on the meaning of any
good deed.  As far as I know, a mitzvah is an _individual_ responsibility,
not one that accrues to a group.

    However, a mitzvah fulfilled through wrongdoing is considered an "averah"
or transgression.  I'm not a rabbi, nor in any way qualified to judge such
things, but in my _opinion_, what Shaare Emeth is doing is an averah.
While there is nothing inherently wrong with a trigger lock, if the person
using it is fully informed as to its benefits and risks, that does not seem
to be the intent of MAHV.  If MAHV supports gun control, which appears to
be the case,  then Shaare Emeth is raising funds for a policy which is
responsible for the deaths of millions of Jews at the hands of Russian
czars, Hitler, Stalin, and others just during this century.  And since Jews
are specifically commanded (i.e. a mitzvah)  to consider the plight of
oppressed people everywhere (for we were slaves in Egypt and G-d delivered
us), Jews may also not turn their backs on the genocide of other people
either - roughly 60 million this century - all preceded by gun control.
Thus Shaare Emeth, no matter how well-intentioned, is promoting policy that
is unquestionably evil, and possibly even violating the true commandment to
remember all who are oppressed.

    I have requested confirmation and additional information from Shaare
Emeth.  Depending on their response, polite letters of protest to them,
especially from Jewish gun owners, might be in order.

    For more information on Jews and firearms, check out Jews for the
Preservation of Firearms Ownership, at http://www.jpfo.org

    In the meantime, looks like it's time to start a Wal-Mart boycott.

Sarah








- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 13:30:10 -0600
From: "S. Thompson" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Chris VanOcur -Forwarded

At 08:53 AM 5/5/98 -0700, you wrote:
>Greetings,
>
>If you saw the Cover Story regarding the debate on the right to carry
>concealed weapons on Channel 4 as reported by Chris VanOcur on Wed., April
>29, you may want to offer Chris VanOcur some feedback.
>
>Here's my personal thoughts on the Cover Story:
>
>Channel 4 has always made an attempt to present a balanced story on the gun
>issue.  I've received several media inquiries from Channel 4 asking for my
>humble opinion  :)   I've referred them to several incidents of examples of
>people using guns for self-defense and/or people who have been positively
>affected by guns in their life and they've reported them.  If Channel 4
>continues to receive positive feedback from people who believe in the RKBA,
>they will most likely continue to present both sides of the story.
>
>Of special interest is that Chris VanOcur told me that he cleared the story
>with people who work at the station who have conceal carry permits.  In
>dealing with the media with this issue, I've found that many camera crew
>members are gun owners and believe in the RKBA.  They just love it when
>people stand up to protect the 2nd Amendment and will cover the story if
>they have time.
>
>I mean, heck, it sure seems like they're making a lot better effort than
>Channel 5--with their latest editorial on "Girls and Guns."
>
>Chris VanOcur's phone number:  975-4413
>
>Chris's E-mail:  [e-mail]
>
>Thanks for your patriotism!
>
>Janalee Tobias  :)
>
>


I watched the Channel 4 cover story and thought it was entirely worthless
fluff.  It presented no information, facts, or anything that could be
considered "news", even given the very loose definition of "news" currently
rampant.  It was a collage of images and emotions, nothing else.

The only actual assertion made was my Mr. Edwards, that _when_ Salt Lake
City is plagued by vast numbers of shoot-outs between gun owners, it will
be too late to stop the carnage.  (That's not a direct quote, but as close
as I can remember, and essentially what he said.)  This blatant lie went
completely unchallenged.

Further, while Mr. VanOcur made an _attemtp_ to be fair, his obvious
anti-gun agenda was completely transparent, at least to this viewer.

I have no doubt that Janalee was sincere in working to get positive press
for gun owners in Utah.  But if this is the best press coverage we can get
in Utah, we're in sorry shape.

Chris VanOcur gets a "thumbs down" from this reviewer. <g>

On the other hand, Jerry Andersch has always done an excellent job of
covering firearms issues.

Sarah


Sarah Thompson, M.D.
http://www.therighter.com

GO JAZZ!!!!

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 16:55:06 -0700
From: DAVID SAGERS <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fw: The Incident on Long Island -Reply

I am looking for a list of sponsors for the LIRR lie.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 00:06:35 -0600
From: "S. Thompson" <[e-mail]>
Subject: NBC's advertisers

<excerpt>The following was forwarded to me by Brian Wilson.  I have not
verified the information, but consider him a reliable source.  Note that
the list does not necessarily include your local sponsors.


Sarah



</excerpt><<<<<<<<


>>>>

<excerpt>X-Sender: [e-mail]

X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32)

Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 21:02:23 -0400

To: craig fields <<[e-mail]>

From: Brian Wilson <<[e-mail]>

Subject: NBC's advertisers




>LIST OF ADVERTISERS ON BARBARA STREISAND'S RECENT ANTI-GUN MOIVE


 List of Advertisers on NBC's sunday night propaganda movie

>>

>>Advil (pain medicine)

>>Midas mufflers

>>Digiorno pizza's

>>Taco Bell

>>Arm & Hammer

>>Certs breath mints

>>Benadryl allergy medicine

>>Prudential Insurance

>>Almay makeup

>>Right Guard

>>Monistat 3

>>Enterprise car rental

>>MCI

>>Loreal makeup

>>JC Penny

>>Discover card

>>Sears

>>Dr Pepper

>>McDonalds

>>Polaroid

>>Mazda

>>AT&T



Brian Wilson

Talk Show Host/Author

"the little black book on WHITEWATER"

<underline>http://www.brian-wilson.com

</underline>When looking for a reason why things go wrong,

never rule out sheer stupidity.



</excerpt><<<<<<<<



- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 00:14:24 -0600
From: "S. Thompson" <[e-mail]>
Subject: WalMart $: Victory!

If you have no idea of what this is about, hit DELETE.  I can't remember
who all wrote to me about this or to whom I sent messages.  Sorry!

To those of you who helped stop the Wal-Mart "Mitzvah Day" abomination, my
sincere thanks and congratulations.

Sarah



>X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32)
>Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 22:24:34 -0500
>To: FIREARMS Discussion List <[e-mail]>
>From: Steve Jones <[e-mail]>
>Subject: WalMart $: Victory!
>
>To all who helped with the St. Ann Missouri Wal-Mart issue:
>
>What can I say but wow!
>
>A quick and decisive response has apparently won the day.  The district
>manager called me twice this afternoon, but I was in meetings.
>
>Two other people have spoken with the DM and been assured the event has
>been called off.
>
>I will speak with the DM in the morning and post the "post mortem".
>
>Thanks everybody!  Great job.
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>| Steve Jones                     | "Outdoor Guide Magazine" - Hunting  |
>| [e-mail]          | & Fishing in Missouri & Illinois.   |
>| http://www.evenstar.com/sjones/ | Call [phone] for a free copy. |
>|-----------------------------------------------------------------------|
>|  "KTRS OUTDOOR GUIDE".  Live hunting & fishing talk Sunday evenings   |
>|  from 7 till 8 Central time at http://www.a-zuc.com/azlive.ram using  |
>|  RealAudio from http://www.real.com.  Talk Radio St. Louis, 550-KTRS. |
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 17:49:56 -0700
From: DAVID SAGERS <[e-mail]>
Subject: guns in Canada (fwd) -Forwarded

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- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 05 May 98 17:16:43 PDT
From: [e-mail]
To: [e-mail], [e-mail]
Subject: guns in Ganada

[101]
Feds exaggerate gun crimes: RCMP
By PETER WORTHINGTON
Toronto Sun
April 30, 1998


 When the federal government's controversial gun control law was passed
(Bill
 C-68), a critical factor was statistics attributed to the RCMP that in
1993 there
 were 623 cases of violent crimes involving guns.
 In a country that has some 700 murders a year, this was alarming and
helped
 persuade the influential Canadian Police Association to support the law
that requires all rifles
 and shotguns to be registered between 1998 and 2003 - some seven million
guns owned by
 three million Canadians. It's always been the law to regulate and
register handguns - something
 that doesn't deter criminals, who have no prejudice against illegal
pistols or revolvers. Estimates
 of implementing Bill C-68 range from $85 million to $1 billion-plus.
 The gun law has caused real and imagined rifts in Canada. Hunters,
farmers, assorted gun
 lovers and those in remote areas view the legislation - probably
correctly - as a step toward the
 confiscation of all guns. Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Ontario and
the territories are
 challenging the law. Meanwhile, the anti-gun lobby views the law as a
civilized curb on violence
 and a means of cutting down criminal and domestic violence.
 Under Access to Information laws, Reform MP Garry Breitkreuz
(Yorkton-Melville) has
 released an extraordinary letter written last year by RCMP Commissioner
J.P.R. Murray,
 accusing the federal justice ministry of misrepresenting RCMP crime
statistics involving firearms.

 In RCMP investigations of 88,162 violent crimes during 1993, "our
statistics showed that there
 were 73 firearms involved in violent crime compared to the department of
justice findings of
 623 firearms involved in violent crime," Commissioner Murray wrote in
July, 1997.
 He added that it was "of particular concern that the minister of justice
and the Canadian
 Association of Chiefs of Police relied on these statistics (attributed to
the RCMP) while Bill
 C-68 was being processed in Parliament." The firearms research unit of
the justice department
 used the phony statistics in its reports.
 Rather than a misprint or typographical error, it seems a deliberate
attempt to mislead. Murray
 noted that the firearms unit claimed 51% of violent firearm crimes
involved rifles or shotguns,
 while in 19% of firearm crimes handguns were used - giving momentum to
the campaign to
 register or ban rifles and shotguns.
 Murray pointed out that 51% of crimes involving long guns boils down to
barely 37 in all of
 Canada - out of a total 88,162 violent crimes, or .08%. Hardly a
statistic that justifies the mania
 for long gun registration and control.
 Unmentioned by the government, but remarked by Commissioner Murray was
that of 333
 homicides and attempted homicides investigated by the RCMP in 1993, a
grand total of six
 involved firearms. Hardly a crisis of gun violence.
 Murray's polite but firm "request" that "something must be done to
correct the (erroneous) data
 or remove it from circulation," has largely been ignored. As well, the
Canadian Firearms Centre
 didn't make corrections and used the false statistics in a 1995 report on
firearms.
 In a letter dated March 30, 1998, Scott Newark, executive officer of the
Canadian Police
 Association, wrote Justice Minister Anne McLellan, saying it was "deeply
disturbing" that the
 RCMP found it "necessary to urge correction of grossly flawed and
misleading firearms data
 prepared by the justice department ... "
 Worse, the police association says, is that when the RCMP pointed out the
error and tried to
 meet with the Canadian firearms people, "the RCMP were rebuffed in their
efforts to correct
 the public record which they knew to be false."
 Insisting it was "imperative" that accurate, reliable information on
crimes involving firearms be
 available to Canadians, the police association warned: "Failure to meet
these most basic
 requirements will result in a justifiable lack of confidence amongst
Canadians that the
 government knows what it is doing when it purports to regulate firearms
.. "
 I'd argue that the government knows exactly what it is doing - that its
aim is not so much to
 reduce violent crime, but to take guns from law-abiding citizens when
there's frail evidence that
 gun controls reduce gun crimes, most of which are committed with illegal
guns. Justice officials
 have explained the discrepancy in statistics by saying many of the guns
recovered by police
 weren't actually used in crime - just that they might be.
 Garry Breitkreuz wonders if public servants manipulate, distort and
invent RCMP statistics to
 help achieve questionable political objectives, "How will we ever know
when justice
 department officials are telling the truth?"
 McLellan wasn't justice minister when the false gun crime statistics were
disseminated, but
 seems determined to keep quiet as long as there's no widespread pressure
to explain.
 Western Canada seems especially hostile toward gun controls and more
offended by the
 government's abuse of RCMP statistics than Eastern Canada is. Although
it's a legitimate
 concern, the least expensive, most effective way to reduce the gun
violence is mandatory prison
 sentences for those carrying a gun in a crime.
 Reality is that knives are a more violent threat to the public than guns.
So, probably, are fists,
 baseball bats and frying pans. Registration anyone?



    Jack Perrine | ATHENA Programming, Inc | 626-798-6574 |
  ---------------- | 1175 No. Altadena Drive | fax [phone] |
  [e-mail]  |  Pasadena, CA  91107  US  |




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