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utah-firearms-digest    Thursday, February 26 1998    Volume 02 : Number 028




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 11:54:03 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Charles Hardy)
Subject: Re: PSA Project LifeLine anti gun on 1190AM Imus in the Morning Dallas -Forwarded

I hope I'm not seen as supporting anti-gun ads.  However, I don't
think the ads are as bad as has been suggested.

They are not aimed at kids, but at parents.  Kids don't need
instructions on how to break into the cheap 3 dial home lock box.  I'm
no genuis and by the time I was 11 or 12 I had long since figured out
that simply starting at 000 and counting my way up towards 999 would
open the box and give me the combo for future use with about 30 to 45
minutes of effort.

Neither, do I think, do they teach kids to pick up a gun and shoot--at
least far less than anything else portraying guns on TV does.  The
overall message is that to do so will get someone hurt.

The ads are aimed at parents.  And the message is simply, "Don't rely
on hiding places or simple lock devices to keep your children away
from your guns."  None of us here would disagree with that message.
They could be improved by adding the message that education
"gun-proofing" your child is as or more important than locks and
mechanical means of "child-proofing" your gun.  But as far as they go,
they are reasonably good and I think we discredit ourselves by
opposing them.  Offering the Eddie Eagle as an addittion (rather than
a substitue) which would be aimed at kids, is a good idea.

If you have kids and guns you need to, IMO, do two things.  1--teach
your child proper gun safety so that they are safe around your guns
and around any guns they may stumble across in someone else's home.
Even--or especially--those without guns need to do this as their child
are the ones who likely to be most intrigued by the mystique of guns.
2--physically secure your guns so that if your child EVER has friends
over they can not easily get into your guns if they have not been
properly trained.

On Mon, 23 Feb 1998,  DAVID SAGERS <[e-mail]> posted:

>Attached is a message about antigun public service announcements
>running in Dallas.  In Utah these same TV  PSA are sponsored by IHC.
>
>I wrote a letter to IHC's President - Scott Parker and copied VP of public
>relations - John Taylor.  After a couple of weeks I called John Taylor to
>discuss the PSA.
>
>We discussed the actual numbers of accidential gun deaths and how the
>PSA are misleading, if not deceptive.  I was basically patted on the head
>and told I didn't know what I was talking about.  Later I received a letter
>mostly saying that IHC was right and that my information was wrong.
>
>It is time that we start criticising IHC for running anti gun ads that teach
>kids dangerous and irresponsible gun handling practices.
>
>These include how to break into a locked gun case, (use your dad's
>birthday), showing kids that when they see a gun they should immediatly
>pick it up, point it at the nearest person and pull the trigger.
>
>I offered to give my Eddie Eagle video to IHC to use as a PSA, because it
>teaches a much safer and smarter message to kids, "Stop, Don't touch,
>Leave the area and teall an adault."  IHC was not interested.  Seems that
>IHC is more interested in the political ageda than in providing a
>responsible PSA.
>
>I did find out that the IHC person pushing this campaign is a Mr. Bill
>Barnes at Primary Children's Medical Center.
>
>As suggested in the attached e-mail, it is time we find out more about this
>and start the letter writing campaign.
>Received: (from smap@localhost) by fs1.mainstream.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) id JAA21595; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 09:48:34 -0500 (EST)
>Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 09:48:34 -0500 (EST)
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>Subject: PSA Project LifeLine anti gun on 1190AM Imus in the Morning Dallas
>X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
>X-Comment: Anti-Gun-Ban list
>
>I just heard another PSA public service announcement by a group called
>"Project Lifeline" on 1190AM IMUS in the morning 8am Dallas 2-23.
>It had the sound of kids playing with a loaded handgun in the background
>as a Woman Doctor talks about how: A gun is fired more times against a
>love one or friend than an intruder. You are 43 more times to be injured
>by a gun if you own one. Please if you own one remove the bullets and put
>them in a safe place, better yet get rid of the gun. Then you here the
>kids fussing over the gun and it discharges. Then she says before its to
>late.
>
>It is time we find out more about this and start the letter writing
>campaign. Imus is one of the top rated shows in America. I think this is
>only being aired in Dallas at this time.
>Regards,
>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>Paul Watson C.P.M., [e-mail]   Senior Buyer UTD
>The University of Texas at Dallas ph# 972/883-2307,fax# [phone]
>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>-
>
>


- --

Charles C. Hardy        | If my employer has an opinion on
<[e-mail]>            | these things I'm fairly certain
801.588.7200 (work)        | I'm not the one he'd have express it.

"...the rank and file are usually much more primitive than we imagine.
 Propaganda must therefore always be essentially simple and repetitious."
 -- Joseph Goebbels - Nazi Propaganda Minister

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 09:34:16 -0700
From: Will Thompson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: University Police contact info

Michael J McPharlin wrote:
>
> > > I would also want to read the report and make sure the fellow was
> > > actually a CCW permit holder rather than someone simply in possession
> > > of a concealed weapon.  Papers tend to make a habit of missing that
> > > subtle point when reporting on bad guys.
> >
> > You could check with the University Police. (I think the officer who
> > mainly corresponds with the press is named Kevin Nollenberg.)
> > [Chronicle office phone # [phone]]
> >
>
> The man arrested was licensed to carry a concealed weapon.
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Detective Michael McPharlin
> University of Utah Police
> 585-1202
> [e-mail]

Another question I have is whether or not this guy actually
_did_ anything.  I've heard that he asked a question.  That
sort of question gets asked every day on campus, usually by
rather large "sports stars" or packs of roving frat boys...

So, did a gun actually make an appearance?

Will

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 14:41:42 -0700
From: DAVID SAGERS <[e-mail]>
Subject: New Anti-Gun Organization -Forwarded

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From: [e-mail] (Neil Dickey)
To: Multiple recipients of list <[e-mail]>
Subject: New Anti-Gun Organization
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment: Anti-Gun-Ban list


It is reported on the Nando News today that one of those wounded in the
shootings on the Empire State Building last year is forming a group whose
stated purpose is to end gun violence.  They apparently don't want to ban
guns, just fix it so that they all have combination locks on them.  Who
gets to have the combination isn't specified.  The name of the group is
"PAX," and the article is available at:

http://www.nando.net

It's either under the "Political" or "Nation" buttons.

The opinions which I have expressed herein are entirely my own, unless other-
wise noted.  No-one else should be held responsible for what I think.

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| D. N. Dickey               |  Virtuous motives, trammeled by inertia and |
| Research Associate         |  timidity, are no match for armed and       |
| Northern Illinois Univ.    |  resolute wickedness.                       |
| [e-mail]    |                       - W. S. Churchill     |
| **Finger for public key**  |                                             |
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 15:28:45 -0700
From: "S. Thompson" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Legislative ALERTS!!

At the Board of Trustees meeting of USSC last night, the Board voted to
take official positions on several bills currently before the legislature.
None of these bills is specifically a firearms bill.  However, all of these
bills will ultimately affect firearms-related legislation.

HB 328 - Public Office Misconduct Amendments

This bill removes criminal sanctions for a legislator who refuses or
neglects to take and file an oath of office.  If this bill passes, a
legislator may willfully refuse to take his oath of office, and the only
recourse available to citizens will be to file a civil suit at their own
expense.   It is the opinion of the Board of USSC that any legislator who
is unwilling to take and file an oath stating that s/he will uphold the
Constitutions of the United States and Utah should not be allowed to serve
in public office.

This bill has already been passed by the House and the Senate Judiciary
Committee, and is now before the Senate.  PLEASE CONTACT SENATE PRESIDENT
LANE BEATTIE AS WELL AS YOU OWN SENATOR AND REQUEST THAT THIS BILL BE
DEFEATED.

Senators can be contacted at 801-538-1035 or 800-953-8824.  Additional
contact info can be found at: http://www.senate.le.state.ut.us/roster.htm


SB 182 - Restrictions on State and Local Governments Collecting Monies for
Groups

This bill would prohibit automatic payroll deductions (at government
expense) for contributions to labor organizations' political action funds,
and require that political action fund monies be kept in a separate fund
from labor organization dues.  This legislation would affect only
government employees, not private employees.  The Board of USSC believes
that it is improper for government funds to be expended to collect money
for political activities, and  that payroll deductions by  the government
may tend to exert a coercive force on public employees to contribute to
these funds.

This bill has been passed out of committee with amendments and is now
before the Senate.  PLEASE CONTACT YOUR OWN SENATOR AND REQUEST THAT S/HE
SUPPORT SB 182.  It is NOT necessary to contact Lane Beattie as he is a
co-sponsor of this bill, although it would be polite to thank him for his
support.  Contact information is listed above.


HB 304 - Initiative Process Amendments

This bill would make it more difficult for individuals or groups to have an
initiative submitted to the legislature by providing that the required
number of signatures be obtained from 20 (twenty) counties.  Current law
requires that the signatures be obtained from only 15 (fifteen) counties.
The opinion of the Board is that this bill will prevent the legislative
process from being sabotaged by an overload of frivolous initiatives (as
happens frequently in California) and that it will make it more difficult
for anti-gun initiatives (such as Washington's I-676) to be introduced in
Utah.

This bill has had a very stormy course in the legislature, but was
eventually passed by the House.  It is currently in the Senate Rules
Committee.  Until or unless it is released from Rules, NO ACTION is
necessary.  However, you may want to familiarize yourself with this bill in
case action does become necessary.


LETTERS TO THE EDITOR OF YOUR LOCAL NEWSPAPER REGARDING ANY OF THE ABOVE
BILLS WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED!


Please stay tuned for future updates on:
The draconian Federal S 10 which has finally been approved by committee and
sent to the U.S. Senate
The problematic provisions of the Brady Act National Instant Check system
scheduled to take effect in Novermber
Governor Leavitt's response to the opinion of the legislative general
counsel that his ban on concealed carry by public employees is illegal
under State law
USSC's upcoming seminar on how YOU can become a delegate to state or county
conventions
and more!

THANK YOU FOR YOUR SUPPORT!

As always, comments may be directed to any of the Board members listed below.

The following Board members have volunteered to have their contact info
made public.  Please feel free to contact them, but please do not abuse
their open-door policy.  All of us are VERY busy right now.

Doug Henrichsen, 771-3196(h), [e-mail]
Elwood Powell,  426-8274 or 583-2882 (h), 364-0412 (w),
    [e-mail]
Shirley Spain, 963-0784, [e-mail]
Bob Templeton, 544-9125 (h), 546-2275 (w)
Sarah Thompson, 566-1067, [e-mail]  (I prefer e-mail to phone
calls when possible).
Joe Venus, 571-2223


To subscribe to the USSC mail list, send a message to:
[e-mail]
In the SUBJECT of the message put:
SUBSCRIBE USSC

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 11:02:11 -0700
From: DAVID SAGERS <[e-mail]>
Subject: New anti-gun organization -Forwarded

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Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 22:48:45 -0700
To: [e-mail]
From: Patricia Fosness <[e-mail]>
Subject: New anti-gun organization
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Posted to rkba-co by Patricia Fosness <[e-mail]>
- -----------------------
I guess this is bad news and good news.  The good news is that if they think
they need another one, the ones they have must be ineffective by their
standards.  I'd be particularly delighted if the groups started to vie for
power and began arguing between themselves.  Sure happens enough with *pro*
gun organizations.  The bad news follows in the post below:

>Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 13:39:34 -0500 (EST)
>From: [e-mail] (Mark C M)
>To: Multiple recipients of list <[e-mail]>
>Subject: New anti-gun organization
>
>To All Concerned,
>
>Just heard on the local (NJ) radio station that Lousenberg,Schcumer, and
>the brady`s
>are launching a NEW anti-gun organization to be announced on monday
>2/23/98.
>Sorry i don`t have more details on it,  this is just a note to keep
>everyone on their
>respective toes!!! When i hear more i will post.
>
>Regards,
>  MC
>
>_____________________________________________________________________
>You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
>Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
>Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
>
>
>
Regards,
Pat Fosness
NRA certified instructor: Pistol, Rifle, Personal Protection
- --------------------------------------------------------------
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will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the
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- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 11:04:18 -0700
From: DAVID SAGERS <[e-mail]>
Subject: builders hardware -Forwarded

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From: Douglas Davis <[e-mail]>
To: Multiple recipients of list <[e-mail]>
Subject: builders hardware
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
X-Comment: Anti-Gun-Ban list

Forwarded message follows:

Howdy All. . .

  This was on another list. . .FYI. . . .

  Cas Gadomski
  Alaska

Some of you may remember a few weeks ago when I posted a message
regarding the Builder's Square/Hechinger Company merger. Well, I
just returned from my local Builders Square/HQ store, where I
posted yet another payment to my account. When I presented my check
to the clerk, she promptly returned it and informed me that I
failed to fill it out properly. I normally fill out the payment
checks to HRS. However, the clerk informed me that all future
checks must now be filled out the "Hechinger Company".

So, those of us who were holding out hopes that our favorite
"hardware store" may not be tied with anti-gun efforts can stop
holding out.

Therefore, I am re-issuing this informative post requesting,
suggesting and asking that all home-owners/gun owners begin an
official boycott of Builders' Square immediately.

Again, for those of you who are reading this for the first time,
the Hechinger Company, headed by anti-gunner John W. Hechinger,
bought out the Builder's Square name in September of 1997. All
Builder's Square stores now fly a green HQ banner above the
Builder's Square store logo.

According to the NRA, Hechinger is on a list of "the most prominent
national corporations and/or corporate heads that have used the
company name while actively supporting anti-gun proposals or
organizations. "

The complete listing can be obtained here:

http://www.nra.org/research/rianti.html

The address to the Hechinger Company is as follows:

Hechinger Company
John W. Hechinger, Chrm.
1616 McCormick Drive
Landover, MD  20785
[phone]
Lumber and building supply retailer

Just to be 100% certain, I called the telephone number above and
verified my findings. This is true my friends.

I am asking that anyone who picks up a hammer with the same hand
that he or she picks up a firearm, STOP BUYING FROM BUILDER'S
SQUARE immediately !

The next time that you need hardware supplies, I would like you to
think of other options, even if it means traveling a few miles
more. And, if you even get the urge to walk into a Builder's Square
to buy something, I suggest that you walk out, go to you car, fill
out a check payable to Handgun Control, Inc. and put it in the
mail. Because buying from Builder's Square is essentially the same
as lining HCI's pockets with your money.

Do you really want to pay someone to take your firearms from you ?
Most gun grabbers are willing to do it at their expense, Hechinger
wants you to pay for it ! Tell everyone that you know about this,
and write a letter to Hechinger telling him of your choice to shop
somewhere else.


Follow the money friends, follow the money.

Frank Finch
Canton, MI
******************
Firearms, self-defense, and other information, with LINKS are
available at: http://shell.rmi.net/~davisda  Latest additions are
found in the group NEW with GOA and other alerts under the
heading ALERTS. For those without browser capabilities, send
[request index.txt] to [e-mail] and an index of the files
at this site will be e-mailed to you. Then send [request <filename>]
and the requested file will be sent as a message.
Various shareware programs are archived at:
ftp://shell.rmi.net/pub2/davisda To receive the contents of the
FTP site, send [request index.ftp] to [e-mail]
********************



- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 98 19:20:00 -0700
From: [e-mail] (SCOTT BERGESON)
Subject: Antigun PSA from Barnes

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 10:35:06 -0700
From: GunFlower <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail], [e-mail]
Cc: [e-mail], [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Antigun PSA from Barnes

Interesting! Bill Barnes used to the spokesman for UTA! That little
traitor! Gosh, I fought him when he was at UTA. Look like I'll be
fighting him now that he's at the hospital! I talked with him a couple of
months ago and he was excited to be working for the hospital because it was
such a worthwhile cause.

I think a great thing to do would be to get the anti-light rail crowd and
make an appointment to see him. What a shock he'd face! I think one of
the reasons he left the UTA was that he got sick of fighting the anti-light
rail people. If he thought the anti-light rail people were bad, wait till
he takes on the gun lobby!

He also is a convicted felon. He was caught last year voting twice.
That's a felony. I don't know if it's been taken off his record or not.
Maybe he's getting back at the gun lobby because now he can't own a gun!
What a little sneak!

Regards,

Janalee

> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> To: [e-mail]
> Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 11:26:39 -0700
> From: DAVID SAGERS <[e-mail]>
> Subject: PSA Project LifeLine anti gun on 1190AM Imus in the Morning
> Dallas -Forwarded

> Attached is a message about antigun public service announcements
> running in Dallas. In Utah these same TV PSA are sponsored by IHC.

> I wrote a letter to IHC's President - Scott Parker and copied VP of
> public relations - John Taylor. After a couple of weeks I called John
> Taylor to discuss the PSA.

> We discussed the actual numbers of accidential gun deaths and how the
> PSA are misleading, if not deceptive. I was basically patted on the head
> and told I didn't know what I was talking about. Later I received a
> letter mostly saying that IHC was right and that my information was wrong.

> It is time that we start criticising IHC for running anti gun ads that
> teach kids dangerous and irresponsible gun handling practices.

> These include how to break into a locked gun case, (use your dad's
> birthday), showing kids that when they see a gun they should immediatly
> pick it up, point it at the nearest person and pull the trigger.

> I offered to give my Eddie Eagle video to IHC to use as a PSA, because it
> teaches a much safer and smarter message to kids, "Stop, Don't touch,
> Leave the area and teall an adault." IHC was not interested. Seems that
> IHC is more interested in the political ageda than in providing a
> responsible PSA.

> I did find out that the IHC person pushing this campaign is a Mr. Bill
> Barnes at Primary Children's Medical Center.

> As suggested in the attached e-mail, it is time we find out more about
> this and start the letter writing campaign.
[snip]


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 98 19:53:00 -0700
From: [e-mail] (SCOTT BERGESON)
Subject: More from NRA

From: "larry larsen" <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 07:19:50 -0700

scott,
below is an answer from the nra about your concerns with large capacity
auto
larry

- ----------
Thank you for your note regarding the misinformation that is currently
circulating on the Internet. While I have no idea as to whether Mr.
Decker is mistaken, or making this up, it would appear, at least, that
he already had a problem with NRA. Someone who was truly concerned,
like yourself, would have contacted NRA Headquarters to straighten
this out, like you did.

To set the record straight, let me assure you that NRA is still 100%
opposed to the ban on so-called assault weapons and high capacity
magazines. We support H.R. 1147, Rep. Ron Paul's (R-TX) bill to
repeal the '94 ban, and we are also involved with a legal challenge
to it.

I hope that this helps to ease your concerns, and we appreciate your
taking the time and trouble to ask for clarification. Had Mr. Deckard
bothered to do the same, we might have been able to avoid this
confusion. Perhaps he was not too concerned with the truth. We are,
however, and we will be sure to investigate his claims, to see if
there is a legitimate problem.

Sincerely,

Anthony Roulette
Larry S. Larsen
http://larsenfamily.com/russian_stove/
_=3D_____________________________!
 <|------=3D=3D(______)--------              |____|
  |/////_____________45 ACP___|___|
   \       /|(    )/
   /      /) ___|
  /     o/
 /       /
/o___/


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 01:53:59 -0700
From: "S. Thompson" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Utahns: Make Tone of 2002 Multicultural

http://www.sltrib.com/98/feb/022498/utah/24682.htm

Hmmmm.....

No "sixguns".  No stagecoaches.  No rodeos.
But it's "multicultural".
Yeah, right.

Sarah
(proud member of the GUN culture)


>                                 [Image]
>  [Image] [Image]       Tuesday, February 24, 1998      [Image] [Image]
>
>                 Utahns: Make Tone of 2002 Multicultural
>
>  BY MARTIN RENZHOFER
>  THE SALT LAKE TRIBUNE
>
>
>      If the Atlanta
>  Summer Olympic Games
>  reeked of commercialism and the Winter Games in Nagano celebrated
>  traditional, spiritual values, what will Salt Lake City stand for in
>  2002?
>      ``It's going to be difficult, but I hope those in charge think in
>  terms of arts and ethnic cultures,'' said Linda Smith of Salt Lake
>  City's Repertory Dance Theatre, which sent four dancers to the
>  closing ceremonies. ``I'd hate for the opening and closing ceremonies
>  to look like halftime at the Orange Bowl.''
>      A clue of what's to come came during the Games' closing
>  ceremonies Sunday when Salt Lake City dancers posed with a colorful
>  banner of the 2002 snowflake-like logo while a Wild West stagecoach
>  roared through an inflatable Delicate Arch.
>      Utah's Winter Games, the first Olympiad of the new millennium,
>  offer the state a showcase for the world to see its rich history,
>  diverse cultures and progressive artistic visions.
>                              It is not an accident that its Olympic
>                          theme is ``Contrast, Culture and Courage.''
>      ``The theme we've chosen certainly leaves the door open for lots
>  of interesting interpretation,'' Smith said.
>      Japan gloried in its thousands of years of tradition. Its opening
>  ceremonies were dignified and spiritual. The closing of the Games
>  began the same way, but concluded with spectacular fireworks, lights
>  and banners, taiko drums and energetic dance and music.
>      It was not overstated.
>      ``I hope it's not time to dust off the six-shooters and start
>  living up to every stereotype the West has to offer,'' said Casey
>  Jarman of the Salt Lake City Arts Council after the Salt Lake portion
>  of the ceremonies. ``I didn't like the stagecoach. It was kind of
>  hoaky. But I liked the horses.''
>      Jarman favors including American Indian culture and showing
>  Utah's multicultural heritage.
>      ``We're not celebrating a rodeo,'' said Jarman. ``We have to
>  understand that it is a world event that celebrates the world, the
>  country, the region and the state. We're such a melting pot, much
>  different than Japan.''
>      Notes from a recent meeting of the Utah Cultural Alliance Forum
>  show its concerns for the 2002 Games as well as lessons learned from
>  Nagano's Games.
>      Among the greatest fears was that the effort to represent Utah
>  will not be all-inclusive -- that artistic and cultural offers might
>  be unbalanced, outweighed by history and conservative art.
>      The great hope was that the Games will leave a cultural legacy
>  beyond 2002.
>      ``You might be able to do that with music,'' said Joan Woodbury
>  of Ririe-Woodbury Dance Company. ``The [Mormon] Tabernacle Choir
>  should sing, but I'd like to see other choirs as well. And I'd love
>  to see dance people involved.''
>      Linda Smith, a native Utahn, said it is impossible to ignore
>  Utah's early settlers, and, most notably, the Mormon pioneers.
>      ``How could you avoid it?'' she said. ``It would be ridiculous to
>  deny any aspect of our history. It would be foolish. `Courage' would
>  typify that spirit more than any religious dogma.
>      ``On the other hand, I don't want to characterize the entire
>  state by one area. We need to put all of what Utah has to offer on
>  the table and see what's of value. We need to get rid of the politics
>  and paranoia.''
>      The Utah Cultural Alliance hopes that Olympic organizers will
>  invite open communication and accessibility.
>      ``I come from Living Traditions,'' said Jarman, referring to the
>  annual multicultural festival in Salt Lake. ``I would like to see
>  more American Indian tradition. It would show a deeper commitment to
>  our multicultural heritage. One should think how others around the
>  world will see us.''
>      Olympic organizers also must consider what images television will
>  broadcast. During the recent CBS coverage, quick pans of the closing
>  ceremonies were interrupted by several minutes of commercials.
>      Smith called it the Coca Cola culture.
>      ``I'm concerned about what the camera chooses to focus on,'' she
>  said. It's not fair.''
>      What about the impression that Utah and Salt Lake City make
>  beyond the scope of the Games?
>      ``I'm interested in what takes place culturally in the city for
>  two weeks,'' said Woodbury. ``Not only will people see the Games, but
>  also the opportunities Utah has to offer. What lasts is how people
>  respond. The Games happen every four years, but what we want to do is
>  leave a lasting impression on people.''
>
>
>                                              [PHOTO]
>
>                             Proud Utahns wait at the airport Monday to
>                                 welcome the Olympic flag. (Lynn R.
>                                   Johnson/The Salt Lake Tribune)
>
>   [1998 Winter Olympics]
>
>                [Image] [Tuesday Navigation Bar]  [Image]
>
>                                 [Image]
>
>  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>  ) Copyright 1998, The Salt Lake Tribune
>
>  All material found on Utah OnLine is copyrighted The Salt Lake
>  Tribune and associated news services. No material may be reproduced
>  or reused without explicit permission from The Salt Lake Tribune.
>            --------------------------------------------------
>      Contact The Salt Lake Tribune or Utah OnLine by clicking here.



- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:25:43 -0700
From: DAVID SAGERS <[e-mail]>
Subject: Antigun PSA from Barnes -Reply

I have a copy of Eddie Eagle to give to Barnes.  Maybe we'll be surprised
and IHC will run a clipas a PSA.

Who knows Barnes well enough to make an appointment?


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 98 20:03:00 -0700
From: [e-mail] (SCOTT BERGESON)
Subject: USSC Legislative ALERTS!! (fwd)

I agree with Bart on this issue. I would urge the USSC Board
to reconsider its opinion endorsing HB 304.

Scott Bergeson

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 17:48:48 -0700
From: Bart Grant <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail]
Cc: [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail],
    [e-mail]

Thanks to Scott Bergeson for forwarding the USSC Legislative Alert
to the LP list server which stated:

>>HB 304 - Initiative Process Amendments
This bill would make it more difficult for individuals or groups to have
an initiative submitted to the legislature by providing that the required
number of signatures be obtained from 20 (twenty) counties. Current law
requires that the signatures be obtained from only 15 (fifteen) counties.
The opinion of the Board is that this bill will prevent the legislative
process from being sabotaged by an overload of frivolous initiatives (as
happens frequently in California) and that it will make it more difficult
for anti-gun initiatives (such as Washington's I-676) to be introduced in
Utah.<<

While I agree with USSC on everything else in this alert I must disagree
with their stand on HB304. Utah does not have an "overload of frivolous
initiatives" as California does. This part of their statement is simply
to stir up anti-California sentiments. Utah's initiative requirements
are already among the most difficult in the entire nation.

The important issue to USSC is that HB304 will make it "more difficult for
individuals or groups to have an initiative submitted to the legislature."

Unfortunately not just anti-gun initiatives, but ALL INITIATIVES would be
harder to bring to the Legislature or the voters. If this bill is defeated
I'm sure we would all willingly help USSC defeat anti-gun initiatives. I
certainly would. Passing HB304 is simply shooting ourselves in the foot
(pun intended) by making it harder to bring freedom oriented initiatives
to the ballot.

Bart Grant



- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 98 07:56:00 -0700
From: [e-mail] (SCOTT BERGESON)
Subject: USSC Legislative ALERTS!!

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 22:34:17 -0700
From: GunFlower <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail]

Thank you Bart.  I totally agree.  Those of us who have worked on gathering
signatures knows how hard it is to do this.  I'm very concerned about this
bill.  Janalee


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 10:29:45 -0700
From: Will Thompson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: USSC Legislative ALERTS!! (fwd)

SCOTT BERGESON wrote:
>
> I agree with Bart on this issue. I would urge the USSC Board
> to reconsider its opinion endorsing HB 304.
>
> Scott Bergeson
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 17:48:48 -0700
> From: Bart Grant <[e-mail]>
> To: [e-mail]
> Cc: [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail],
>     [e-mail]
[snip]
>
> While I agree with USSC on everything else in this alert I must disagree
> with their stand on HB304. Utah does not have an "overload of frivolous
> initiatives" as California does. This part of their statement is simply
> to stir up anti-California sentiments. Utah's initiative requirements
> are already among the most difficult in the entire nation.
>
> The important issue to USSC is that HB304 will make it "more difficult for
> individuals or groups to have an initiative submitted to the legislature."
>
> Unfortunately not just anti-gun initiatives, but ALL INITIATIVES would be
> harder to bring to the Legislature or the voters. If this bill is defeated
> I'm sure we would all willingly help USSC defeat anti-gun initiatives. I
> certainly would. Passing HB304 is simply shooting ourselves in the foot
> (pun intended) by making it harder to bring freedom oriented initiatives
> to the ballot.
>
> Bart Grant
>

Yup,

For those of you who are counting....

There was one lone vote in opposition, for the above reasons.
Unfortunately, the person (Sarah) who cast that vote is no longer
allowed to report who voted which way.  The board voted 4-3 to not
allow any member of the board to publish who voted which way for
what reasons.  As stated, who votes which way is "not relevant",
if someone wants that information they can come to the meetings.
Mere moments after that vote, the same four who voted to not publish
got extremely exorcised that the Utah Legislature would vote to
abolish penalties for not filing an oath of office.  They "felt"
that this would remove any ability to hold a legislator "accountable"
for his/her actions.  No irony was perceived...

Will Thompson
- -Hoping more non-compromisers show up and vote at the next USSC
elections.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 10:43:03 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Charles Hardy)
Subject: Re: USSC Legislative ALERTS!! (fwd)

Everytime I start to get anykind of good feeling about USSC, something
like this comes up.  I'm not a member and am not about to join at this
point.  I may join just soon enough to cast a vote next time.  How
long does one have to be a member to vote?

Seems to me somebody could do a great service to those of us in the
gun communtity and the members of USSC, by publishing who voted which
way and any reasons they can glean.  If the board wants to hide their
actions, maybe someone should be looking closer at what they do.
If nothing else, it will make it easier to vote for the right people
next time.


On Thu, 26 Feb 1998,  Will Thompson <[e-mail]> posted:

>Yup,
>
>For those of you who are counting....
>
>There was one lone vote in opposition, for the above reasons.
>Unfortunately, the person (Sarah) who cast that vote is no longer
>allowed to report who voted which way.  The board voted 4-3 to not
>allow any member of the board to publish who voted which way for
>what reasons.  As stated, who votes which way is "not relevant",
>if someone wants that information they can come to the meetings.
>Mere moments after that vote, the same four who voted to not publish
>got extremely exorcised that the Utah Legislature would vote to
>abolish penalties for not filing an oath of office.  They "felt"
>that this would remove any ability to hold a legislator "accountable"
>for his/her actions.  No irony was perceived...
>
>Will Thompson
>-Hoping more non-compromisers show up and vote at the next USSC
>elections.
>


- --

Charles C. Hardy        | If my employer has an opinion on
<[e-mail]>            | these things I'm fairly certain
801.588.7200 (work)        | I'm not the one he'd have express it.

"They have rights who dare maintain them." -- James Russell Lowell

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 13:51:50 -0700
From: "S. Thompson" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: USSC Legislative ALERTS!! (fwd)

At 10:43 AM 2/26/98 -0700, you wrote:
>
>Everytime I start to get anykind of good feeling about USSC, something
>like this comes up.  I'm not a member and am not about to join at this
>point.  I may join just soon enough to cast a vote next time.  How
>long does one have to be a member to vote?
>
>Seems to me somebody could do a great service to those of us in the
>gun communtity and the members of USSC, by publishing who voted which
>way and any reasons they can glean.  If the board wants to hide their
>actions, maybe someone should be looking closer at what they do.
>If nothing else, it will make it easier to vote for the right people
>next time.

I agree with you.

I haven't checked the bylaws, but at the last annual meeting people who
joined before the meeting were allowed to vote.

However, the Board is not going to know what you think unless you tell
THEM.  Their contact information has been made public repeatedly.  In
addition, there are plans for a newsletter which I hope will allow for
letters from the public.

Yes it would be helpful if "somebody" published votes and reasons for those
votes.
And yes, it would be a good idea for "someone" to look more closely at what
the Board does.

The question is, are there any "somebodies" or "someones" out there willing
to do so?  Meetings are open to the public, and always have been.

Sarah
(for myself only)

- -

------------------------------

End of utah-firearms-digest V2 #28
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