ftp.xmission.com/2014.06.ftp.xmission.com.tar/ftp.xmission.com/pub/lists/utah-firearms/archive/utah-firearms.200208

Internet Message Format | 2002-08-18 | 14KB

From: Scott Bergeson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Tales of the Garrison State
Date: 05 Aug 2002 12:55:10 -0600

"President Andrew Johnson declared: "Whenever you hear a man
prating about the Constitution, spot him as a traitor.""

http://www.jbs.org/reviewonline/072802_transcript.htm

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From: Scott Bergeson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fw: HEY ALL YOU HACKERS! eBusiness: HP wins IRS contract
Date: 07 Aug 2002 18:07:01 -0600

NB: HP contributes to the gun-grabbers.

-------- Original Message --------
Reply-To: [e-mail]

Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 9:43 AM

By Larry Dignan
Special to ZDNet News
August 7, 2002, 7:32 AM PT
http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1106-948746.html

Hewlett-Packard said Wednesday that it won a $35 million contract
to supply desktop and notebook PCs to the Internal Revenue Service.

Under the deal, HP will supply the IRS with more than 12,300 Compaq
Evo D500 desktop PCs and monitors and more than 11,000 Compaq Evo
N800 notebooks through PlanetGov, a Chantilly, Va.-based systems
integrator that serves the federal government.

In a statement, HP touted the deal and called it "a competitive
win-back" because the IRS had been a longtime Compaq Computer
customer before switching to an unnamed rival. HP, which has
announced similar deals recently, is trying to deflect concerns
that rivals such as Dell Computer will poach customers while HP
works to absorb Compaq. The IRS, which is trying to upgrade its
systems, is a plum account for a technology company.

In recent days, PC makers have been touting customer wins in
an effort to show they are doing well amid weak IT spending.

On Tuesday, Dell Computer said Sears Roebuck will use its gear
to update the technology infrastructure at 870 stores. Dell
didn't reveal financial details of the deal, but sources said
it is valued at $15 million to $20 million.

Under the deal, Sears will buy 1,800 PowerEdge 2500 servers,
seven PowerVault 220S storage systems, 3,700 OptiPlex GX50
desktops, and 14,600 Dell E551 and E771p monitors.

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From: Scott Bergeson <[e-mail]>
Subject: FW: 2nd Amendment and the original Militia
Date: 15 Aug 2002 08:43:57 -0600

-------- Original Message --------
RE:SECOND AMENDMENT

To the Editor,

Here is the rest of the story about how the 'militia' was
to be provided arms by the national government:

Volume 1, United States Statutes-at-Large
"Fifth Congress, Session II, Chapter 65, page 576"
"An Act providing Arms for the Militia throughout the
United States" July 06, 1798

Sect. 1 Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives
of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That there
shall be provided, at the charge and expense of the government
of the United States, thirty thousand stand of arms, which shall
be deposited by order of the President of the United States, at
suitable places; for the purpose of being sold to the governments
of the respective States, or the militia thereof, under such
regulations, and at such prices as the President of the United
States shall prescribe.

Sect. 2 And be it further enacted, That the President of the
United States be, and he is hereby authorized to cause all
or any part of the arms herein directed to be provided and
deposited for sale, which shall, at any time, remain unsold,
to be delivered to the militia, when called into the service
of the United States, proper receipts and security being
given for the return of same."

Please be fully aware of the fact, that the 'arms provided'
were to be sold to the States or to the MILITIA. Those arms
not sold, could be loaned to the MILITIA, but only if receipts
and proper security were given in return for the loan of the
arm.

Please also note, that the arms were to be sold to the
'governments of the respective States' or 'the MILITIA
thereof'. If the MILITIA were part of the State, why would
Congress expressly designate the sale of arms to either
the 'government of the respective States', or 'the MILITIA
thereof'? Notice also in the title of the Act, the term of
art 'state militia' is not used to designate the MILITIA
that can purchase or use these arms.

If the MILITIA were part of the 'respective States', why
then would Congress offer sale of the arms to the two
different entities as in Sect. 1; 'governments of the
respective States' OR 'the MILITIA thereof'?

If the MILITIA were part of the State government, then the
arms sold to the 'respective States' would then also belong
to the 'State militia'. NO?

What you see here documented in writing, is that Congress
separated the States from the MILITIA. NO arms were to be
given to the MILITIA, only that they were to be loaned to
the MILITIA should the MILITIA volunteer to serve under the
President for pay. Any and all volunteer MILITIA members,
could purchase AT COST, those military style arms, that were
manufactured to government specifications, and were to be
made available for the MILITIA, should they need to purchase
same.

In today's terms, you could go down to your local military
depot, and purchase at cost, a fully automatic arm to use
while a member of the MILITIA, and then keep same for your
own use, even after you were no longer a member of the
volunteer Citizen MILITIA.

I hope these facts will help clear up the confusion over
just who the MILITIA is. The above Act of Congress, was
signed by President Washington.

Yours, Don Schwarz
Stoughton, Mass

>>>>>>> By DEFAULT, when Congress or the People speak of
the 'militia', it is the one comprised of sovereign Citizens,
for by default, this is the only one that existed when this
nation was created. <<<<<

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From: Scott Bergeson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Charlton's Angels: Women Against Gun Control
Date: 16 Aug 2002 13:35:27 -0600

Reply-To: [e-mail]
CC: [e-mail]

Greetings,

Utah Weekly, a new conservative publication, called me
to do a story on Women and Guns.

They wanted to put the Utah Bikini Team on the cover
with guns. I said:

1. We do not sexualize guns.
2. The Utah Bikini team has never helped lobby for any gun rights.
3. The Utah Bikini team will alienate women. This is
not about fashion models with guns. This is about moms
and women protecting their children and those they love.
4. There's more to women than B and B!
5. I said a few more things on how women should inspire men
to be better men, not just inspire them to want their bodies!

Anyway, Utah Weekly was very understanding and agreed
with me. They are a VERY fine publication.

I agreed to be photographed with a gun as long I was
shooting. I asked two other members of WAGC to join the
shooting fun. After a half hour of shooting cameras and
guns, :) one of the ladies said, let's do a Charlie's
Angels pose for Charlton Heston. That was the pose that
turned out best. (WAGC's policy is to have eye and ear
protection on and to be very careful how you are
photographed with a gun.)

That's the pose on the cover story of Utah Weekly.
Charton's Angels: Women Against Gun Control

Underneath that is the caption on the WAGC page about
gun control and pantyhose...

Utah Weekly did a very fine job of reporting. They
really did the RKBA movement good. I gave the reporter
several names of people and gun groups to interview in
Utah and the nation. Because of space and time
restrictions, he was not able to interview all of them.

Nancy Herrington is mentioned in the article. He
interviewed Susan Gonzales of WAGC-FL and she told her
incredible story of self-defense. He tells the history
of WAGC.

Again, I don't typically like to do posing with gun shots,
but this worked. We were at Holladay Gun Club and the
mountains behind us are magnificent. We look like "soccer
moms" defending gun rights. That's the image WAGC wants
to portray. That's how we win people to our cause. (BTW,
I'm not a soccer mom. I'm a music mom. I don't mean to
alienate those who aren't moms or soccer moms. That's
just the slang word ad guys use when they're targeting
their audience.)

Women Against Gun Control is just that. It's not WOMAN
against gun control. It would not be women against gun
control without all the incredible ladies and men who
have made WAGC work.

Thanks to everyone who works so hard for the right to
keep and bear arms. I'm a bit overwhelmed at the interest
in this issue. I had no idea what I was getting into.
I don't know if I would have ever said, "not all women
support gun control" if I would've known how much this
statement would turn my life upside down. But what makes
it worth it is the people I meet, let me rephrase that,
the PATRIOTS I meet who care about our freedom.

I want to especially thank Nancy Herrington, WAGC EVP.
Without her, WAGC would not be in every state in the U.S.
and several foreign countries. She volunteers countless
thousands of hours to this cause. She is certainly one
of "Charlton's Angels." :)

Utah Weekly is on-line at: http://www.utah-weekly.com/

They don't have this issue up yet. I'm going to call
and hound the editor to hurry up and get this on-line.

Best regards,

Janalee Tobias, one of Charlton's Angels

P.S. Feel free to call yourself a Charlton's angel.
It's pretty catchy.

P.S.S. There's a few things that Charlton has done that
has upset some staunch RKBA supporters, but for the most
part, Charlton is my hero. He was a well-respected, rich
actor. He had made his name in movie history. He didn't
need to take on a cause. Because of Charlton, he has
offset the liberal media. People like Heston and Tom
Selleck. Man, they are high caliber men!!! :)

This is an announce list only. If you have info
you'd like to forward to the list, please send it
mailto:[e-mail].

To subscribe, send a blank message
mailto:[e-mail].

The WAGC homepage is at http://www.wagc.com/ .

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From: Charles C Hardy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Judicial Council makes temp rule permanent
Date: 16 Aug 2002 16:10:20 -0600

I just took a call from a SLTrib reporter.  Apparantly the State Judicial
Council today made permament the temporary rule they passed in May
whereby the courtrooms are no longer "secure" areas and are thus,
alledgely, not subject to the gun locker requirement.  Of course, metal
detectors remain and the judges are banning CCW under threat of contempt
of court.  This decision opens up some kind of 45 day comment period.

I'll work to find out how to comment and will then urge everyone to voice
their disapproval of this action.

Among the points I made:

We must not forget that the judges first action was to refuse to comply
with the law.  Only later did they go looking for a legally defensable
reason.

The principles involved in this case could be applied exactly equally to
the ADA or Utah Clean Air Act or any other statute.

If the judges are free to disobey the laws they don't like, we might as
well send the legislature home and let the juges be kings.

Legislative intent was clear.  Government run places that prohibit guns
need to provide storage.

Leaving guns in cars or bushes is much less safe than storing them with
the court.


Charles

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From: Charles C Hardy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Updating your Concealed Carry Permit Information
Date: 19 Aug 2002 14:44:15 -0600

Many of you may have already seen this and I have not verified it
personally.  However, I have no reason to doubt it and it is certainly
the kind of thing government agencies are known for.   In any event,
better safe than sorry so if you have a CCW permit and change addresses,
you'll probably want to check with BCI and get the permit updated
quickly.

Charles

--------- Forwarded message ----------

I just spoke with BCI.

They said that if you move, for example, your carry permit is
INVALID.    They said that if you update your drivers license to
reflect your new address then....for the timeperiod between which the
information on your DL and Permit do NOT match, then your permit is
INVALID until it does match again (i.e. you also update your permit).

I'm posting this just as an FYI.   This looks like a good way for a
good citizen to get in BIG trouble due to administrative
technicalities in the statutes.

Be careful!

I wish the legislators could do something about this or the AG could
issue a rule allowing a 10 or 30 day grace period or something, you
know?

Best Regards,

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