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From: Scott Bergeson <scottb@xmission.com>
Subject: The female advantage in a force-free society
Date: 02 Jul 2002 09:27:07 -0600
The female advantage in a force-free society
----------
Free State Project
by Steve Cobb
"In a society where the use of force is limited to self defense,
and individuals have the right to arm themselves to deal with
aggressors better endowed by nature, men's comparative
advantage in using violent strategies will be nullified." (06/02)
http://www.free-market.net/rd/460360573.html
-
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Scott Bergeson <scottb@xmission.com>
Subject: Study: Guns No Safer When Locked Up
Date: 08 Jul 2002 08:25:49 -0600
On Sun, 7 Jul 2002 19:30:53 -0600 Janalee Tobias
<gunflower@earthlink.net> provided to wagc-ut@yahoogroups.com :
**********************
Study: Guns No Safer When Locked Up
Saturday, July 06, 2002
By Dan Springer
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,57051,00.html
SEATTLE - Trigger locks and gun safes don't reduce
the number of gun accidents, and they actually put
gun owners and their families in greater danger, a
new report says.
"What happens is it makes them more vulnerable to
crime," said John R. Lott, Jr., a University of
Chicago Law School professor who has published
the study Safe-Storage Gun Laws: Accidental Deaths,
Suicide and Crime. "Criminals become more emboldened
to attack people in their home."
Lott cited a Merced, Calif. family whose guns were
put away because of the state's safe storage law.
John Carpenter, who lost two children in an attack
in 2000, said a gun would have stopped the man who
broke into his home with a pitchfork.
"If a gun had been here, today I'd have at least a
daughter alive," Carpenter said.
For several years, gun control advocates have been
quoting a study that reached a very different
conclusion. University of Washington doctors claimed
that in a dozen states which had safe storage laws,
39 children's lives were saved.
But the study has been widely discredited because
the researchers never factored in that accidental
gun deaths have been falling everywhere for decades.
Nevertheless, 18 states have passed safe storage laws.
Lobbyists who fight for the legislation call Lott's
research nonsense.
"He's argued after the tragedy at Jonesboro, Ark.,
the school shooting, that if the teachers had been
armed, they could have prevented the shooting. This
is an extremist, someone who believes that everyone
in society should be armed at all times," said Matt
Bennett, a spokesman for Americans for Gun Safety
Foundation.
But Lott counters that the number of gun accidents
among law-abiding citizens is remarkably low given
that about 90 million Americans own firearms. Far
more children die each year from drowning and poisons.
And when tragedy does strike, Lott said, it usually
happens in a home where there is a criminal history.
"You're having these law abiding households lock up
these guns where the risks of accidental gun deaths
is essentially zero," he said.
Still, gun locks enjoy wide support. President Bush
has said that if Congress passed a bill requiring
them, he would sign it. But this latest study provides
opponents with a new weapon in their arsenal.
To subscribe, send a blank message to:
mailto:wagc-ut-subscribe@yahoogroups.com .
The WAGC homepage is at http://www.wagc.com .
-
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From: Charles C Hardy <utbagpiper@juno.com>
Subject: Fw: Arizona again recognizes Utah
Date: 11 Jul 2002 11:00:58 -0600
This is of interest to Utah CCW holders who visit Arizona or Arizona CCW
holders who visit Utah. Please note, under Utah law, ANY and all CCW
permits from other US jurisdictions are recognized--no need for a
reciprocity agreement. However, with or without an agreement, Utah only
recognizes out of State CCW permits for 60 consecutive days. I don't
know exactly how that would be enforced--since we don't have passports at
the Utah border--other than self-incrimination or 24-7 survellience of a
subject. But in any event, be aware of that limitation.
The following info is basically taken from the AZ DPS web site at
http://www.dps.state.az.us/ccw/recip.htm
Charles
----- Forwarded Message -----
Friends,
For your information. Arizona once again recognizes Utah's permit. I
should add this was NOT Arizona's decision the first place to deny alter
the agreement. It was done at the behest of Utah BCI.
[Charles' comment: Looks like our legislators need to remind BCI that
their job is to facilitate CCW, not hinder it.]
The State of Arizona recognizes permits to carry concealed from the
following states: Alaska, Arkansas, Kentucky, Utah, Texas
These states have an active CCW reciprocal agreement on file with the
State of Arizona. This means your Arizona permit allows you to carry
concealed under their respective state statute, and Arizona will
reciprocate by recognizing CCW permits issued by these states.
Utah Reciprocal Agreement Reinstated
ARIZONA DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY
POST OFFICE BOX 6638
PHOENIX, AZ 85005-6638
July 2, 2002
Arizona CCW permit holders will now be allowed to carry concealed in the
state of Utah for a period of 60 days. If a person with an out-of-state
permit remains in Utah for longer than 60 consecutive days, that person
is required to obtain a Utah permit. Utah permit holders are allowed to
carry concealed in the State of Arizona.
________________________________________________________________
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Charles C Hardy <utbagpiper@juno.com>
Subject: Fw: A.G. of Utah Needs Help!
Date: 11 Jul 2002 11:29:04 -0600
All,
The following is forwarded from Women Against Gun Control founder,
Janalee Tobias. If you have a first-hand, armed, self-defense story, and
would be willing to share it to help our AG win his lawsuit against the
UofU, please contact Janalee via email. Incidents on or around a college
campus would be particularly helpful, but any location is fine.
You're also free to send the information to me at utbagpiper@juno.com and
I'll make sure it gets to the AG.
Charles Hardy
----- Forwarded Message -----
Greetings!
The University of Utah is suing the A.G. of Utah and the State of Utah
for the right to ban guns on university and college campuses in Utah even
though state allows CCW holders to carry guns without restriction except
in places where there are secure facilities and even though the A.G.'s
office has overturned Utah Governor Leavitt's ban on public employees and
public institutions from carrying guns.
To aid in this lawsuit, Mark Shurtleff, Utah's A.G., has asked Women
Against Gun Control to ask people who have used a gun to defend
themselves and who would be willing to sign an affidavit testifying to
this to contact Women Against Gun Control. Someone from the Utah A.G.'s
office will contact you if you will provide WAGC with contact
information.
Stories about guns being used for self-defense on campus and/or parking
lots and/or college housing surrounding college and/or university
campuses would be especially valuable but not necessary.
Please send your name, address, e-mail address, and telephone numbers
ASAP to:
Nancy Herrington, WAGC EVP
sw357mag@mindspring.com
or
Janalee Tobias, President and Founder, WAGC
gunflower@earthlink.net
or
info@wagc.com
WAGC will only provide this information to the Utah A.G.'s office.
The deadline for the A.G.'s office to submit these affidavits is the
first of August. Please send contact information ASAP.
Best regards,
Janalee Tobias, President
Women Against Gun Control
"Guns Give Women a Fighting Chance"
"The 2nd Amendment IS the Equal Rights Amendment"
www.wagc.com
P.S. The people who are instigating the lawsuit against the A.G.'s
office and the State of Utah are the same people who walked out on a
panel discussion with Janalee Tobias and who also said that "CCW holders
should be shot."
________________________________________________________________
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-
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: <karlp@ourldsfamily.com>
Subject: Weapons ban results in unnecessary deaths
Date: 14 Jul 2002 18:51:46 -0600 (MDT)
This news story is dated April 20th
BOSTON -- National guard units seeking to confiscate a cache of recently
banned assault rifles were ambushed on April 19th by elements of a
paramilitary extremist faction. Military and law enforcement officials
estimate that 72 were killed and more than 200 injured before government
forces were compelled to withdraw.
Speaking after the clash, Massachusetts Governor Thomas Gage declared that
the extremist faction, which was made up of local citizens, has links to
the radical right-wing tax protest movement.
Gage blamed the extremists for recent incidents of vandalism directed
against internal revenue offices. The governor, who described the group's
organizers as "criminals," issued an executive order authorizing the
summary arrest of any individual who has interfered with the government's
efforts to secure law and order.
The military raid on the extremist arsenal followed widespread refusal by
the local citizenry to turn over recently outlawed assault weapons. Gage
issued a ban on military-style assault weapons and ammunition earlier in
the week. This decision followed a meeting earlier this month between
government and military leaders at which the governor authorized the
forcible confiscation of illegal arms.
One government official, speaking on condition of anonymity, pointed out
that "none of these people would have been killed had the extremists obeyed
the law and turned over their weapons voluntarily."
Government troops initially succeeded in confiscating a large supply of
outlawed weapons and ammunition. However, troops attempting to seize arms
and ammunition in Lexington met with resistance from heavily-armed
extremists who had been tipped-off regarding the government's plan.
During a tense standoff in Lexington's town park, National Guard Colonel
Francis Smith, commander of the government operation, ordered the armed
group to surrender and return to their homes. The impasse was broken by a
single shot, which was reportedly fired by one of the right-wing
extremists.
Eight civilians were killed in the ensuing exchange. Ironically, the local
citizenry blamed government forces rather than the extremists for the
civilian deaths. Before order could be restored, armed citizens from
surrounding areas had descended upon the guard units. Colonel Smith,
finding his forces overmatched by the armed mob, ordered a retreat.
Governor Gage has called upon citizens to support the state/national joint
task force in its effort to restore law and order. The governor has also
demanded the surrender of those responsible for planning and leading the
attack against the government forces. Samuel Adams, Paul Revere, and John
Hancock, who have been identified as "ringleaders" of the extremist
faction, remain at large.
Yes, it was on April 20, 1775.
-
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From: Charles C Hardy <utbagpiper@juno.com>
Subject: Fw: FW: Mass House votes to loosen gun laws
Date: 15 Jul 2002 13:31:15 -0600
Not of direct concern to Utahns, but an interesting twist that may be of
interest. Ironic that as Utah's Demos and other anti-gunners continue to
push for expansion of the prohibited person list, the liberals in the PR
of Mass. are actually giving serious consideration to restoring rights to
those who really don't pose any threat.
The final paragraph sums it up well.
Charles
--------- Forwarded message ----------
http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/192/metro/House_votes_to_loosen_gun_law
s+.shtml
House votes to loosen gun laws
Mass. bill would let felons buy, carry arms
By Chris Tangney, Globe Correspondent, 7/11/2002
The state House yesterday overwhelmingly approved a bill
that would weaken landmark gun control laws passed in 1998,
voting for legislation that would allow convicted felons
to legally obtain and carry a gun in Massachusetts.
Backed by House Speaker Thomas M. Finneran's leadership team,
the bill passed 114-32 despite outraged gun control advocates
and legislators who denounced the House for loosening gun
restrictions while violent crime is on the rise.
"The Legislature should be looking to get illegal firearms
off the street, not re-arm violent criminals", said Jerry
Belair, spokesman for Stop Handgun Violence, an antigun
advocacy group.
State Representative Timothy J. Toomey, lead sponsor of the
bill, argued that the current prohibition penalizes law-abiding
citizens for minor offenses committed when they were young -
someone who wants to join a police force, for example, and
can't because of a schoolyard fight.
"There are too many people who were convicted of a simple
assault or battery", said Toomey, a Cambridge Democrat who
voted in 1998 for gun control reforms. "It could have happened
20 or 30 years ago. They have since served their country and
are good citizens."
________________________________________________________________
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Charles C Hardy <utbagpiper@juno.com>
Subject: Pro-Armed-Pilots editorial in today's SLTrib
Date: 18 Jul 2002 12:48:44 -0600
Don't know what they've put in the water over at the Trib, but they
finally got one right with regard to firearms.
It is interesting to note that while the Bush administration's
transportation head opposes arming pilots due to the belief that "pilots
should focus on flying the plane," he is not opposed to letting them
carry non-lethal weapons. Now which is going to present a bigger
distraction for a longer period of time: Putting 6 or 7 bullets into the
head and torso of a hijacker who has just breached the cockpit door, or
holding a stun gun against the same hijacker's rib cage waiting fo rhim
to go down, or even sparying the bad guy with pepper spray and waiting
for him to go and stay down?
Charles
http://www.sltrib.com/07182002/opinion/opinion.htm
Arm Pilots
As the last line of defense against hijackers, airline pilots who
have been trained and deputized by the federal government should be
allowed to carry firearms in the cockpit. The House of Representatives
passed such a bill last week, and the Senate should follow suit.
The Bush administration, through the Transportation Security
Administration, opposes the House bill. The TSA argues that heightened
screening of passengers, reinforced cockpit doors and plainclothes
federal air marshals on guard in airliner cabins are better and
presumably safer means to thwart hijackings. The TSA also argues that
pilots should not be distracted by security duties and should focus only
on flying the aircraft.
But the men and women who fly the planes overwhelmingly favor arming
pilots who volunteer to be trained for the task. They reason correctly
that hijackers with weapons could slip through security, and that despite
the presence of air marshals, pilots should be armed to defend the
cockpit of an aircraft in a last-ditch attempt to prevent hijackers from
taking control. Commercial airliners carry two pilots. While one flies
the plane, the other could try to stop an intruder.
Under the House bill, deputized pilots with firearms would not be
required or even allowed to use guns outside the cockpit itself. They
would not be allowed to leave the controls to use a firearm to deal with
a disturbance in the cabin. Their only role would be to defend the
cockpit.
It is legitimate to worry whether a hijacker could overpower a pilot
and take his firearm or whether gunfire could injure or kill a pilot or
passenger or could damage the aircraft. But those risks already exist
with armed air marshals. While it is true that pilots would not have the
depth of training or combat experience of a marshal, many pilots are
military veterans, and their use of firearms in the cockpit presumably
would only occur when the efforts of the marshal, if one were present,
and the rest of the crew to protect the cockpit had failed.
As a last line of defense, training and arming pilots is a
justifiable risk.
________________________________________________________________
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Charles C Hardy <utbagpiper@juno.com>
Subject: FW-- PSA : Intro gun training class
Date: 22 Jul 2002 11:36:25 -0600
I'm passing the following along for any who may be interested. This
looks like a very introductory class on basic firearms safety and how to
go about deciding on the proper firearm to purchase for self defense.
The class is scheduled at 6:00 pm, this Wednesday, July 24. Planned
length is about 2 hours. It is at about 4900 S and 300 W. in the Salt
Lake Valley. PLEASE NOTE THAT DUE TO LIMITED SPACE, ALL PARTICIPANTS
NEED TO PRE-REGISTER BY CALLING FRANCIS TULLY AT 259-7112.
Charles
--------- Forwarded message ----------
For more info:
Francis Tully 259-7112
Gary Travis 569-2084
DATE: July 24, 2002 - Wednesday
Introduction to Firearm safety and purchasing a handgun
A Free firearm safety seminar will be held Wednesday, July 24, 2002.
The seminar was designed to help those who have considered a gun
for
personal protection, but feel intimidated or overwhelmed about the
subject
due to their lack of basic firearm and firearm safety knowledge. The
seminar
is for the complete novice who needs a basic introduction to firearms,
gun
safety, and purchasing a firearm for personal safety.
The seminar will give hands-on training, explanation of different
types of firearms and ammunition. Participants will receive:
1. An opportunity to see and handle a variety of firearms and
ammunition.
2. Basic safety instruction.
3. Basic legal information regarding concealed carry.
4. Information on what to look for when selecting a firearm.
5. An opportunity to fire different types of firearms on a
pistol
range.
Attendants must pre-register by calling Armed Response Institute at
569-2084 or calling Fran Tully at 259-7112.
Additional information: Participants are not to bring any firearms
to
the seminar.
________________________________________________________________
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: DarvellHunt@webtv.net (Darvell Hunt)
Subject: My Daily Herlad letter to the editor
Date: 23 Jul 2002 11:08:59 -0600 (MDT)
The Daily Herald (Provo, Utah) published my letter to the editor today
(July 23) about the illegal gun ban of the University of Utah. I wrote
the letter in response to a letter to the editor commending Utah
university presidents who support a gun ban on their campuses. See this
other letter by Amy Hart at:
http://www.harktheherald.com/article.php?sid=54084
My response letter from today can be found at:
http://www.harktheherald.com/article.php?sid=54653
I just wanted to point this out so you wouldn't miss it.
Darvell Hunt
Saratoga Springs, Utah
-
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From: "David Sagers" <dsagers@ci.west-valley.ut.us>
Subject: Re: My Daily Herlad letter to the editor
Date: 23 Jul 2002 12:30:56 -0600
Excellent response. Thanks!
>>> Darvell Hunt <DarvellHunt@webtv.net> 07/23/02 11:08AM >>>
=20
The Daily Herald (Provo, Utah) published my letter to the editor today
(July 23) about the illegal gun ban of the University of Utah. I wrote
the letter in response to a letter to the editor commending Utah
university presidents who support a gun ban on their campuses. See this
other letter by Amy Hart at:
http://www.harktheherald.com/article.php?sid=3D54084=20
My response letter from today can be found at:
http://www.harktheherald.com/article.php?sid=3D54653=20
I just wanted to point this out so you wouldn't miss it.
Darvell Hunt
Saratoga Springs, Utah
-
-
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From: Scott Bergeson <scottb@xmission.com>
Subject: Rights and Revolution
Date: 24 Jul 2002 15:05:34 -0600
On the moral use of violence in revolution and
why government ought to conform its behavior
to what gets taught in civics classes, Clayton
Cramer's fantastic article in Shotgun News.
http://www.claytoncramer.com/RightsAndRevolution.PDF
You'll need Acrobat, alas.
Scott Bergeson
-
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: <karlp@ourldsfamily.com>
Subject: Military Homilies
Date: 24 Jul 2002 18:53:34 -0600 (MDT)
---
This item was forwarded by a retired USAF major
who says, "These have merit."... --rc
---
"Sometimes I think war is God's way of teaching us geography."
--Paul Rodriguez
"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you least
expect it. That would make you quite unpopular with what's left of your
unit" -- Army's magazine of preventive maintenance.
"Aim towards the Enemy" -- Instruction printed on US rocket launcher
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
Cluster bombing from B-52s is very, very accurate. The bombs always hit the
ground.
If the enemy is in range, so are you.
It is generally inadvisable to eject directly over the area you just
bombed.
Whoever said the pen is mightier than the sword obviously never encountered
automatic weapons.
Try to look unimportant; they may be low on ammo.
Tracers work both ways.
Five second fuses only last three seconds.
Don't ever be the first, don't ever be the last, and don't ever volunteer
to do anything.
Bravery is being the only one who knows you're afraid.
If your attack is going too well, you may have walked into an ambush.
No combat ready unit has ever passed inspection.
Any ship can be a minesweeper . . . once.
Never tell the Platoon Sergeant you have nothing to do.
Don't draw fire; it irritates the people around you.
Mines are equal opportunity weapons.
If you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn't plan your mission
properly.
--
Randy Cassingham, author of THIS is TRUE * http://www.thisistrue.com
and Publisher of HeroicStories * http://www.HeroicStories.com
FIGHT SPAM! See http://www.SpamPrimer.com or email Info@SpamPrimer.com
============================================================
Forwarding these messages is fine -- keeping the next line is appreciated:
To SUBSCRIBE to this list, e-mail RandysRandom-subscribe@topica.com
-
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Charles C Hardy <utbagpiper@juno.com>
Subject: http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,405019944,00.html
Date: 25 Jul 2002 12:15:22 -0600
I haven't read the particulars, and the devil is always in the details.
But this report makes this bill look like a worthy effort--though simply
allowing such firearms to be kept sans registration would be far better.
Charles
From today's DesNews:
http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,405019944,00.html
Cannon offers bill on 'war-trophy' guns
WASHINGTON ù Rep. Chris Cannon worries that veterans who brought
home war-trophy machine guns but never registered them could face prison
and fines.
So he and Rep. Jim Gibbons, R-Nev., introduced a bill Tuesday that
could give them time to legally register and keep the guns. "When
veterans returned home from fighting overseas, they were concerned about
reuniting with family and finishing school, not registering their
firearms," Cannon, R-Utah, said.
"Now the machine guns they brought back are illegal and cannot be
registered, and veterans or their family members are required to
surrender them to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms for
destruction," Cannon said.
"In many cases these war relic firearms are worth thousands of
dollars. But in all cases they are meaningful souvenirs for our nation's
veterans," he said.
The bill would give veterans a 90-day period to register such
firearms. To qualify, the arms must have been acquired before Oct. 31,
1968, by a member of the armed forces while stationed outside the
continental United States.
The bill will also allow family members to register firearms
inherited from veterans.
________________________________________________________________
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Scott Bergeson <scottb@xmission.com>
Subject: FW: First article up
Date: 27 Jul 2002 08:39:37 -0600
-------- Original Message --------
The Chief decided to run with the review of "Boston's Gun
Bible" I cobbled together.
http://www.sierratimes.com/02/07/26/hunter.htm
Should any of you be talking to or ordering books from
Javelin Press (or bump into BTP), point out the review
to them. I've been trying to email the main Javelin Press
email address, and their mailbox is full. Had hoped to
let him know about it so the massive surge of sales from
my promotion of the book wouldn't overwhelm them...
<twinkle>
---
Hunter's Eighty-Ninth Rule: If you're no damn good,
at least be good at it.
Ceterum censeo fiscum delendum esse
-
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From: Charles C Hardy <utbagpiper@juno.com>
Subject: ID. Sen. Craig with Schumer, Kennedy, McCain on background checks
Date: 30 Jul 2002 17:16:06 -0600
This doesn't look like good news to me. Just another step away from
actually treating RKBA as a RIGHT rather than a privlege.
Charles
http://www.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/07/30/gun.checks.ap/index.html
Senate bill would strengthen background checks
July 30, 2002 Posted: 4:06 PM EDT (2006 GMT)
WASHINGTON (AP) -- A self-described "odd-quad" of senators urged the
government Tuesday to strengthen its gun buyer instant background check
system by requiring federal agencies to contribute to the system and
states to computerize their criminal records.
The bill, introduced by Democratic Sens. Charles Schumer of New York and
Edward Kennedy of Massachusetts, and Republican Sens. John McCain of
Arizona and Larry Craig of Idaho, would require states and federal
agencies to automate their records and add them to the FBI's National
Instant Criminal Background Check System.
Background checks for prospective gun buyers have been required since
February 1994 under the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act. More than
689,000 people have been denied a gun for failing a background check.
But faulty records allowed at least 9,976 prohibited buyers to buy a gun
from December 1998 to June 2001, according to a report by Americans for
Gun Safety.
Schumer, Kennedy, McCain and Craig all have different ideas about gun
ownership in America and usually are on different sides in the Senate.
But "the background check system is something we all agree on," Schumer
said at a joint news conference.
"When you see the four of us together, we're not an odd couple, we're an
odd-quad," Craig said. "But on this issue we have a very common and very
important purpose. We do not believe that those (criminals and the
mentally ill) ought to have the right to own a gun."
The FBI's system is supposed to identify felons, drug addicts, domestic
abusers, illegal immigrants, people who were involuntarily committed to a
mental institution and others legally barred from having a gun.
It relies on states and other federal agencies to provide criminal,
mental health and other records, but many are incomplete or outdated.
McCain said officials estimate that there are 30 million records missing
from the national database.
The legislation authorizes Congress to spend more than $1.1 billion for
states and courts to update their records and submit them to the
database. It also requires agencies like the Immigration and
Naturalization Service and Veterans Affairs to provide their records to
it to ensure illegal aliens or the mentally ill don't get weapons.
"In a nation where you can walk into any store and swipe your credit card
and have an instant accounting of financial capability, and we cannot do
something similar to determine whether that individual is legal or
illegal in the action of purchasing a firearm? Shame on us," Craig said.
A similar bill awaits a vote in the House. The senators say there is
agreement on both sides to get the legislation done quickly.
"I have every expectation that in September we will pass this legislation
and it will be signed by the president," McCain said.
________________________________________________________________
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Scott Bergeson <scottb@xmission.com>
Subject: The Goose and Gander Amendment
Date: 30 Jul 2002 18:56:00 -0600
-------- Original Message --------
Not a bad plan, though I don't think Dave Kopel carries it far enough.
Why restrict the idea to just firearms law?
http://www.nationalreview.com/kopel/kopel073002.asp
---
Hunter's Hundred Seventy-Fourth Rule: A wise man watches
his allies at least as closely as his enemies.
Ceterum censeo fiscum delendum esse
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