ftp.xmission.com/2014.06.ftp.xmission.com.tar/ftp.xmission.com/pub/lists/utah-firearms/archive/utah-firearms.200203

Internet Message Format | 2002-03-28 | 64KB

From: "Larry Larsen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Dell Computers becomes anti-gun.
Date: 03 Mar 2002 20:33:11 -0700

Not so read this,    http://www.sierratimes.com/02/03/01/jjjohnson.htm

Larry

-----Original Message-----
[mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of Charles C
Hardy
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 4:52 PM


I've made no attempts to verify the following, but assuming it is
accurate, it looks like Dell computers are not a good place for gun
owners to spend money.

--------- Forwarded message ----------
Not to be confused with Superdell and Totally Awesome.

----------
>
> Subject: To all of my friends
>
> I am writing this because I feel every Firearms owner should know this
> story.
>
> I placed an order for a Dell notebook computer on February 13 on line
> with Dell. I was given a tentative delivery date of February 21st. I
was
> watching the order through the Dell on line tracking system; I also
> opted for the automatic email notification of when the machine was to
be
> shipped.
>
> Well the 21st came and went, I am a Pistolsmith I know things
> can happen. I made a phone call on the 25th, did a voice mail message
> for my salesman to get back to me and I was looking for the delivery
> date.
>
> The 25th came and went with no callback. On the 26th I placed
> another call this time to cancel the order. After a few hours I got a
> call back, with this amazing reason for the delay. It seems someone in
> Dell had already canceled my order, when I asked why I was told Dell
was
> afraid I was going to use the machine for illegal purposes.
>
> When I askedwhy someone would think that I was told
> it was because of the name of my business "Weigand Combat Handguns
Inc.".
> Because I am involved in firearms I might be doing something illegal.
Now
> keep in mind I was never called or informed of this decision the order
was
> just canceled.
>
> Many of you know me personally and know I run my business about as
> squeaky clean as possible. In addition being the President of the
> American Pistolsmiths Guild I am under additional scrutiny as to how I
> run my business, if I am not clean how can I be the President of an
> organization that promotes just that! I was informed by a Dell
> supervisor not long after all of this the reason I was refused was
> because of their post September 11th policy of screening buyers.
>
> I would like to respectfully ask the firearms community to do the
> following. If you intended to buy a Dell and because of this letter you
> do not, email Dell and let them know why. Feel free to distribute this
> account to all you know in the Firearms community, I think they need to
> know.
>
> I for one am sick and tired of people assuming just because we are
> involved with firearms that we are doing something illegal. I also do
> not believe Dell deserves our business if this is how they intend to
> treat us.
>
> God Bless
> Jack Weigand
> President
> American Pistolsmiths Guild Inc.
>
>
>
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From: Scott Bergeson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fantastica Review: The Probability Broach, by L. Neil Smith
Date: 04 Mar 2002 09:32:38 -0700

http://www.mervius.com/books/2002/probability_broach.htm

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From: charles hardy <[e-mail]>
Subject: HB 219 fourth on Calander, but cirecled--call and/or email tonight
Date: 04 Mar 2002 19:09:55 -0700

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Morgan Philpot's HB 219 which would eliminate the fees to obtain a State
issued CCW permit was fourth on the House calander, but was "circled"
(meaning it was held up).  Please call your representatives at 538-1029
and ask them to support this bill, first with a vote to "uncircle" and
then with a vote in favor of the bill.  You can also try email though
that tends to be less effective.  You can also call them and leave
messages at home for them this evening.

Also, Philpot's HB 183, which removes fees for the pre-purchase State
"brady" check is still languising in the Senate as is Rep. Swallow's safe
storage bill, HB 82, and Rep. Thompson's HB 287.  For some reason, the
Senate chose to adjourn early tonight (about 5:30 pm) rather than acting
on  these and other important bills.

Please contact your senators and senate leadership this evening at home,
or tomorrow at the capital and ask them to support these bills.

Utah State Senate
Phone [phone] or Fax [phone]

Utah State House of Representatives
Phone [phone] or Fax [phone]


----------------
Charles Hardy
<[e-mail]>
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<DIV>Morgan Philpot's HB 219 which would eliminate the fees to obtain a =
State=20
issued CCW permit was fourth on the House calander, but was "circled" (=
meaning=20
it was held up).  Please call your representatives at 538-1029 and ask=
 them=20
to support this bill, first with a vote to "uncircle" and then with a vote =
in=20
favor of the bill.  You can also try email though that tends to be =
less=20
effective.  You can also call them and leave messages at home for them=
 this=20
evening.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Also, Philpot's HB 183, which removes fees for the pre-purchase State=
=20
"brady" check is still languising in the Senate as is Rep. Swallow's safe=20
storage bill, HB 82, and Rep. Thompson's HB 287.  For some reason, the=
=20
Senate chose to adjourn early tonight (about 5:30 pm) rather than acting=20
on  these and other important bills.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Please contact your senators and senate leadership this evening at =
home, or=20
tomorrow at the capital and ask them to support these bills.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Utah State Senate<BR>Phone [phone] or Fax [phone]<BR><BR=
>Utah=20
State House of Representatives<BR>Phone [phone] or Fax (801)=20
538-1908<BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR>----------------<BR>Charles Hardy<BR><<A=20
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A>><BR></DIV></=
BODY></HTML>

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Charles C Hardy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Pro-gun bills on Senate second read calander--call now and urge support
Date: 05 Mar 2002 16:37:12 -0700

Friends,

It looks like all of our pro-gun House bills are now on the Senate Second
Read Calander.

PLEASE CALL AND FAX NOW AND URGE YOUR SENATOR AND SENATE LEADERSHIP TO
SUPPORT THESE BILLS AND MAKE SURE THEY DO GET VOTED ON TODAY AND PASSED.

Messages for senators can be left at the capital at [phone].  You
can generally leave a message for at least 4 or 5 senators per call, so I
suggest you leave a message for your Senator, plus senate leadership:
President Al Mansell, Majority Leader Steve Poulton, Majority Whip John
Valentine, Asst. Majority Whip, Peter Knudson.

Faxes can be sent to [phone].

Email is less effective, but better than nothing.  The senate email is
flaky if sent from an outside email server.  You are better off using
their stupid web based service at
http://beta.utahsenate.org/perl/sperl/roster.pl  Just click on the
senator to whom you wish to send email, then click on the email link.
You can also try direct email.  A list of addresses can be had at:
http://www.utgoa.org/resources/legcontact02.html

Please be polite, but firm, in all communications with elected officials.

Charles

Bills include:

HB 287 CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS OF STATE EMPLOYEES

H.B. 82 1st Sub. STORAGE OF WEAPONS ON FACILITIES WITH SECURE AREAS

H.B. 183 FIREARM CRIMINAL BACKGROUND CHECK AMENDMENTS

H.B. 336 1st Sub. USE OF FORCE, INCLUDING DEADLY FORCE, IN DEFENSE OF
PROPERTY
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Scott Bergeson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Firearms laws don't work - Richard L. Partridge LTE
Date: 05 Mar 2002 17:24:24 -0700

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,375013847,00.html?

Deseret News, Tuesday, March 05, 2002

Firearms laws don't work

Regarding your editorial on concealed weapons on campus:
For the life of me, I can't imagine how the "gun issue
is tied to academic freedom" and "that the presence of
firearms on a college campus would undermine a free
exchange of ideas." A concealed weapon is not even in
view, and no one but the bearer is normally even aware
of its presence.

I would agree "that college campuses are unique because
they are gathering places of people with vastly divergent
backgrounds and points of view." However, it is irrational
to make it a safe haven for criminals by declaring it a
"gun-free" zone. Restrictive firearms laws only protect
criminals by disarming their potential victims.

U. President Bernie Machen ranted that "we prohibit guns
at mental hospitals or prisons, why not college campuses?"
To which a more rational legislator replied, "because our
students are not mentally ill or criminals." Now that's
common sense and has nothing to do with "political whim."

The bottom line is this: Our Utah Constitution says that
"the individual right of the people to keep and bear arms
for security and defense of self, family, others, property
or the state, as well as for other lawful purposes, shall
not be infringed." And, the best reason I can think of for
that is the fact that if infringements of that right would
make us safer, New York City and Washington, D.C., would be
the safest places on earth. Try that on for common sense.

Richard L. Partridge

Brigham City


⌐ 2002 Deseret News Publishing Company

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From: Charles C Hardy <[e-mail]>
Subject: CONGRATS!!  SB 147, restriction on funding passes Senate Second Reading
Date: 05 Mar 2002 12:29:18 -0700

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Sen. Waddoups' SB 147, which will allow any legislator to point out cases
where a State agency is violating State law via illegal rules or policies
and to allow the legislature to easily cut the ADMINISTRATIVE portion of
the budget of that agency if they do not comply (IE, if the UofU does not
drop its illegal gun ban, the budget of the administrators who are
responsible for the illegal rule will be cut, but not the budget that
goes to classrooms or teachers), has passed its second reading the senate
on a 15-11-3 vote.  Roll call below.  Please contact senators and urge
them to get the third vote taken and send this much needed bill to the
house.  While gun bans are one area, they are not the only area of
concern.  Numerous STate agencies disregard legislative intent and clear
language of the law because there are few to no consequences.  This bill
will be a big step to changing that.

Charles

15 YEAS   11 NAYS   3 ABSENT              PASSED


        YEAS 15

        Bramble          Hellewell        Mayne            Waddoups

        Buttars          Hickman          Spencer          Wright

        Eastman          Jenkins          Stephenson       Mansell

        Gladwell         Knudson          Valentine


        NAYS 11

        Allen, E.        Dmitrich         Julander         Suazo

        Allen, R.        Evans            Peterson         Walker

        Davis            Hillyard         Steele


        ABSENT 3

        Blackham         Hale             Poulton
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<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Sen. Waddoups' SB 147, which will allow any legislator to point out =
cases=20
where a State agency is violating State law via illegal rules or policies =
and to=20
allow the legislature to easily cut the ADMINISTRATIVE portion of the =
budget of=20
that agency if they do not comply (IE, if the UofU does not drop its =
illegal gun=20
ban, the budget of the administrators who are responsible for the illegal =
rule=20
will be cut, but not the budget that goes to classrooms or teachers), has =
passed=20
its second reading the senate on a 15-11-3 vote.  Roll call below.&=
nbsp;=20
Please contact senators and urge them to get the third vote taken and send =
this=20
much needed bill to the house.  While gun bans are one area, they are =
not=20
the only area of concern.  Numerous STate agencies disregard =
legislative=20
intent and clear language of the law because there are few to no=20
consequences.  This bill will be a big step to changing that.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Charles</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>15 YEAS   11 NAYS   3=20
ABSENT           &=
nbsp; =20
PASSED<BR>       =20
<BR>       =20
<BR>        YEAS=20
15<BR>       =20
<BR>       =20
Bramble         =20
Hellewell       =20
Mayne           =20
Waddoups        =20
<BR>       =20
Buttars         =20
Hickman         =20
Spencer         =20
Wright          =20
<BR>       =20
Eastman         =20
Jenkins         =20
Stephenson      =20
Mansell         =20
<BR>       =20
Gladwell        =20
Knudson         =20
Valentine       =20
<BR>       =20
<BR>       =20
<BR>        NAYS=20
11<BR>       =20
<BR>        Allen,=20
E.       =20
Dmitrich        =20
Julander        =20
Suazo           =20
<BR>        Allen,=20
R.       =20
Evans           =20
Peterson        =20
Walker          =20
<BR>       =20
Davis           =20
Hillyard        =20
Steele          =20
<BR>       =20
<BR>       =20
<BR>        ABSENT=20
3<BR>       =20
<BR>       =20
Blackham        =20
Hale            =
;=20
Poulton         =20
</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Charles C Hardy <[e-mail]>
Subject: HB 183 released from Senate rules to Senate Second Read Calander
Date: 05 Mar 2002 15:44:43 -0700

Congratulations!

Your calls, faxes, and emails look like they are having effect.  Rep.
Philpot's HB 183 to eliminate the $7.50 fee charged to gun buyers to
perform the State "Brady" pre-purchase background check has, according to
the legislative web page, been released from Senate Rules and is now on
the Senate Second read calander as of 3:00 pm today.

When you get a chance, please thank the members of the Senate rules
committee for releasing this bill for a vote.

For now, please contact YOUR senator, plus senate leadership and
encourage them to act quickly to approve this bill.

Charles Hardy
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: charles hardy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Calls needed to Senate NOW on SB 147
Date: 06 Mar 2002 10:18:43 -0700

Waddoups' SB 147 that will allow the cutting of the administrative budget
of any agency whose rules violate State law is in trouble.

We need calls to the Senate ASAP.  We probably only have about 15 minutes
(as of 10:10am) to round up a couple of votes.

CALL the Senate at [phone].  You can leave messages for up to 5
Senators with each call.  I suggest leaving a message for your Senator
plus 4 of the following.

Apparantly the following Republicans are waivering:

Mansell
Valentine
Eastman
Knudsen

And Poulton and Walker are still opposed.

Please be polite and respectful.  A simple, "Please support SB 147, it is
very important to me." Is all that is needed.

Charles

----------------
Charles Hardy
<[e-mail]>

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Charles C Hardy <[e-mail]>
Subject: SUCCESS SB 147 passes Senate on to house
Date: 06 Mar 2002 11:15:36 -0700

Success!!  The phone calls worked.  SB 147, Restriction on Funding of
State Agency, just passed it's third reading in the Senate and is on to
house.

This is the last day of the session.  Please call the House at once and
leave a message for your representative asking them to support SB 147,
Restriction on Funding of State Agency.

Messages can be left at the House switchboard at 538-1029 for up to 5
Representatives.  Please call and leave messages for your own Rep and
also a few others, including house leadership.

Charles Hardy

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Charles C Hardy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fw: [UTGOA] It's over!  Quick report - CORRECTED
Date: 07 Mar 2002 10:43:37 -0700


----- Forwarded Message -----



We inadvertently left a very important and successful bill off the
previous alert.  This is the corrected version.

Thanks to YOUR efforts, we had a very successful legislative session.  We
also set the stage for being even more successful in the future.  THANK
YOU!

A full report will follow in a day or two, but here's the bottom line:

HB 78 Gun Show Background Check (Scott Daniels) - FAILED

HB 78 would have required a background check and registration of all gun
transactions at gun shows, fairs, and even a few friends selling guns
from someone's home.


HB 82 Storage of Concealed Firearms on Facilities With Secure Areas (John
E. Swallow) - PASSED

HB 82 requires courts to provide storage lockers for all legally carried
firearms, including both open and concealed carry.


HB 183 Firearm Criminal Background Check Amendments (J. Morgan Philpot) -
FAILED

HB 183 would have eliminated the $7.50 background check fee for gun
purchases.


HB 211 Repeal of Weapons Law (Scott Daniels) - FAILED

HB 211 would have repealed Utah's pre-emption law and allowed city,
county, university and other local government entities to ban guns.


HB 219 Firearm Fee Amendments (J. Morgan Philpot) - DIED WITHOUT A VOTE

HB 219 would have eliminated fees for concealed carry permits


HB 287 Constitutional Rights of State Employees (Mike Thompson) - PASSED

HB 287 says that state employees may not be forced to surrender
Constitutional rights in return for a state paycheck, and that foster
parents also may not be required to surrender their rights.


HB 336 Use of Force, Including Deadly Force, in Defense of Property (Mike
Thompson) - PASSED

HB 336 provides protection from civil suits for persons who use lethal
force to stop a violent attack while on their own property.


SB 121 Concealed Firearm Permit Amendments (Scott K. Jenkins) - FAILED

SB 121 would have removed the state mandate for training classes for
concealed carry permits.


SB 147 Restriction of Funding on State Entity Whose Policy, Rule, Or
Action Is Contrary to Law (Michael G. Waddoups) - FAILED (but by only 3
votes!)

SB 147 would have provided a mechanism for the legislature to cut the
funding of a state entity that violated Utah law.  This would have
brought rogue agencies back into line and saved a lot of money spent by
state agencies suing each other.

SB 164 Secure Facilities Amendments (David L. Gladwell) - PASSED

SB 164 enables a university to set up a secure area hearing room,
provided it is done properly with metal detectors, storage lockers,
posted signs, written notice, etc.  The hearing room can be secured only
while being used for hearings.  Just as important, the universities may
NOT ban guns anywhere on campus other than the secure area hearing room.


Out of ten bills, we had SIX victories and one very near victory on a
bill no one expected to get as far as it did.  We also got several strong
pro-gun bills through committees, which means that even though they
didn't pass this year, we're much more likely to get them passed next
year - especially if the funding situation improves.  This is an
excellent record - especially in a short session where funding was a
major problem.

Utah Gun Owners Alliance is successful only because of YOU.  Your calls,
letters, faxes, and emails are what enable us to protect and restore gun
rights.  THANK YOU!

Please take a few moments to thank the legislators who were willing to
sponsor pro-gun bills, and any other legislators you found to be
particularly cooperative.

We will be sending out a report with more details sometime in the next
few days.  We will also be publishing our legislative report card as soon
as possible.

In the meantime, if you'd like more details, and voting records, please
visit the Utah legislative web site at http://www.le.state.ut.us

Thanks again!


Copyright 2002, Utah Gun Owners Alliance, Inc. and Sarah Thompson
PO Box 1185
Sandy, UT 84091
801-566-1625
http://www.utgoa.org
[e-mail]

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Scott Bergeson <[e-mail]>
Subject: RLC News & Views - March 11, 2002
Date: 11 Mar 2002 11:39:31 -0700

Excerpt

Yeah, That About It Sums It Up

"The ATF (Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms) doesn't go after
guys who stick up 7-Elevens. It's a tax collection agency. It's main
job is to infringe and restrict the right of otherwise law-abiding
Americans to keep and bear arms."

- Columnist Vin Suprynowicz

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From: Charles C Hardy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Hardy Files for LD 41
Date: 12 Mar 2002 12:15:16 -0700

Hello all,

This morning, in the SLCo Clerk's office, I officially filed as a
Republican candidate for the NEW Utah House District #41.

District 41 is one of the new districts created during last year's
decannual redistricting.  It comprises parts of Sandy, Draper, Riverton,
and Bluffdale.  I believe it should lean reasonably strongly towards
Republican in the General Election.  Perhaps most importantly, no
incumbent lives within the district; it is an open seat.

I believe I can win this seat and provide a strong pro-gun, pro-reform,
limited-government, voice and vote in the Utah House.  But I need YOUR
help.

I expect the lion's share of the battle for this seat to take place in
the SLCo GOP Convention.  I hope to wrap up enough delegates' votes to
win the nomination in convention.  However, I am also preparing for a
full primary campaign if needed.  And, of course, I am also starting on
plans for the general election.

I'd like you to consider how much time, money, energy, and frustration
you've spent the last 2 or 4 or 6 years in battling for your rights.
Also, how much did you spend on your last trip to the range, or your last
hunting trip?  How much are you willing to invest NOW to help elect a
candidate who won't need to be coddled, cajoled, pressured, or prodded
into doing the right thing and who will ACTIVELY work to HELP you hold
other Representatives accountable?

I am committed to not only defending our gun rights, but to actually
FURTHERING them.  Among other needed advances, I WILL sponsor
"right-to-carry" (aka Vermont Carry) legislation EVERY year I'm in office
until it passes and becomes law.

I am committed to REAL educational reform.  Teachers need to be treated
like professionals.  Parents need to have real choice.  Students deserve
excellence to prepare them for life.  And taxpayers simply cannot be
asked to foot higher and higher bills.  I will vigorously support
Universal Tuition Tax Credits.  I am also fully prepared and willing to
sponsor UTTC legislation AND to push it.  The only reason I would not
personally sponsor UTTC is IF the grassroots who have become the experts
in this area determine that someone else should sponsor it instead.

I will also support administrative accountability measures including
legislation like SB 147 to allow the legislature to readily use their
proper, Constitutional power of the purse-strings to encourage agencies
and departments to fully comply with legislative intent and State law.

But I can't do any of those things unless YOU are willing to help me.  I
need people in my district to attend their caucus meetings Monday, March
25th, and get elected County Delegates.  I need volunteers from anywhere
to hand out literature at the convention.  I will need volunteers to walk
neighborhoods prior to the primary (if there is one) and the general
elections.  I will need volunteers to make phone calls on election days.
And I need financial contributions to pay for needed flyers, mailings,
signs, banners, etc.

It is a rare opportunity to not have to face an entrenched incumbent.
Please don't let this opportunity to get a solid, real conservative
elected.  A RINO from this district will not do our rights any more good
than a democrat.  The convention will determine whether the Republican
party selects a RINO or a real conservative.

If you have questions, or would like to volunteer to help, I can be
reached at this email address, [e-mail]. or via phone in the
evenings at [phone].

Campaign Contributions can be made payable to:

Committee to Elect Charles Hardy
9442 So. David St.
Sandy, Utah  84070

Please do not send cash via the postal service.  And please drop me an
email or give me a phone call when you send your check so I'll know what
is coming and I can budget for it.

Thank you.

Charles Hardy
Candidate, Utah House district 41.
Sandy, Draper, Bluffdale, Riverton.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Scott Bergeson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fw: S.A.S. Express your outrage to H&R Block
Date: 12 Mar 2002 17:38:26 -0700

We seem to be getting a spate of these lately;
Dell, Google, and now H&R Block.

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 5:34 pm

Dear Members and Supporters,

We would like to ask that you take a moment to express your displeasure
to H&R Block over their recent decision to cut off their affiliate
program with the NRA.  Although not affiliated at all with the NRA, we
use the same means as fundraising and benefits that they do - joining
into affiliate agreements with companies.

Something like this will trickle down to the companies that we have
agreements with, and is also a direct attack on the basic human right of
self-defense.

The contact page is:

http://www.hrblock.com/customer_support/submit_a_question.jsp

Or, please email or call:

Bob Schneider
[phone]
[e-mail]

Cyd Slayton
[phone]
[e-mail]

Linda McDougall
[phone]
[e-mail]

The press release from Gun Watch follows.

SASsily,

Juli Bednarzyk

***
For Immediate Release
March 12, 2002

Contacts: Julie Bernstein

Kristin Becker

[phone]

H&R Block Severs Ties with National Rifle Association

Washington, D.C.-In a stunning defeat for the gun lobby, H&R Block, the
nation's largest tax preparation firm, today severed a controversial
marketing agreement it had entered into with the National Rifle
Association (NRA). H&R Block's withdrawal from the program came as a
result of widespread protests spearheaded by the Alliance for Justice's
Gun Industry Watch, and supported by the Million Mom March united with
the Brady Campaign and the Mid-Atlantic Coalition to Prevent Gun
Violence.

"Let this send a loud message to other corporate partners of the NRA,"
said Alliance for Justice President Nan Aron. "If you support the NRA,
we will work to make sure that your employees, customers, and all of
your stakeholders know that you support an extremist gun lobby that is
out of step with mainstream America."

"The termination of this agreement is a tremendous victory for everyone
who was outraged that a reputable business like H&R Block would support
an extremist organization like the NRA," said Michael D. Barnes,
president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence united with the
Million Mom March. "Marketing your products to a specific group of
people is an accepted business practice, but H&R Block crossed the line
when it agreed to pay royalties to the NRA."

"Corporations doing business with the NRA should be very concerned by
the large efforts of hundreds of gun safety activists that came out in
defiance of H&R Block's agreement with the NRA," said Bryan Miller of
the Mid-Atlantic Coalition to Prevent Gun Violence.

H&R Block had entered into an agreement with a marketing company called
Memberdrive to market its products and services to NRA members. However,
the agreement also provided for "royalties" paid by H&R Block, through
Memberdrive, to the NRA. According an H&R Block advertisement that ran
in the March issue of America's First Freedom, the NRA's magazine, H&R
Block "will make a contribution to the NRA for every Member who becomes
a new customer." Memberdrive's Senior Vice President of Marketing is
Susan LaPierre, wife of NRA CEO Wayne LaPierre.

Gun Industry Watch, a student network, first exposed the agreement in
late February, staging a protest outside of an H&R Block outlet in
Washington, DC, and planning dozens more. Over the past two weeks,
thousands of activists including those from the Million Mom March and
the Brady Campaign joined with Gun Industry Watch and called, faxed and
e-mailed H&R Block to express their objections to this agreement and to
educate the company on the extremist positions that the NRA has taken in
the past. With Gun Industry Watch recruiting students, Million Mom March
recruiting its members and support from the Mid-Atlantic Coalition to
Prevent Gun Violence, protests of H&R Block offices in more than 50
cities had been planned for mid-March. These protests have now been
called off.

"This victory shows the power of the gun control movement's grassroots,"
said Aron. "When you engage students and moms together, it's a potent
combination."

"H&R Block now understands that, by areeing to this royalty scheme, it
was furthering the reckless political agenda of the NRA's leadership,"
said Mr. Barnes. "Congratulations to Gun Industry Watch and to all of
our Million Mom March activists and members for making their voices
heard."

###

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Scott Bergeson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Letter to H&R Block
Date: 13 Mar 2002 00:55:58 -0700



Gentlemen,

If you will check your files, you will find that I have had a long and
fruitful association with H&R Block. I believe you folks have done my taxes
for the better part of 15 years, maybe longer. But I have just learned of a
decision on your part which, if not corrected immediately, will end that
association.

I am speaking of your ill-informed decision to back out of a member
affiliate arrangement with the NRA. The NRA has a long and honorable
history of teaching firearms safety and lobbying to protect a right so
important that the founders of this nation found it necessary to forbid
government from infringing it. Criminological, sociological, and economic
studies over the past 30 years have demonstrated conclusively how right
they were. These results demonstrate that the two million or more instances
of responsible citizens successfully defending themselves against violent
criminals each year with firearms far outweigh the criminal uses. Estimates
of the net economic benefit to society of private firearms ownership run
into the tens of billions of dollars annually.

Persuasive as these utilitarian arguments may be, they pale in significance
beside the philosophical ones propounded by the framers of the
Constitution. They believed quite firmly that the ultimate authority in
society must be the citizens, and that one of the most important guarantees
of this bedrock American principle of freedom was an unfettered right to
keep and bear arms. You, sirs, have placed yourself squarely on the side of
people advocating the direct violation of civil rights protected under the
United States Constitution, and all but a bare handful of the state
constitutions. I cannot in clear conscience continue to do business with
any corporation who would make such a choice. So until I hear that H&R
Block has rescinded this decision and apologized to the membership of the
NRA, I will take my business elsewhere. Thank you for your kind attention
to this matter.

Jeffrey L Jordan
[Address redacted]

---
Hunter's Seventy Seventh Rule: The measure of the menace of a
man is not what hardware he carries, but what ideas he believes.

Ceterum censeo fiscum delendum esse
---
>  LIBERTY ROUND TABLE DISCUSSIONS LIST (http://www.vader.com/lrtdiscuss)
>
> TO POST TO THE LIST:       send mail to [e-mail]
> TO UN/SUBSCRIBE TO LIST:    send blank mail with command as subject

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Chad Leigh -- Pengar Enterprises Inc. <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Letter to H&R Block
Date: 13 Mar 2002 03:08:00 -0500

Hi All!

Just a reminder.  People who write to H&R Block should make sure they
also send a paper letter (or 3)  through the US Mails to the people at
H&R Block as well as generically to their corporate board in addition to
email.  Much better impact.  Also, send a letter to the local office
branch manager for your local H&R office or store.  They have the stores
all over.

Hopefully some people in some states will also get groups together to
picket their offices.

regards
Chad

On Wednesday, March 13, 2002, at 02:55 , Scott Bergeson wrote:

> Subject: Letter to H&R Block
> Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 00:29:05 -0500
> From: [e-mail]
> To: [e-mail]
>
> To: [e-mail], [e-mail],[e-mail]
> Subject: H&R Block wrong to reject NRA
>
> Gentlemen,
>
> If you will check your files, you will find that I have had a long and
> fruitful association with H&R Block. I believe you folks have done my
> taxes
> for the better part of 15 years, maybe longer. But I have just learned
> of a
> decision on your part which, if not corrected immediately, will end that
> association.
>
> I am speaking of your ill-informed decision to back out of a member
> affiliate arrangement with the NRA. The NRA has a long and honorable
> history of teaching firearms safety and lobbying to protect a right so
> important that the founders of this nation found it necessary to forbid
> government from infringing it. Criminological, sociological, and
> economic
> studies over the past 30 years have demonstrated conclusively how right
> they were. These results demonstrate that the two million or more
> instances
> of responsible citizens successfully defending themselves against
> violent
> criminals each year with firearms far outweigh the criminal uses.
> Estimates
> of the net economic benefit to society of private firearms ownership run
> into the tens of billions of dollars annually.
>
> Persuasive as these utilitarian arguments may be, they pale in
> significance
> beside the philosophical ones propounded by the framers of the
> Constitution. They believed quite firmly that the ultimate authority in
> society must be the citizens, and that one of the most important
> guarantees
> of this bedrock American principle of freedom was an unfettered right to
> keep and bear arms. You, sirs, have placed yourself squarely on the
> side of
> people advocating the direct violation of civil rights protected under
> the
> United States Constitution, and all but a bare handful of the state
> constitutions. I cannot in clear conscience continue to do business with
> any corporation who would make such a choice. So until I hear that H&R
> Block has rescinded this decision and apologized to the membership of
> the
> NRA, I will take my business elsewhere. Thank you for your kind
> attention
> to this matter.
>
> Jeffrey L Jordan
> [Address redacted]
>
> ---
> Hunter's Seventy Seventh Rule: The measure of the menace of a
> man is not what hardware he carries, but what ideas he believes.
>
> Ceterum censeo fiscum delendum esse
> ---
>>  LIBERTY ROUND TABLE DISCUSSIONS LIST (http://www.vader.com/lrtdiscuss)
>>
>> TO POST TO THE LIST:       send mail to [e-mail]
>> TO UN/SUBSCRIBE TO LIST:    send blank mail with command as subject
>
> -
>
>


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Scott Bergeson <[e-mail]>
Subject: response from H&R Block
Date: 13 Mar 2002 14:52:15 -0700

This doesn't make it clear whether they have cancelled
all affiliate marketing whatsoever.


*********** BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE  ***********

On 3/13/02 at 11:23 AM Member Drive <[e-mail]> wrote:

Thank you for sharing your views with us.  We have taken the matter
very seriously.

H&R Block offers its products and services equally to all taxpayers.  The
company does not take a stand on social issues outside the realm of tax and
financial services.

This tax season H&R Block entered an agreement with a marketing company to
expand our ability to market our tax products and services.  A number of
organizations interpreted this agreement in a way that had H&R Block taking
a particular side of a social issue - something our company does not do.
Therefore, we are ending the agreement to remove ourselves from a debate we
don't belong in and to prevent any outside group from using H&R Block to
promote their agenda.

H&R Block's sole focus remains on helping all Americans with their tax and
financial needs.

Thank you for your e-mail.

*********** END FORWARDED MESSAGE  ***********c

---
Hunter's Seventy Seventh Rule: The measure of the menace
                           of a man is not what hardware he carries,
                           but what ideas he believes.


        Ceterum censeo fiscum delendum esse
---
>  LIBERTY ROUND TABLE DISCUSSIONS LIST (http://www.vader.com/lrtdiscuss)
>
> TO POST TO THE LIST:       send mail to [e-mail]
> TO UN/SUBSCRIBE TO LIST:    send blank mail with command as subject

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Charles C Hardy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Efforts nationwide to bolster gun rights
Date: 13 Mar 2002 15:32:37 -0700

I don't necessarily think the NRA is as much to credit for this as are
various grassroots local organizations.  I know from my time in Arizona
that there are a couple of very active grassroots group there that have
long pushed for Vermont Carry.  Note how the current push to reduce the
penalties for unlicensed CCW are a move in that direction.

FWIW, I understand that New Mexico also has very low penalties for
technical (IE
non-violent) violations of CCW laws, but don't rely on that hearsay
before doing anything foolish.  We might also want to look at another law
in New Mexico.  Like here, no permit is needed to CCW on your own
property in New Mexico.  Unlike here, your personal automobile is
considered personal property akin to a home or apartment for purposes of
CCW without the need of a permit.  This actually makes a lot of sense
when one considers the very gray areas of motor homes or campers which
are, at once, both a motor vehicle and a very real home or abode for many
people.

In addition to showing us that we are not alone in our efforts and giving
some modest ideas of legislation we might pursue, the most important
thing this article does is put us on notice that the group formerlly and
most accurtely known as HCI (Handgun Control Inc) is going to put
increased financial and personel resources into our State.  If you fail
to counter them, we will lose more rights.  It seems to be almost a law
of nature that it is very difficult to maintain steady state on rights.
You are either gaining ground, or losing it in most cases.

Charles

From today's DesNews.

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,375015750,00.html?


Wednesday, March 13, 2002

Move under way to ease gun laws
By David A. Lieb
Associated Press writer
      JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. ù Around the country, gun-rights groups are
waging what some portray as a deliberately gradual, one-step-at-a-time
effort to ease state laws governing the carrying of a concealed weapon.
      Organizations such as the National Rife Association and Gun Owners
of America say their efforts ù under way in more than half the states ù
are no greater this year than before. But they say the Sept. 11 attacks
may have provided some momentum.
      "Since September 11th, people feel the need to protect themselves
and their loved ones," said Randy Kozuch, the NRA's chief state and local
lobbyist. "Nobody knows what future attacks will happen."
      Alarmed by the effort, the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence,
which traditionally has focused on Congress, has expanded its staff for
state legislatures and teamed up with the Million Mom March to fight
attempts to loosen concealed gun laws.
      "We are seeing a very large effort by the NRA to weaken concealed
weapons laws across the country," said Luis Tolley, the Los Angeles-based
state legislative director for the Brady Campaign. "They want to let
anybody carry any gun they want, anywhere they want, any time they want."
      In the 1980s, at least 40 states prohibited concealed weapons,
according to the NRA. The movement to relax concealed gun laws began in
1987 in Florida and picked up steam in the mid-1990s.
      Now just six states ù all in the Midwest ù prohibit concealed
weapons. A dozen others allow them but sharply restrict the permits.
      Legislative efforts are under way to reverse the prohibitions or at
least allow concealed guns in some places, such as vehicles. In states
that already allow concealed guns, supporters are trying to relax the
permit process or the allow guns to be taken more places.
      Rick Salyer, a civilian Army technician involved in organizations
such as the NRA and the Western Missouri Shooters Alliance, said the
strategy is to move one step at a time.
      "If it can be proven it's safe at one step, then later on you can
say, 'If this worked, why don't we give them a little more freedom,"' he
said.
      In Arizona, a bill endorsed by a House committee would make it a
mere petty offense, punishable by a fine of up to $50, to carry a
concealed gun without a permit. Currently, the offense carries a $2,500
fine and six months in jail.
      Legislation in the South Carolina Senate would relax residency
requirements for concealed gun permits and allow hidden weapons in state
parks or churches.
      In Minnesota, legislation would let most adults get concealed gun
permits after background checks and training. Current law requires people
to prove a job or safety need and gives discretion to local law officers
in granting permits.
      All told, lawmakers in 28 states have proposed concealed gun bills
this year, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures.
      After years of unsuccessful attempts to adopt a law allowing people
to carry a concealed weapon, Missouri legislators put the issue on the
ballot in 1999. The NRA spent $3.8 million, but the proposal failed
because of lopsided "no" votes in St. Louis and Kansas City.
      Now supporters are back before the Legislature ù even though
Democratic Gov. Bob Holden has threatened to veto any bill resembling the
1999 initiative.
      As a first step, some Missouri House members have devised a bill
they hope will be hard to veto: It allows concealed guns in vehicles
while also requiring more stringent prosecution of firearms crimes.
      Salyer summed up the approach this way: "The main thing is to get
your foot in the door." Then eventually, "I hope that we do get the right
to concealed carry."

________________________________________________________________
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Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Scott Bergeson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fw: Congratulations on escaping the frying pan...
Date: 14 Mar 2002 08:07:37 -0700

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 12:02 AM
Cc: Bob Schneider; Cyd Slayton

I understand you've broken your agreement with the NRA that was advertised
in the March issue of their magazine.

Before you try to snow me with any of your boilerplate verbiage about how
all you're really trying to do is avoid taking an embarrassing corporate
position either "for" or "against" the Bill of Rights, just stuff it.á I've
seen your sweat-sprinkled letter to the Brady Bunch begging them to cancel
their planned "activities on March 16," and I recognize a craven surrender
when I see one.

Now, here's the other shoe.á If you think you've avoided pain by caving in
to a couple hundred loudmouth political bullies with no depth in actual
public support -- well then, you're about to learn what pain can really be.

The National Rifle Association currently has over four million members.
Does this sound like a lot to you?á It's the third largest dues-paying
adult membership organization in the United States. And, according to the
magazine Campaigns & Elections, over six times that many American
gun-owners identify with the principles of and consider themselves
"members" of the NRA, even though they may not keep their dues up to date.

The Brady Bunch published a gloating statement that "H&R Block now
understands that, by agreeing to this royalty scheme, it was furthering the
reckless political agenda of the NRA's leadership," and calling the
violation of your agreement with the NRA "a tremendous victory over the gun
lobby."á And by caving into their pressure (and in the process, showing the
public how little your word is worth), you have endorsed those claims.á And
that's a "position," whether you like it or not.

You just made the mistake of insulting a very large and very politically
active group of Americans.á When gun owners get upset at you, they stay
upset.á When gun owners stage a boycott, you stay boycotted.

Think it's an empty threat?á Ask Citibank or Dell Computer -- companies
that acknowledged that lesson and corrected their offenses.á Ask Smith &
Wesson or K-Mart -- companies that never did, and paid the price.

Hell, ask Al Gore -- if you can find him these days.

I ask you to understand that none of those boycotts were called by the NRA,
either officially or unofficially.á They were the product of grass-roots
gun-owner cooperation, organized via the Internet -- through the very same
newsgroups and mailing lists being copied on this message.

Ms. McDougall, as of this week, H&R Block has just joined that select group
of corporate offenders.á Don't expect to see many gun owners inside your
offices from now on.

Now, outside is another story entirely.á We won't be there on March 16th.
But we WILL be there.á And not at just 50 offices, either.

Count on it.
--
[e-mail]

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Scott Bergeson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Google gun ban hits WorldNetDaily!
Date: 14 Mar 2002 08:16:37 -0700

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=26819

If the folks at Google thought it was rough before today. . .

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Scott Bergeson <[e-mail]>
Subject: H&R letter from Canada
Date: 15 Mar 2002 08:59:09 -0700

Don't miss today's episode of "As H&R Block Burns", with guest star
Doctor Mike.

http://www.sierratimes.com/02/03/15/nramailbag.htm

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Scott Bergeson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Philadelphia Daily News | 03/14/2002 | New on campus: Guns 101
Date: 19 Mar 2002 17:41:52 -0700

http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/2002/03/14/news/opinion/2856149.htm

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Scott Bergeson <[e-mail]>
Subject: FW: No Guns In The Cockpits
Date: 22 Mar 2002 10:27:00 -0700

Our federal government gets awfully quirky at times. Take the issue of
arming pilots with pistols so they will have a chance if terrorists
breach the door and get into the cockpit.

The federal government opposes the idea. Too dangerous, it says.

On the other hand, the same federal government proposes to put armed air
marshals in with the passengers, as well as have fighter jets on standby.
The job, of course, of the air marshals is to shoot the hijackers, and if
they fail, the job of the fighter jets is to shoot down the passenger plane
if it veers from its flight plan. Not only that, but the government has
stationed armed National Guardsmen in the airports. Personally, I don't
fancy the idea of dodging ricochets if a poorly trained National Guard
soldier decides to have a shootout with a terrorist.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see that a pilot shooting a
terrorist in a cockpit is any more dangerous than air marshals having a
gunfight out amongst the passengers. And certainly a gun in the cockpit
is less dangerous than being blown out of the sky by an F-16.

Furthermore, it seems absurd to trust pilots with an aircraft full of
passengers, but not trust them to have a pistol. Most commercial pilots
are ex-military and have had ample training with firearms. And all
commercial pilots are people who know how to stay calm in a stressful
situation. A hefty majority of the pilots want to carry personal firearms.
They should be allowed to do so.

Just as it is now a given that passengers and crew will resist the
hijackers, you can be sure that it is now a given among terrorists that
mere box cutters will not be sufficient to take over an aircraft. The
flaw in airport security is that the screening stations are well away
from the boarding areas. Between those screening areas and the boarding
areas are long corridors with offices, restrooms, shops and snack bars.
It does not require much imagination to persuade one of the hundreds of
people in those areas to plant a firearm for a terrorist who can retrieve
it after he's been screened.

And if the government is really serious about Americans being on
continuing alert and watching out for terrorists, then it should
encourage firearm ownership and pass a national right-to-carry law.
A very scholarly work proves that privately owned firearms prevent
more crimes than there are crimes committed with firearms. In Israel,
private citizens wielding their own firearms have often cut terrorist
attacks short.

Encouraging the public to go about their daily lives while armed
would also greatly cut down on the crime rate, not to mention improving
people's manners. Two of the most famous outlaw gangs, the James Gang
and the Daltons, were shot to pieces not by lawmen or Pinkerton
detectives, but by the citizens of the towns they tried to rob.

If you want to know how little that elitists think of us common folks,
just watch the reaction to this suggestion. The whole business of gun
control is based on the fear of the common people by the elite. Maybe
the elite have a guilty conscience and want to keep the common folks
unarmed in case the folks figure out how they've been taken advantage
of.

When the Florida Legislature was debating a right-to-carry law, I had
to listen to really ridiculous predictions from my elitist comrades in
the news racket. "Oh, if people can carry guns, there will be shootouts
in the supermarkets and at every traffic signal." It was all rubbish.
The law passed. A couple of hundred thousand people have permits, and
the violent-crime rate has gone down, not increased.

I asked one of my elitist friends, "Do you really think your fellow
citizens are stupid and mad?" The answer was "Yes." Nothing is so
conducive to making a fool of oneself than a small brain and a big ego.

I say, arm the American public and then watch our country become safe
and peaceful once again.

by Charley Reese
http://reese.king-online.com/Reese_20020318/index.php

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Scott Bergeson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Good ol' Sarah Brady
Date: 22 Mar 2002 18:24:38 -0700

Sarah Brady straw purchases a rifle:

http://www.miami.com/mld/miami/news/politics/2909641.htm

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Scott Bergeson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Tyranny: the threshold has already been crossed
Date: 26 Mar 2002 10:34:07 -0700

Tyranny: the threshold has already been crossed
----------
KeepAndBearArms.Com
by Jerry Jones
   "The number of 'mistakes' made by government officials ... that
   would put you or I away for a long time, are not even punished
   if a government official commits them. ... are too numerous to
   list." (03/25/02)
http://www.free-market.net/rd/226072053.html

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Scott Bergeson <[e-mail]>
Subject: FW: Paypal newly on list of Anti second amendment companies
Date: 27 Mar 2002 10:45:54 -0700

I haven't seen specifics of what got them added.

-----
At Devvy Kidd's site:

http://www.devvy.com/paypal_20020322.html

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Scott Bergeson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Letter in support of Augustus Alzona
Date: 27 Mar 2002 11:13:41 -0700

Letter in support of Augustus Alzona
----------
KeepAndBearArms.Com
by Aaron Zelman
   Republican officials seek to remove Augustus Alzona from the
   local party's Central Committee, for distributing a flyer with
   the faces of three Democrat politicians digitally imposed onto
   photographs of Nazi soldiers, implying a proposed gun
   registration and licensing scheme is Hitlerian. (03/23/02)
http://www.free-market.net/rd/71952323.html

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Scott Bergeson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Let freedom ring
Date: 28 Mar 2002 13:41:56 -0700

Gun Owners of America embraces Brady's son
Gets honorary membership after Sarah admits 'straw' rifle purchase

Posted: March 28, 2002  1:00 a.m. Eastern

⌐ 2002 WorldNetDaily.com

The Gun Owners of America has awarded an honorary membership to the
son of gun-control activist Sarah Brady.

In her recent autobiography, "A Good Fight," Brady admitted to
purchasing a .30-06 caliber rifle for her son Scott, which allowed
him to avoid the required criminal background check. Second Amendment
activists believe a Delaware law might have been violated if she did
not submit information on the person for whom she bought the gun.

"Now that Scott Brady is the proud owner of a high-powered 'sniper'
rifle, he will most certainly need a fuller understanding of the
Second Amendment than he ever received at home," Erich Pratt, the
Gun Owners of America's communications director said in a statement.

In 1991, Sarah Brady became chair for Handgun Control Inc., a
Washington-based lobby group pressing for tougher gun-control
laws. Her husband James Brady was seriously wounded in the 1981
assassination attempt on Ronald Reagan while serving as the
president's press secretary.

Last year Handgun Control was renamed the Brady Campaign to Prevent
Gun Violence in honor of the Bradys.

"We congratulate Scott for keeping his name 'off paper,'" Pratt
said. "Because the gun was bought under his mother's name, he
completely avoided the NICS (National Instant Criminal Background
Check System). This means authorities will never know he has the
sniper rifle, a benefit which reduces the possibility that his gun
could ever be confiscated by authorities."

In 1993, Congress passed the "Brady Bill" championed by Sarah Brady,
which requires a five-day waiting period and background checks on
handgun purchases.

Pratt says the government's system of keeping track of gun owners
has been used to confiscate firearms.

"New York City registered long guns in the mid-1960s after promising
those registration lists would never be used to confiscate the guns,"
Pratt said. "But in 1991, Handgun Control, Inc., supported the city
when it banned many of the very guns which were previously
registered. Some homes even received visits from police, who
confiscated the banned firearms from the clutches of non-compliant
gun owners."

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From: Chad Leigh -- Pengar Enterprises Inc. <[e-mail]>
Subject: handloading forums sponsored by your list dad
Date: 28 Mar 2002 21:46:00 -0500

Hi All

Just a plug for the new forums I put up for handloading/reloading .  The
pretty homepage and graphiccal headers are still under construction, but
the forums themselves are up, and they just went online today for live
use (so go join and start posting so that there is some content :-)

www.handloaders.com  (the home page is not much to write home about,
yet, but click on the "forums" link and you're there)

If the above link gets you to the eguns.com webpage instead, click on
the forums link there to get to the home page as shown above, by IP
number.  It takes a day or two for the DNS caches around the world to
notice the changeover for handloaders.com to its new address.

Thanks
Chad

utah-firearms sponsor


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