ftp.xmission.com/2014.06.ftp.xmission.com.tar/ftp.xmission.com/pub/lists/utah-firearms/archive/utah-firearms.200103

Internet Message Format | 2001-03-28 | 58KB

From: charles hardy <[e-mail]>
Subject: On a more personal note
Date: 02 Mar 2001 14:45:12 -0700

I'm pleased, relieved, and also a bit overwhelmed to announce that at
about 4:20 this Friday morning, my wife Jennifer gave birth to our first
child, a happy baby girl.  Proving that the best laid plans of doctors
and mothers-to-be are no match for mother nature, Jennifer's water broke
and she started labor just four days prior to a scheduled inducement.
Following 10 hours of mostly back labor, Abigail Mae Hardy looks to be
full term, weighed in at 7 lbs, 15 ozs. and is 20 inches long.  Mother
and baby are tired, but doing fine.  Dad is tired and just starting to
come to some realization that now the really hard part begins.  :)


----------------
Charles Hardy
<[e-mail]>

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: On a more personal note
Date: 02 Mar 2001 14:50:19 -0700

Congrats to you, your wife , and the new little one!  The hard part
begins, but so does one of the finest experiences of your lives.

Rob Sawyer





charles hardy <[e-mail]>
Sent by: [e-mail]
03/02/2001 02:45 PM
Please respond to utah-firearms


        To:     [e-mail]
        cc:
        Subject:        On a more personal note


I'm pleased, relieved, and also a bit overwhelmed to announce that at
about 4:20 this Friday morning, my wife Jennifer gave birth to our first
child, a happy baby girl.  Proving that the best laid plans of doctors
and mothers-to-be are no match for mother nature, Jennifer's water broke
and she started labor just four days prior to a scheduled inducement.
Following 10 hours of mostly back labor, Abigail Mae Hardy looks to be
full term, weighed in at 7 lbs, 15 ozs. and is 20 inches long.  Mother
and baby are tired, but doing fine.  Dad is tired and just starting to
come to some realization that now the really hard part begins.  :)


----------------
Charles Hardy
<[e-mail]>

-





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From: "David Sagers" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: On a more personal note
Date: 04 Mar 2001 13:24:26 -0700

Congradulations!!

She will forever change your life, but its a good change, and little kids =
are the greatest.

David Sagers

<<< charles hardy <[e-mail]>  3/ 2  2:54p >>>
I'm pleased, relieved, and also a bit overwhelmed to announce that at
about 4:20 this Friday morning, my wife Jennifer gave birth to our first
child, a happy baby girl.  Proving that the best laid plans of doctors
and mothers-to-be are no match for mother nature, Jennifer's water broke
and she started labor just four days prior to a scheduled inducement.=20
Following 10 hours of mostly back labor, Abigail Mae Hardy looks to be
full term, weighed in at 7 lbs, 15 ozs. and is 20 inches long.  Mother
and baby are tired, but doing fine.  Dad is tired and just starting to
come to some realization that now the really hard part begins.  :)


----------------
Charles Hardy
<[e-mail]>

-



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From: charles hardy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fw: [UTGOA] Concealed carry recognition
Date: 05 Mar 2001 23:53:14 -0700

The latest from UTGOA.

----------------
Charles Hardy
<[e-mail]>

--------- Forwarded message ----------

The following article is from Monday's Salt Lake Tribune.  Utah Gun
Owners
Alliance's response follows:

http://www.sltrib.com/03052001/utah/76840.htm
MEASURE MISFIRES: Gun-Permits Bill is Shot Full of Holes
Monday, March 5, 2001

BY GREG BURTON
THE SALT LAKE TRIBUNE

     Members of Utah's all-powerful gun lobby -- which took aim this year

at the state's concealed-carry law -- may have fallen victim to
unintended
consequences.
     House Bill 376, sponsored by freshman Republican Rep. Glenn
Donnelson
of North Ogden, is not what it appears to be, says Nannette Rolfe, chief
of
the bureau that administers concealed weapon permitting in Utah.
     Sold by Donnelson and his well-armed friends as an act of
reciprocity
among states, HB376 actually does nothing for Utah permit holders. Zero.
     If signed by Gov. Mike Leavitt, who is studying the bill, HB376
would
allow permit holders from every state that issues them to move freely in
Utah for 60 days with their concealed weapons.
     However, Donnelson's bill severely limits what is now an unlimited
right bestowed on residents from only 16 states. Oops.
     The confusion can be traced to the win-at-all-cost stand of the gun
lobby, which badgered lawmakers to pass the bill. As conceived, the bill
abolished virtually all barriers to permit holders from out of state who
want to pack their guns in Utah.
     Hoping to preserve some sort of standard, lawmakers drafted three
substitute bills before they passed the final version, which includes the

60-day provision.
     In its current form, HB376 would allow all sorts of folks to conceal

their guns while in Utah, including Carey McWilliams, a North Dakota man
with 10 guns who is blind. McWilliams secured a permit in his state when
regulators helped him "get his bearings" before a shooting test.
     Under existing state law, North Dakota permit holders are prohibited

from carrying in Utah because officials in this state say North Dakota's
permitting process is lax. Why will the North Dakota guy be able to carry

after the law is passed?
     Still, Donnelson, an amiable facilities manager for Deseret
Industries, was giddy when his bill finally passed.
     "This is how the process works," he said.
     Or doesn't.
     "We have concerns," Rolfe says.
     For one thing, there is really no way to tell when an out-of-state
permit holder enters Utah, the triggering event for the 60-day countdown.
     It is also impossible to check whether a permit is valid after
working
hours. There is no national database for concealed-carry permits.
     "The officer in the alleyway at midnight isn't going to know whether

the permit is legal or not," Rolfe says.
     Concealed-carry holders from these states currently have unlimited
access to pack on Utah streets: Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Kentucky,
Florida, Connecticut, Louisiana, Massachusetts, Nevada, North Carolina,
Oklahoma, Oregon, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas and Wyoming.
     Those agreements, though, can change overnight, Rolfe says. The
state
Bureau of Criminal Identification faithfully monitors the laws in each
state to ensure that permit holders coming to Utah have met or exceeded
this state's safety requirements, which include fingerprinting and
criminal
history checks. (What does this have to do with unexpected consequences
of
the bill?)
     There is another quirk. Donnelson's bill really has nothing to do
with
two-way recognition or reciprocity. Thirteen states currently endorse gun

permits from Utah. The 37 states that do not are in no way expected to
suddenly change with HB376.
     The states that recognize Utah permits are: Alaska, Arizona,
Arkansas,
Idaho, Indiana, Kentucky, Michigan, Montana, Nevada, Oklahoma, South
Carolina, Texas and Wyoming.
     If HB376 becomes law, it will in some ways limit rather than expand
gun rights, Rolfe says.



UTAH GUN OWNERS ALLIANCE'S RESPONSE:

To the Editor, Salt Lake Tribune:

Thank you for your article on Rep. Donnelson's HB 376 - Concealed Carry
Recognition.  While Utah Gun Owners Alliance (UTGOA) supported the
initial
bill (1st and 3rd substitutes before amendments), we opposed Sen.
Spencer's
amendment to limit recognition to 60 days.  The original bill said that
Utah would honor permits issued by any state or county (not country, as
you've been publishing).   Unfortunately, UTGOA was the only gun rights
organization to oppose Spencer's amendment.

Our concerns are similar to those expressed by Ms. Rolfe.

The bill, as written, is unenforceable unless Utah starts issuing
passports
and sets up border checkpoints to monitor how many consecutive days
people
spend in the state.  Unenforceable laws are unfair to both citizens and
the
law enforcement officers who are charged with enforcing them.

Utah currently honors permits from 16 states for an indefinite period of
time.  We will no longer do so if this bill becomes law.  Utah residents
who currently carry concealed firearms legally based on possession of one

of these permits will become "overnight criminals", even though they've
done nothing wrong and may not even know about the new law.

There is also a potential problem because the states that currently honor

Utah permits may change their minds, and decide not to honor our permits
because of the 60 day rule.  Of course it's also possible that states
that
do not currently honor Utah permits will do so, once we start recognizing

theirs.  At this point, it's all conjecture.

BCI currently has up to 60 days to issue a permit from the time it
receives
a completed application.  It can therefore take longer than 60 days to
get
a permit, since the time needed for a class, fingerprints, letters of
reference, photos, etc. is not included in the 60 days.  As a result, a
new
resident may be left defenseless between the time his non-Utah permit
becomes invalid and the time he receives a Utah permit, even though he is

eligible under both states' criteria.

UTGOA does not, however, share your deep distrust of other states'
permitting procedures.  Concealed carry permittees nationwide have been
shown to be far more law-abiding than the average citizen, and have a
stellar reputation for responsible behavior.  Utah honors marriages,
divorces, drivers licenses, and high school diplomas from states whose
requirements differ significantly from ours. Carry permits should be no
different.

Utah Gun Owners Alliance hopes that our concerns, and those of BCI, can
be
resolved quickly, and that HB 376 will facilitate concealed carry
recognition as was originally intended.

We commend Rep. Donnelson for sponsoring this important and necessary
legislation, but are saddened that he chose to accept Sen. Spencer's
unnecessary and confusing amendment.

Sarah Thompson, M.D.
Executive Director, Utah Gun Owners Alliance
PO Box 1185
Sandy, UT 84091


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From: Scott Bergeson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Reciprocity and NRA
Date: 06 Mar 2001 08:03:54 -0700

In his message "Thanks for the great effort you all put in at the legislature!"
on Mon, 05 Mar 2001 23:37:40 -0700 David A. Hansen <[e-mail]> gave
his thoughts on the last day of the Utah 2001 session and addressed HB 367 S3
- CONCEALED CARRY RECOGNITION - DONNELSON, which passed. While I post this to
show the apparent true colors of the NRA, the way to deal with it should it
affect you is, if at all possible, to do nothing to register Utah residency
until the day you file the permit application. This requires a definite move
on in meeting the requirements, as until you do you can't be employed as a
Utah resident, register to vote, apply for a driver, professional or resident
hunting license, or possibly even sign up for utilities. Please recall that
unless it has changed its policy, the NRA also opposes Vermont carry.
Excerpted.

Scott

-=-=-=-=-
On the topic of the CCW reciprocity bill, Terry Spencer pulled another
fast one on us. This time he worked with Brian Judy of the NRA to craft
an unenforceable amendment that would require anyone in Utah to acquire
a Utah CCW permit after being in the state 60 days.

When Judy was told that it took longer than 60 days to get a permit in
Utah, he still did not back down from his position. One has to wonder
just how much the NRA fights for your rights. Terry Spencer was quoted
as saying that this bill has the "holy blessing" of the NRA. Of course,
USSC, which is closely allied with the NRA, also endorsed this 60-day
stipulation. I just hope that when a court finds the 60-day provision
unconstitutional and stikes it down, that it doesn't strike down the
entire law that allows recognition of out-of-state CCW licenses. Please
thank the USSC and NRA for snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
Elwood Powell's email address is: mailto:[e-mail].

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From: "Chad Leigh, Pengar Enterprises, Inc & Shire.Net LLC" <[e-mail]>
Subject: guns and school violence
Date: 07 Mar 2001 09:28:40 -0500



Dear Mr. Eric Debarbieux:

In an AP news story that appeared today on YAHOO
(http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20010306/wl/france_school_violence_2.html)
you were quoted as saying:

"
"It is a problem of the commerce of arms," Debarbieux said. "As long as the
United States hasn't regulated the sale of arms, we will have this type of
thing."
"

You sir, no NOTHING of which you speak.  "Commerce of Arms" in the USA IS
regulated.  Much more than it should be.  Kids cannot buy guns today.  At
18 they can buy rifles and shotguns and at 21 they can buy a handgun. And
adults have a lot of regulataory red tape to go through.  Especially in
California, where this latest event happened.  Regulatory burdens are also
heavy for the gun dealer and other merchants of such items.

And the violence in schools has nothing to do with "availability of arms."
You obviously no nothing about arms in America, the rules and regulations
and heavy burdens placed upon them and their commerce, nor have you done
any research on the availability of arms in the US as related to school
violence.  Firearms were much more prevalent 40 years ago, when any teenage
kid could go buy one, and they were often taken to school if the owner
meant to go hunting or shooting before or after school.  And they never
were used for such horrific crimes back then either.  Guns have become a
lot less accessible than they ever were but the crimes keep on happening.

As you should know, in science, when studying something, if there is a
change in the system, you look for the variable that changed.  In the study
of violence in schools (in the USA), the violence has gone up, but gun
accessibility has gone down, a lot.  So it sure ain't the "gun
availability" that is spuring this on.

It is very disingenuous of you to go around making comments like the above
from the AP which are totally unfounded in any sort of way, since you are
recognized as an expert in this "field" and your comments are believed as
those of an expert.  In reality, your comments have no basis in reality and
seem to be those of a politically motivated "academic" whose head is stuck
in the unreality of the academic world where political purity is more
important than honest, research supported truth.

Shame on you!

Sincerely,
Chad Leigh
Merrimack, NH USA

Pengar Enterprises, Inc. and Shire.Net LLC
Web and Macintosh Consulting -- full service web hosting
Chad Leigh
[e-mail]            [e-mail]


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From: Scott Bergeson <[e-mail]>
Subject: McCain Incumbent Protection Bill Threatens Gun Owners
Date: 07 Mar 2001 10:39:40 -0700

McCain Incumbent Protection Bill Threatens Gun Owners
 -- Bill to keep gun owners in the dark, endanger existence of GOA

Gun Owners of America E-Mail/FAX Alert
8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102, Springfield, VA 22151
Phone: [phone] / FAX: [phone]
http://www.gunowners.org

(Tuesday, March 6, 2001) -- Irked by nettlesome groups such as GOA
which threaten to expose their anti-gun activities, Arizona Senator
John McCain (R) and Wisconsin Democrat Senator Russ Feingold (D) are
pushing legislation which would eliminate the ability of groups like
GOA to keep gun owners informed on how their legislators are voting.

In the name of reforming campaign finance laws, this Incumbent
Protection legislation would allow the government to seize the
membership lists of groups such as ours -- and potentially outlaw
our organization.  The issue is scheduled to come before the Senate
between March 19th and 26th.

The Incumbent Protection bill, S. 27, would require legislative
advocacy groups -- including Second Amendment organizations such as
GOA -- to report to the government if they spend more than $10,000
preparing for and participating in TV and radio broadcasts which
mention officeholder-candidates within two months of an election.
If they wished, government bureaucrats could define virtually all of
an organization's activities as "preparation" for TV and radio
interviews.

With GOA employees regularly appearing on TV shows such as Fox News,
Crossfire, and other programs to discuss gun-related legislation,
there can be little doubt that S. 27 would apply to this
organization.  If it did, GOA would be required to provide the
government with its donor list.  For the time being, this disclosure
would be limited to contributors of $1,000 or more, but no one
should assume this threshold would not be reduced or eliminated once
the government's foot was in our membership door.

It goes without saying that an activist who sends a check to GOA to
help protect his Second Amendment rights doesn't want his name being
registered with the government as a gun owner.  And for that reason,
GOA will fight this bill "tooth and nail."  And if this bill were to
become law, GOA would not comply.  We would fight it in court, and
exhaust every possible resource, because we are not going to turn
over our members' names to the government.

This underscores why it is SO VERY IMPORTANT that we defeat this
bill in the Congress!  GOA would rather spend its members' dollars
defending 2nd Amendment freedoms, as opposed to spending hundreds of
thousands of dollars fighting 1st Amendment battles in court.

Finally, because the Incumbent Protection bill would define
GOA's battles against anti-gun legislation as "electioneering" if
they occurred during election season, these legislative activities
could affect our tax-exempt status -- and ultimately, our existence.
Urge your Senators to keep their distance from John McCain and Russ
Feingold, and to respect the free speech rights of all Americans.


ACTION:

  1. Please call, fax or email your two Senators and ask them to
  filibuster and vote against the anti-gun McCain-Feingold bill,
  S. 27.  You can call the Senate at 202-224-3121, or toll-free at
  1-877-762-8762.  See the GOA Legislative Action Center at
  http://www.gunowners.org/activism.htm for complete Senate contact
  information, and to send pre-written messages.

  2. Forward this alert to as many gun owners as possible and ask
  them to contact their Senators in opposition to S. 27.


----- Pre-written message -----

Dear Senator:

The anti-gun McCain-Feingold bill, S. 27, threatens to open the
membership lists of Second Amendment organizations -- and even
threaten their tax-exempt status.  I urge you to oppose any bill
that would limit the ability of outside groups such as Gun Owners of
America to communicate with their members.

I rely on groups like GOA to keep me informed when my rights are
being threatened.  I would consider a law to muzzle such groups as
an attempt to avoid the accountability that an informed electorate
provides.

Please filibuster and vote against this anti-gun and anti-speech
abomination.  Let me know what you intend to do.  Thank you.

Sincerely,

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From: Karl Pearson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Patron Saint of Handgun Owners
Date: 08 Mar 2001 13:13:39 -0700 (MST)

Vatican urged to name handgun saint

CNN.com
February 28, 2001
Web posted at: 1:23 PM EST (1823 GMT)

VATICAN CITY, Vatican City -- CNN -- Admirers of a gun-toting saint are
campaigning for him to be made the patron saint of handgun owners.

St. Gabriel Possenti was known as a skilled gunman and is said to have once
used his skills to prevent a woman from being raped.

John Snyder, a former worker for the U.S. National Rifle Association, is
leading the campaign to give the saint the new title.

He said making Possenti the patron of handgun owners would demonstrate that
the Vatican was "courageous enough to stick its neck out for the right of
individuals to defend themselves against evil and tyranny."

Possenti was one of the three people made saints during the early 20th
century papacy of Benedict XV.

Although the Vatican has approved many saints as patrons of various
occupations or groups, its press office said naming a patron for gun
lobbyists was not opportune.

Possenti's reputation as a marksman is based on accounts that he once
frightened away renegade soldiers, who were about to rape a village woman,
by shooting a passing lizard.

To publicise his cause, Snyder, head of the St. Gabriel Possenti Society,
awarded medals, flanked by a handgun and a lizard, to other Possenti
lobbyists at a hotel near St. Peter's Basilica.

Snyder, who said the Vatican had told him he needed to enlist bishops from
around the world for his cause, added he would not be discouraged.

"I intend to keep bringing this to the Vatican's attention till they finally
get the message," Snyder said.

"Things in the Catholic church often take a very, very long time."


((( really.  cnn.  here's the link. )))
http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/europe/italy/02/28/Vatican.Possenti/index.html


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From: charles hardy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fw:  LP RELEASE: Media Bias & Shooting
Date: 09 Mar 2001 15:57:08 -0700

The following, Libertarian Party Press Release is quite interesting...

==================================================================
Charles C. Hardy
Utah Email Coordinator--Women Against Gun Control
<[e-mail]>

--------- Forwarded message ----------

High school shooting and car massacre:
Ultimate proof of media's anti-gun bias?

WASHINGTON, DC -- The media's anti-gun bias is showing loud and clear
this
week as the latest high school shooting (two dead in California) is
plastered all over every front page in America -- while last week's
murderous college car rampage (four dead in California) was virtually
ignored, charge Libertarians.

"A disturbed 15-year-old California high school student kills two
classmates
with a gun, and it's front-page news and around-the-clock TV coverage,"
said
George Getz, the Libertarian Party's press secretary. "Last week, a
disturbed 19-year-old California college student kills four classmates
with
a car, and it's a minor blurb in newspapers and a 10-second clip on the
news.

"What's the explanation for this, unless journalists are almost 100%
opposed
to the Second Amendment -- and eager to jump on any opportunity to
demonize
guns and exploit gun-related tragedies, while ignoring other, equally
horrific, crimes?"

On Monday, a 15-year-old boy opened fire on his classmates in Santee,
California, killing two and injuring 13 others at the Santana High
School.

The suspect, Charles Andrew Williams, was described as a "scrawny" kid
who
had been picked on by bullies. Over the previous weekend, he had joked
about
shooting up his school.

The story made the front page of almost every major American newspaper,
was
the lead item on the nightly network news, and is generating
around-the-clock discussion on cable TV networks. The crime also prompted
new demands to restrict or outlaw guns.

Meanwhile, on February 26, a 19-year-old student at the University of
California at Santa Barbara plowed his car -- traveling at 60 miles an
hour
-- into a crowd of college students in Isla Vista, killing four and
critically injuring one.

The suspect, David Attias, shouted, "I'm the angel of death!" as he was
taken away from the scene. He was described by fellow students as
troubled,
and was known in his dormitory as "Crazy Dave."

That story was relegated to the inside of most newspapers, and generated
scant attention on network or cable news shows. The crime prompted no
demands to restrict or outlaw automobiles.

Why was one a major story in the eyes of journalists -- and the other an
afterthought? The only plausible explanation is media bias, said Getz.

"Journalists are taught to revere the First Amendment, but most appear to
scorn the Second Amendment," he said. "So they use their First Amendment
rights to slant and distort the news to attack the Second Amendment.

"As America rightfully mourns the two dead students in Santee while
unfairly
ignoring the four dead students in Isla Vista, that media bias is on
display
for everyone to see."

Unfortunately, the Santana High School coverage isn't the only example of
the hostility the media has towards gun rights, said Getz.

In January, the Media Research Center released the results of a two-year
study examining how the four major networks covered gun-related news
stories.

The study, "Outgunned: How the Network News Media are Spinning the Gun
Control Debate," analyzed 635 stories on gun policy by ABC, CBS, CNN, and
NBC. It found that stories with an anti-gun perspective outnumbered
pro-gun
stories by 357 to 36 -- a 10-to-l ratio. Another 260 stories were
classified
as neutral.

Such a pattern is troubling -- not just for the Second Amendment, but for
the First Amendment, too, said Getz.

"Libertarians are distressed by the media's anti-gun bias, but we
recognize
journalists' right to broadcast whatever they want," he said. "However,
journalists need to understand that when they attack one basic right,
they
attack all rights; when they give politicians more power in one area,
they
give politicians more power in all areas.

"In the long run, the media's hostility to the Second Amendment -- and
the
exploitation of tragedies like the one at Santana High School -- will
help
undermine the right they hold most dear: The First Amendment. That's a
lesson journalists need to learn before it's too late."

#       #       #

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From: charles hardy <[e-mail]>
Date: 14 Mar 2001 12:56:48 -0700

The following story, from today's DesNews
<http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,255012503,00.html?> was also
reported on the TV news last night.  Both store owners said, on camera,
they were convinced that if they had not been armed they would have been
killed.

Sorry to any who missed the report last night since, unlike criminal acts
involving guns like school schootings, lawful self-defense such as this
incident almost never get replayed much.  I didn't time it, but estimate
that coverage of the latest school shooting in CA received twice as much
air time several days after the fact as this local, self-defense use of
guns received on the night it took place.



Pawnshop robbery-gunfight ends without any injury

                  A robbery-turned-gunfight ended peacefully at a Salt
Lake pawnshop Tuesday.
                  According to the Salt Lake Police Department, two men
entered Pickles Pawn Shop, 1514 S. State, at 11:15 a.m. and fired some
            warning shots at customers who were ordered to lie the floor.
                  Two pawnshop owners heard the gunplay, ducked behind a
counter at the store's rear and returned fire. The robbers then
            retreated and fired at least one more round toward prone
customers, police said.
                  The robbers fled into an alley, where they entered a
getaway car occupied by two females. No one was hurt in the incident,
police
            said.
==================================================================
Charles C. Hardy
Utah Email Coordinator--Women Against Gun Control
<[e-mail]>

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Chad Leigh, Pengar Enterprises, Inc & Shire.Net LLC" <[e-mail]>
Subject: another old but good article
Date: 14 Mar 2001 20:27:45 -0500

My brother posted this in 1995.  (For Utah folks concerns BYU).  Worth
reading

http://www.hoboes.com/pub/Firearms/Essays/No%20Logic%20in%20Gun%20Control


Pengar Enterprises, Inc. and Shire.Net LLC
Web and Macintosh Consulting -- full service web hosting
Chad Leigh
[e-mail]            [e-mail]


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From: Scott Bergeson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Where it's a crime not to own a gun
Date: 14 Mar 2001 19:21:02 -0700

Where it's a crime not to own a gun
----------
   In Virgin, Utah, where dislike of the federal government runs deep
   and residents regularly defy federal mandates, the town council
   responded to gun control measures with a symbolic ordinance
   requiring guns in every home. (03/14/01)
http://www.csmonitor.com/durable/2001/03/14/fp3s1-csm.shtml

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From: charles hardy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Paycheck protection signed into law
Date: 20 Mar 2001 13:58:08 -0700

According to the legislative web page, Gov. Leavitt signed HB 179,
Voluntary Contributions Act, aka "Paycheck Proteciont into law yesterday.
 While this is not a big surprise, it is still good news to gun owners
and other grass roots groups.

I'm sure the NEA and Public Employee Union will file their lawsuit(s)
shortly to challange the law.  Here's hoping it receives a thorough and
vigorous defense and is quickly found to be constitutional and
enforcable.

==================================================================
Charles C. Hardy
Utah Email Coordinator--Women Against Gun Control
<[e-mail]>

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Scott Bergeson" <[e-mail]>
Subject: To survivor, guns are the answer
Date: 21 Mar 2001 11:27:13 -0700

http://arizonarepublic.com/news/articles/0318texasguns18.html

To survivor, guns are the answer

Hector Tobar
Los Angeles Times
March 18, 2001

AUSTIN - State Rep. Suzanna Hupp doesn't like to advertise the
fact. But if you press her, she won't deny it - yes, she does
carry a loaded gun when she's on the floor of the Texas House
of Representatives. She feels safer.

For similar reasons, she authored a bill - three days before
the recent school shooting in Santee, Calif. - to allow rural
high school principals to carry concealed weapons on the job.

"People who commit these crimes are sick, twisted individuals
who are looking for easy victims," Hupp said Tuesday, which
was Texas' annual Second Amendment Day, marking the
constitutional right to bear arms. Even in Texas, however,
the proposal to arm principals faces an uphill struggle.

But spend 30 minutes in the company of Hupp and you'll
understand why a dozen more outrages like the ones at
Columbine and Santana high schools would not be likely to
produce much support for tougher gun laws in rural America,
where owning a weapon is considered both a proud tradition
and sacred right.

Hupp, 41, is a survivor of the 1991 massacre in Killeen,
Texas, in which 23 people died. She has been elected three
times to the Texas Legislature on what could be called a
"guns and more guns" platform. She is the person perhaps
most responsible for the 1996 law that allows Texans to
carry concealed weapons.

The armed-principal bill is just one of a dozen gun bills she's
authored or co-authored for this year's legislative session.
Together, they would chip away at the remaining restrictions
on carrying a weapon in Texas - it's still illegal to carry a gun
in churches, on university campuses and at public schools.

"I try to obey the law," she said in an interview. "But when it
isn't convenient, or when I feel like I should (have a gun),
then I carry. I never want to be in that position ever again."

"That position" refers to the events of Oct. 16, 1991, the day
that scarred Hupp forever and set her off on a public crusade.

She was having lunch with her parents at the Luby's Cafeteria
in Killeen when a gunman crashed his car through the front
window and began methodically shooting people. Hupp's gun was
locked in her car - it was then illegal for her to carry it.
(At the time, she worked as a chiropractor and feared she
would lose her license if she broke the law.) So she could do
nothing while the gunman killed her mother and father. Hupp
ran out a shattered window, thinking her mother was behind
her, only to find out later that she had died embracing her
husband.

Copyright 2001, The Arizona Republic. All rights reserved
Gannett Co. Inc

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: charles hardy <[e-mail]>
Subject: FW: Man Saves Life with Gun
Date: 22 Mar 2001 10:54:11 -0700

With the leg session over things have really slowed down so I though I'd
pass along some other info.  While I do so, I also want to remind any
SLCo Republican Precinct Chairs and other officers to be sure to attend
the County Central Committee meeting this Saturday.

==================================================================
Charles C. Hardy
Utah Email Coordinator--Women Against Gun Control
<[e-mail]>

--------- Forwarded message ----------

"If I'd had a trigger lock, I'd be dead," he said. "If my pistol had been
in
a gun safe, I'd be dead. If the bullets were stored separate, I'd be
dead.
They were going to kill me."

Man faces suspects accused of attacking him after getting ride

Victim had just fixed meal when he was assaulted and stabbed

By Ellen Miller, News Staff Writer

GRAND JUNCTION -- Chuck Harris, his right hand laced with stitches and
his
partially shaved head showing scars, came to court Tuesday to eyeball his
attackers.

It was the first time he had seen them since March 1, the day he was
attacked and stabbed repeatedly by young hitchhikers he had befriended.

Harris, a contractor, had picked up three young hitchhikers on his way
home
from work, taken them home and fixed them a steak dinner. He was
preparing
to offer them work when two of them attacked him, stabbing him repeatedly
in
the back, head and hands with knifes they had taken from Harris' kitchen.

The assault stopped when Harris said he would get them money. Instead, he
grabbed a .44-Magnum pistol he kept in a desk drawer and began shooting.
He
shot one in the torso. The two others tried to flee in Harris' car, so he
shot out two tires.

Police arrested the pair a short distance from Harris' house.

That was more than two weeks ago. Tuesday, Harris was in Mesa County
Court,
watching the legal process unfold.

"I plan to be here, every time," said Harris, 48, who came to court
Tuesday
with his mother and two of his three daughters. "I want them to get the
maximum so they don't do this to anybody else."

Tuesday's proceeding set May 25 for a preliminary hearing for the accused
attackers -- Richard Barbee, 25, and Colleen McLean, 18, both of
Bakersfield, Calif. The third suspect, Harold Scott, is in fair condition
at
St. Mary's Hospital. Charges are pending his release, police say.

Barbee and McLean remain in jail, Barbee on $500,000 bail and McLean on
$60,000 bail. Barbee faces 17 felony charges, including a first-degree
kidnapping charge that could result in life in prison without parole.
McLean
is facing lesser charges.

Harris, whose right hand remains swollen and bruised, said Tuesday that
he
will be off work for at least six weeks because four of his tendons were
severed in the attack.

"Working again is still a question," he said. "But I walked a mile today.
I'm feeling stronger."

Harris said the attack took him by surprise and that he was glad his
pistol
was easily available.

"If I'd had a trigger lock, I'd be dead," he said. "If my pistol had been
in
a gun safe, I'd be dead. If the bullets were stored separate, I'd be
dead.
They were going to kill me."


________________________________________________________________
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: charles hardy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Professional lobbyist for anti-gun group
Date: 26 Mar 2001 21:24:13 -0700

From today's SLTrib, <http://www.sltrib.com/03262001/utah/83117.htm>.

Our fight is obviously far from won.  Also, looks like monster.com needs
to be added to known anti-gun businesses.  Finally, so far as I know from
my layman's reading of Utah law, the contention in this article that a
gun can be carried loaded so long as it is in plain sight is in error.  I
fairly sure statute prohibits carrying a loaded gun inside city limits
unless it is carried concealed purusiant to a State issued CCW permit.
Of course, having lived in Arizona for a few months and having enjoyed
the ability to openly carry a loaded weapons without having to get a
permit, I think it would be a fine change to make to our laws.  :)

We need to make sure that our legislators hear from us during the off
season.


----------------
Charles Hardy
<[e-mail]>



Gun Control Is No Easy Sale in Utah
                                                              Monday,
March 26,
                                                              2001


      BY GREG BURTON

      THE SALT LAKE TRIBUNE

          For Utah gun owners,
      little has changed since the
      days when Brigham
      Young cautioned
      Mormon pioneers to
      stock food and rifles.
          More than 30,000
      Utahns have applied for
      and been granted
      concealed-carry permits,
      and virtually every
      able-bodied, law-abiding
      citizen able to vote can
      strap on a holster with a
      loaded pistol in Utah as
      long as the weapon
      remains in plain view.
          It's an environment that
      makes Maura Carabello's
      job all the more difficult.
          Fresh from handling the
      failed congressional
      campaign of a young
      Democrat running in a district engulfed by Utah County Republicans,
      Carabello will now attempt what some would view as trying to
squeeze
      water from a rock -- altering the course of Utah's gun culture.
          Earlier this year, Utahns Against Gun Violence, or UAGV, hired
      Carabello to apply a polish to their grass-roots organization. She
will
      lobby the state's pro-gun Legislature, rally donors to her side and
begin a
      campaign bent on incremental change to laws governing guns in Utah.

          UAGV was founded in 1993 by Ron and Norma Molen after their
      22-year-old son Steven was killed trying to save a friend attacked
in a
      dorm on the campus of Indiana University.
          For nearly a decade, board members have done their own,
part-time
      lobbying. Carabello is the group's first dedicated employee
assigned to
      the fight for gun control, a realm few Utahns have dared venture
into.
          "What surprises me is some of the venom on the Hill spewed by
the
      pro-gun lobby," she says. "We disagree, but, wow!"
          Carabello's position was created through a $65,000 grant from
      Monster.com mogul Andy McKelvey, who has funded scores of similar
      projects across the country since establishing Americans for Gun
Safety
      last year.
          On McKelvey's dime, the group has run a national advertising
blitz
      defending the right to own guns while arguing that law-abiding gun
      owners need not fear sensible restrictions. Sen. John McCain,
R-Ariz.,
      joined the group's fight this year to close the loophole that
allows sales of
      some weapons at gun shows without a background check.
          Like McKelvey's organization, Carabello's first priority is to
close
      what the groups call Utah's gun show loophole, a proposition that
      withered without debate this year in the Utah House of Repre-
sentatives.

          "Maybe having a dialogue off-session will help," she says.
          Originally from Colorado, Carabello graduated from Utah State
      University and was director of the Children's Friends Foundation
and the
      Utah Statehood Centennial Commission before running 3rd District
      congressional candidate Donald Dunn's 2000 campaign. Two of Dunn's
      friends, board members for Utahns Against Gun Violence, asked
      Carabello if she would be interested in running their group after
the
      campaign.
          "We simply needed to do something to fight this cavalier
attitude
      toward guns," says Steve Gunn, an attorney and founding board
member
      of UAGV. "Personally, I am concerned about the fact that there
seems to
      be no voice for reasonable gun control. All I can hear is the loud
voice of
      the [National Rifle Association]."
          Carabello's first taste of Utah's gun fever came during a
January
      legislative committee hearing where she was outnumbered nearly
50-to-1
      by pro-gun citizens.
          "You have to give the gun owners credit. They are organized and
      focused," she says. "But I don't think that makes them
representative of
      more people."
          Clark Aposhian, chairman of the Utah Self-Defense Instructors
      Network, disagrees.
          "Our legislative process is open to everyone -- you cannot stop
      anyone from calling a House or Senate member," he says. "If they
have
      the numbers on their side, why don't they pack these rooms? The
fact is
      they don't have the numbers."
          Aposhian, like the NRA and the state's most dogged gun-rights
group,
      Utah Gun Owners Alliance, opposes any change to gun show laws.
          "What 'Utahns Against Gun Owners' " -- as Aposhian calls Utahns
      Against Gun Violence -- "are saying is now we are not going to
allow
      these individuals to sell their own personal property. What they
are really
      looking to do is shut [gun shows] down."
          Carabello did little lobbying before the 2001 Legislature. Her
      opponents, as in years past, lobbied furiously before and during
the
      session. Even so, the gun-rights advocates managed to clear just
one
      significant measure through the House and Senate.
          House Bill 376 allows out-of-state visitors with
concealed-carry
      permits to carry their guns in Utah for 60 days. After two months,
the
      visitors would be required to secure a Utah concealed-weapon
permit.
          The bill was sold as an attraction for gun-toting tourists,
although the
      pro-gun faction made little secret of its desire for all states to
also
      endorse Utah permits.
          Next year, Carabello will push legislation to end unrestricted
gun show
      sales and a bill that would punish parents who allow children
access to
      loaded guns. Utahns Against Gun Violence also supports an
initiative
      sponsored by the Safe to Learn Safe to Worship Coalition that would
      ban guns from churches and schools.
          "I look at these things and say 'Wow, that sounds reasonable,'
" she
      says. "We're not talking about taking anybody's gun away. That's
where
      we need to work on our message. We need to have a dialogue, and
      that's where I come in."

----------------
Charles Hardy
<[e-mail]>
________________________________________________________________
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Chad Leigh, Pengar Enterprises, Inc & Shire.Net LLC" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Professional lobbyist for anti-gun group
Date: 26 Mar 2001 23:31:24 -0500

I don't know the current utah law but you used to be able to carry an
"unloaded" gun openly.  Loaded was defined as needing 2 actions to fire it
so a loaded mag in a semi could be carried but not in the chamber, for
example.  I used to carry like that in that back in 94 off and on, in Utah
County and one or twice in Sandy and at the point of the mountain when
flying my rc planes.

Chad
from what was warm spring like NH, but it snowed 1/2" or so tonight and I
think it is still snowing, and we still have 4-16" on the ground which has
ben snow covered since Dec 30 00.

--On Monday, March 26, 2001 9:24 PM -0700 charles hardy
<[e-mail]> wrote:

>> From today's SLTrib, <http://www.sltrib.com/03262001/utah/83117.htm>.
>
> Our fight is obviously far from won.  Also, looks like monster.com needs
> to be added to known anti-gun businesses.  Finally, so far as I know from
> my layman's reading of Utah law, the contention in this article that a
> gun can be carried loaded so long as it is in plain sight is in error.  I
> fairly sure statute prohibits carrying a loaded gun inside city limits
> unless it is carried concealed purusiant to a State issued CCW permit.
> Of course, having lived in Arizona for a few months and having enjoyed
> the ability to openly carry a loaded weapons without having to get a
> permit, I think it would be a fine change to make to our laws.  :)
>
> We need to make sure that our legislators hear from us during the off
> season.
>
>
> ----------------
> Charles Hardy
> <[e-mail]>
>
>
>
> Gun Control Is No Easy Sale in Utah
>                                                               Monday,
> March 26,
>                                                               2001
>
>
>       BY GREG BURTON
>
>       THE SALT LAKE TRIBUNE
>
>           For Utah gun owners,
>       little has changed since the
>       days when Brigham
>       Young cautioned
>       Mormon pioneers to
>       stock food and rifles.
>           More than 30,000
>       Utahns have applied for
>       and been granted
>       concealed-carry permits,
>       and virtually every
>       able-bodied, law-abiding
>       citizen able to vote can
>       strap on a holster with a
>       loaded pistol in Utah as
>       long as the weapon
>       remains in plain view.
>           It's an environment that
>       makes Maura Carabello's
>       job all the more difficult.
>           Fresh from handling the
>       failed congressional
>       campaign of a young
>       Democrat running in a district engulfed by Utah County Republicans,
>       Carabello will now attempt what some would view as trying to
> squeeze
>       water from a rock -- altering the course of Utah's gun culture.
>           Earlier this year, Utahns Against Gun Violence, or UAGV, hired
>       Carabello to apply a polish to their grass-roots organization. She
> will
>       lobby the state's pro-gun Legislature, rally donors to her side and
> begin a
>       campaign bent on incremental change to laws governing guns in Utah.
>
>           UAGV was founded in 1993 by Ron and Norma Molen after their
>       22-year-old son Steven was killed trying to save a friend attacked
> in a
>       dorm on the campus of Indiana University.
>           For nearly a decade, board members have done their own,
> part-time
>       lobbying. Carabello is the group's first dedicated employee
> assigned to
>       the fight for gun control, a realm few Utahns have dared venture
> into.
>           "What surprises me is some of the venom on the Hill spewed by
> the
>       pro-gun lobby," she says. "We disagree, but, wow!"
>           Carabello's position was created through a $65,000 grant from
>       Monster.com mogul Andy McKelvey, who has funded scores of similar
>       projects across the country since establishing Americans for Gun
> Safety
>       last year.
>           On McKelvey's dime, the group has run a national advertising
> blitz
>       defending the right to own guns while arguing that law-abiding gun
>       owners need not fear sensible restrictions. Sen. John McCain,
> R-Ariz.,
>       joined the group's fight this year to close the loophole that
> allows sales of
>       some weapons at gun shows without a background check.
>           Like McKelvey's organization, Carabello's first priority is to
> close
>       what the groups call Utah's gun show loophole, a proposition that
>       withered without debate this year in the Utah House of Repre-
> sentatives.
>
>           "Maybe having a dialogue off-session will help," she says.
>           Originally from Colorado, Carabello graduated from Utah State
>       University and was director of the Children's Friends Foundation
> and the
>       Utah Statehood Centennial Commission before running 3rd District
>       congressional candidate Donald Dunn's 2000 campaign. Two of Dunn's
>       friends, board members for Utahns Against Gun Violence, asked
>       Carabello if she would be interested in running their group after
> the
>       campaign.
>           "We simply needed to do something to fight this cavalier
> attitude
>       toward guns," says Steve Gunn, an attorney and founding board
> member
>       of UAGV. "Personally, I am concerned about the fact that there
> seems to
>       be no voice for reasonable gun control. All I can hear is the loud
> voice of
>       the [National Rifle Association]."
>           Carabello's first taste of Utah's gun fever came during a
> January
>       legislative committee hearing where she was outnumbered nearly
> 50-to-1
>       by pro-gun citizens.
>           "You have to give the gun owners credit. They are organized and
>       focused," she says. "But I don't think that makes them
> representative of
>       more people."
>           Clark Aposhian, chairman of the Utah Self-Defense Instructors
>       Network, disagrees.
>           "Our legislative process is open to everyone -- you cannot stop
>       anyone from calling a House or Senate member," he says. "If they
> have
>       the numbers on their side, why don't they pack these rooms? The
> fact is
>       they don't have the numbers."
>           Aposhian, like the NRA and the state's most dogged gun-rights
> group,
>       Utah Gun Owners Alliance, opposes any change to gun show laws.
>           "What 'Utahns Against Gun Owners' " -- as Aposhian calls Utahns
>       Against Gun Violence -- "are saying is now we are not going to
> allow
>       these individuals to sell their own personal property. What they
> are really
>       looking to do is shut [gun shows] down."
>           Carabello did little lobbying before the 2001 Legislature. Her
>       opponents, as in years past, lobbied furiously before and during
> the
>       session. Even so, the gun-rights advocates managed to clear just
> one
>       significant measure through the House and Senate.
>           House Bill 376 allows out-of-state visitors with
> concealed-carry
>       permits to carry their guns in Utah for 60 days. After two months,
> the
>       visitors would be required to secure a Utah concealed-weapon
> permit.
>           The bill was sold as an attraction for gun-toting tourists,
> although the
>       pro-gun faction made little secret of its desire for all states to
> also
>       endorse Utah permits.
>           Next year, Carabello will push legislation to end unrestricted
> gun show
>       sales and a bill that would punish parents who allow children
> access to
>       loaded guns. Utahns Against Gun Violence also supports an
> initiative
>       sponsored by the Safe to Learn Safe to Worship Coalition that would
>       ban guns from churches and schools.
>           "I look at these things and say 'Wow, that sounds reasonable,'
> " she
>       says. "We're not talking about taking anybody's gun away. That's
> where
>       we need to work on our message. We need to have a dialogue, and
>       that's where I come in."
>
> ----------------
> Charles Hardy
> <[e-mail]>
> ________________________________________________________________
> GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
> http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
>
> -
>



Pengar Enterprises, Inc. and Shire.Net LLC
Web and Macintosh Consulting -- full service web hosting
Chad Leigh
[e-mail]            [e-mail]


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Scott Bergeson" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Monster.com
Date: 27 Mar 2001 12:04:43 -0700

Billionaire Andrew McKelvey is the owner of Monster.com, and
according to http://www.denverpost.com/news/election/pol1005.htm
is a registered Republican.

Scott

Future of gun control murky
----------
   Gun control forces are in disarray around the country, with
   traditional gun grabbers turning their wrath on a new ally that
   wants to recognize the individual right to bear arms even as it
   lobbies for restrictions. (03/27/01)
http://www.dallasnews.com/national/322293_guncontrol_27n.html

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Scott Bergeson" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Texas gun bill wounded by surprise attack
Date: 28 Mar 2001 13:52:48 -0700

This sort of NRA acquiescence to victim disarmament
goes on in other states as well, and fortunately other
groups encounter them in some other states as well.

Scott

Texas gun bill wounded by surprise attack
----------
   A Texas bill that would bar even those simply accused of domestic
   violence from having a gun has been slowed on its seeming easy
   track to passage by an upstart gun rights group's aggressive
   e-mail attack. The state NRA affiliate had rolled over and
   agreed not to oppose the measure. (03/28/01)
http://www.dallasnews.com/texas_southwest/323189_gallery_28tex..html

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: charles hardy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Stay up on interim meetings this year
Date: 28 Mar 2001 15:56:11 -0700

While it is always important to follow the interim meetings of the
legislature, this article from today's SLTrib seems to indicate it will
be particularly important to be involved in those meetings this year.
Let's make sure we don't end up with bad bills passing and being on the
"fast track" during the session.  Let's also try to get some good stuff
passed.

----------------
Charles Hardy
<[e-mail]>

<http://www.sltrib.com/03282001/utah/83526.htm>


Lawmakers Spike Special Session Before Olympics
                                                              Wednesday,
March 28,
                                                              2001


      BY GREG BURTON

      THE SALT LAKE TRIBUNE

         It's the Winter Olympics 1, the 2002 Legislative session 0.
          Two months after Utah lawmakers thought they had hammered out a
      compromise schedule to fit around the 17-day Olympic extravaganza,
      Democratic and Republican leaders acknowledged defeat Monday.
          A tentative schedule -- approved in a meeting during the 2001
      Legislature -- included a 10-day special session preceding the
general
      session, mandated by the Utah Constitution to begin the third
Monday of
      January. The general session would have adjourned Feb. 7 for the
      Olympics, restarted Feb. 25 and been closed for good March 6.
          Unfortunately, unfinished business from the special session
won't
      transfer to the general session, analysts told the Legislative
Management
      Committee.
          So while lawmakers still plan to break for the 2002 Winter
Olympics -- a
      period during which they probably will be paid -- they have
scrapped plans
      for the special session.
          Instead they hope to front-load much of their committee work
during
      less-restrictive interim meetings. Most bills passed during interim
meetings
      will put on a fast-track straight to the House and Senate floors.
          Squeezing the session down, though, presents a host of other
problems,
      House Minority Leader Ralph Becker said. "We're that much more
rushed
      for time, that much less deliberative."
          To ease their burdens, House and Senate leaders will ask
lawmakers to
      "voluntarily" limit their bill-writing to no more than six
measures, cutting an
      average workload of 1,000 bills to a more workable 600.
          Under another proposal, House Speaker Marty Stephens suggested
the
      Legislature schedule sub-appropriation meetings during the interim
session,
      remov ng much of the money-guessing game from the general session.
________________________________________________________________
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