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movies-digest         Wednesday, June 9 1999         Volume 02 : Number 197



Re: [MV] Re: Realy, really, really bad movies
[MV] re: Face/Off
RE: [MV] Re: Realy, really, really bad movies
[MV] Movie News - 05/30/99
Re: [MV] Re: Realy, really, really bad movies
Re: [MV] Re: Realy, really, really bad movies
Re: [MV] Re: Realy, really, really bad movies
Re: [MV] limbo
Re: [MV] Singapour Sling
RE: [MV] Re: Realy, really, really bad movies
Re: [MV] Re: Realy, really, really bad movies
Re: [MV] Re: millennial film fest
Re: [MV] Re: Realy, really, really bad movies
Re: [MV] Re: Realy, really, really bad movies
RE: Re: [MV] Re: Realy, really, really bad movies
RE: Re: [MV] Re: Realy, really, really bad movies
Re: [MV] Re: Realy, really, really bad movies
[MV] OT: posting with respect
Re: [MV] Re: Realy, really, really bad movies
Re: [MV] OT: posting with respect
Re: [MV] OT: posting with respect
[MV] Rudeness
Re: [MV] OT: posting with respect
Re: [MV] Re: Realy, really, really bad movies
Re: [MV] OT: posting with respect

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 03:03:57 -0500
From: "Kelly White" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [MV] Re: Realy, really, really bad movies

The fight scenes were awesome in The Matrix however, it went into way too
much detail on an absurd idea of what was going on.


- -----Original Message-----
From: jkrudy <[e-mail]>
To: '[e-mail]' <[e-mail]>
Date: Monday, June 07, 1999 8:26 PM
Subject: RE: [MV] Re: Realy, really, really bad movies


|did you cat just die or something?  What I mean is, there must have been
|some outside stimulus that ruined this movie for you.  Even at the most
|objective glance, The Matrix was a good movie.
|
|James
|
|
|
|
|-----Original Message-----
|From: Gene Ehrich [mailto:[e-mail]]
|Sent: Monday, June 07, 1999 7:23 PM
|To: [e-mail]
|Subject: RE: [MV] Re: Realy, really, really bad movies
|
|
|The absolute, number one, horrible, boring, bad movie in years = Matrix
|
|It has no competition.
|
|
|
|
|
|               gene@ehrich
|   http://www.voicenet.com/~generic
|Computer & Video Game Garage Sale
|
|Gene Ehrich
|PO Box 209
|Marlton NJ
|08053-0209
|
|[ To leave the movies mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ]
|[ movies" (without the quotes) to [e-mail]          ]
|
|[ To leave the movies mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ]
|[ movies" (without the quotes) to [e-mail]          ]



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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 21:50:39 -0700
From: Oz <[e-mail]>
Subject: [MV] re: Face/Off

I must admit, I agree with every single point this guy made. I can't
understand how people can watch something as cartoonish as Face/Off
and really call it "fantastic".

"If I asked you to... no, if I *let* you.. suck my tongue.. would
you be grateful?"

Utter bollocks. My theory is that people no longer go to the cinema
for a true cinematic masterpiece, they go to watch "really big TV".

[e-mail] wrote:
>
> my piece on the really bad movie thread: "face/off".
>
> when i saw the previews for this movie, i thought it looked like an
> intriguing idea for a movie: a cop, going after a bad guy, takes on the
> face of the bad guy to get info about the bad guy.  at the time, i didnt
> know it was a john woo movie.
>
> so i went to see it a few days after it came out.  right off the bat, i was
> horrified.  in my opinion, this is perhaps the most pretentious,
> simple-minded, terribly-constructed films ever made (especially of
> larger-budget movies).  within just minutes of the beginning of the movie,
> i was literally predicting lines - the script is that simple and pathetic.
> the opening sequence of the film is absolutely disgusting, it is so
> terribly trite and sappy: travolta's kid gets shot by cage, and travolta
> weepily goes over to help his kid.  not only is the dialogue insanely
> childish, the action scenes throughout the film are completely
> uninteresting and unrealistic: i do sometimes enjoy movies where
> "suspension of belief" is necessary (case in point: through all my life,
> i've never really thought much of the star wars movies, but i really like
> "the phantom menace"), but "face/off" takes the requirements of suspension
> of belief to unprecedented and (in my opinion) obnoxious proportions.  for
> suspension of belief films to work, they have to sufficiently create their
> own universe, and make the elements of the film fit to that universe.
> "face/off", however, tries to fit a completely unrealistic idea into the
> world as it really is, and tries to make normal-seeming people do
> unbelieveable things.  while they might have TRIED to make their own
> universe in "face/off", or atleast had in mind that they were making one, i
> didnt feel like they had any success at all giving the impression that the
> story was meant to take place in a fantasy-type world.
>
> this movie sealed the deal for me as far as nicolas cage is concerned: he's
> the WORST popular actor, i think.  ever since he decided to leave comedic
> movies (and i'll say this: i thought he was very good in "raising arizona",
> which is an awfully funny movie), he's gone to hell.  although i cant
> demonstrate it here, when describing why i dislike cage so much nowadays, i
> imitate what i call his "drama face": if you've seen any of his recent
> popular films ("leaving las vegas", "snake eyes", "face/off", "8mm",
> "con-air"), he does a pathetic little sappy face atleast once (and in
> movies like "face/off", he does it over and over and over again, when he's
> acting as travolta's character and is upset about his predicament).
>
> if i'd have known face/off was a john woo movie before i went to see it, i
> probably wouldn't have seen it.  while "hard boiled" is slightly
> interesting, the ridiculous action of it gets irritating after a while.
> "broken arrow" was ridiculous, too, so i would've stayed away from
> "face/off" like the plague had i known.
>
> unfortunately, over the years of my hating "face/off", i've come across
> relateively few others who feel the same as i do.  most intelligent people
> that i've talked to have just viewed it as another mediocre hollywood
> action film.  the world's morons (most everyone) thought it was pure
> brilliance, of course - these are the people that made "armageddon" and
> "titanic" two of the biggest money-making films of all-time.
>
> [ To leave the movies mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ]
> [ movies" (without the quotes) to [e-mail]          ]

- --
    ----------------- {{{OZ}}} -------------------
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    ----------------------------------------------

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 10:08:35 CDT
From: Wade S. <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: [MV] Re: Realy, really, really bad movies

hahahahaha........ i think this must've been a post just to engender heated
discussion. It would have to be when considering some of the worthless tripe
to come out of Hollywood in just the past year, including The Siege, I Still
Know What You Did Last Summer, Snake Eyes, Godzilla, The Avengers, and as I
heard someone mention, Baby Geniuses... the last of which I have not
subjected myself to....

Even if you don't like the Matrix, I question your sanity to find it as
worse than any of the aforementioned movies.........


Wade



>
>The absolute, number one, horrible, boring, bad movie in years = Matrix
>
>It has no competition.
>
>
>
>
>
>                gene@ehrich
>    http://www.voicenet.com/~generic
>Computer & Video Game Garage Sale
>
>Gene Ehrich
>PO Box 209
>Marlton NJ
>08053-0209
>
>[ To leave the movies mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ]
>[ movies" (without the quotes) to [e-mail]          ]


_______________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 11:42:24 -0600
From: "The Reporter" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [MV] Movie News - 05/30/99

Mike Myers is anything but coy. For starters, the title
of his new 007-spoof, "Austin Powers: The Spy Who Shagged
Me" (which opens Friday), contains a British colloquialism
that shouldn't be uttered in polite company. In fact,
the title has been banned in Singapore. Now, reports
Variety, one scene in the sequel to the very funny 1996
"Austin Powers" has been relegated to the cutting room
floor for being too risquΘ: Robert Wagner, who reprises
his role as Dr. Evil's sidekick No. 2, ended the film
coupled nude in bed with Rob Lowe, who plays (with the
help of a time machine) a younger version of Wagner in
the new film. "It's not cheating, is it?'' said one to
the other. Says Variety: "Sources said that though it
got big laughs, the scene was deemed too racy for a
PG-13 film."

* While the scissors are out, the new film -- which is
even funnier than the original -- could easily lose one
scatological scene in which Austin samples the stool of
a heavy henchman. (The villain, named Fat Bastard, is
also played by Myers.) Another word to the wise: Don't
show up late to the movie. It contains the most hysterical
opening credits since "Monty Python and the Holy Grail."

                        -=> * <=-

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) - Documentary filmmaker Ken Burns has nothing good
to say about commercial TV. Speaking at a Public Broadcasting Service
meeting Monday, he described TV as a "potentially lethal light in our
living rooms and our minds that has the capacity of eroding our
culture from within." The maker of "The Civil War" and "Baseball"
documentaries called PBS "an oasis on the dial." Among "dozens of
clone-like channels," PBS, which airs Burns' work, is able to thrive
because it's different, he said. Burns also showed a few minutes of
his upcoming 18-hour series "Jazz," which traces the music's origins
and offers a glimpse into America's soul, he said.


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 21:13:02 -0600
From: "Blacknight <[e-mail]>" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [MV] Re: Realy, really, really bad movies

[e-mail] wrote:

> unfortunately, over the years of my hating "face/off", i've come across
> relateively few others who feel the same as i do.  most intelligent people
> that i've talked to have just viewed it as another mediocre hollywood
> action film.  the world's morons (most everyone) thought it was pure
> brilliance, of course - these are the people that made "armageddon" and
> "titanic" two of the biggest money-making films of all-time.
>

Please do not call me a moron!!! I enjoyed Face/Off very much, for me it was a
very refreshing action movie. I would never trade it for the usual formulaic
Van Damme or Seagal movies.

blacknight


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 23:24:25 -0400
From: "Chris Culligan" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [MV] Re: Realy, really, really bad movies

Well said Blacknight!  People are entitled to their opinions!  We don't need
to call names.  I liked Face-off, liked Titanic, and hated Armageddon.  But
that's just me.  If you liked Armageddon, more power to you.  As long as you
enjoyed yourself at the movies.

CHRIS

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Blacknight <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
To: Movies Mailing List <[e-mail]>
Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 1999 11:13 PM
Subject: Re: [MV] Re: Realy, really, really bad movies


> [e-mail] wrote:
>
> > unfortunately, over the years of my hating "face/off", i've come across
> > relateively few others who feel the same as i do.  most intelligent
people
> > that i've talked to have just viewed it as another mediocre hollywood
> > action film.  the world's morons (most everyone) thought it was pure
> > brilliance, of course - these are the people that made "armageddon" and
> > "titanic" two of the biggest money-making films of all-time.
> >
>
> Please do not call me a moron!!! I enjoyed Face/Off very much, for me it
was a
> very refreshing action movie. I would never trade it for the usual
formulaic
> Van Damme or Seagal movies.
>
> blacknight
>
>
> [ To leave the movies mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ]
> [ movies" (without the quotes) to [e-mail]          ]
>


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 22:37:45 -0500
From: Diane Christy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [MV] Re: Realy, really, really bad movies

On 6/8/99, 10:13 PM -0500, Blacknight <[e-mail]> said so
nicely:
>[e-mail] wrote:
>
>> unfortunately, over the years of my hating "face/off", i've come across
>> relateively few others who feel the same as i do.  most intelligent people
>> that i've talked to have just viewed it as another mediocre hollywood
>> action film.  the world's morons (most everyone) thought it was pure
>> brilliance, of course - these are the people that made "armageddon" and
>> "titanic" two of the biggest money-making films of all-time.
>>
>
>Please do not call me a moron!!! I enjoyed Face/Off very much, for me it was a
>very refreshing action movie. I would never trade it for the usual formulaic
>Van Damme or Seagal movies.

AMEN!!  I really enjoyed it too.  I think Travolta and Cage are a joy to watch.
~~~~~
Diane Christy (Samantha and Joshua's Mom)
Jefferson, LA
http://www.geocities.com/~dchristy10/
mailto:[e-mail]
ICQ #12904700  <dkbc10> on Instant Messenger
~~~~~

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 20:52:49 +0000
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: [MV] limbo

Has anybody seen Limbo yet?  I caught it at a screening and to my surprise
found out that John Sayles was in the audience and took questions after the
movie.  I had come in after the announcement.

Anyway, it is not his best and has some problems (I thought it became
ponderous, some of the dialogue trite and some actors weak) but is very good
and challenging.  He definitely marches to his own tune and refuses to
follow the rules.

People will either love or hate the ending (I thought it was perfect.)  Of
course to even hint at it would be a crime.  IN fact I think a lot of people
will come out of the theater pissed off.

Anyway, if you are up for an intelligent flick that defies expectations you
should check this out.

bb
- --


- ----------
>From: "Chris Culligan" <[e-mail]>
>To: <[e-mail]>
>Subject: Re: [MV] Re: Realy, really, really bad movies
>Date: Wed, Jun 9, 1999, 3:24 AM
>

> Well said Blacknight!  People are entitled to their opinions!  We don't need
> to call names.  I liked Face-off, liked Titanic, and hated Armageddon.  But
> that's just me.  If you liked Armageddon, more power to you.  As long as you
> enjoyed yourself at the movies.
>
> CHRIS
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Blacknight <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
> To: Movies Mailing List <[e-mail]>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 1999 11:13 PM
> Subject: Re: [MV] Re: Realy, really, really bad movies
>
>
>> [e-mail] wrote:
>>
>> > unfortunately, over the years of my hating "face/off", i've come across
>> > relateively few others who feel the same as i do.  most intelligent
> people
>> > that i've talked to have just viewed it as another mediocre hollywood
>> > action film.  the world's morons (most everyone) thought it was pure
>> > brilliance, of course - these are the people that made "armageddon" and
>> > "titanic" two of the biggest money-making films of all-time.
>> >
>>
>> Please do not call me a moron!!! I enjoyed Face/Off very much, for me it
> was a
>> very refreshing action movie. I would never trade it for the usual
> formulaic
>> Van Damme or Seagal movies.
>>
>> blacknight
>>
>>
>> [ To leave the movies mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ]
>> [ movies" (without the quotes) to [e-mail]          ]
>>
>
>
> [ To leave the movies mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ]
> [ movies" (without the quotes) to [e-mail]          ]
>

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 23:49:55 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: [MV] Singapour Sling

In a message dated 6/7/99 5:16:53 PM Central Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<<  A long time ago, I have seen a movie where the hero attracts the heroine
 > by offering her many glasses of a cocktail called "Singapour Sling".
 > Please help me, I don't remember the title.
 > Thanks,
 > Patrick >>

well, johnny depp orders one at the beginning of Fear and Loathing in Las
Vegas, but that's not to attract anyone.....

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 07:33:52 -0400
From: Gene Ehrich <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: [MV] Re: Realy, really, really bad movies

>Even if you don't like the Matrix, I question your sanity to find it as
>worse than any of the aforementioned movies.........

  The only one of the preceding that we saw was Snake yes and although it
was not very good it came nowhere close to being as bad as Matrix. I see no
reason for Matrix to have been made other that for very young boys who
spent their whole life looking at nothing but video games.

>
>
>Wade
>
>
>
>>
>>The absolute, number one, horrible, boring, bad movie in years = Matrix
>>
>>It has no competition.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>                gene@ehrich
>>    http://www.voicenet.com/~generic
>>Computer & Video Game Garage Sale
>>
>>Gene Ehrich
>>PO Box 209
>>Marlton NJ
>>08053-0209
>>
>>[ To leave the movies mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ]
>>[ movies" (without the quotes) to [e-mail]          ]
>
>
>_______________________________________________________________
>Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
>
>[ To leave the movies mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ]
>[ movies" (without the quotes) to [e-mail]          ]


               gene@ehrich
   http://www.voicenet.com/~generic
Computer & Video Game Garage Sale

Gene Ehrich
PO Box 209
Marlton NJ
08053-0209

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 22:34:51 -0700
From: Oz <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [MV] Re: Realy, really, really bad movies

"Blacknight " wrote:
>
> Please do not call me a moron!!! I enjoyed Face/Off very much, for me it was a
> very refreshing action movie. I would never trade it for the usual formulaic
> Van Damme or Seagal movies.

Good God, is that the only alternative in your world? Why not try
something that isn't marketed down your throat?
Maybe step off the well-worn action path and try something a little
more cerebral, a little more brain-intensive.
But if you really must go the action path, try The Professional,
Nikita, Hard Boiled, Dobermann, Fist Of Legend, The Killer, U-Turn,
Kiss Or Kill, Bullet In The Head, Lock Stock and Two Smoking
Barrels...
You might have to read subtitles on some of them, and you might not
get to see Nic Cage in a starring role (some would say that's a
blessing) but at least you'll see something worth spending two hours
of your life on.

BTW: Austin Powers 2 is better than the first. Just saw it and I
strongly advise anyone who enjoyed the original to go see this in
Star Wars-like numbers. All hail Dr Evil.

    ----------------- {{{OZ}}} -------------------
    ------- http://www.filmink-online.com --------
    ----------------------------------------------

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 09:20:17 -0500
From: "Tonya =)" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [MV] Re: millennial film fest

- ----------
From: David F. Nolan <[e-mail]>

>Anyone have any other suggestions for an end of the
>year/decade/century/millennium film fest??


I think these would be good:

Romeo & Juliet (1968)
Romeo & Juliet (1996)
My Girl
All the Psychos
All the Nightmare on Elm Streets
All the Friday the 13ths


Tonya
_____________
"If you want to make enemies, try to change something."
- --Woodrow Wilson

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 07:36:36 +0000
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: [MV] Re: Realy, really, really bad movies

I have to take exception to this list of supposedly cerebral action flicks.
The Professional, Hard Boiled, U-turn...how can you even begin to consider
these as anything more than the action flicks that they were marketed as
(and by the way they were marketed to the same audience as matrix)?
Especially U-Turn.  As much as I anticipated this film it was nothing more
than a recycling of better b movies from the past.  Even the ending was
lifted directly from a cable movie.

Please, if you are going to present a list of action films that rise above
the pack, make a better effort.

bb
- --


- ----------
>From: Oz <[e-mail]>
>To: [e-mail]
>Subject: Re: [MV] Re: Realy, really, really bad movies
>Date: Thu, Jun 10, 1999, 5:34 AM
>

> "Blacknight " wrote:
>>
>> Please do not call me a moron!!! I enjoyed Face/Off very much, for me it was
a
>> very refreshing action movie. I would never trade it for the usual formulaic
>> Van Damme or Seagal movies.
>
> Good God, is that the only alternative in your world? Why not try
> something that isn't marketed down your throat?
> Maybe step off the well-worn action path and try something a little
> more cerebral, a little more brain-intensive.
> But if you really must go the action path, try The Professional,
> Nikita, Hard Boiled, Dobermann, Fist Of Legend, The Killer, U-Turn,
> Kiss Or Kill, Bullet In The Head, Lock Stock and Two Smoking
> Barrels...
> You might have to read subtitles on some of them, and you might not
> get to see Nic Cage in a starring role (some would say that's a
> blessing) but at least you'll see something worth spending two hours
> of your life on.
>
> BTW: Austin Powers 2 is better than the first. Just saw it and I
> strongly advise anyone who enjoyed the original to go see this in
> Star Wars-like numbers. All hail Dr Evil.
>
>     ----------------- {{{OZ}}} -------------------
>     ------- http://www.filmink-online.com --------
>     ----------------------------------------------
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Want to earn money on your website?  How does 17c a click sound?
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> http://www.valueclick.com/cgi-bin/refer_host_signup?host=h0032965
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> [ To leave the movies mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ]
> [ movies" (without the quotes) to [e-mail]          ]
>

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 00:41:03 -0700
From: Oz <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [MV] Re: Realy, really, really bad movies

[e-mail] wrote:
>
> I have to take exception to this list of supposedly cerebral action flicks.
> The Professional, Hard Boiled, U-turn...how can you even begin to consider
> these as anything more than the action flicks that they were marketed as
> (and by the way they were marketed to the same audience as matrix)?

Two things. Firstly, i never said they were "cerebral action
flicks", I suggested said person take in something a bit more
cerebral than mindless action, but if he insisted on doing the
action thang he could do worse than that list.

Secondly... are you high? The Professional is not only a fine action
movie, but one of the finer movies I've had the pleasure of seeing
in my time. Portman is amazing for one so young, Jean Reno never
disaappoints, Luc Besson's direction was at a peak, and apart from
an over the top Gary Oldman, the damn thing was believable. An
action film that requires no suspension of disbelief is a rare
thing.
Hard Boiled requires a healthy dose, but is a non-stop ride from
start to finish, that leaves the Van Damme/Seagal stinkers looking
like Bambi in comparison.
And U-Turn, well I'm the first to admit U-Turn had it's problems,
not least of which is a self-obsessed director who feels the need to
draw attention to himself with every shot and cut, but it's a damn
sight more interesting than Face/Off, which has so many
plotholes/terrible lines of dialogue/instances of overacting/booms
in shot that it had me giggling throughout.

> Please, if you are going to present a list of action films that rise above
> the pack, make a better effort.

Gee Bruce, is seven out of ten such a bad effort? I didn't see any
criticism about Nikita, Dobermann, Fist Of Legend, The Killer, Kiss
Or Kill, Bullet In The Head, or Lock Stock and Two Smoking
Barrels...

Or maybe you've not seen them to comment?

Gee Bruce, if you're going to question my research, you might want
to do some yourself.

    ----------------- {{{OZ}}} -------------------
    ------- http://www.filmink-online.com --------
    ----------------------------------------------

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Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 11:50:06 -0500
From: Wade Snider <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Re: [MV] Re: Realy, really, really bad movies

> >"Blacknight " wrote:
> > >
> > > Please do not call me a moron!!! I enjoyed Face/Off very much, for me
> it
> >was a
> > > very refreshing action movie. I would never trade it for the usual
> >formulaic
> > > Van Damme or Seagal movies.
> >
> >Good God, is that the only alternative in your world? Why not try
> >something that isn't marketed down your throat?
> >Maybe step off the well-worn action path and try something a little
> >more cerebral, a little more brain-intensive.
>
    Sheesh, did he say that was his only alternative? He just claims
that he enjoyed it and liked it better than a lot of the typical crap that
comes out today. I personally agree with that. He didn't mention any of the
action flicks you mention, so how do you know he hasn't seen those. He
hasn't made himself completely clear on that, but he should at least have
the chance to do so before being berated for liking something you don't.

    Face/Off is certainly better than a lot of the cookie cutouts we get
today in the action genre. There are virtually no action movies today that
are in some way not derivative of other action flicks in some fashion. I
enjoyed Face/Off, and I am not a moron. just because someone likes a movie,
it doesn't mean that it had anything to do with it being marketed doen
his/her throat.


> >But if you really must go the action path, try The Professional,
> >Nikita, Hard Boiled, Dobermann, Fist Of Legend, The Killer, U-Turn,
> >Kiss Or Kill, Bullet In The Head, Lock Stock and Two Smoking
> >Barrels...
>
    Of these, I have only not see Dobermann, Kiss or Kill, and LS2S.
U-Turn is not really an action flick. It is more a spoof on the femme fetale
- - murder - suspense thrillers. It is a complete waste of time, and it is
hardly better than any of these movies, including Face/Off. It is boring,
unoriginal, and pretentious. Aside from some of the obvious moments, it is
hardly well received by even a cerebral audience. And with the exception of
femme nikita and the killer, none of those action flicks I have seen are
necessarily that much better than anything else. They are all very good,
better than Face/Off, but they are not wholly original themselves, hardly
stepping off the well-worn action path.....

    Wade



"42.7 percent of all statistics are made up on the spot."

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Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 11:52:46 -0500
From: Wade Snider <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Re: [MV] Re: Realy, really, really bad movies

> >I have to take exception to this list of supposedly cerebral action
> flicks.
> >The Professional, Hard Boiled, U-turn...how can you even begin to
> consider
> >these as anything more than the action flicks that they were marketed as
> >(and by the way they were marketed to the same audience as matrix)?
>
    I would hardly they were marketed to the same audience as Hard
Boiled? I don't even think that was released generally in the US, except on
video. I have never seen any marketing for it.


> >Especially U-Turn.  As much as I anticipated this film it was nothing
> more
> >than a recycling of better b movies from the past.  Even the ending was
> >lifted directly from a cable movie.
>
    Completely true! i kind of think that was Stone's point, but that is
debatable...

> >Please, if you are going to present a list of action films that rise
> above
> >the pack, make a better effort.
>
    Hey, those are pretty good flicks (except for UTurn I would
agree)...

    Wade

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Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 13:42:46 -0400
From: Mel Eperthener <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [MV] Re: Realy, really, really bad movies

At 07.36 AM 09/06/99 +0000, [e-mail] wrote:
>I have to take exception to this list of supposedly cerebral action flicks.
>The Professional, Hard Boiled, U-turn...how can you even begin to consider
>these as anything more than the action flicks that they were marketed as
>(and by the way they were marketed to the same audience as matrix)?
>Especially U-Turn.  As much as I anticipated this film it was nothing more
>than a recycling of better b movies from the past.  Even the ending was
>lifted directly from a cable movie.

(Never thought that I would find myself in the position of defending Oz:-)

I do agree with U-Turn.  That and Palmetto (and there was one other that
came out about the same time on video) were basically the same old same old.

However Professional, and before that Nikita were simply brilliant.  I
challenge you to watch Nikita followed by the tripe called Point of No
Return, which is basically a scene for scene remake of Nikita (if they were
so concerned about the American inability to handle subtitles, they could
have hired dubbers for a fraction of the cost).  I did, and was truly
amazed by how different the films could be.  Made me a big fan of Luc Besson.

As for Hard Boiled et al, yes now they are very cliched, and this can
distract from the movies.  However, when they were made, they *created*
those cliches.  Like the original Star Wars, they set the standards for
everything that followed (gun battles, mexican standoffs, etc) to the point
that their originality can no longer be appreciated.  John Woo raised the
bar, and just like Lucas when better things are now expected of him, he is
hard pressed to appear as brilliant as he once seemed.

And finally, as for Matrix (which I have not yet seen, but have noticed a
LOT of positive reviews) for being a movie based on a video game, if the
person that stated that believes that, then I doubt that they have seen any
of the wonderful cinematic masterpieces such as Street Fighter, Mortal
Kombat, Wing Commander, Super Mario Bros, etc.  I find it hard to believe
that Matrix is worse than this sorry lot.

Regards,

- --Mel


- --Mel Eperthener
president, Gowanna Multi-media Pty

Please support the endeavour
of a friend and fellow Australian.

Political Corrections by Michael Jaymes Cassidy
http://www.angelfire.com/ma/politicalmusings

____________________________________________
        If people are worried about the whole Y2K thing,
           just wait until they try to get technical
            support the day "Phantom Menace" opens.
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Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 13:31:41 -0500
From: Diane Christy <[e-mail]>
Subject: [MV] OT: posting with respect

Sorry for this post as it is not specifically about movies, but I have
noticed lately that the posting going on is not very nice.  Maybe it's been
like this and I've just never noticed it or never been bothered by it.  But
it's starting to get to me and I just wanted to say something about it.  I
know it's easy to say almost anything in an e-mail because there's no
physical contact with anyone.  It's easy for things to be taken the wrong
way because we don't have tone of voice in e-mail.  This post is not
directed to things like that.  It IS directed to those who purposefully
call other members of the group names because they have differing opinions.
Why do we have to be rude?  With no difference of opinion this list (and
the world) would be an awfully boring place (even though sometimes we know
everything would just be BETTER if things would just go MY WAY!!!!!!).  :-)

I fear I'm starting to sound preachy and I really don't want to do that so
I'll end this by saying that I enjoy this list.  I enjoy everyone's
contribution to this list.  My wish is that we appreciate each other and
recognize that we are all different.  That's all.
~~~~~
Diane Christy (Samantha and Joshua's Mom)
Jefferson, LA
http://www.geocities.com/~dchristy10/
mailto:[e-mail]
ICQ #12904700  <dkbc10> on Instant Messenger
~~~~~

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Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 13:41:00 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: [MV] Re: Realy, really, really bad movies

At 01:42 PM 6/9/99 -0400, Mel Eperthener wrote:
>I do agree with U-Turn.  That and Palmetto (and there was one other that
>came out about the same time on video) were basically the same old same old.

i found "u-turn" to be fairly amusing through its first half (except for
the typical oliver stone garbage thrown in - funny camera shots, inverted
colours, etc.). but it just turned to complete worthless garbage in the
second half (when the caper finally kicked in).  so overall, a pretty bad
movie, i agree.  i havent seen "palmetto", but it sure looked like crap.

>However Professional, and before that Nikita were simply brilliant.  I
>challenge you to watch Nikita followed by the tripe called Point of No
>Return, which is basically a scene for scene remake of Nikita (if they were
>so concerned about the American inability to handle subtitles, they could
>have hired dubbers for a fraction of the cost).  I did, and was truly
>amazed by how different the films could be.  Made me a big fan of Luc Besson.

i have to agree with all the "leon" folks here that it was a spectacular
movie.  natalie portman and jean reno were both very good in their roles,
and i didnt have a problem with gary oldman - i thought he was very good as
well.  i do not consider "leon" to be an action film at all - i consider it
a drama, and a very well done one at that.  has anyone else who has seen it
and liked it ever noticed the possibility that leon actually falls in love
with mathilda?  of course, it would seem through that movie that he's a
father-figure, but ever since i first saw it, i've always thought he seemed
to actually love her as a woman.  this of course means nothing to those who
havent seen the movie, and hopefully it wont ruin anything for those of you
who run out to see it now.  (btw, "leon" is the original french title for
"the professional")

"la femma nikita", on the other hand, i wasnt so impressed with.  while it
is a fairly good movie, i've always thought of it as a bit overrated - it
just didnt grab me like "leon" did.  and as for "point of no return" -
whew.  i definitely agree that it is a rip-off of nikita, and an absolutely
atrocious one at that.  avoid "point of no return" like the plague, unless
you want to see how bad most american directors are compared to some select
foreign ones (ie. kurosawa, egoyan, besson)

"the fifth element" was somewhat of a disappointment for me, although i did
enjoy it.  since besson wrote it in the 7th grade (and it would seem he for
the most part stuck to what he originally wrote), you shouldnt expect
something spectacular - and it sure isnt.  but its an overall not-too-bad
movie.

since i've been rambling on here about my movie opinions, i've got a list
of the movies i like up on my homepage, so if anyone would like to peruse
and comment (on the list as appropriate or privately):

http://walden.mvp.net/~torq/movies.html


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Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 13:43:35 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: [MV] OT: posting with respect

At 01:31 PM 6/9/99 -0500, Diane Christy wrote:
>Sorry for this post as it is not specifically about movies, but I have
>noticed lately that the posting going on is not very nice.  Maybe it's been
>like this and I've just never noticed it or never been bothered by it.  But
>it's starting to get to me and I just wanted to say something about it.  I
>know it's easy to say almost anything in an e-mail because there's no
>physical contact with anyone.  It's easy for things to be taken the wrong
>way because we don't have tone of voice in e-mail.  This post is not
>directed to things like that.  It IS directed to those who purposefully

i'm guessing that this was sparked by my recent comment about "the world's
morons".  by saying that, i wasnt specifically talking about anyone on the
list (except by generalization, by referring to those who liked
"armageddon" or "titanic").  i'm sorry, but i'm just a rather cynical
person about the majority of society, and i think that the films that one
enjoys is something of an indication of the
insightfulness/intelligence/overall worth of a person.  so i'm distressed
to see people who can actually enjoy films like "titanic".


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Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 13:43:35 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: [MV] OT: posting with respect

At 01:31 PM 6/9/99 -0500, Diane Christy wrote:
>Sorry for this post as it is not specifically about movies, but I have
>noticed lately that the posting going on is not very nice.  Maybe it's been
>like this and I've just never noticed it or never been bothered by it.  But
>it's starting to get to me and I just wanted to say something about it.  I
>know it's easy to say almost anything in an e-mail because there's no
>physical contact with anyone.  It's easy for things to be taken the wrong
>way because we don't have tone of voice in e-mail.  This post is not
>directed to things like that.  It IS directed to those who purposefully

i'm guessing that this was sparked by my recent comment about "the world's
morons".  by saying that, i wasnt specifically talking about anyone on the
list (except by generalization, by referring to those who liked
"armageddon" or "titanic").  i'm sorry, but i'm just a rather cynical
person about the majority of society, and i think that the films that one
enjoys is something of an indication of the
insightfulness/intelligence/overall worth of a person.  so i'm distressed
to see people who can actually enjoy films like "titanic".


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Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 13:40:54 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: [MV] Rudeness

I agree in regards to the rudeness. It seems most lists have a few folks who
resort to those tactics.
As JAR JAR BINKS would say:
How wude!

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Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 04:58:57 -0700
From: Oz <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [MV] OT: posting with respect

Diane Christy wrote:
>
> My wish is that we appreciate each other and
> recognize that we are all different.  That's all.

My wish is that people who call themselves movie fans, just one time
in five trips to the cinema, go and see something they've never
heard of instead of whatever new Nic Coppola movie is out this week.
I always get kinda outraged when I go see a big name, big budget
movie that's just obviously a way to rip seven bucks out of me, but
then when I hear others say "well, it was better than lots of stuff
I've seen" I start to wonder if the battle isn't already long over.
Same when I avoid a movie because it's had horrific reviews in all
the press, but somehow it still pulls in $40m in a weekend from
people who either don't read reviews before seeing a movie, or just
don't care. When I see great talent like Rebecca Pidgeon or Sam
Rockwell go unnoticed and unemployed while hacks like David
Schwimmer and Jennifer Love Hewitt get role after role, it just
makes no sense.
It seems that mediocrity is acceptable, and it never should be.
Eating dirt is a lot better than eating snot, but it sure as hell
isn't the optimal recreational activity, if you know what I mean.
If just one person on this list goes out and rents The Professional,
or hunts down Lock Stock and Two Smoking Barrels, or somehow manages
to get a look at Kiss Or Kill, instead of spending their hard-earned
on dross like Instinct, then I'll be a happy chappy.
As part of my job I get to see just about every minor release out
there, and so many of them are just great films, but sadly most of
you will never ever get the chance to enjoy them because the likes
of Face/Off fill your local screens.
And so long as the likes of Face/Off are not only selling tickets,
but also only have to outdo Van Damme to be considered "very good",
that situation will not change.
That, to me, is grounds for a bit of foot-stomping.

Do yourself a favor. See something you've never heard of. Go see
Buena Vista Social Club, or Limbo, or The Castle or Lock Stock at
the cinema this weekend. Rent the collective works of David Mamet or
Luc Besson or Akira Kurosawa. When the US remake of Les Visiteurs is
released, avoid it and instead rent the undoubtedly better French
original. Ask your video clerk for Cinema Paradiso, Betty Blue, Man
Bites Dog and American History X. And for crying out loud, go see
Life Is Beautiful in a theatre, don't wait for the
soon-to-be-rereleased dubbed version.

My rant is done. Fade to black.

    ----------------- {{{OZ}}} -------------------
    ------- http://www.filmink-online.com --------
    ----------------------------------------------

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Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 05:10:19 -0700
From: Oz <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [MV] Re: Realy, really, really bad movies

[e-mail] wrote:
>
> Re: Leon - of course, it would seem through that movie that he's a
> father-figure, but ever since i first saw it, i've always thought he seemed
> to actually love her as a woman.

I think you're close to it there, but not quite on target. He
doesn't love her as a woman, he himself loves as a young boy. Leon's
not quite the full hamper, not exactly Mr Maturity, so with Mathilda
being older than her years and he being younger, you have a
situation that makes most twist uncomfortably in their seat
expecting tackiness.

Another film that covers much the same ground is Lawn Dogs. I can't
state emphatically enough how beautiful a film this is. If you ever,
ever see it on a shelf, rent it. I'll never know how it wasn't given
a bigger push when released.

> since i've been rambling on here about my movie opinions, i've got a list
> of the movies i like up on my homepage, so if anyone would like to peruse
> and comment (on the list as appropriate or privately):
>
> http://walden.mvp.net/~torq/movies.html

Great selection. If I hadn't seen most of them I'd be rushing to the
video store with a long list right about now.

    ----------------- {{{OZ}}} -------------------
    ------- http://www.filmink-online.com --------
    ----------------------------------------------

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Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 14:29:27 -0500
From: "Kelly White" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [MV] OT: posting with respect

Kudos to you Diane!!!  I agree.


- -----Original Message-----
From: Oz <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Wednesday, June 09, 1999 2:03 PM
Subject: Re: [MV] OT: posting with respect


|Diane Christy wrote:
|>
|> My wish is that we appreciate each other and
|> recognize that we are all different.  That's all.
|
|My wish is that people who call themselves movie fans, just one time
|in five trips to the cinema, go and see something they've never
|heard of instead of whatever new Nic Coppola movie is out this week.
|I always get kinda outraged when I go see a big name, big budget
|movie that's just obviously a way to rip seven bucks out of me, but
|then when I hear others say "well, it was better than lots of stuff
|I've seen" I start to wonder if the battle isn't already long over.
|Same when I avoid a movie because it's had horrific reviews in all
|the press, but somehow it still pulls in $40m in a weekend from
|people who either don't read reviews before seeing a movie, or just
|don't care. When I see great talent like Rebecca Pidgeon or Sam
|Rockwell go unnoticed and unemployed while hacks like David
|Schwimmer and Jennifer Love Hewitt get role after role, it just
|makes no sense.
|It seems that mediocrity is acceptable, and it never should be.
|Eating dirt is a lot better than eating snot, but it sure as hell
|isn't the optimal recreational activity, if you know what I mean.
|If just one person on this list goes out and rents The Professional,
|or hunts down Lock Stock and Two Smoking Barrels, or somehow manages
|to get a look at Kiss Or Kill, instead of spending their hard-earned
|on dross like Instinct, then I'll be a happy chappy.
|As part of my job I get to see just about every minor release out
|there, and so many of them are just great films, but sadly most of
|you will never ever get the chance to enjoy them because the likes
|of Face/Off fill your local screens.
|And so long as the likes of Face/Off are not only selling tickets,
|but also only have to outdo Van Damme to be considered "very good",
|that situation will not change.
|That, to me, is grounds for a bit of foot-stomping.
|
|Do yourself a favor. See something you've never heard of. Go see
|Buena Vista Social Club, or Limbo, or The Castle or Lock Stock at
|the cinema this weekend. Rent the collective works of David Mamet or
|Luc Besson or Akira Kurosawa. When the US remake of Les Visiteurs is
|released, avoid it and instead rent the undoubtedly better French
|original. Ask your video clerk for Cinema Paradiso, Betty Blue, Man
|Bites Dog and American History X. And for crying out loud, go see
|Life Is Beautiful in a theatre, don't wait for the
|soon-to-be-rereleased dubbed version.
|
|My rant is done. Fade to black.
|
|    ----------------- {{{OZ}}} -------------------
|    ------- http://www.filmink-online.com --------
|    ----------------------------------------------
|
|----------------------------------------------------------------
|Want to earn money on your website?  How does 17c a click sound?
|----------------------------------------------------------------
|http://www.valueclick.com/cgi-bin/refer_host_signup?host=h0032965
|----------------------------------------------------------------
|
|[ To leave the movies mailing list, send the message "unsubscribe ]
|[ movies" (without the quotes) to [e-mail]          ]



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