Since Moby sometimes reads the more controversial stuff on this list, do we
not think it's clever not to start making presumptions and assumptions we
know nothing about?
I regard selling out as when you begin to change the content of the music to
increase sales become more platable. As we all know, nothing moby has
recorded could fit into these category.
Friendships, start, evolve, change, and eventually end. I have people who
have thought were friends not talk top me as a result of some alleged
percieved success, wo nthey can't really ahve been friends anyway. Maybe
this is whgat happened. I'm n ot sure, and I don't want to know.
All I will say, is for Gods sake, stop beinga Road Dog, get off tour NOW,
and make some more music. I'm bored of Play,because I've had it for 18
months now.
And everytime I leave the house I hear Natural Blues.
M
"Gonna shut down the Shakur, shift Shiva off my shelf, take down my tie
dyes, my jangling bells, cool down my Karma with EST, because there's one
thing I know. I Ain't Going To Goa."
The Very Reverend Dr D Wayne Love (First Minister Of The First Presleytarian
Church Of Elvis The Divine UK)
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Michael Bourke" <cbourke1@bigred.unl.edu>
To: <mobility@lists.xmission.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2001 8:07 AM
Subject: Re: (mobility) moby the sell out?
>
> > so why the hell does mark think moby's sold out?
> > he screwed over one of his best friends and may of thrown away a ~20
year
> > relationship. he's changed in bad ways, and seems to of lost some of his
>
> How is a personal friendship even in anyway related to "selling out"?
> Sometimes people just grow apart, perhaps this "friend" of his turned into
> an asshole. There could be a million fucking reasons why they "broke up",
> but none of them lead to "selling out".
>
> Look people, if you don't like Moby anymore, quit this fucking list, stop
> listening to his music, or just don't bring your bitching here for the
rest
> of us to read. Better yet, next time someone else posts crap like this,
> please, everyone just ignore it and it will go away.
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Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 06:28:44 EST
From: Bijou75@aol.com
Subject: Re: (mobility) moby the sell out?
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First, allow me to dispense with the standard disclaimer and say that the
following is just my opinion; I have no illusions about its "correctness,"
nor do I intend to lord it over anyone else, especially being such a newbie.
But for what it's worth (which is approximately $.02, give or take two
cents), here is my take on things:
Personally I don't think it's right to judge or label someone, especially a
person whom most of us have never had the pleasure of knowing. It's
impossible for any of us to say what we'd do were we in Moby's shoes, or for
that matter even to determine what he knew about his music's licensing and
when he knew it. And that's not to mention his motivation.. philosophically
who among us really understands our own motivations most of the time, much
less anyone else's? Not long ago I would've condemned any artist who allowed
his or her work to be used for any commercial purpose, unless it were in an
advertisement for charity. But these days, with a little more experience,
I'm far less absolutist in my thinking, and slightly more practical.
There's an article in the new edition of Entertainment Weekly that addresses
this issue, and cites Moby specifically as an example. It makes the point,
as many of you have, that having work featured in an ad can give an artist a
second chance at recognition they might otherwise have missed out on. I am
reminded of "Harry's Game," by Clannad; years later I can't remember what car
company used that song in its advertisement, but I do remember the song
vividly-- it contributed greatly to my discovery of Celtic music as a whole.
I enjoy it still today with the knowledge I never would've known it existed
were it not for that ad.
An anecdote to illustrate my point... a while back, in the midst of a boring
afternoon of television with the folks, the Tiger Woods Nike ad featuring
"Find My Baby" came on; immediately my dad's ears pricked up and he said,
"That's a good song!" So I played the entire tune for him, along with
several others from Play, all of which he greatly enjoyed. Now an elitist
might decry the "coolness" of any work a 60-year-old man digs, but to me it
speaks to the universality and accessibility of Moby's music. And it's one
of the few things my dad and I agree on.
Now about Paul's original issue as to the ethics of allowing one's music to
be used by companies whose activities violate one's stated principles...
well, that's a bit trickier. The primary questions it raises are: a) Was
Moby aware his music was being used; b) Was he aware of those companies'
practices; and c) What did he do with the money-- did he in fact donate it to
animal charities? To be honest, I'm a little uncomfortable with asking those
questions, as I'm not sure they're anyone's business but Moby's. I'm sure if
our decisions were analyzed under the same harsh light, in many instances
we'd all look like hypocrites, or worse. Is it right to hold Moby to a
higher standard than that to which we hold ourselves? I'm certain many would
respond that by so boldly proclaiming his beliefs, Moby opened himself up to
such criticism, but... does that give us the right to judge? Personally I'm
glad someone out there is exposing the public to issues and viewpoints they
might not otherwise have even considered. So does that outweigh the
potential damage done to the animal rights cause by companies like Calvin
Klein and Nordstrom? Or, more specifically, does it outweigh the potential
damage done by the use of Moby's songs and likeness by those companies? To
me that's the fundamental issue here.. not whether the man uses fingernail
polish tested on bunnies or has the floors of his apartment covered with
furs. That's his business, not mine.
As for Mark's assertion that Moby "screwed over one of his best friends and
may of thrown away a ~20 year relationship. he's changed in bad ways, and
seems to of lost some of his personal morals."-- I assume he's referring to
Moby's falling-out with Paul Yates? Well, it seems to me that when
friendships end, often the two people involved have widely divergent views on
the cause of the relationship's demise; and if they can't reach a consensus,
how can we ever know who's to blame? As the old saying goes, "it takes two
to tango." Besides, what business is it of ours? Certainly it's not our
role to assign blame or responsibility when a) we weren't involved, and b)
most of us are strangers to both parties. And unless this friendship relates
somehow to the business end of music, I don't see what it has to do with
whether or not Moby is a sellout.
The reference to Moby's "personal morals" is a little troubling to me. By
this you seem to imply you have some firsthand knowledge of his private life.
I'm hoping you're not basing this remark on gossip, and further I really
hope you're not trying to tantalize us into begging you to reveal information
that should remain private. If you're referring to sex, however, I would
direct you to a chat that occurred on SonicNet several years ago in which
Moby called himself "a ho"; while this may seem incongruous with his public
declarations of his love for Christ, further investigation reveals Moby has
often stated that while he loves Jesus, he does not espouse a "Christian"
lifestyle. So I don't see any hypocrisy there.
But regardless... I feel dirty even having broached that particular aspect of
the topic. It seems unfortunate to me that some can't separate the beauty
and genius of a work of art from the personality that created it. As perfect
as a song or an album may seem, it's not fair to expect the artist to be
flawless too. I'd like to think that the music is what will survive long
after we're dead... not the indecent dissection of matters which are none of
our business. Entertainers are people, flawed human beings like the rest of
us who happen to possess certain talents society values; they're not gods,
and we shouldn't expect them to be. It's part of the cult of celebrity that
exists today, but ask yourself this-- do you really wanna contribute to it?
Very few of us would answer "yes," yet most of us derive a certain fiendish
pleasure from the exploitation of celebrities' personal lives. So what does
that make us?
Again, just my (lengthy) $.02... no offense intended.
- --Carrie the hypocrite
- --part1_96.e60f15e.27885b6c_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>First, allow me to dispense with the standard disclaimer and say that the <BR>following is just my opinion; I have no illusions about its "correctness," <BR>nor do I intend to lord it over anyone else, especially being such a newbie. <BR>But for what it's worth (which is approximately $.02, give or take two <BR>cents), here is my take on things:
<BR>
<BR>Personally I don't think it's right to judge or label someone, especially a <BR>person whom most of us have never had the pleasure of knowing. It's <BR>impossible for any of us to say what we'd do were we in Moby's shoes, or for <BR>that matter even to determine what he knew about his music's licensing and <BR>when he knew it. And that's not to mention his motivation.. philosophically <BR>who among us really understands our own motivations most of the time, much <BR>less anyone else's? Not long ago I would've condemned any artist who allowed <BR>his or her work to be used for any commercial purpose, unless it were in an <BR>advertisement for charity. But these days, with a little more experience, <BR>I'm far less absolutist in my thinking, and slightly more practical.
<BR>
<BR>There's an article in the new edition of Entertainment Weekly that addresses <BR>this issue, and cites Moby specifically as an example. It makes the point, <BR>as many of you have, that having work featured in an ad can give an artist a <BR>second chance at recognition they might otherwise have missed out on. I am <BR>reminded of "Harry's Game," by Clannad; years later I can't remember what car <BR>company used that song in its advertisement, but I do remember the song <BR>vividly-- it contributed greatly to my discovery of Celtic music as a whole. <BR>I enjoy it still today with the knowledge I never would've known it existed <BR>were it not for that ad.
<BR>
<BR>An anecdote to illustrate my point... a while back, in the midst of a boring <BR>afternoon of television with the folks, the Tiger Woods Nike ad featuring <BR>"Find My Baby" came on; immediately my dad's ears pricked up and he said, <BR>"That's a good song!" So I played the entire tune for him, along with <BR>several others from Play, all of which he greatly enjoyed. Now an elitist <BR>might decry the "coolness" of any work a 60-year-old man digs, but to me it <BR>speaks to the universality and accessibility of Moby's music. And it's one <BR>of the few things my dad and I agree on.
<BR>
<BR>Now about Paul's original issue as to the ethics of allowing one's music to <BR>be used by companies whose activities violate one's stated principles... <BR>well, that's a bit trickier. The primary questions it raises are: a) Was <BR>Moby aware his music was being used; b) Was he aware of those companies' <BR>practices; and c) What did he do with the money-- did he in fact donate it to <BR>animal charities? To be honest, I'm a little uncomfortable with asking those <BR>questions, as I'm not sure they're anyone's business but Moby's. I'm sure if <BR>our decisions were analyzed under the same harsh light, in many instances <BR>we'd all look like hypocrites, or worse. Is it right to hold Moby to a <BR>higher standard than that to which we hold ourselves? I'm certain many would <BR>respond that by so boldly proclaiming his beliefs, Moby opened himself up to <BR>such criticism, but... does that give us the right to judge? Personally I'm <BR>g!
lad someone out there is exposing the public to issues and viewpoints they <BR>might not otherwise have even considered. So does that outweigh the <BR>potential damage done to the animal rights cause by companies like Calvin <BR>Klein and Nordstrom? Or, more specifically, does it outweigh the potential <BR>damage done by the use of Moby's songs and likeness by those companies? To <BR>me that's the fundamental issue here.. not whether the man uses fingernail <BR>polish tested on bunnies or has the floors of his apartment covered with <BR>furs. That's his business, not mine.
<BR>
<BR>As for Mark's assertion that Moby "screwed over one of his best friends and <BR>may of thrown away a ~20 year relationship. he's changed in bad ways, and <BR>seems to of lost some of his personal morals."-- I assume he's referring to <BR>Moby's falling-out with Paul Yates? Well, it seems to me that when <BR>friendships end, often the two people involved have widely divergent views on <BR>the cause of the relationship's demise; and if they can't reach a consensus, <BR>how can we ever know who's to blame? As the old saying goes, "it takes two <BR>to tango." Besides, what business is it of ours? Certainly it's not our <BR>role to assign blame or responsibility when a) we weren't involved, and b) <BR>most of us are strangers to both parties. And unless this friendship relates <BR>somehow to the business end of music, I don't see what it has to do with <BR>whether or not Moby is a sellout.
<BR>
<BR>The reference to Moby's "personal morals" is a little troubling to me. By <BR>this you seem to imply you have some firsthand knowledge of his private life. <BR> I'm hoping you're not basing this remark on gossip, and further I really <BR>hope you're not trying to tantalize us into begging you to reveal information <BR>that should remain private. If you're referring to sex, however, I would <BR>direct you to a chat that occurred on SonicNet several years ago in which <BR>Moby called himself "a ho"; while this may seem incongruous with his public <BR>declarations of his love for Christ, further investigation reveals Moby has <BR>often stated that while he loves Jesus, he does not espouse a "Christian" <BR>lifestyle. So I don't see any hypocrisy there.
<BR>
<BR>But regardless... I feel dirty even having broached that particular aspect of <BR>the topic. It seems unfortunate to me that some can't separate the beauty <BR>and genius of a work of art from the personality that created it. As perfect <BR>as a song or an album may seem, it's not fair to expect the artist to be <BR>flawless too. I'd like to think that the music is what will survive long <BR>after we're dead... not the indecent dissection of matters which are none of <BR>our business. Entertainers are people, flawed human beings like the rest of <BR>us who happen to possess certain talents society values; they're not gods, <BR>and we shouldn't expect them to be. It's part of the cult of celebrity that <BR>exists today, but ask yourself this-- do you really wanna contribute to it? <BR>Very few of us would answer "yes," yet most of us derive a certain fiendish <BR>pleasure from the exploitation of celebrities' personal lives. So what!
does <BR>that make us?
<BR>
<BR>Again, just my (lengthy) $.02... no offense intended.
<BR>
<BR>--Carrie the hypocrite</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 06:40:39 EST
From: Bijou75@aol.com
Subject: (mobility) Cute
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Okay, one more (short) post and then I'll shut up, I promise.
Tonight while rotting my brain away in front of the tv, I came across a
program on VH-1 called "Don't Quote Me." As they were going to commercial,
they displayed a quote from an unnamed artist regarding all the crappy jobs
he held while working to make it as a musician, and the viewer was given
three choices as to the source of the quote-- Kid Rock, Moby, or Mark McGrath
of Sugar Ray. The use of the word "airless," being rather literate, led me
to suspect the correct answer was Moby, and sure enough-- ding ding ding-- I
was right. They then showed a snippet of an interview with him in which he
decribed various McJobs he's had-- mail inserter (the opportunities for bad
puns that presents!), dishwasher at Macy's, lawn trimmer, etc. So the
voiceover guys asks something like, "So what's your background in music?"
Cut to Moby saying that when he was 10, he tried out for a choir and was one
of (he thought) two people to be rejected.
So I suppose the moral of the story is "If at first you don't succeed..." I
just thought it was cute... I apologize if it's been posted before.
- --Carrie
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>Okay, one more (short) post and then I'll shut up, I promise.
<BR>
<BR>Tonight while rotting my brain away in front of the tv, I came across a <BR>program on VH-1 called "Don't Quote Me." As they were going to commercial, <BR>they displayed a quote from an unnamed artist regarding all the crappy jobs <BR>he held while working to make it as a musician, and the viewer was given <BR>three choices as to the source of the quote-- Kid Rock, Moby, or Mark McGrath <BR>of Sugar Ray. The use of the word "airless," being rather literate, led me <BR>to suspect the correct answer was Moby, and sure enough-- ding ding ding-- I <BR>was right. They then showed a snippet of an interview with him in which he <BR>decribed various McJobs he's had-- mail inserter (the opportunities for bad <BR>puns that presents!), dishwasher at Macy's, lawn trimmer, etc. So the <BR>voiceover guys asks something like, "So what's your background in music?" <BR>Cut to Moby saying that when he was 10, he tried out for a choir and was one <BR>of (he thou!
ght) two people to be rejected.
<BR>
<BR>So I suppose the moral of the story is "If at first you don't succeed..." I <BR>just thought it was cute... I apologize if it's been posted before.
<BR>
<BR>--Carrie</FONT></HTML>
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