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mobility-digest       Saturday, August 12 2000       Volume 03 : Number 290



(mobility) Recreation
(mobility) and your drug of choice is....?
(mobility) introduce myself   ?  uh ok..
(mobility) ****OFF TOPIC
Re: (mobility) introduce myself   ?  uh ok..
Re: (mobility) introduce myself ? uh ok..
Re: (mobility) prince/EU/astral

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 04:42:59 GMT
From: "- Fabrizio Achille Polo -" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (mobility) Recreation

    My problem with the control of certain substances is the obvious
hippocracy.  Smoking is legal in theory, but "concerned mothers" (and other
mislead individuals) are doing everything in their power to make it all but
impossible.  Cigarettes are taxed at obscene rates, a minimum pricing has
been set up (at least in PA where I live), and now there will be control
over cigarette company advertising.  Simmilarly, it isn't a federal law that
controls drinking ages, it's state laws.  However, the government actively
extorts the states into adopting the standard 21 drinking age by depriving
them of much needed highway moneys.  This is absurd.  Either make it legal
or illegal but this is rediculous.  Because no one wants to take
responsibility for their own actions, we have adopted a culture of
victimhood, giving up our own rights wholesale, simply because we are lazy.
    As for currently illegal drug and their relation to legal drugs, there
is only one reason why alchohol and tobacco are legal:  everyone in
washington likes to drink scotch and smoke cigarres.  That's it.  If they
were really concerned with the intent of the constitution they would have
legalized recreational drugs a long time ago.  Not unlike the illegality of
suicide, the situation with recreational drugs seems to be one of perverse
jealousy.  I think people (subconsciously at least) think it's unfair to be
happy without having earned it.  Marijiuana for instance is not physically
addictive (unlike tobacco), and, while it does have carcenogens, doesn't
pose nearly the threat hazard when considering quantities smoked, is
illegal.  This makes no sense.  LSD isn't physically addictive either.
Other than flashbacks there are no negative side effects.  Yet, this drug is
illegal.  Even the argument of overdose is rediculous.  If you watch TV
there are drugs designed to reduce balding with more severe side effects
than pot.
    I really must credit my friend with the jealousy theory.  At first I
thought it sounded a bit silly, but then he posed this question.  "If a
recreational drug was found which had no negative side effects, and no
physical addictive properties, that made the user intensely happy for some
duration of time, would it be legalized?"  I think the answer is an
intuitive no.  Marijiuana and LSD are nearly such drugs and most of the
country cringes at the thought of their legalization.   I feel I can say
with absolute certainty, the do so not because of any understanding of
actual negative effects.  Dogma runs this country.  Move to the Netherlands.
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Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 06:00:45 GMT
From: "Sarah McMullan" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (mobility) and your drug of choice is....?

Hey,

Before I get stuck into this whole drug good/bad/otherwise debate, I never
did get answer - if "Next comes the E" wasn't about ectasy - what was it
referring to?


(This is long so consider yourself warned...)

As far as drugs go I tend to follow teh risk minimisation train of thought.
"Just say no" doesn't cut it. Drugs are avialable to younger and younger
kids all the time and unfortunately not all of them have the ability to
stand up to what may be percieved as peer pressure and say no.

The only real answer is risk minimisation. To make it as safe to take
whatever drug you choose (which I know sounds a bit fucked up since drugs
don't tend to be safe to begin with but stay with me.)

This mean information. Information freely available. From non biased sources
which when it comes to drugs tends to mean scientific and medical based
info.

The following info was all presented by the NZGovt Dept of Health/Ministry
of youth Affairs/Common Medical text book
/
Fact: Marijuana can cause similar illnesses to "normal" tobacco. Smoking
marijuana whilst preganant also increases your chances of having a smaller
than normal baby and also raises teh chances of abnormalities in your child.

Fact: Marijuana is often recommended as a form of pain relief - especially
for those suffering from severe musco/skeletal pain. In NZ marijuana is
illegal full stop.

(But when my Mum went into a spinal unit they did all tehy could to
encourage her to smoke occasionally (as in 2 or 3 times a week)because it
would be more effective and less intrusive* on her life than the chemical
pain medicines they could give her. She's trminally ill - her lif eisn't
that active anyway so intrusivness is all relevant really

Fact: Marijuana had been used within the last 2 weeks by 80% off all people
who commit suicide under teh age of 25 in NZ. (What does that mean - I don't
know but it's a statitistic from the Ministry of Health/Youth Affairs report
1999)

Fact: Ectasy works by releasing the serotonin in your brain which in turn
gives you that warm buzz.

Fact: Seratonin is the chemical responsible for regulating mood. People with
low seratonin levels tend to show signs of depression. Continuously low
levels of seratonin leads to clinical depression. Most anti depressants work
by inhibiting your bodies use of seratonin thus maintaining regular levels
thus evening out or improving your mood.

(Fact: No one knows what causes depression though seratonin links have been
proven. It is commonly accepted that anti depressants and therapy are teh
best way of managing depression)

Fact: If your brain releases all it's seratonin at once you will feel a buzz
followed by a "flat" or "down" period afterwards. This usually hits 12 - 24
hours after the seratonin release and can take around 48 hours to normalise.
(depending on teh preson).

Fact: Continuous over stimulation of the nerves that control seratonin
release can lead to permanent damage and may result in impaired seratonin
regulation. Studies have shown that this impaired function leans towards a
permanent decrease in function.

Time magazine had a particularly good story on ectasy a couple of months
back and FACE magazzine (UK) did a fantastic beginners guide to drug issue
last year, maybe teh year before where they went thru every recreational
drug you can think of and presented the pros and cons from both medical and
moral viewpoints.

To Laineys post...


"...I was once discussing different (illegal) drugs with a doctor,  and she
agreed with my comment that ecstasy itself was not harmful. Injuries related
to E come from combining it with other drugs (such as alocohol)..."

O. My. God. Hippocratic Oath anyone?

People who die from using ecstasy die from 1 of 2 reasons.

#1 - Overheating . Body core temperature rises beyond teh point the body can
function. This is not helped by teh fact that alot of people take e at
events where physical activity is usually pretty full on.

#2 - Brain swelling caused by overabsorption of fluid into the cells.
Changes in seratonin can cause a dry mouth. (It's a common side effect of
anti depressants)Most people know not to combine drugs or take alcohol too.
Often people stick to water which is great and teh recommended practise but
only when aware that too much water can cause the brain to swell. Seems teh
chemical balance of your body is off, cells don't know when they have
absorbed enough water and continue to keep taking it in to teh point they
literally burst. (Fact: Bursting cells are bad. Especially in your brain.)

"... If drugs such as ecstasy were legalized, the government could also
regulate it. (They regulate food to ensure safety; they could regulate some
drugs to make sure they weren't cut with anything else.) .."

In theory. But what about teh newdrugs that are popping up all over the
place. And the people that make for their friends? Or teh guys doing it
under teh table?

The reality is that a cowboy drug maker can do more serious damage than a
cowboy pie maker.
As for legalising it - drug classification of synthetic drugs is similar to
the leagl problems arising from genetically modified food. It's changing all
teh time. As far as I'm aware (well in my country anyway) the Govt can't
just pass a law that says "all pills that make you feel good and happy are
now legal". They need specifics. Ingredients. Quantities etc. Drugs by their
very nature lead to experimentation and change. The legislation could never
keep up.

"...I think that when today's children grow up, drugs will have become
more widespread and also more accepted...."

You're absolutely right. I just hope that they have the info they need about
what they're doing so they can make an informed choice. Wishful thinking in
a lot of cases I think....

I'm not anti drugs I just choose not to use. I've done my whole
experimentation thing - short of needles there isn't much I haven't tried
once but at the end of teh day I prefer to deal with life alive and fully
conscious, not in a pharmaceutically altered state however attractive that
may seem at the time.

I also know more about what teh drugs physically do to me and quite frankly
I don't like it. I don't want to fuck with a good thing. If I knew then what
I know now about some drugs - now ay ever would I have done them.

I'm also aware of teh psychological impact recreational drugs can have on
some people. I've seen some really cool people get really screwed up with
drugs. Some of them because of the purely addictive nature of some
substances, others because they have seen drugs as a means of dealing with
issues they had. The only thing is that doesn't work. You can run forever
but you'll never get away from yourself.


Sarah


Risk minimisation for people thinking of trying e...

* Don't mix with any other drug or alcohol
* Don't drink too much water - you will feel thirsty - chupa chups or other
lollypops are great cos they last a while and help stimulate saliva which in
turn moistens your mouth which in turn stops you feeling so thirsty.
* Be with someone who isn't doing anything. Make sure they know what you
have taken and that they keep an eye on you to make sure you don't drink too
much or not enough or that you're starting to dehydrate and overheat.
* If you have a history of depression or alcoholisim in your family think
twice - both conditions fuck with your seratonin levels and may make it
harder for your body to normalise after teh seratonin release.
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Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 01:53:06 PDT
From: "roy wilkie" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (mobility) introduce myself   ?  uh ok..

   (see below)

>As a new member of the list I'd love for you to introduce yourself >since
>it is a great way of letting the other members of the mailing list >know of
>your presence. Information you should include are:
>
>*  Name
>*  Age
>*  What is in your Moby collection
>*  Where you first heard Moby, and how much of a fan you are
>*  Other artists you like
>*  Any other interesting information you wish to share
>
>

I am Roy, 20 something, I have on CD Play, Everything is Wrong, Animal
Rights, Early Underground, I Like To Score. . but on MP3, almost everything,
bunch of bootleg stuff.

I first heard Moby at a 'rave' in the high desert north of LA.  Everybody
kind of took notice when he came out, turned into hundreds of hoving glow
sticks in the ampitheater.   He put on the best electronic live act I've
ever seen, complete with visuals like a giant walking insect guy on stilts.
Extremely high energy, great music.

I'm not the biggest fan but I like Moby a lot.   I also like acid
jazz/trip-hop, esp. Ninja Tune.. some jungle, some dancehall stuff.
Coltrane.  Lee Perry.

I'm making a pretty decent Moby fansite right now.  Its under const., but
here is the URL:

      http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/cargo/moby


hope ya dig it.



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Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 04:59:07 -0700
From: "Rob Skipworth" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (mobility) ****OFF TOPIC

> Drugs: Just because you (not directed towards anyone in particular) and/or
> your friends who use them may be "productive members of society" does not
> mean that all who use are...or even most...I know quite a few people who
use
> drugs (other than Alcohol or Tobacco)who  are not productive, and who are
> actually very insecure, and deliquent. Because you and your drug using
> friends are productive members of society is NOT a VALID argument for
> legalization.

I'm sorry that some people cannot help but abuse drugs.  I agree that there
are many people (unlike my friends) who can't lead normal lives and balance
a small recreational drug habit.  HOWEVER, the same can be said for alcohol.
I know, or rather knew, plenty of people who were "very insecure, and
deliquent" because of alcoholism.
     So if you say that drugs shouldn't be legalized because a portion of
the population cannot function with them, then your "blood thickening"
alcohol should most certainly be taken away from the public.  Countless
people are killed each year due to drunk driving alone, yet alcohol remains
popular (and LEGAL) in our culture.
Seems to be some kind of double standard.



>I would agree that Alcohol (especially) and Tobbacco are
> "drugs" as are caffiene, chocolate, and TV, which cause people to do
strange
 >(not neccessarily harmful or dangerous) things can be just as bad as the
 >acts caused by currently illegal drugs...


Personally, I've never seen anyone on exctasy do anything to harm themselves
or others.  Same with pot. Alcohol has a tendency of making people violent
and irrational.  The other two do not.  Personally, I think alcohol is the
most dangerous drug around, simply because of its legalization.  A drunk
person can kill many.  A person on X can hug many   :)   and yet alcohol is
legal and X is outlawed.


rob "2 Beans for me" skipworth




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Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 02:26:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: _bjorkdoll <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (mobility) introduce myself   ?  uh ok..

On Sat, 12 Aug 2000, roy wilkie wrote:
> I first heard Moby at a 'rave' in the high desert north of LA.  Everybody
> kind of took notice when he came out, turned into hundreds of hoving glow
> sticks in the ampitheater.   He put on the best electronic live act I've
> ever seen, complete with visuals like a giant walking insect guy on stilts.
> Extremely high energy, great music.

ya know what... this sounds _very_ much like the stage show 'Rabbit in the
Moon' puts on.  are you sure it wasn't them?  Bunny (the "lead" guy of the
live performance) comes out in a black jacket and opens it up and he's
covered in those long multi-coloured glowsticks.  and the background video
features him outfitted in a fuzzy green outfit walking forward like an ape
with stilts on his hands and feet.

check out my pictures from the last time RITM was here and let me know if
it's at all familiar to what you saw:
http://www.gurlpages.com/bjorkdoll3/its_like_that2.html

[/sarah]


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Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 02:56:10 PDT
From: "roy wilkie" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (mobility) introduce myself ? uh ok..

they were way cheaper than that.  just a homemade costume out of
sheetrock-installer's stilts..    not sure if it was part of Moby's show or
just part of the rave.

RITM, damn I have heard about them hundreds of times but I've still never
caught them yet.   I hope they're still doing shows with costumes like that.


>From: _bjorkdoll <[e-mail]>
>Reply-To: [e-mail]
>To: ".~'*.into the blue.*'~." <[e-mail]>
>Subject: Re: (mobility) introduce myself   ?  uh ok..
>Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 02:26:18 -0700 (PDT)
>
>On Sat, 12 Aug 2000, roy wilkie wrote:
> > I first heard Moby at a 'rave' in the high desert north of LA.
>Everybody
> > kind of took notice when he came out, turned into hundreds of hoving
>glow
> > sticks in the ampitheater.   He put on the best electronic live act I've
> > ever seen, complete with visuals like a giant walking insect guy on
>stilts.
> > Extremely high energy, great music.
>
>ya know what... this sounds _very_ much like the stage show 'Rabbit in the
>Moon' puts on.  are you sure it wasn't them?  Bunny (the "lead" guy of the
>live performance) comes out in a black jacket and opens it up and he's
>covered in those long multi-coloured glowsticks.  and the background video
>features him outfitted in a fuzzy green outfit walking forward like an ape
>with stilts on his hands and feet.
>
>check out my pictures from the last time RITM was here and let me know if
>it's at all familiar to what you saw:
>http://www.gurlpages.com/bjorkdoll3/its_like_that2.html
>
>[/sarah]
>
>
>-------------
>To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [e-mail]
>with the line "unsubscribe mobility" in the body.

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Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 12:51:06 -0400
From: "Mike A7" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (mobility) prince/EU/astral

Paul Simpson <[e-mail]> wrote:
> Prince supports Napster? I thought he was against
> bootlegging n stuff!!

The news media, AS ALWAYS, have taken Prince's BRILLIANT essay on the music
industry, Napster and mp3 and changed it around.

Prince did not come out and say he is for or against Napster. He is taking
a middle ground. What he said was Napster is out there because the music
industry is basically full of shit and not giving TRUE music lovers what
they want so things like Napster is what the music industry gets for buying
off radio, MTV and only shoving people the music they have a ton of money
invested in.

Prince doesn't care for bootleggers, but he HATES the music industry and
many of the major labels tactics so I think he likes the idea of what
Napster is about.

Usually his posts on his web site are his typical mumbo jumbo, pseudo
religious babble but the essay on the music industry, Napster and mp3 is
absolutely the BEST thing I have seen any artist say or write on the
subject. It is as if I had written it as it is the same thing I always rail
about to friends.

If anyone is interested I can forward it here, it's kind of long but I
think most here would agree with what he is saying too. He is saying the
record companies could give a shit about how Napster affects artists. They
only are mad about Napster because it is money out of THEIR pockets.He also
hails Napster as an alternative to the record company programmed radio we
now have in this country and MTV as well, a chance for true music lovers to
have a choice what they listen to. He really lets the current state of
music have it, ripping into the "one good single pushed from
a crappy CD" state of today's here today gone tomorrow artists and teeny
artists.

Again, in my opinion and Prince's too, Napster and other things like it are
a response and a direct effect of the SHIT state of current commerical
music. The record companies only have themselves to blame. They created it.


And how glad I am to see another of my favorite artists, Moby, likes the
idea of mp3 too! This is the future of music and I'm glad the suits at the
major labels don't like it.
Fuck them.

MikeA























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End of mobility-digest V3 #290
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