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mobility-digest        Thursday, April 6 2000        Volume 03 : Number 158



Re: (mobility) suCK part 2
(mobility) Moby interview from miami
Re: (mobility) suCK
RE: (mobility) suCK
Re: (mobility) CK is poop.
Re: (mobility) another happy Moby question, from the kid who will never ever ...
(mobility) Moby's Impact

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 16:20:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brad Caviness <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (mobility) suCK part 2

- --- theShackofXaq <[e-mail]> wrote:
> i just feel sad that we've
> lost a popular figure to the machine, that's
> all.
>
i'll say, briefly, that my view point differs
slightly from your own. In your analogy, I think
it's more appropriate to say that Moby is using
the machine, rather than the other way around, to
make his music, and perhaps even hiw viewpoints,
an alternative to the Britney Spears and the Limp
Bizkits that are an abomination upon the charts
right now. Regardless of his popularity, Moby is
still Different. And I think it unlikely that a
ck ad shoot is likely to change that difference
about him.

As he himself has said in posts to the list,
making music is his life.... promoting it is his
job. his record company has been very generous to
him in the amount of financial and artistic
freedom they have afforded him in making Play,
and he is responding to that generosity by
promoting that work in ways that are available to
him.

In brief, will doing a ck ad make moby dumb down
his music? Probably not. But will shooting a ck
ad make a lot of dump people who breed far too
much (I whole heartedly agree with you on that
point) buy a few of his cds? Maybe. And then they
wouldn't be as dumb as they were before.

=====
Bradley S. Caviness, Bigwig
Bigwig Enterprises

"I've often wondered how someone could put a critique of music into words. And I've also wondered why there was no musical commentary on writing."
- - Dr. Peter Kreeft, author



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 19:45:18 -0400
From: "Eric M. Goldberg" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (mobility) Moby interview from miami

http://www.dancesite.com/news2.shtml

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 20:18:24 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (mobility) suCK

Wow- that was an amazing and passionate email in regards to Moby "selling
out" to CK.  I'd have to say that I also disagree with this action.  It's too
bad that someone who seems, as you said, to be the complete opposite of what
he's now being portrayed as, has decided to pose for this ad when he knows he
will be incredibly influential in a very negative way.  I personally am a
strong Christian and yes I do find this very offensive.  I understand that
wherever you go there will always be someone doing something offensive in
regards to your relgion but it just didn't seem like it would come from him.
Something about Moby that has bothered mefor a long time is that he
constantly points his finger at hypocritical Christians.  I think that sucks!
 I am Christian and yes I know there are tons of hypocrites involved in this
relgion...but honestly...who could ever say there aren't hypocrites involved
in anything???!!!  Moby tackles Christians when he easily could have attacked
Jewish people or political figures or whatever...The hypocritical Christians
are not the ideal picture of a Christian and Christians CANNOT be judged by
them!  Overall, this ad doesn't take away from the fact that Moby is an
incredibly talented human being who has contributed some amazing music to me
and the world...but it definitely makes me feel very disappointed in that he
would steep this low and undergo and complete reversal in character (whether
temporary or not).  So thanks for that addition- that was pretty awesome that
you pointed that out.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 09:15:17 +0900
From: "Stout, Theodore" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (mobility) suCK

Can someone tell me where Moby sold out again to CK?  I kind of don't
understand what is going on?  I live in Japan and I have not seen any of
these advertisements.

Theo

- --
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 20:43:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: Sara Kuppin <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (mobility) CK is poop.

I've actually enjoyed this conversation/argument/debate and I hope nobody
leaves the list or censors what they say.... I am just bowled over with
excitement that there are people out there (seems like some pretty young
people too) who can think critically, are well written and rather clever
most of the time.

Personally, I can see everyone's side- the need for fun and a sense of
humor as well as the significant influence big business and mass media have
over us- but none of us know Moby (though we'd all love to have him to
dinner!) or his strategies or motivations or whatever.  So at this point-
the only meaning his actions (CK ad) have are the ones we interpret-- which
is still interesting but again- we don't know what he thinks (maybe he'll
write to us someday and tell us- hint hint).

He does make beautiful and thoughtful music (I'd have to put Every time you
touch me as the song that makes me think happy.... then Feelin so real)
that's for sure.  I think the thing that attracts me most to his stuff is
the fact that it seems to encompass so much at once- it is beautiful, sad,
religious, serious, intelligent, pensive, and fun and lots of other stuff
all at once-- that is amazing and I don't find that it a lot of music, or
people for that matter.  Kind of like you guys who are into so many
different kinds of music (I can't say I like the BSB, Britany or anything
country though) -I see where you are coming from and maybe that is why
many of us are such fans.

One more thing- about the rumours.... I love gossip as much as the next
person but I don't think we should share stuff so malicious unless we are
positive its true and have the facts.  I'm naive over here like- no way....
a porno when it seems that is far from the case.

Sara K.

On Thu, 6 Apr 2000, Christopher Michael Bourke wrote:

>
>
> > we don't know moby. seriously. it hit me kind of hard
> > once too because everything is wrong really changed my
> > life. i love moby's essays and music with a passion.
>
> Investing your life in another person, state, institution, or likewise is
> tanamount to intellectual suicide.  Think for yourself.
>
> > from my friends who have actually worked with moby
> > and how he sent explicit uninvited emails to a
> > seventeen year old girl.
>
> And you put stock in unfounded rumors?  Isn't this a form of social
> injustice?
>
> > honestly he does seem a
> > little friendly with younger girls at concerts. and he
> > made a porn movie, i mean how much more degrading can
> > you get?
>
> First, porn is NOT necessarily degrading, second you are again wrong on your
> facts--Moby had a small role in a film CALLED "porno", it wasn't a porno.
> He was also in "Joe's Apartement" I guess that means he condones violence
> against talking cochroaches right?
>
> > ...personally when i saw the ck adds i
> > just thought it was shitty photography and a really
> > unimaginative way to picture such an interesting
> > person.  i think it's cool that the money went to
> > charity, but i agree that it sucks. i hate all those
> > companies. i think moby is making enough money off
> > play that he can afford to give his own money away not
> > dirty CK money...
>
> Who are you to dictate or judge what another person's standard of living
> should be?  First off, considering the cut that artists actually get in the
> industry, combined with the fact that production, promotion and such are so
> fucking high, AND given that PLay never actually broke the Billboard top
> 100, I would say that his own revenue is modest at best.  He works hard,
> what he earns is deserved, and neither you, the state, humanity, or any of
> his so-called-fans have the right to judge him for what he does or does not
> do with his life and personal finances.
>
> > and i hate how moby has become pop,
> > and he has because about half of the email titles hav
> > the word mtv in them and i just have to delete them
> > cause it makes me sick... ok.. i'm done...
>
> Ah, now we get down to the real motivation here, the sick, hypocritcal
> bullshit that everyone spouts when "their" favorite artist becomes popular.
> First off did you ever stop to think the REAL influence Moby has had?  I
> don't hold the general public, especially when it comes to pop-culture in
> high regard, but the fact that every once in a while they recognize a truly
> talented artist and enjoy the music that you (i've) enjoyed for years should
> be a cause of fucking celebration.  Instead you demonize everyone and the
> artist in particular for actually being recognized.  Sure, most likely given
> about 6 months, if this fleating facination with moby turns out to be a
> fad(like fatboy slim or the chemical brothers) then he will be safely in
> your pocket again--an object of admiration reaching only as far as your
> elitist bullshit mentality.  I for one hopes that he actually does influence
> an otherwise empty music industry.  I have enjoyed moby for at least 7
> years, been on this list almost since the beginning, nothing will change
> that.  I have NEVER agreed (at least with all) of his philosophical
> viewpoints, and probably never will.  THAT however has no bearing on weather
> he makes good music or not, neither does popularity.
>
>
> > > ...this ad goes against
> > > absolutely everything
> > > moby has talked and written about in his lengthy
> > > liner notes and in
> > > interviews, as well as some of his music.
>
> Could you site please, one example in which moby decries the fashion
> industry?  Or better yet, could you please explain how?
>
> > > calvin klein is possibly the most oppressive fashion
> > > machine in current
> > > operation. on a daily basis, it crushes the
> > > creativity of young
> > > children, making them think that by being part of
> > > the crowd, they will
>
> And where did you grow up?  When I was a kid, CK wasn't even an inkling in
> our minds and yet everyone had to have REEBOK pump shoes, or nike air
> jordans or some other bull shit, CK is certainly nothing new or unique.
> PEER PRESSURE and the fact that these items are consistently over-priced
> leading to status is what fuels the fashion industry.  It doesn't matter if
> I made a t-shirt out of cow manure, if I put a fashionable name on it and
> charged $50 for it, it would sell(at least until that fad wore out).  Simple
> fact, these companies DO NOT brainwash kids, these companies EXIST because
> of a demand for them, this demand is created and fueled by parents who don't
> put their foot down and peers who create status out of these items in order
> to fill a void(either lack of intelligence or other substantative
> qualities).
>
> > > moby is now a logo. i hate him for it.
>
> Then you'll be leaving this list soon and taking your conveluted,
> reactionary opinion with you?
>
> > > again, everything about this ad is 100% opposite to
> > > what we have come to
> > > think of as moby.
>
> More to the point, it has contradicted all of your preconceptions about
> Moby...
>
> > > first off, CK is notorious for its
> > > kiddy porn ads. the
>
> This is complete and utter bullshit, I remember this so called controversy;
> If you think those ads were porn, then you obviously have not ventured into
> the adult section of your neighborhood family video store.  Said ads could
> only be described as mild, if not asexual altogether.
>
> > > finally, and most unforgivable of all, is his pose....
> > > moby, who has never been a real friend of the church
> > > but always thanked
> > > christ in the liner notes of every one of his
> > > albums, has prostituted
> > > himself and christ out to a logo.
>
> The sanctity of images of christ as well as christ himself is a tendancy
> exclusive to the church and the faithful, as he has pointed out many times,
> Moby believes in the moral message of Jesus Christ, not his divinity or the
> sacred implications.  Why is this concept so hard for so many people?  I can
> believe in morality, but I don't have to believe in god, much less christ.
>
> Every once in a while this same topic will be brought up... "I heard a moby
> song in a car ad... I though moby was against cars!?!?!"  This really makes
> me sad, because 1, it means you haven't been paying attention, and 2, you
> invested your faith and morality in another, falable person, something you
> should NEVER do.
>
> Chris....
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 20:46:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: Sara Kuppin <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (mobility) another happy Moby question, from the kid who will never ever ...

Damn!  I'm speechless!

On Thu, 6 Apr 2000 [e-mail] wrote:

>     Hehe  it's Confession time!!  I've been a Moby fan for about 3 years now
> after i first heard the EIW remixes.  Since then i've collected lotsa other
> albums, singles etc.  During my 2nd year at college i introduced my best
> friend to Moby's music, and she instantly fell in love with it.  The second
> time we saw him perform was in a club w/the band.  The first was a dj set at
> a party.  We were completely satisfied with the show, being that we got in
> the front row and he reached out and grabbed each of our hands.  After the
> show was over we stayed at the club for about 20 minutes and danced to some
> stuff that the local dj's were spinning.  As we decided to leave we walked
> out of the club and saw Moby signing autographs and meeting fans.    We
> popped in there and as soon as he saw us he opened his arms and we took turns
> hugging him :)  The first words outta his mouth to my friend were * i really
> like your shirt.*  Well he signed our stuff and we all hugged s'more until he
> left to get on the bus.  My friend and i went and sat on the corner of the
> street, totally shocked. We didn't think the nite could get any better.  We
> sat there in awe in total silence for about 10 minutes.  Then he came back
> off of his bus some gurl jumped on him and started hugging him.  All the
> while he was hugging her he was staring at my friend who was about 20 feet
> away.  He let go of this girl and walked through all these fans and came back
> up to us.  He was VERY shy.  He had his hands in his pockets and was kinda
> lookin down at the ground then back up at my friend.  All of a sudden they
> locked eyes and just started hugging.  They both had these huge smiles on
> their faces!!  He asked us our names and all that stuff.  They gave each
> other a few pecks ( i can't remember if lips were involved though).  Then he
> started talking to me and i was all thankin him and stuff and i hugged him
> again we pecked each other on the cheek (which is something i do a lot).
> Then he grabbed my friends hands and they were just staring at each other for
> what seemed like forever!! She told him that she wanted to see him again, and
> he promised her that she would.  But the time soon came that he had to leave.
>  He walked away backwards from here and tripped and almost fell when he
> reached the curb.  hehe we all got a chuckle from that, then he was gone.
> And that's my story!  It most definitely goes down as *one of the best days
> of my life* chapters.  We sit and wonder sometimes if he remembers us sitting
> on that corner in Pittsburgh, it's doubtful that he does because he's
> constantly traveling and meeting new people.  We like to think he remembers
> though =)
>
> Garnet
>  IM KaNgGrrL
>  iCq 65573133
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 09:47:08 +0900
From: "Stout, Theodore" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (mobility) Moby's Impact

I have to agree with this e-mail.  Moby does indeed have an ability to bring
out the "beautiful, sad,
religious, serious, intelligent, pensive, and fun and lots of other stuff
all at once--" side of me.  For me the top songs are Hymn--This is my dream
mix,
Feeling so real, and Move Disco Retreat mix.

In all that he does he brings out that which is best in me.

Money is money but music is music.  Let's just enjoy it.  At least we have
it.

Theoh


I've actually enjoyed this conversation/argument/debate and I hope nobody
leaves the list or censors what they say.... I am just bowled over with
excitement that there are people out there (seems like some pretty young
people too) who can think critically, are well written and rather clever
most of the time.

Personally, I can see everyone's side- the need for fun and a sense of
humor as well as the significant influence big business and mass media have
over us- but none of us know Moby (though we'd all love to have him to
dinner!) or his strategies or motivations or whatever.  So at this point-
the only meaning his actions (CK ad) have are the ones we interpret-- which
is still interesting but again- we don't know what he thinks (maybe he'll
write to us someday and tell us- hint hint).

He does make beautiful and thoughtful music (I'd have to put Every time you
touch me as the song that makes me think happy.... then Feelin so real)
that's for sure.  I think the thing that attracts me most to his stuff is
the fact that it seems to encompass so much at once- it is beautiful, sad,
religious, serious, intelligent, pensive, and fun and lots of other stuff
all at once-- that is amazing and I don't find that it a lot of music, or
people for that matter.  Kind of like you guys who are into so many
different kinds of music (I can't say I like the BSB, Britany or anything
country though) -I see where you are coming from and maybe that is why
many of us are such fans.

One more thing- about the rumours.... I love gossip as much as the next
person but I don't think we should share stuff so malicious unless we are
positive its true and have the facts.  I'm naive over here like- no way....
a porno when it seems that is far from the case.

Sara K.

On Thu, 6 Apr 2000, Christopher Michael Bourke wrote:

>
>
> > we don't know moby. seriously. it hit me kind of hard
> > once too because everything is wrong really changed my
> > life. i love moby's essays and music with a passion.
>
> Investing your life in another person, state, institution, or likewise is
> tanamount to intellectual suicide.  Think for yourself.
>
> > from my friends who have actually worked with moby
> > and how he sent explicit uninvited emails to a
> > seventeen year old girl.
>
> And you put stock in unfounded rumors?  Isn't this a form of social
> injustice?
>
> > honestly he does seem a
> > little friendly with younger girls at concerts. and he
> > made a porn movie, i mean how much more degrading can
> > you get?
>
> First, porn is NOT necessarily degrading, second you are again wrong on
your
> facts--Moby had a small role in a film CALLED "porno", it wasn't a porno.
> He was also in "Joe's Apartement" I guess that means he condones violence
> against talking cochroaches right?
>
> > ...personally when i saw the ck adds i
> > just thought it was shitty photography and a really
> > unimaginative way to picture such an interesting
> > person.  i think it's cool that the money went to
> > charity, but i agree that it sucks. i hate all those
> > companies. i think moby is making enough money off
> > play that he can afford to give his own money away not
> > dirty CK money...
>
> Who are you to dictate or judge what another person's standard of living
> should be?  First off, considering the cut that artists actually get in
the
> industry, combined with the fact that production, promotion and such are
so
> fucking high, AND given that PLay never actually broke the Billboard top
> 100, I would say that his own revenue is modest at best.  He works hard,
> what he earns is deserved, and neither you, the state, humanity, or any of
> his so-called-fans have the right to judge him for what he does or does
not
> do with his life and personal finances.
>
> > and i hate how moby has become pop,
> > and he has because about half of the email titles hav
> > the word mtv in them and i just have to delete them
> > cause it makes me sick... ok.. i'm done...
>
> Ah, now we get down to the real motivation here, the sick, hypocritcal
> bullshit that everyone spouts when "their" favorite artist becomes
popular.
> First off did you ever stop to think the REAL influence Moby has had?  I
> don't hold the general public, especially when it comes to pop-culture in
> high regard, but the fact that every once in a while they recognize a
truly
> talented artist and enjoy the music that you (i've) enjoyed for years
should
> be a cause of fucking celebration.  Instead you demonize everyone and the
> artist in particular for actually being recognized.  Sure, most likely
given
> about 6 months, if this fleating facination with moby turns out to be a
> fad(like fatboy slim or the chemical brothers) then he will be safely in
> your pocket again--an object of admiration reaching only as far as your
> elitist bullshit mentality.  I for one hopes that he actually does
influence
> an otherwise empty music industry.  I have enjoyed moby for at least 7
> years, been on this list almost since the beginning, nothing will change
> that.  I have NEVER agreed (at least with all) of his philosophical
> viewpoints, and probably never will.  THAT however has no bearing on
weather
> he makes good music or not, neither does popularity.
>
>
> > > ...this ad goes against
> > > absolutely everything
> > > moby has talked and written about in his lengthy
> > > liner notes and in
> > > interviews, as well as some of his music.
>
> Could you site please, one example in which moby decries the fashion
> industry?  Or better yet, could you please explain how?
>
> > > calvin klein is possibly the most oppressive fashion
> > > machine in current
> > > operation. on a daily basis, it crushes the
> > > creativity of young
> > > children, making them think that by being part of
> > > the crowd, they will
>
> And where did you grow up?  When I was a kid, CK wasn't even an inkling in
> our minds and yet everyone had to have REEBOK pump shoes, or nike air
> jordans or some other bull shit, CK is certainly nothing new or unique.
> PEER PRESSURE and the fact that these items are consistently over-priced
> leading to status is what fuels the fashion industry.  It doesn't matter
if
> I made a t-shirt out of cow manure, if I put a fashionable name on it and
> charged $50 for it, it would sell(at least until that fad wore out).
Simple
> fact, these companies DO NOT brainwash kids, these companies EXIST because
> of a demand for them, this demand is created and fueled by parents who
don't
> put their foot down and peers who create status out of these items in
order
> to fill a void(either lack of intelligence or other substantative
> qualities).
>
> > > moby is now a logo. i hate him for it.
>
> Then you'll be leaving this list soon and taking your conveluted,
> reactionary opinion with you?
>
> > > again, everything about this ad is 100% opposite to
> > > what we have come to
> > > think of as moby.
>
> More to the point, it has contradicted all of your preconceptions about
> Moby...
>
> > > first off, CK is notorious for its
> > > kiddy porn ads. the
>
> This is complete and utter bullshit, I remember this so called
controversy;
> If you think those ads were porn, then you obviously have not ventured
into
> the adult section of your neighborhood family video store.  Said ads could
> only be described as mild, if not asexual altogether.
>
> > > finally, and most unforgivable of all, is his pose....
> > > moby, who has never been a real friend of the church
> > > but always thanked
> > > christ in the liner notes of every one of his
> > > albums, has prostituted
> > > himself and christ out to a logo.
>
> The sanctity of images of christ as well as christ himself is a tendancy
> exclusive to the church and the faithful, as he has pointed out many
times,
> Moby believes in the moral message of Jesus Christ, not his divinity or
the
> sacred implications.  Why is this concept so hard for so many people?  I
can
> believe in morality, but I don't have to believe in god, much less christ.
>
> Every once in a while this same topic will be brought up... "I heard a
moby
> song in a car ad... I though moby was against cars!?!?!"  This really
makes
> me sad, because 1, it means you haven't been paying attention, and 2, you
> invested your faith and morality in another, falable person, something you
> should NEVER do.
>
> Chris....
>
>
>


- --
This communication contains information which is confidential and
may also be privileged.  It is for the exclusive use of the
intended recipient(s).  If you are not the intended recipient(s),
please note that any distribution, copying or use of this
communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited.
If you have received this communication in error, please notify
the sender immediately and then destroy any copies of it.

------------------------------

End of mobility-digest V3 #158
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