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klr650-digest        Friday, October 22 1999        Volume 02 : Number 1055



Re: (klr650) RE: KLR Help! (oil change problems)
Re: (klr650) Postpartum Valve Check Inte
Re: (klr650) NKLR- Down Under
Re: (klr650) 1/2 Day So. CA ride?
Re: (klr650) KLR vs. XR650L: No contest!
Re: (klr650) KLR Help!! (oil change problems)
RE: (klr650) Postpartum Valve Check Interval

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 14:26:15 -0700
From: "Jeff & Lisa Walker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) RE: KLR Help! (oil change problems)

> No, the condensation stems from how the vehicle is operated. As a
> by-product of combustion, there is condensation. This is why inner-city
> cars MUST have their oil changed more often than a highway-driven car. If
> oil doesn't have a chance to reach normal operating temperature, the
> condensation doesn't burn off. This is why I suggest to anyone who has a
> vehicle that only sees in-town use to get on the highway and get the
engine
> hot, and the same philosophy also applies to exhaust systems. The exhaust
> needs to get hot enough to burn off the condensation. Also, in a car,
> less-than-operating-temperature oil also becomes acidic. So yes, you can
> subscribe to the 'my owners manual recommends oil changes at 7500 miles',
> but only if the car is used for more than 30 minutes at a time.
>
I agree with you completely, except the word you are looking for is
"evaporated", not "burned"

(Picky, picky!)

The acids that form in the crank case will do so even in the absence of
water vapors and condensation, but the carbonic acids that are in
condensation are stronger.

Have you ever seen a bunch of water dripping out of the tailpipe of the car
in front of you, even in summer?  The two largest products from combustion
are carbon dioxide and water.

Jeff


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 14:35:13 -0700
From: "Jeff & Lisa Walker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) Postpartum Valve Check Inte

>
> >>I'm sure this has come up before, but I'm still relatively new here. WHY
> shims? Screw-type adjusters are so much easier, and there's no replacement
> of anything, except for maybe the cam chain. Shims just seem to be such a
> pain in the ass. It isn't because it would increase the height of the
> cylinder, is it?<<
>
It has to do with the operating temperature range and the thermal expansion
of the materials used in the rocker assembly.  Air cooled engines obviously
have a larger operating range.  The clearances are generally set looser than
shimmed valve clearances.  With shims in a liquid cooled engine, you can use
tighter tolerances due to the more narrow operating temperature range, and
also shims are harder and wear less.  The main wear that occurs on both
types of heads is at the valve seat, and again, with the larger operating
temperature range of air cooled cylinders and heads, they need an easier
method of adjusting these clearances.

Jeff


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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 17:42:16 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: (klr650) NKLR- Down Under

In a message dated 10/22/99 3:06:24 PM Central Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<<  once trained with some Ausie SAS.  Very professional and cheerful
 chappies.  We were doing jungle training, and while us Americans were very
 worried about running into any of the  "two-steps" that we were briefed
 about (similar to the Panamanian Bushmaster, they are a variety of cobra I
 think.), the Aussies were all talking about going out and hunting for them,
 because they are "grand eats".  With those guys before and after the
 mission, it was drink until the early morning every night, and up for PT at
 0600 every day.  In the States, we'd think they were a bunch of alcoholics.
 To them it was normal.  An alcoholic to them isn't someone who drinks every
 day, but someone who can't function because they drink every day.  I could
 only handle about 3 or 4 pints of that excellent beer, no way in hell I
 could keep up with those guys.

 As far as soldiers go, I'd rate them right up there with the best of the
 best, right along the Gurkas, Fijians, and British SAS, who they are modeled
 after.

 Jeff
  >>
Ahhh...the "good old days!".......reminds me of my days in the Corps when I
partied with the Royal Marine Commandos (also some VERY good troops and
highly motivated!) while on a liberty stop in London.  They said they could
drink us "Yankee Leathernecks" under the table and I believe they could have
if we were drinking their warm ale, but we had iced down some good old
American Bud and they were all in "praising the porcelin goddess" early in
the evening!!  They were'nt used to COLD beer!!!

Steve
Dallas, TX  A14 "Grunt"
Semper Fi !

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 14:48:51 PDT
From: "Conall O'Brien" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) 1/2 Day So. CA ride?

I thought the imaginary dividing line between No. and So. Calif. was army
st. in San Francisco.

Conall
>From: "Drew" <[e-mail]>
>Reply-To: "Drew" <[e-mail]>
>To: "motolistKLR650" <[e-mail]>
>Subject: Re: (klr650) 1/2 Day So. CA ride?
>Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 17:05:39 -0700
>
>If you're including folks from SOCal, don't forget the San Franciscans!  :)
>
>Enjoy your ride.
>
>| Hi,
>|
>| This is for any riders who live in southern California (I guess Orange,
>LA,
>| San Bernadino counties - any further probably isn't worth it).  I am
>| interested in riding up "beautiful" Santiago Peak and was wondering if
>| anyone else is interested (especially someone who's done it before).  The
>| mountain is located in south Orange County (near Rancho Santa Margarita &
>| Silverado Canyon) and has a 4WD road the whole way up.  I understand that
>| waiting for you at the top is a very attractive patch of radio towers
>(oh,
>| and a pretty nice view).  I think this is a very short and easy ride and
>| therefore not worth traveling great distances to partake in.  With a
>couple
>| exceptions I'm open to any upcoming Saturday or Sunday.  Anyone who's
>| interested please e-mail me and we can set something up
>| ([e-mail]).  Thanks!
>|
>| Visit the KLR650 archives at
>| http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650
>| Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to [e-mail]
>| for info.
>|
>
>
>Visit the KLR650 archives at
>http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650
>Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to [e-mail]
>for info.

______________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 14:52:47 -0700
From: "Jeff & Lisa Walker" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) KLR vs. XR650L: No contest!

Um, perhaps I should give you my resume;

Been riding on the dirt since age 10, (I'm 30 now, and even rode for a short
time while in the Army Rangers).  My first bike was a RM125.

I've owned:
Suzuki RM125
Yamaha YZ250
Honda XL500S
Honda XL600R
Honda CR480
Kawasaki KZ1000LTD

and finally:  Kawasaki KLR650--A3.

I have a goodly amount of dirt experience, and have ridden the XL600 and the
newer XR650L.  Where I'm at in my riding, the suspension of the XR does make
a difference for me, as I have exceeded the capability of the KLR serveral
times.  I was buying a bike two years ago, after a brief hiatus from
motorcycling, and decided on the KLR due to my daily 100+ mile commute.  Now
that I'm living in Eastern Washington, and have nothing but desert and great
riding everywhere, I've found the limits of my bike.  It will improve once I
get my knobby tires, but the XR would definately do more for me over here in
my local riding.  Does this mean I'm going to sell my KLR?  No.  Instead, I
dream of affording a great enduro or open class bike for off road, like a
KTM or (drooling now) a KX500.

My A3 has the Kawa taller windshield, SU racks with coolers of my own
design, Fastline, Moose, Maier Woods Pro.  No question about its superiority
on the road.

I'm in school full time nowand have too many hobbies, so I can't afford as
many goodies as I'd like, but I'm pretty sure better tires would make me
happy.

Jeff
PS, I was responding to someone else

> Jeff Walker is considering a KLR and had a number of questions:
>
> Are you a beginning dirt rider?
>
> I was when I bought my 2000 KLR four months ago, and my also-beginner pal
> bought a new XR650L.
>
> (We're both advanced street riders with many years of experience.)
>
> We were told over and over that the XR was SO much better on the dirt, but
> the truth is at neither of these big bikes is good on the dirt for
> beginners, especially in tricky situations like switchbacks, mud, and
sand.
>
> If you want to get seriously into dirt riding, you're far better off with
a
> strictly-dirt machine, and a small one at that. The Honda XR400 is the
> biggest I'd go.
>
> BUT -- if you want to ride dirt roads and the occasional easy dual-sport,
> either the KRL or the XR650L will do. Interestingly, I've found the XR650L
> has no great advantage over the KLR in the dirt -- their weight is nearly
> equal and weight is the deciding factor here. Yes, the XR has
longer-gravel
> suspension, but unless you're an advanced rider you probably won't notice
> its advantage over the KLR's (especially if you use Progressive springs on
> the KLR's front end).
>
> On the road, there's no comparison. The KLR is FAR superior to the
XR650L --
> mainly because it's water cooled. On a freeway run between 80 and 90, my
> friend's XR's oil blackened ominously -- the bike was just running too
hot.
> Both bikes handle great in the twisties -- the KLR needs a steel-braded
> front brake line for better response.
>
> With the optional tall screen and some of Driveline's great racks and
> "cooler" bags, the KLR makes a fine, lightweight adventure tourer -- what
> the BMW GS always wanted to be but was too large to pull off. (I know, I
put
> 50,000 miles on an R1100GS.)
>
> My KLR has been jetted, K&N'd, and fitted with a Supertrapp exhaust,
greatly
> increasing power, improving the sound, at a light cost in tank range (now
> 220 instead of 250+). With a Corbin seat I can do 800-mile days, and my
> inexpensive Avon Gripsters give 7000 miles of high-grip range.
>
> The KRL is a blast on a twisty, bumpy road, capable of humbling many
> sportbikes. And if you adhere to its generous service intervals (6000
miles
> between oil changes) and go to a good dealer (Diablo Kawasaki here in the
> San Francisco East Bay are fantastic), you'll have a dead-nuts reliable,
> do-anything motorcycle.
>
> After 30+ years of riding all kinds of bikes, this is the best all-rounder
> I've ever owned.
>
> Whatever you decide, happy riding in the Great White North!
>
>



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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 14:59:04 PDT
From: "Conall O'Brien" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (klr650) KLR Help!! (oil change problems)

You state that you did not change the oil filter. Maybe the mixture of the
old oil contained in the filter, and the new oil resulted in some icky
looking stuff. Or maybe some weird interaction with the type of enviroment
the bike is kept in. Cold and humid possibly? I recall having the same
problem about 9 years ago with a KLR650, I was concerned as you are, but I
never found the problem. They haven't filmed any X-files near you have they?
Lot's of unexplained Marlboro butts laying around?

Conall

>From: "a phipps" <[e-mail]>
>Reply-To: "a phipps" <[e-mail]>
>To: [e-mail]
>Subject: (klr650) KLR  Help!!  (oil change problems)
>Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 19:00:01 MST
>
>I sent a request for help a couple weeks ago but my message got returned to
>me because of a hotmail problem.  Anyways, I have been getting my klr ready
>to store for the winter.  I decided to do some work to the bike myself (I
>hate to admit it but I have never even done an oil change myself before!).
>My first job was to change the coolant and make sure it is sufficiently
>strong for our harsh winter.  That actually went fairly smooth.  (Yes, I
>felt like a "real man").  I then attempted an oil change.  I didn't change
>the filter.  I drained the old oil out and put in SG quality 10W40
>Motomaster oil.  I filled to the top of the sight glass.  I then started
>the
>engine and let it run for a bit, then shut off the engine and checked the
>sight glass again.  As the oil came down to the sight glass I was surprised
>to see that it was a milky brown colour that I had never seen there before.
>After letting the bike sit for 10 minutes I checked it again and it
>appeared
>normal colour (not milky).  Then I ran the bike, shut it off and checked
>the
>sight glass again. Again, milky brown.  It also appeared to cling to the
>sight glass more that normal.  From reading the archives I know that milky
>oil is a sign of water in the oil.  I'm sure that I never got any water in
>there.  And I never noticed this milky colour before I did the oil change.
>The oil I drained out of the bike also looked fine.  I have since found out
>that there is special motorcycle oil that I could have bought.  The stuff I
>put in there is just regular auto oil.  Can anyone tell me what might be
>happening?  I'm the guy who had to get a new crank case at the end of the
>summer after my chain broke.  Any connection?  I'm pretty sure my coolant
>level was fine for my entire trip, although I didn't check it after I had
>the crank case replaced.  Could the fact that I have auto oil in there be
>the problem?   My plan for this weekend is to change the oil again (and put
>in motorcycle oil) and change the filter.  I've also marked the coolant
>level with a felt pen to see if I'm losing coolant.  I haven't ridden the
>bike since I did the oil change.  I'd appreciate any advice.
>
>By the way, I've had to subscribe to the list using my hotmail account now.
>There is a ban on email lists at work now because email was causing our
>server to crash.  I haven't been able to access my work email account for
>some time so I am totally out of touch with what is going on with the list.
>If anyone has sent me email during the last month or so, I wouldn't have
>been able to receive it because of the server problems.
>
>Also, if any of you are interested in a rare 92 VW Passat Syncro (all wheel
>drive) with a G60 (superchaged) engine, let me know.  I'm trying to sell
>the
>car so I can buy a truck.
>
>Al
>A10
>Fort St. John, BC
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
>Visit the KLR650 archives at
>http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650
>Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to [e-mail]
>for info.
>

______________________________________________________
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Visit the KLR650 archives at
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Subscribe to Dual Sport News...write to [e-mail]
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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 14:54:46 -0700
From: Richard Ohnstad <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: (klr650) Postpartum Valve Check Interval

Just for the record:

The Honda Service Manual (86 VFR750F) calls for an inspection of the =
valves every 8000 miles.  The Kawasaki Motorcycle Service Manual =
Supplement (A7) calls for an inspection of the valves every 5000km =
(about 3000 miles).  So the "twice as often" statement seems to apply to =
the Kawasaki.

Richard in Tucson
'94 KLR650
'86 VFR750



> >Bob, I checked mine at 500, 1500, 3000, and 6,000. It needed =
adjustment
> >at each interval...
>
> I'm sure this has come up before, but I'm still relatively new here. =
WHY
> shims? Screw-type adjusters are so much easier, and there's no =
replacement
> of anything, except for maybe the cam chain. Shims just seem to be =
such a
> pain in the ass. It isn't because it would increase the height of the
> cylinder, is it?
>
Its a matter of tolerance and hardness, as well as the height of the =
head in
the frame.  Shim adjusters can go for longer intervals before adjustment
because of a few reasons, the geometry is simpler for one, an the =
clearances
can be smaller, (a tighter valve train) therefore providing more
performance.  Most importantly though, both the surfaces of the cam =
lobes
and the valve shims have been both heat tempered and work hardened, =
which
amounts to a very hard surface that wears very little.

Sure, adjusting the valves on the Honda RFVC heads is very easy, but =
then it
has to be done twice as often.

Jeff





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------------------------------

End of klr650-digest V2 #1055
*****************************