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From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest)
To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #870
Reply-To: hist_text
Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
hist_text-digest Monday, October 1 2001 Volume 01 : Number 870
In this issue:
-áááááá MtMan-List: e-mail test
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: e-mail test
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: e-mail test
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: e-mail test
-áááááá MtMan-List: Test Question
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Test Question
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Test Question
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Bark Canoe's
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Test Question
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Test Question
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Test Question
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Test Question
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Test Question
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Test Question
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Test Question
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Test Question
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Test Question
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Test Question
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Test Question
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Bark Canoe's
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Test Question
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Test Question
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Test Question
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Bark Canoe's
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Test Question
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Bark Canoe's
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Test Question
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Test Question
-áááááá Re: MtMan-List: Bark Canoe's
-áááááá MtMan-List: Horses & Gunfire
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 22:02:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ronald Schrotter <mail4dog@yahoo.com>
Subject: MtMan-List: e-mail test
Where the Hell is my e-mail!
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Listen to your Yahoo! Mail messages from any phone.
http://phone.yahoo.com
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 02:12:12 EDT
From: Bublitz@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: e-mail test
- --part1_114.543629a.28e6c03c_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Ron, I think things are just a tad slow lately. hardtack
- --part1_114.543629a.28e6c03c_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>Ron, I think things are just a tad slow lately. hardtack</FONT></HTML>
- --part1_114.543629a.28e6c03c_boundary--
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 06:39:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ronald Schrotter <mail4dog@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: e-mail test
Hardtack, Thanks for the reply. I had received no
e-mail from any source for several days on this
address. Thought maybe something was wrong on my end.
Appreciate your response. DOG
- --- Bublitz@aol.com wrote:
> Ron, I think things are just a tad slow lately.
> hardtack
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Listen to your Yahoo! Mail messages from any phone.
http://phone.yahoo.com
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 13:29:48 -0700
From: "rtlahti" <rtlahti@msn.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: e-mail test
Right the Hell Here! <G>
Capt. Lahti'
"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway."
John Wayne
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Ronald Schrotter <mail4dog@yahoo.com>
To: hist list <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
Sent: Friday, September 28, 2001 10:02 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: e-mail test
> Where the Hell is my e-mail!
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Listen to your Yahoo! Mail messages from any phone.
> http://phone.yahoo.com
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 12:00:02 EDT
From: SWcushing@aol.com
Subject: MtMan-List: Test Question
Good morning boy and girls,
The question for the day is: Can anyone tell me what a "surtout" is? The only
hint I'll offer is, Donald McKenzie had one....
Ymos,
Magpie
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 12:37:35 EDT
From: LivingInThePast@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Test Question
Sirtout: a man's coat to be worn outside his other garments... that close?
Barney
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 12:39:02 EDT
From: LivingInThePast@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Test Question
oops, sorry for the misspelling; was typing in the darkness of day LOL.
Surtout: a man's coat to be worn outside his other garments... that close?
Barney
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hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 12:44:18 EDT
From: SWcushing@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Bark Canoe's
Hallo the List,
Last year or so, there was a discussion of whether or not there were bark
canoes west of the Cascades, or even west of the Rockies, and in particular,
on the Columbia River.
The consensus was that there is no proof....
In the book "Siskiyou Trail", Alex Ross, (an Astorian who switched to the NW
Company shortly after McDougall betrayed Astor) is cited as saying..." he
could not convince his new superiors that the sawed or split cedar boats of
the Astorians were better on the broad Columbia than the traditional birch
rind canoes which the Nor'westers brought from Athabaska."
So..... it would appear, at least in 1813, there were bark canoe's west of
the Cascades, and because NW Co. had Spokane House in what is now Washington
State, I would think bark canoes would be somewhat common there too....
Don't gotta make a dug out, or bateau now.....<G>
Ymos,
Magpie
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 12:48:59 EDT
From: SWcushing@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Test Question
In a message dated 9/30/01 9:39:37 AM, LivingInThePast@aol.com writes:
<< Surtout: a man's coat to be worn outside his other garments... that close?
Barney
>>
Pretty close Barney..... but what was it used for? Or, better still, what was
McKenzie's made of, and used for?
Magpie
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 11:50:11 -0500
From: Victoria Pate <vapate@juno.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Test Question
Hey Magpie,
The word "surtout" is not in my Noah Webster 1828 dictionary
of the English language.
Please don't keep us dangling. <G>
Victoria
On Sun, 30 Sep 2001 12:00:02 EDT SWcushing@aol.com writes:
> Good morning boy and girls,
>
> The question for the day is: Can anyone tell me what a "surtout" is?
> The only
> hint I'll offer is, Donald McKenzie had one....
>
> Ymos,
> Magpie
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info:
> http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 12:55:05 EDT
From: LivingInThePast@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Test Question
Victoria, It IS in the online version... here's the link <A
HREF="http://www.christiantech.com/">Websters 1828</A>. Barney
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 13:00:19 EDT
From: SWcushing@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Test Question
In a message dated 9/30/01 9:51:27 AM, vapate@juno.com writes:
<< Please don't keep us dangling. <G>
Victoria
>>
Just for you,Victoria...
McKenzie was....."an impressive figure in his elkskin surtout, a sort of
arrowproof armor along the lines of the leather cuirasses (huh?) worn earlier
by Califonia's soldadoes de cuero."
Never heard of such a thing either....<G>
Ymos,
Magpie
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 13:01:19 EDT
From: SWcushing@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Test Question
In a message dated 9/30/01 9:56:07 AM, LivingInThePast@aol.com writes:
<< Victoria, It IS in the online version... here's the link Websters 1828.
Barney
>>
Hey......this isn't an OPEN BOOK TEST!
Magpie
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hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 12:08:03 -0500
From: Victoria Pate <vapate@juno.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Test Question
I found the word "surcoat" in Webster's 1828 dictionary.
Surcoat, n. [Fr. SUR and Eng. COAT.] A short coat worn
over the other clothes.
Victoria
On Sun, 30 Sep 2001 12:39:02 EDT LivingInThePast@aol.com writes:
> oops, sorry for the misspelling; was typing in the darkness of day
> LOL.
>
> Surtout: a man's coat to be worn outside his other garments... that
> close?
> Barney
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info:
> http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 13:13:53 EDT
From: LivingInThePast@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Test Question
Sorry about that Magpie, but with these senior moments coming so much more
often, the printed word is what I got <GGG>
Only thing I can find is "de cuero" = Leather Goods
Here's a link I have found very useful.. <A
HREF="http://dictionaries.travlang.com/">Translating Dictionaries</A>
Barn
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 13:19:50 EDT
From: LivingInThePast@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Test Question
Soldado = Soldierm so it would be Soldier of Leather. Can't find anything
for cuirasses.
Heres another (IMO) very useful link
<A HREF="http://babelfish.altavista.com/tr">AltaVista - World - BabelFish
Translation</A>
Barn
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hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 12:22:35 -0500
From: Victoria Pate <vapate@juno.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Test Question
>
> Just for you,Victoria...
Thanks, Magpie.
>
> McKenzie was....."an impressive figure in his elkskin
surtout,
There is an obvious difference in the spelling of
the word in the description and the dictionary
spelling, but I think we all get the point. <G>
a
> sort of arrowproof armor along the lines of the leather cuirasses
(huh?)
> worn earlier by Califonia's soldadoes de cuero."
> Never heard of such a thing either....<G>
I thought everybody knew what a cuirass is. <G>
It is a breast-plate, made of iron plate and covers the
body from neck to waist area.
Victoria
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info:
> http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 13:51:02 EDT
From: LivingInThePast@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Test Question
Victoria, Not sure which version of the 1828 you are using, but online I
entered it and it came back 'surtout' just as Magpie spelled it. I know some
list members have the CD-Rom version; if you are one of those, maybe there is
an update available with new additions, revisions, etc. Please forgive me
if this seems contrary; just trying to be helpful. Barn
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 13:09:35 -0500
From: Victoria Pate <vapate@juno.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Test Question
On Sun, 30 Sep 2001 13:51:02 EDT LivingInThePast@aol.com writes:
> Victoria, Not sure which version of the 1828 you are using, but
> online I entered it and it came back 'surtout' just as Magpie spelled
it. I
> know some list members have the CD-Rom version; if you are one of
those, maybe
> there is an update available with new additions, revisions, etc.
Please forgive me
> if this seems contrary; just trying to be helpful. Barn
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info:
> http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 11:31:35 -0700
From: "rtlahti" <rtlahti@msn.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Bark Canoe's
Magpie,
Glad you got to hear some bulging this weekend. I think we got a fair chance
of getting our pantaloons bloody.
As to your bark canoes, Rick Lindsey provided me with a copy of a several
page paper he had put together which discusses the bark canoes used by the
Indians of the upper Columbia/BC/Coeur de Alene area. They weren't birch but
used other peel-able barks (can't remember what brand at the moment but it
was something like elm). The design varied a bit from the classic "birch
bark" shape of the general Great Lakes area (back east) in that the bow and
stern were pointed at the bottom and came straight back at quite an angel
not unlike the ends of my bateau would look if upside down. They were quite
roomy and came to take on a bit of "rocker" after some use from the weigh of
the passengers and cargo.
They were reported to have been used to ferry across the Columbia at places
like Kettle Falls, etc. Keep pestering me and I'll try to find the paper and
share it with you this next weekend.
YMOS
Capt. Lahti'
"They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary
safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- BENJAMIN FRANKLIN
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 14:28:29 -0400
From: manbear <manbear@netonecom.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Test Question
Cuirass - (kwi-ras) or Queer-ass for those of us who ar phonetically
challenged. It is the leather breast and back armor worn by Roman Soldiers. If
you saw "Gladiator" you saw plenty of cuirasses.
Manbear
SWcushing@aol.com wrote:
leather cuirasses (huh?)
- ----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 11:36:22 -0700
From: "rtlahti" <rtlahti@msn.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Test Question
> Pretty close Barney..... but what was it used for? Or, better still, what
was
> McKenzie's made of, and used for?
Magpie,
I always thougth it was a funny name for an overcoat. Probably made of wool
finished smooth rather than with a lot of knap but there must have been lots
of materials used depending on the price. And I am under the impression that
such outer coats were were commonly worn over normal dress which would have
consisted of the leg wear, shirt, vest or weskit and coat. The Surtout goes
over all that just as a Great Coat would.
Capt. Lahti'
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 13:36:06 -0500
From: Victoria Pate <vapate@juno.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Test Question
Sorry for the last post. I had a senior moment and I'm
not a senior! So that's what it is like. <G>
On Sun, 30 Sep 2001 13:51:02 EDT LivingInThePast@aol.com writes:
> Victoria, Not sure which version of the 1828 you are using, but
> online I entered it and it came back 'surtout' just as Magpie spelled
it. I
> know some list members have the CD-Rom version; if you are one
> of those, maybe there is an update available with new additions,
>revisions, etc.
I've had my 1828 for almost 20 years. I don't have the CD-Rom
version simply because I haven't been willing to forgo the
pleasure of handling one of my most treasured books.
Looks like I'll have to update so I can stay up with this list.
<G>
>Please forgive me if this seems contrary;
You contrary?? Never. Magpie is a
different story. <G>
> just trying to be helpful.
As always.
Victoria
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info:
> http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 12:46:02 -0600
From: "Gene Hickman" <ghickman9@home.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Bark Canoe's
If Magpie can hear himself bulging I'm sure that he will get his pantaloons
bloody.
Bead Shooter AKA Ghosting Wolf
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "rtlahti" <rtlahti@msn.com>
To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Bark Canoe's
> Magpie,
>
> Glad you got to hear some bulging this weekend. I think we got a fair
chance
> of getting our pantaloons bloody.>>
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 11:49:19 -0700
From: "rtlahti" <rtlahti@msn.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Test Question
> Soldado = Soldierm so it would be Soldier of Leather. Can't find anything
> for cuirasses.
"cuirasses"
As the author described it, I see a very nicely fitted and appointed long
leather coat, split up the back for horse ridding and the skirts long enough
to protect the legs from briars and brambles (cactus). They had fancy
applique work done with contrasting colored cloth peeking out of "cutouts"
(kinda like those "heart bags" that have a cut out of a heart or two on the
flap with red cloth sewn in behind). Some serrated edges on the leather
seams would be appropriate and some silver buttons, etc. Very fancy. And
very SW/Old Mexico look to them.
YMOS
Capt. Lahti'
"They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary
safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- BENJAMIN FRANKLIN
- ----- Original Message -----
From: <LivingInThePast@aol.com>
To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2001 10:19 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Test Question
> Soldado = Soldierm so it would be Soldier of Leather. Can't find anything
> for cuirasses.
>
> Heres another (IMO) very useful link
>
> <A HREF="http://babelfish.altavista.com/tr">AltaVista - World - BabelFish
> Translation</A>
>
> Barn
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 12:01:06 -0700
From: "rtlahti" <rtlahti@msn.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Bark Canoe's
It's that oft mentioned "senior moment" working here. Had a hell of a
session with spell check and still got it wrong! But then maybe I
didn't.............
Capt. L
"They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary
safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- BENJAMIN FRANKLIN
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Gene Hickman <ghickman9@home.com>
To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2001 11:46 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Bark Canoe's
> If Magpie can hear himself bulging I'm sure that he will get his
pantaloons
> bloody.
>
> Bead Shooter AKA Ghosting Wolf
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "rtlahti" <rtlahti@msn.com>
> To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Bark Canoe's
>
>
> > Magpie,
> >
> > Glad you got to hear some bulging this weekend. I think we got a fair
> chance
> > of getting our pantaloons bloody.>>
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 15:25:49 EDT
From: ThisOldFox@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Test Question
> Cuirass - (kwi-ras) or Queer-ass for those of us who ar phonetically
> challenged.
If you walk around with your surtout, chances are it's because you have
nothing to cover your cuirass. That's why trade shirts were knee length. <G>
Dave Kanger
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 14:09:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris Sega <chrissega1@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Test Question
I've also run across mention of cuir bouli (sp) boiled
leather. Ive boiled a scrap in water and neats foot,
shrunk like you wouldnt beleive, but came out hard and
tough, and would definately stop a blade.
- --- manbear <manbear@netonecom.net> wrote:
> Cuirass - (kwi-ras) or Queer-ass for those of us who
> ar phonetically
> challenged. It is the leather breast and back armor
> worn by Roman Soldiers. If
> you saw "Gladiator" you saw plenty of cuirasses.
> Manbear
>
> SWcushing@aol.com wrote:
>
> leather cuirasses (huh?)
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info:
http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Listen to your Yahoo! Mail messages from any phone.
http://phone.yahoo.com
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 16:20:43 -0500
From: Lee Newbill <bluethistle@potlatch.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Bark Canoe's
<html><head></head><body>Greetings...<br>
<br>
There are two instances that I can recall that discuss bark canoes this side
of the Rockies, excluding the odd looking watercraft of the upper Kutenai
tribe. <br>
<br>
The first was a reference to a shipment from Quebec to Fort George of bark
for canoes in the early days of the NWCo (around 1814 or so... I'll have
to go back and check). The second, was a refeerence to one of Sir Alexander
McKenzie's trips out of Lake Athabasca (1792-93), where he packed a disasembled
canoe over one of the northern passes, and then rode it down the Fraser River.<br>
<br>
From an obscure work published in 1934 by Jean C. Nielsen <br>
<br>
"Ship after ship rounded Cape Horn in regular succession bringing to the
Columbia, bulky cargoes of supplies and articles, all of which was to no
avail in bringing about the rich harvest of furs for which they had been
sent. As an example of the partners' extravagance it is said that they ordered
a supply of Canadian birch bark for canoes, merely because they preferred
this kind to that found on the Columbia."<br>
<br>
If Mr. Nielsen is correct, it would seem there were canoes on the Columbia, if in limited quantities.<br>
<br>
Regards... <br>
<br>
Lee Newbill of Idaho<br>
<br>
<br>
</body></html>
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2001 08:56:19 -0500
From: Lee Newbill <bluethistle@potlatch.com>
Subject: MtMan-List: Horses & Gunfire
<html><head></head><body>Hallo all....<br>
<br>
Just an update on the training of horses to stand for shots....... been working
with 'em regularly since my last post. Today, I was able to fire a shot
from about 30' away. The big gelding still snorts and flinches, but they
all stood for it. <br>
<br>
Appreciate the advice from all who contributed.<br>
<br>
Now I gots to go clean me rifle.<br>
<br>
Cheers from Idaho<br>
<br>
Lee<br>
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